Finally someone mentioned the double standards
@Dickwad, although there are more against women, I feel like there is still a large number of double standards against men too. Upvote for you
@Dickwad, Jeeze don't be such misogynist scum, god your comment is so oppressive you sh!tlord. (Ps. I completely agree I just really hate "feminism" if that's what you want to call it these days)
@Dickwad, As a female, I'm just not a little b!tch about it.*in Ice Cubes angry black officer voice in 21 Jump Street* I'm me so suck a d!ck.
@NotA90kid, you have a very false idea of what feminism is
@Prof Pancake, It's the group that's deluded it that I hate, if you believe in being equal more power too you, I'm all for it. But the word alone "feminism" is wrong! If you want equal rights name is equalism or something less one sided.
I'm a female and I approve this message. ^_^
I'm a dude, and I envy that guy's body because I know I'd stop after the first two sit ups
"Lovning" that's not a word.
First off, I have heard men complain of this too so let's not throw double standards around. Second, maybe we're not complaining about the media use of photo shop and stuff but rather that a size 16, or 10 or even 8, woman is considered plus size. When in reality those are pretty average sized. So, there's that rant. Though I do agree that self love is the key to all, but in this world it's very hard to love yourself when everyone else says something is wrong, that goes for men and women.
@DuelaDent, wow, perfectly said
@Suck a bag of dicks, thank you. Your name gave me a start when I got my notification.
I'm feeling a controversy coming on
@Thirsty Old Man, I don't think so. It's a valid point to make. If someone doesn't agree, oh well. They can say why, or act like an immature child in regards to the situation.
@anxiousPorcupine , well it's only valid to a fault. It's not pushed on men nearly as hard as it is onto women.
@Thirsty Old Man, I don't think it's pushed onto us women as much as tumblr feminists like to think
@Thirsty Old Man, It's not pushed on women either.
@Thegirlfriendsshirt, oh god no, nowhere near, and they're hardly feminists. The whole thing that is true feminism is really just equalism. Or it's supposed to be
@CriTiKa1, not in the traditional sense by any means. It's heftily there however. Just think of how many more ads and such have ridiculously attractive women on it. It's not a massive thing these days and it's very over said and overdone but it's there regardless.
@Thirsty Old Man, And think about all the ridiculously attractive men in commercials. Every underwear ad has half a dozen guys that are ripped. The people on those ads are proud of their bodies and are being paid to show it off. I know that if I was ripped and someone wanted to pay me to just stand around shirtless, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
@CriTiKa1, There are far fewer dealing with men. I'm speaking from the perspective of a 19 year old white male college student who has taken a few classes dealing with these controversies. People who have heavily studied and researched these things. A few without the bias of expecting to see it for women any more than men. All that I'm saying is that it's there, heavier for women than for men. Perhaps not by much, but it is there regardless.
@Thirsty Old Man, yes, a can of worms has definately been opened, indeed.
@Thirsty Old Man, one of the main reasons for this is that studies have shown that in most advertisements and using sex sells approaches, men tend to prefer to look at women, and women tend to prefer to look at women as well.
@Thirsty Old Man, we better tell the waiter.
@Thirsty Old Man, oh look, a 19 year old college kid who knows it all because he took a few classes that were created and taught by bleeding heart liberals.
@Captain Cockmonster, I highly doubt that psychology, sociology, criminology, and simple English 1101 were created by "bleeding heart liberals." And just as well. All I was stating is what I know, with what facts I have. Not much more. View it how you wish. You certainly have the freedom too. But my aim was only to enlighten, not to attack people's core beliegs
@Thirsty Old Man, beliefs
@Thirsty Old Man, didn't know advertising had anything to do with criminology or "English 1101". You were regurgitating what you heard in class, good for you.
@Captain Cockmonster, no in criminology we went over facts regarding sexist scandals and crime dealing with such. In English 1101 we went over many advertisements and wrote about them and did essays. You could call the teacher of that class a bleeding heart liberal if you wish. Not vomiting what I heard. Vomiting facts and hard backed opinion if you wish.
@Thirsty Old Man, sexism happens to both sides, it isn't exclusive to women. You probably buy into the gender based wage gap too.
@Captain Cockmonster, I never once said sexism was one sided. And there is a pay gap..for multitudes of reasons and isn't always due to just gender base.
@Thirsty Old Man, the pay gap is completely unproven. The only way it could be accurately measured is by taking two workers who are exactly the same in every single facet minus gender. That includes education, experience, responsibility on the job, employees working under them and so on and so forth.
@Captain Cockmonster, but women are payed 78% of what men are, that's just the gap. Much goes into why. It's jobs and education and everything that you said really. I can agree with that. But not that the gap isn't there. There's a wage gap. Just no certainty on wether just being a female has any true hold on it or not.
@Thirsty Old Man, Holy crap man. You are amazing. Being completely calm in an Internet debate is a hard feat to pull off. You were very matter of fact and didn't take any harshness towards his argument. Bravo for putting your opinion out there and not being outwardly annoyed when someone disagrees. The world needs more people like you.
I know there are words, but I can't be bothered to read them just yet.
Damn it. Why are they taking my photo again.
Yes, men do have impossible standards to live up to. However, it doesn't control a man's everyday life. Women are judged based on how they look in every sector of life. For men it's more likely to be just in the dating sector. As a woman, I know that if I am not pretty then I will be judged on that and people will say I need to provide a better image for myself before they can take me seriously. And if I'm too pretty then people still won't take me seriously. That's why women "whine" about this so much.
@Mad4Power, you realize that better looking men make more money and are promoted more and so on.
@Mad4Power, Same goes for men bruh.
@Bellith, I do but an ugly man is still more likely to get a job than an ugly woman. Any sociology book that discusses sexism will tell you so. Yes, everyone is judged on their looks, but women are more harshly judged than men in most cases.
@Mad4Power, I think there is a difference yes but not as big of one as you, or others, believe.
@CriTiKa1, did I not say this? I said this. Men have it hard with looks. Example: to be tall. However, what I simply said was is that women are typically judged harsher than men in more sectors of life. I've never heard a someone not taking a man seriously because he was too handsome (that's one example). Maybe it happens at times, but not nearly as often as women. Read a sociology textbook on sexism. It's surprising how much we miss in everyday life. Also I'm sick of this "it's bad to be a feminist" bullsh*t. Feminists fight for everyone. We want men and women to be treated assignment equal. So men can be emotional and work as a nurse and women can be strong and be a business woman without getting called derogatory names. There are crazy feminists, but there are crazy people from every group that give that group a bad name. I don't mean to rant at you. This just needed to be said.
@Bellith, it doesn't matter how big the difference is. There's a difference. Doesn't that seem problematic to you? I'll give you another example. I'm in speech. I compete in the category discussion (for those of you who don't know what that is it is similar to debate, but instead of going against your opponent you work with them). I'm a strong woman and am good in this category. It's a very male populated category. If a man and I compete in the same manner then to my opponents he is a good discussant, but I'm a bitch. Now this doesn't have to do with looks. This is just clearly about sexism in general, but doesn't that seem wrong to you? That's what women face everyday when they step out of the gender norm. Looks is just another part of that. I think men need help to. There are things that affect men such as look standards. I think those things need to be changed too. However, men still have it better. So feminists try to decrease that gap. Even if you just think it's a small one.
@Bellith, once we decrease the gap then we can work on making things better for everyone.
@Mad4Power, I disagree with some of what you said that's fine and you are entitled to your opinion
@Bellith, that's OK. You are allowed to have yours too. I just like to explain my side.
@Mad4Power, my side of it is. That yes there are job payment issues and stuff that needs to be handled. However things such as what this pic is. Dealing with is not something most men do its more women putting standards on women or women putting standards on themselves. And therefore is not a feminist issue.
@Bellith, I agree, but disagree. Women do put a ton of pressure on themselves. However, it's not just them. Men, society, and history have put a ton of pressure on women to look "perfect". They may not mean to, but it is something that has been placed in all of our heads for a very long time. Men don't (and often are not) have to be the cause of an issue for it to be a feminist issue. It's just something that needs to change for women (and for men). That's why it is in issue. The case I was just trying to make was that it's less of an issue for men (although still an issue). So that's why you hear women complain about it more. Beauty standards just simply affect women (typically) more than men.
@Mad4Power, i'll see but that sentence right there "they don't mean to" means your putting it on yourself by making assumptions.
@Bellith, ah* not I'll. I used seri to type that.
@Mad4Power, quick question. Were your genitals sliced up when you were a baby?
@Bellith, no. What I ways saying is that sometimes they do it subconsciously due to a historical and societal impact.
@Mad4Power, whoops didn't send correctly, anyways what I meant to say is men and women will never be equal it's nature, we can try and change it but it won't work. We are designed to different things. So stop complaining and realize that it's impossible to change what happens.
@ReeseBobby, no, but as I have said numerous times now. I'm not attacking men. I'm not saying image is not a problem for men because it is. All I'm saying is that I believe/statistics show (read a sociology textbook) that it is a bigger problem for women.
@diglet, there are cultures in which men do the more "feminine" jobs and act more "feminine" and where women act more "masculine" in both jobs and attitude. Also there are cultures where either the all the people are feminine, masculine, or both. It's not nature.
@ReeseBobby, What the hell?
@Bellith, Applaud to both of you for having an adult conversation about this.
@Mad4Power, Applaud to both of you for having an adult conversation about this
@SimonPetrikov, thank you.
@Bellith, if a woman is a news anchor, or a presidential candidate or a CEO, the first thing the public sees is her appearance. From square one the focus is on her attire, her hair cut, her make up. It's a fact that I've seen over and over again. While I don't like Hillary Clinton, I think it's far more important what comes out of her mouth than what she decided to wear, however there are always comments made about her "ugly pantsuit" yet no one mentions what her male counterparts outfit. That's a problem. I can make a world changing discovery and someone will still judge me on my appearance. "Good thing she's smart because she sure isn't pretty"
@Bellith, wouldn't it be better to fight for equal rights for both groups at the same time rather than rights for one group to help close a gap?
@Pestilence , also this goes for everyone, it's pretty possible to get model like looks, it just takes a lot of effort (minus the whole photoshop thing, I just want people to know that a sh*tload of work goes into looking good, and most people are just to lazy to do it. Models worked hard to look like they do.)
@Pestilence , I no it's possible I actual was a model for 2 years, not this ripped through. Just annoyed at hypocrisy
@Bellith, that makes your comment below about your picture even better lol
@Mad4Power, I realized that I commented at the wrong person, please read what I wrote to Belith (the first one) woops
@Pestilence , in a way Yes, but also no. It's a more attainable goal to get women and men to be treated as equals. Obviously getting both genders treated the way they should is a long term goal, but not necessarily possible in the short term. Also, if we got women brought you to the same level as men, then it'd be more likely that they could work together to treat each other properly. Lastly, if we tried to get both genders treated perfectly it might work for the men and not the women (or vice versa) and the current gap or a new gap could become bigger.
@Mad4Power, valid points, and that last one was especially good, I hadn't thought of that. Usually I'm a huge believer in "Focus on changing something small first, baby steps to the big goal" but it's going to be insanely hard to convince men to fight for a equality cause when men aren't getting equality for themselves. Lastly fighting for only one gender at a time is a slippery slope, and that worries a lot of people.
@Pestilence , Oh and as for model-like bodies... that's not necessarily attainable for everyone. Some people just aren't built like models. For example not everyone can be model height and not everyone can have a waist that small. I personally think everyone should push for healthy, but I also have no control over that. Also what we perceive as the beauty standard is photoshopped and in most cases unattainable. Although people can come close it's still difficult. I just don't think it's right to compare everyone to models and say that that's what they're supposed to look like and that's what society does. Especially with young girls.
@Pestilence , Sorry our conversation has two parts lol this goes for the gender gap. I agree. I don't want women dominance and I think that's the bad stereotype of feminists. I just look at the facts of the matter and the easiest way to fix things which would be to start with one. Emma Watson gave a really powerful speech to the UN. You should watch it. She explains why it's a man's fight too.
@Mad4Power, your speech and debate class shows, yeah my previous comment was put pretty crudely, please read it as *possible for most* and also sorry I had no idea models had to be a specific height, I also didn't know hip size mattered (although I know waist size does) I wonder why they care about hight, you can't even tell from the pictures
@Pestilence , oh and yeah healthy is prettyest (I'm aware that's not a real word)
@Mad4Power, yeah small steps are best, it's just hard to convince guys, I feel as though most are worried and also don't think that it's actually for equality. (Due to the lack of man-rights-fights.)
@Pestilence , most models are about 5'11 (I think). I think it's because of longer torsos and legs. Long legs have been considered attractive for a long time and I think the long torso make women look slimmer, but I am not sure. If you watch runway shows or model shows, then you'll see it's rare and hard to make it as a short model. I think men really struggle with the height thing too. I have a guy friend who feels like women turn him down because he's 5'6 and not 6'2 like they'd prefer. It's really sad.
@Pestilence , it's the problem with the word feminist. It should be equalist. It's just the main fight for about the last 100 years has been for women so that's where it comes from. True feminists just want everyone to be equal and for everyone to be treated with respect. I hate the stereotypes for feminists so it's something I like to speak up about.
@Mad4Power, I agree on all points, if it's any solace I think the new generations will do well with equality, as each generation seems to get more and more progressive (also because I don't know any sexist people around my age) I'll have to check out that UN video too
@Pestilence , I wish I could day the same. I know lots of people who are my age who say extremely sexist things. However I live in a very small town (2000 people) so being open minded and politically correct is not as common as one would hope.
@Mad4Power, that's odd, what region of the U.S. Do you live in? I live in a pretty rural area, racism is pretty big but not sexism oddly enough
@Pestilence , I live in the (upper) Midwest. I know a lot of guys who objectify women and when they are brought face to face with a strong woman they can be huge jerks. I am often labeled as a b*tch because I'm a strong woman whereas if a man did the same they wouldn't think twice. It's a lot of stuff like that, but some of the stuff they say to objectify women is disturbing. They're not all bad and it's not all the time, but it's sad to see. I live in one of those communities where a girl can't even show her shoulders at school in a tank top because the staff will yell at you for being "distracting to the boys learning". Instead of teaching the guys self control they teach the girls to be ashamed of themselves. That's sadly common in a lot of schools though.
@Mad4Power, that's like mid evil stuff Geez lol, I feel sheltered now haha. I'm surprised more people aren't all for independent woman, seeing as how they would clearly be better realationship material, I'll take a smart girl over a ditzy one any day lol. Thank god for the electoral college overriding those fools votes. Hope it gets better for you
@Pestilence , I appreciate that lol but I still don't like the electoral college. However, that's a different debate that we don't need to go into lol (mainly because this strand of comments is far too long). Good talking to you!
@Mad4Power, women allow it to control their lives.
@Captain Cockmonster, I don't think we necessarily let it control our lives.. However I do my best to make it not control mine.
@Mad4Power, if it controls your life at all then it's because you let it. Simple as that.
@Captain Cockmonster, some things are just simply out of your control, but let's just agree to disagree because this debate has filled the comments section enough.
@Mad4Power, allowing the media or pop culture to control your life is easily within your control though. Who our parents are is something outside of our control.
@Mad4Power, shut up I'm tired of reading your huge circle jerk
@Mad4Power, feminists fight for women only.
@Pestilence , you read my mind
Honestly though, women are oversexualized all the time in ads and commercials. Yes, men are definitely in underwear commercials, but women are in food, car, underwear, beer and various other commercials that have nothing to do with their bodies. Also, when men are shown high standards such as this, for example in Calvin Klein, he is displayed as sexual, but not as a sex object. Where as women are shown (generally) as sex objects. Which is actually how we view men and women in our society.
@Equalist, I'm not saying it's right, but sex sells.
Fat men can walk around with their shirts off without people freaking out. Obese men can't.
Women who are even slightly overweight get criticized everywhere they go, and god forbid they wear a slinky skin showing shirt.
It's not a double standard. It's simply different standards for men and women.
Likewise, stay at home dads are looked down on much more than stay at home moms.
Stop being obsessed with how the genders are treated in comparison to each other and focus on just treating people how you'd want them to treat you.
There is pressure on both sides but much more for girls. Actors get asked about their characters, actresses get asked who designed their dresses. Look at movies out now, male lead appearance v female appearance. the problem is not the high fake standards, its that women are more frequently ridiculed for not meeting them. Remember how you guys go nuts for boobs posts but there arent posts about package size.
*hides under table to avoid the war realizes i can profit so i put up a sign saying I'm open *
I know that there's a double standard. But like you can't deny that girls have it worse. We're sexual objects that are supposed to look like society's definition of perfect. Guys have a definition of perfect that society wants them to be but if they aren't that, not many people really care.
@A girl called Riley, not that many people care if you don't live up to the standard ether. It's mostly just you.
@A girl called Riley, I think girls have determined girls have a set standard to meet. Girls tend to be meaner to each other based on looks, and every guy I've asked about the "perfect" has had a different opinion, crossing the gamut
@A girl called Riley, I've never met another man who only judges women on looks. However, I've heard girls at my school call other girls "fat ugly sluts". You are the ones who determine the standard of beauty. Furthermore, I'm tired of everybody (including men) trying to make everybody think their gender has it the worst.
Also guys can look like this by going to the gym. Girls can't work out and get bigger boobs. And most girls can't get a thigh gap. The difference is. Girls' standards aren't always achievable without surgery. Guys' standards for the most part are.
@A girl called Riley, studies show finically secure men prefer women with smaller boobs. Just saying... Its probably not boobs thats are scaring the guys away. Besides there aren't really standards for the human body. Just people who are or aren't secure with themselves.
@A girl called Riley, ...So being tall and having a large penis are easily achievable?
@A girl called Riley, girl: thigh gaps, thin-ish (ie: not fat) are usually achievable with a diet, and a large rear is achievable with squats. Although I will say that yes the thigh gap is difficult to achieve, it's not a nessesity (I don't think many people notice) guy: Abbs, muscles. Abbs can only be achieved with 10% or lower body fat (diet) and muscles take on average 6 months for 10 pounds, and that's going balls to the wall.
@Pestilence , things that must be surgically altered: boobs, height, dick size
@Pestilence , the point of this was to show that most of these are possible without surgery, for everyone. It's just hella hard
@Pestilence , neither are abs like this.
@Pestilence , notice I didn't mention anything about butts. But no. Thigh gaps are only possible with the right bone structure.
In my opinion, women have it somewhat worse in a sense that some of the "ideal" body shapes are impossible to change. Whereas with men, it's usually a matter of physical fitness, which is something entirely within your control. Granted there are exceptions like height.
@Norple, we should all be equal, but in fact, women have It more rough in some aspects then men
This doesn't work because men aren't pressured by society to look like the photoshopped models.
Well, as a man, I do complain about those overly photoshopped pictures! XD
*insert agreeing sentence* state conflicting, but original stance idea. Support sentence declaring how I'm withheld for any hurt feelings felt. "Nice quote to support anything this said, probably written to be read as a alternative character we can all agree on, like Morgan Freeman's voice"
Abrupt ending, leaving space for someone to comment the opposite in full detail.
And that's how you start an argument.
We're trying to make a change lol
Grammar! Come on!
@emyemiemy, I think the message got people so... For lack of a better word, upset, that they didn't realize the terrible grammar
*eats popcorn while reading comments that both simplifing complex culture norms and strech small examples*
This is bs. The issue is that men expect women to look like what they see in media. Women never expect men to look that good. Society dictates that women have to look like these oversexualized dolls. While there are images of men like this, no one expects the average guy to approach that.
@Dragoon0106, my issue with your argument here is that no reasonably intelligent guy expects all women to look like models. Now, I'll admit that a lot of guys aren't "reasonably intelligent," but, if I were a girl, or if I were gay, I personally wouldn't want to be with someone who thought looks were a make or break thing, in any situation. Even as a straight guy, I wouldn't want to be working under or with people who thought that way, if I could avoid it. Then again, I am very prone to giving people around me the benefit of the doubt in most situations... but I haven't witnessed this kind of judgment from anyone who I respect (and if I do, they end up losing a lot of my respect as a result)
@Dragoon0106, It goes both ways. I've heard plenty of women talk about how they expect a man to look. And yes, being tall and having abs are usually in that criteria. However, I feel like Western society in general - both men and women - are moving towards a more realistic (read: reasonable) perspective. The media continues to push women as sex dolls the same way it pushes men to be breathing bank accounts ("you're not a real man if you don't" blah blah blah). That's because it's the media. Trying to tell you what's wrong with you so that you'll buy a product.
God I just wanna lick that man's abs...... and other parts....
Can we just say that society has put standards thatvwe think we have to follow, when in fact, its bs. You should love you. Any size or weight. But it goes for both genders, if your weight causes health problems, and you can change it, then try to do so. Its good to love yourself, aslong as your a Healthy you. So yes. Plus size women and men can be norm. It is norm.
Photoshop is an art. People spend hours making it perfect. Dumb people don't understand how that is their job. They are a part of society. Just because you have low self esteem doesn't mean you have to be rude to someone doing their job.
"Media sexualizes women too much" Google the I'm sexy and I know it music video. Look how sexualized the men are.
I feel stuckpixel is just a bunch of menists. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But I feel like they're biased and picking a side instead of viewing both sides. Again, really don't care if they're menists or not
Yeah, except in American culture women are sexualized way more than men. So if men don't meet that standard, so what? They still can do their jobs. But if a woman doesn't meet that standard, she loses all of her value more often than not. Call me immature, but I think it's immature to blind yourself to the sexism in our culture.
Gotta start lovning myself more. For sure.
Hot damn, that man is smexy... What do you mean I'm missing the point?
Ah* not I'll. I used seri to write that.
Make a change take a chance and break away
Isn't that inherent when "twiggy nerds" complain that girls only go for "jock douchebags" and it's not fair and yaddayadda?
Been running and working makin a change so I can all the females E-YEET
Get this soapbox out of funnypics
@Flame God Flann, I say leave it for awhile