This was used so awkwardly, it actually hurts to read
@Rias Gremory, I think it is because they didn't use enough commas.
@Rias Gremory, yeah I don't think anyone really wants a strip club to be that close to where they live... There's a place for those kinds of things.
@Rias Gremory, glad I'm not the only one who read this way too many times trying to understand it.
@RevNateBootylove, like my place. My place deserves a strip club. Um...just saying...
@RevNateBootylove, I do
@Rias Gremory, you still alive?
No idea what they're trying to say here...
@Madman in a Box, my interpretation of this is telling the Christians to not go to the strip club because they don't agree with it. Likewise, if gay people don't agree with the pizza place not catering their weddings they need to go somewhere else. I think that's what they were trying to say, but the wheels definitely fell off on this picture on that bottom line.
@Breathable Crotch, pizza at a gay wedding pfft! Yeah right! That's so risque!
@Breathable Crotch, I think it means that the Christians are choosing not to go to the gay wedding because they don't approve, just like the strip club
@Breathable Crotch, are you a wizard?
@BaconPopsicle, man, I wish
@Breathable Crotch, which I think is perfectly reasonable, as long as it's dealt with respectably.
There's a bit of a difference between a business refusing a service to someone that they would offer to someone else, and a business simply existing that someone disagrees with. Now if the strip club refused service to Christians, everyone would lose their minds too.
@ A Sad Blow Job, well, almost. As a Christian, it would be wrong to go to a strip club, lust and adultery and all that jazz. But what if I just want a beer? Can I go in and say, with my eyes closed of course "hey, I want a beer but could you have the girls cover up first? I'm christian" then get mad and sue when they don't accommodate
@Hiskid, so (serious question) just SEEING it is the issue? Is it not just as wrong to support them by purchasing something? I know I'm putting something hypothetical into a hypothetical question, but I'm curious
*hides from future religion/beliefs war
@allanvonbatman, *grabs by collar drags out of trench and into no mans land* nope YOU'RE GONNA FIGHT NOW
I just contacted brain cancer whilst trying to read this.
Too long, not that relatable
This is actually true. People want to force religions to change but when religious people want something they're told to get lost.
@Angular Notspice, it's not about them changing,
It's about the law.
The law should be that nobody gets refused service based sexual orientation, race or disability. Basically anything that they can't change about themselves. Christians who choose to be bigots shouldn't have special privileges because its 'part of their religion'. You could literally day that about any practice, but it doesn't mean it should be law.
@Archmage Araketh, *say
@Archmage Araketh, forcing someone to do something that goes against their religion is pretty fvcked up though. Besides if you know that someone believes homosexuality is wrong why would you want them catering your same sex marriage in the first place?? Also you say you can change sexual orientation but a "gay gene" has never been found or anything that prove that orientation is biological. Personally as a bisexual guy I feel like I made a choice and don't at all feel like I HAD to be into guys as well.
@Archmage Araketh, theres an issue with this though. Because a person of a faith such as judaism islam or christianity would say (im a muslim) that the act of homosexuality is wrong however having sexual inclination or desire towards the same gender is not a sin. We should just try tocontrol our desires. Its only when you act upon it, force other people to accept it and then find it disgusting and inhumane when people disagree with it that a problem arises. In islam for example pre marital sex isn't even allowed. We are supposed to try and control our desires and fulfill them in a pure way. But u can do what you want behind closed doors its up to you if u fear god or not. But we just say dont come parading around saying u just had it n it felt so good and people need to accept. Like if someone came to a muslim run halal restuarant and demanded they be served pork and alcohol that would be pretty offensive. Its a service they dont provide based on a religious belief.
@Archmage Araketh, hope i didnt come across as negative. Just saying religious people see some things in a completely different light.
@jklyt1, you're really trying to argue that sexuality is a choice? Fine, if it is, then why don't you choose to be attracted to a toaster? I never 'chose' to be straight and I don't see a reason anyone would 'choose' to be gay, considering bigotry like this still exists today. Let me ask you this, if I believed that paying taxes was against my religion, then should I be exempt from tax? I agree that if I was in their position, I would go to another bakery. But it's also about the principal. People shouldn't get away with discrimination. I'd think that the whole Martin Luther king era would have taught you that. If the customers were black or disabled, almost nobody would be on the owner's side. Why is this any different?
@Angular Notspice, I agree that certain restaurants that don't have food on the menu, shouldn't have to serve that food. But this isn't the case. The bakers refused service because of sexual orientation, which should be illegal, just as refusal due to race or disabilities should be illegal.
@Archmage Araketh, so are you saying all sexual preferences are genetic? If someone is attracted to their dog should that be protected? Now let's get one thing straight I don't believe homosexuality is wrong and as a bisexual male I would hate it if someone denied me service for being bi. But if I decided to marry another man I wouldn't try to force someone to cater, and therefore attend out wedding, if I knew it went against their religious beliefs. And you use the MLK thing with your assumption that sexual preference is genetic. Which there's yet to be proof that it is.
@Archmage Araketh, about the tax thing one thing i know about shariah which is u must abide by the rule of the land you live in unless it is fully opressing you. So yeah you would have to pay tax.
@Archmage Araketh, i never said that. I said from a religious perspective having sexual inclinations is normal. Having desires to do many things which are considered a sin is normal. Its whether you act upon it or decide to try to control it. But again you're thinking from a completely different point of view. Its the purpose they want to be served for. If i denied investing in a strip club or something similar would that be me discriminating against peoples beliefs that its ok?
@Archmage Araketh, my first funny pics flame war btw :)
@jklyt1, 'A new scientific study of 409 pairs of gay brothers could put to rest decades of debate over the existence of the so-called ‘gay gene’.
Research conducted by the NorthShore Research Institute in the US found clear links between male sexual orientation and two specific regions of the human genome, with lead scientist Alan Sanders declaring that the work “erodes the notion that sexual orientation is a choice”.
The study is three times larger than any previously done and highlights two genetic regions that have been tied to male homosexuality in separate research: Xq28, first identified in 1993, and 8q12, spotted in 2005.'
Although I don't condone beastiality, as I believe that it's animal abuse, I still believe that someone has the right to be attracted to whatever they are attracted to. Again, I didn't choose to be straight and I couldn't choose to be gay if i wanted to.
@jklyt1, This may be hard to understand if you go both ways, but me being sexually attracted to a man is as about as likely as you being sexually attracted to a chicken.
@Angular Notspice, they shouldn't have to 'control it', as there's nothing wrong with 'it' in the first place. I don't know what you were trying to say in that last sentence, but if you wouldn't want to invest in a strip club, then that's your decision. But this is a completely different scenario.
@Archmage Araketh, there's where we're different. We believe things are sins which you believe are perfectly fine. Would appreciate it if this difference was respected rather than dismissed as bigotry as is done to so many things religious people believe in. Religious people have reasons for certain things. Maybe try understand them instead of name calling. What you do with your toaster is none of my business. I'm not gonna judge.
@Angular Notspice, I'll respect you're right to have a view, but I can't respect a view that endorses the persecution of people, simply for being who they are. And before you give me that 'hate the sin love the sinner' bull, just don't. It's the most passive aggressive argument I've ever heard. 'I don't think that you're bad, just the way you are is bad'. If you don't realise this by now, the way we judge people is by their actions. If you believe that what they're doing is wrong... Then I'll let you put the rest together yourself.
@Archmage Araketh, no. Not the way you are. What you do. I believe one can control oneself. So i love them but advise them against what they do and help them. But thats my belief. For you is yours. For me is mine.
@Archmage Araketh, however businesses can reserve the right to refuse service to anyone so Christian restaurants can refuse to serve a gay wedding. I'm not saying it's right or moral according to the laws of America, but according to Christianity marriage is a man and woman and they're trying to protect in the only way they can now.
@Angular Notspice, what they do is who they are, being attracted to men or women isn't a choice or something that is done. If you are referring specifically to sexual intercourse, then I've got news for you. People won't have sex with someone they're not attracted to. If you disagree with the attraction to the opposite gender then you disagree with the sex too, and vice versa. It's a package deal.
@Archmage Araketh, people can refrain from having sex with who theyre attracted to also. You've read what ive said, how can you assume i would say something stupid like that. I already said it is not abnormal to have desires gosh.
@AnarchyWolf, look up the civil rights act 1964, you may be shocked.
@Angular Notspice, you condemn gay sex, but you're ok with the attraction? That's like loving guns but hating bullets. What do you expect them to do, just not have sex forever? That's just unrealistic.
@Archmage Araketh, i condemn pre marital sex but im ok with being attracted to a person. I condemn drinking alcohol but im ok with someone wanting it. I condemn stealing but im ok with people wanting to steal but controlling it. Makes sense?
@Archmage Araketh, Well, perhaps I can offer my opinion on this debate. I personally think that whether or not sexuality is defined by birth or choice is entirely situational and there is no universal "this way or that way" law that binds it as such. I'm a straight person with friends who are both born gay and chose to be gay and it really bothers me when someone says that its either one way or the other. I think that sexuality is a developmental thing that varies greatly from person to person and you can't put a very big generalization on it for how subjective and situational it is. That being said, I would never force anyone to do anything that would go against their beliefs if their beliefs are rational to the point where I can feel safe to not feel the need to challenge them for being irrational. With this situation, the bakery, I think that its more on fault on the couple for being such assholes to press someone else so hard even though there was an alternative given to them-
@Angular Notspice, but I don't understand what you want them to do, live a life of celibacy? Because they are always going to be gay and that means they will always be attracted to the opposite sex. So that would be the only option if you consider it to be immoral.
@Archmage Araketh, continued- to completely avoid the conflict altogether, but instead they chose to create such a huge conflict rather than be cool with the owner's beliefs. That is why I can't find myself supporting them, because they're assholes. The biggest problem with tolerance in this day and age is the people on either side that look for fires to start rather than avoiding them, that's why I put things under such a subjective spotlight. There is so many factors in so many different situations that would need to be taken into account before people up and choose a side rather than hopping on one bandwagon or the other. But I don't really have to deal with much of this, so it's none of my business. *sips tea*
@Angular Notspice, araketh is THE most argumentative poster in the community. You are wasting your time.
@Pubmarine Shamwich, i never knew. :'( thought i was being productive. But ive been fighting a false war. Thanks lol
@The Third Gender, so the couple are assholes for wanting a cake, from a cake shop? It's not about the freaking cake, it's the principal. People shouldn't be refused service because of race, disability or sexuality, as it states in the 1964 civil rights act. I thought that humanity had gotten past this after the blacks gain their deserved rights. Like I said before, sexuality isn't a choice, you fall somewhere on a spectrum. If you think it is, then why aren't you attracted to men right now? Because you were born straight. However I do agree that it shouldn't even matter if it's a choice or not,
there's still no valid argument against it.
@Pubmarine Shamwich, just because you lost an argument with me, doesn't mean i have to stop expressing my opinion.
@Archmage Araketh, I can confidently call you an idiot for saying it isn't a choice for some. I spend alot of time with people who are gay, not because they're gay, but because they're cool people who I deem worthy of spending my time with. Like I said, it's entirely situational and varies greatly from person to person. As for the principal, I can agree that it's fvcked up to not serve someone because of their orientation. However, with this particular situation where an alternative was offered and because of the fact that it was against his beliefs, I can say that these two people in particular are assholes. Take it into a different perspective, let's say that the bakery was owned by a jewish family, and a man asked for a cake with neo-nazi decorations on it and the baker refused because of his religion. This man was denied service because of his beliefs, how would you gauge the situation?
@The Third Gender, I'd say that it's a different situation. There is a clear difference between choosing to be a nazi and being born gay. If sexuality is a choice, as you claim it is, then how come neither you nor I have decided to be gay or bi yet? I would probably want to be bi, given the option, as it would give me a wider selection of people to possibly be with in that respect. But I can't, because I was born straight. Equating being gay with the ideologies of nazism is where you've lost your argument.
@The Third Gender, if a person can actually be with either a man or woman, it doesn't mean that they are constantly switching between gay and straight, it means they are bi.
@Archmage Araketh, I tried to post this earlier but for some reason it didn't post. I will be interested to see what really comes out of this study considering there have been tons of studies that say similar things and yet found no definitive proof. Now I'm not saying it's impossible for orientation to be linked to genetics, I'm more or less playing devil's advocate in saying there is not enough evidence and I do find it improbable. Biological things such as estrogen/testosterone can help guide someone in their sexual orientation but aren't the say all be all. I believe someone's choice is influenced heavily by biological and environmental influences but don't believe orientation is linked to genetics. Honestly atheists are starting to use genetics the same way Christians have been using "pre-destination" for centuries to control people. It's easy to control people if they believe they are "supposed" to be poor or in the case gay.
@jklyt1, I'm not saying anyone 'should' be anything I'm saying they should be allowed to be themselves without fear of persecution.
@Archmage Araketh, it's all in how they develop. Personally I think we're all born bi with heterosexual tendencies that come with the biological programing to reproduce. So in my mind, based on what I've seen, it either goes one way or the other in the beggining, or it sorta stays in that middle road until you finally choose a side.
@Angular Notspice, yeah, I feel like im at my limit, I'm not going to press my opinion on him for anymore than I need to. Ima just let him make the final decision.
@The Third Gender, do what i did. Give up. There's no persuading this one. Ive been shown the light by Pubmarine shamwich. This one will not stop arguing.
@jklyt1, give up. Its no use. Archmage will never listen. Giving up will not effect your statutory rights. You're a winner in our eyes... That was gay...
@Angular Notspice, lol that was a little gay
@Archmage Araketh, well if you say someone is genetically gay then that means you're saying if they are supposed to be and have to be gay unless they change their genetic make-up. Which is ridiculous. Basically you're just saying that you're trying to justify homosexuality with inconclusive scientific studies. Which you don't even really need to do, it doesn't matter either way.
@Angular Notspice, I'm listening and understand you I just disagree. Is that so strange? Not everyone thinks the way you do.
@Archmage Araketh, ver streenj endeed
@The Third Gender, I get what you're saying with the born bi thing and definitely not going to argue with the heterosexual tendencies for reproduction. But I think the whole argument stems from the fact that sexual orientations are kind of just a made up human concept which really serves no purpose other than to simplify it for us humans. Basically I'm just saying I agree with you but the older I get the more ludicrous I realize this entire situation is.
@jklyt1, the word 'supposed' implies a predetermined intent. I'm not suggesting that they are designated to a certain purpose, simply that they are attracted to whatever they are attracted to and can't change that, nobody can. That's why we can't wake up one day and say 'I think I'll become gay' as if you were turning vegetarian.
@jklyt1, yeah, its all really complicated and subjective and different for everyone. Glad you agree with me tho. :)
@The Third Gender, lol ya it's just like when I was younger I told myself I was straight even when I started liking dudes cause of religion. Then I told myself I was bi but preferred women, then just bi, and now I don't even factor gender into whether I'm attracted or not. It's just if I'm into someone I'm into someone and honestly I like it this way.
@jklyt1, ah, that's good that you know what you want in life. Makes it alot easier than to have to worry about all the menial shjt that would normally hold you back. Respect.
@Archmage Araketh, lol it's not an overnight thing. There are environmental influences that persuade you overtime and then one day YOU make the choice to sleep with who you sleep with. No one, not even genetics forces anyone to be gay, straight, bi, pan, or whatever other orientation some Tumblr kid will make up tomorrow afternoon. Look I get it, you're dead set on it being genetics but you're also looking from the outside in. I know you're trying to help people like me but I don't think you're right. And I know you don't understand as much as you think you do. You could be right about everything you've said, but I doubt it.
@jklyt1, you do make the choice, but what brings you to make that choice? Not to get philosophical here, but what are you other than a mould of the genetic material you were inscribed with? The decision as to whom you mate with isn't a matter of ideology or opinion. No amount of environmental factors can make you attracted to another gender. These environmental factors may help you discover where you are on the sexual spectrum, but for people who know where they are already, their position won't change. I will never be attracted to a man enough to become intimate with them. No matter how many 'environmental factors' I encounter. If I had the option I would choose to be bi, it would give me a larger selection of possible partners. But I'm not and never will be.
@Archmage Araketh, Hahahaha oh my God if you want to be bi for "a larger selection of partners" then you would be the worst kind of bisexual. Like I said to third gender I only identify as bi because it makes it easier for other people to understand where I stand. In reality I don't consider gender a factor in whether or not I'm attracted to someone anymore. I just like who I like regardless of gender. Saying someone is gay, straight, or bi is over simplifying everything. And yes you're right you most likely will never be attracted to someone with a penis because I'm assuming you have already passed your major formative years when it comes to sexuality. It's not impossible for you to change though. Some men look very convincing 😜
@jklyt1, not to me.
@Pubmarine Shamwich, u were right hes still going
@Angular Notspice, Just to reinforce what Archmage Araketh was saying. With the whole Muslim owners of a restaurant thing, the scenario is more like: they have this gourmet salad that they serve to everyone. But then someone they don't like comes in and they refuse to serve their special salad to them.
@Angular Notspice, Don't listen to the Pub Sham! These debates might leave you feeling flustered and 99% of the time (no matter what setting) you can't change people's views because everyone assumes they're right and the smartest arguer, but these are actually really helpful for getting a peek at the other sides reasoning and developing your own opinion. And people always get heated, but don't take it the wrong way because often they're just very passionate and are mad at problems in society rather than you specifically. Welcome to the flame wars.
@shakeweight, yeah i understand. I didnt realise this was a legitimate debate. I thought it was just presenting different points of views to understand eachother. But it didnt go like that. Also no one goes into a debate to understand their oponent. They just want to push their point and will never embrace the other even if wrong.
@Angular Notspice, the only reason I continued to give my opinion is because people keep replying to my comments. If you don't want a debate, then stop replying. It takes two to tango.
@Angular Notspice, right? It's so typical
Stuckpixels really trying to start a gay flame war lately
@Lord Commander Snow, or a flaming gay war
@Lord Commander Snow, gay flames? Gay fighting flames? Gays fighting flames? Flames fighting gays? Gay fight?
@Angular Notspice, gays on fire
These 2 reactions are in no way related.....
How frustratingly incorrect can one statement be...
As someone who isn't religious, I support the law that this picture refers to. You shouldn't be forced, by law, to serve someone if it violates your beliefs.
@Doctor Krieger, pretty sure they're allowed to refuse service to anyone regardless of the reason. Maybe they don't like the colour red, and don't want to serve anyone in a red shirt. Too bad for people in red shirts
I'm not a "fan" of the gay lifestyle but I would never deny service or discriminate because of it.
I was so ready for "Christians" to mean "Christian Bale" that I didn't understand it at first.
*slowly backs out of the room*
Is this comparing strip clubs to a gay wedding...? People need to get out more.
@NesQ, no, they are comparing a Christians moral dilemma to a gay moral dilemma.
@Hiskid, And failing horribly
@shakeweight, hold on, I'm gonna try to explain this. Okay so a Chrisian wants a beer (yes, we can drink beer). He decided he wants one from a strip club. He goes in (with eyes closed of course) and demands the woman be dressed so he can have his beer. He then sues under religious discrimination when they refuse. That make any more sense?
@Hiskid, I understand the scenario but it's not the same as what happened with the gay couple and the bakery.
@shakeweight, they went in to get a cake for their wedding (beer). when they came to something that they disagreed with, their refusal to cater weddings (dress the woman), they took legal action. Everything in parens can be inserted to change the story to the first
@Hiskid, No... gay couple is refused a service given to any other (straight) couple. The strip club didn't refuse to clothe their strippers because they didn't agree with the Christian man's beliefs. They wouldn't have clothed the strippers for anyone.
@shakeweight, It's about not treating people the same because of part of their identity. The strip club was not discriminating specifically because of the man's identity. He could have been anyone and the same would happen to him.
What about human rights? Lol
The people who down voted haven't yet seen the sun, due to their heads being stuck so far up their ass.
No matter how faithful you are being a Christian is a choice whereas being gay isn't- so it's not the same.
Wow a 109 comments you people started the debate without me.
Think about it from a business perspective, especially a mom and pop place: If the majority of people who shop at the store or plan for weddings would be turned off from the establishment serving gays then that would mean lost business. With the way the world is today we have to be so unbelievably sensitive to every word we say and decision we make. Gay men and lesbian women have every right every other human has, bottom line; however, people need to see the opposite side of the coin and understand that this is a business at stake, not a statement people will forget about in a month. Give it about 15-20 more years and all the geezers who are blinded by religion will die off, only then will we really start to see a die off of this mind numbingly stupid argument. (Btw I support gay rights)
@PewX, ***make, it leads for a very sad predicament. ***
Worst Batman of the series: The Dark Wedding Knight
I don't know whether to upvote or downvote it...