Comments
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@ archiethesailor, How not?
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@TheIbarra, the way that I see it is that God not only knows the future, he knows what will happen with it after our choices. So he knows all the possibilities of future. He might even know what is the most likely choice that we will make. However, our future is not predetermined.
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@GREAT ANGEL, but then there can't be knowledge of the future only the knowledge of what are choices will do. I think it is a valid theory but I also think that this comic is poking fun at a certain sect of Christianity ( whose name I can never remember) that believe that god has a master plan and all things in life are predetermined.
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@Darth Sion, How so?
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@ archiethesailor, but it still equates to God being a jerk
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@Darth Sion, Or you're wrong and it is possible for Him to do so
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@ archiethesailor, well it made sense when I said it. But actually I realized your statement is false. You can't know the future if it is not predetermined. If it's random, then you wouldn't know.
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@ archiethesailor, but no. It doesn't even come down to a dimensional extension. It's just logic. If something is not finite, you can't know it. The electron, for example. It's not a finite particle, therefore we can only predict where it may be or might have been.
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@Darth Sion, Kind of sounds like you're trying to put human limitations on God.
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@Darth Sion, you know God isn't human right? He doesn't adhere to our concepts or laws of physics
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@ archiethesailor, we'll said, to put it more simply: you can choose your future, but just because you choose, doesn't mean God doesn't know what you will choose and how your life will he affected by it.
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@The Sandlot, Is God a he?
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@Poser Pete, of course. He is "the Father." Even if He wasn't it wouldn't matter though
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@ archiethesailor, i just wanna applaud everyone for having an actual religious discussion and handling it so well bravo
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@Sah3369, it's Calvinism. And secondly the issues/paradoxes raised by free will vs. predestination arise from a flawed view of God's reality. We are temporal creatures, we are in time. He is not, therefore the past, present and future to us are all immediately accessible to him. So what to us seems like a future decision, to God, it's already been made -- always by our own choice, of course.
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@GREAT ANGEL, He's outside of time, so that's one of the ways we can put it so that we can understand it, but not completely accurate either. The problem arises from the fact that we cannot think or conceive of reality outside of time, He can.
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@ archiethesailor, to help people understand: Imagine you are standing in front of a doorway. You may either pass through it or not. God already knows which way you'll pass through. The choice is still yours to make.
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@ Officer Shaft, that might be true but I choose to not believe that because that makes god seem like a jerk. We are created and placed here by god if he knows what we are going to choose then he knows if we will go to heaven or hell which would mean god creates us with the intent or at least the knowledge of us going to hell. Maybe this would serve a greater good but I think an all powerful being would be able to stop or change us so that doesn't happen if he is the loving creator that we are made to believe. Otherwise he doesn't care and is a jerk by our standards
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@Sah3369, no, he makes is with a choice. Choice is a blessing to both us and Him. If He knew we wouldn't choose a life with Him, and then decided to not create us, then we wouldn't have had the choice. We have a free will to choose and to do so, we have to be created first.
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@ Officer Shaft, but is it really a choice? We are made by god and if we are created so that our brain will denied god and he knows that will be our choice its not really a choice. We decide or choose whether or not to have faith in god. Our brain makes that choice our brain was crafted by god and he knew what would happen when creating us then its not a choice because he crafted it that way. and is it really free will think about this scenario I put you in front of two doors I tell you behind one is life and the other is death. I know what door you will choose yes you made the choice but I could alter what is behind each door so is it really free will. I know its not the best analogy but I just got off work so please cut me some slack on that last part
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@Sah3369, You have a good argument, but I am gonna have to disagree with you on that we don't have a choice or freewill. I just came back from a weeklong bike trip that actually discussed this very thing, but I'm gonna have to go from memory here so bear with me. For starters, God doesn't create our brains to deny Him, quite the opposite, its just that Satan whispers what our flesh wants to do and our brains then make a decision. Yes, our decisions are pre-determined, we just don't know the future so we could end up thinking that we pulled a fast one on Him but really God already knew you were going to do that. I am seeing some people saying that we are either going to hell or God is a jerk, but I don't think that those are the real questions. Rather, is God real, or not? Well, if God isn't real then how do you know right from wrong? You could say society, but you have to remember that the Nazis were a society and they killed millions. If there is no God, then life really is pointless.
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@HeWhoShallNotBeNamed, But if there is a God, then there is a right and wrong, and you should be very aware of Him. Sorry, this is the part that I've forgotten, and I know that thats not a very good argument at all for why God is real, but its the middle of the night and I don't have my notes so If anybody wants I can reply to this post again when I can
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@HeWhoShallNotBeNamed, first I agree that if there is no god life is pointless in an eternity's sense. However if god creates us even though he knows by doing so we will make choices that will sentence us to an eternity in hell that's kind of a jerk thing to do. Also if everything is predetermined then we don't have a choice or freewill we just think we do
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@ archiethesailor, how do you figure that? If God knows everything that has ever happened and will EVER happen then that would seem to be the very definition of predestination. If he knows you're going to have pizza for dinner tomorrow, then regardless of what your other options you have available to you...you will chose pizza.
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@angrynarwhals, but how can it really be a choice if the outcome is already known?
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@Sah3369, the other option is that God is NOT all knowing. Let that sink in...how can god be all knowing/powerful and all good at the same time?
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@HeWhoShallNotBeNamed, if life is pointless... Then why do creatures exist that can't know God? Surely they have a purpose?!
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@ archiethesailor, I think it kinda does. But predestination doesn't equal no free will.
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@ReeseBobby, to further expand on that, just because a god would know what you will eat tomorrow for breakfast (for example), doesn't mean you do: if you could have cereal, eggs, or waffles you would decide then based on what you want but your god would know what you were going to decide before you decided. The difference is something all knowing knows all the small influences that determines what you wanted for breakfast while you just knew what you wanted.
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@HeWhoShallNotBeNamed, there is only right and wrong if there is free will. Without that it doesn't matter if I punch you in the face or give you one hundred bucks for no reason because my choice was predetermined by god. So some can say if there is free will and god knows whether or not you will go to heaven or hell its a jerk thing to do because that's basically a sentence. If there is no free will and everything is predetermined and there is a hell he is also sentencing people to hell.
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@ReeseBobby, but it does predestination is god making your choice for you therefore no free will. But if its premonition or the knowledge of the future than you do have free will god just knows what your going to do
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@GV SHREK, yes to feed the creatures that can believe in god
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@GV SHREK, he may not be or maybe he is all knowing and powerful but isn't nice all the time who knows the point is just to have faith. I mean does it really matter what god does not like we can do anything about it
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I hate this, but I laughed anyway.
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@Ajunta Pall, enjoy the logic
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But God sent him to hell for saying that, which means there is both a hell and God is a jerk. My brain hurts
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I am doing exactly what I am supposed to be doing at this moment. Funny pics and pooping. Right on schedule too.
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@idiotsavant907, godspeed man
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GOD IS A JERK!!!!
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@fromthebog, ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
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Maybe God isn't real?
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Nah, son, you still have freewill, your choices are all just preaccounted for.
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From how my pastor determines it, the future is not determined God just knows everyone very well so he knows how all of them will act in any situation so it's not really determined you're going to do what you want to do but God just knows that that's such a you thing to do
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This has been one of the best threads I've ever read on this app. Faith in humanity. 1up
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Its our choices, Harry, that make us who we are not our abilities.
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Take that Darwin!
Knowledge of the future doesn't equate to predestination.