🎵put that thing back where it came from or so help me🎵
🎵bum bum bum🎵
@Sam da ram, so help me! so help me! And cut!
FVCKING THANK YOU THIS NEEDED TO BE SAID
@Ajunta Pall, why? The context doesn't change stuff like "Women are to remain silent, nor shall they ever claim dominion over man"
@Cpzombie, Quit reading outdated mistranslations.
@Ajunta Pall, so you're just going to change the stuff you don't like?
@Cpzombie, I'm the wholeness of the book the context is that the new testament brought in equality. Also the rules of the bible are not inflexible and are meant to change with society to some extent.
@Cpzombie, you do realize I said MIStranslation? Mis, as in incorrect?
@Ajunta Pall, that's how it was meant by those who wrote it. It was written by men in a patriarchal society, so of course it says men are better than women.
@Cpzombie, This is actually a prime example of the picture. It was actually reworded to an alternate but equally valid translation just because people like you WOULD NOT STOP taking it out of context.
@Ajunta Pall, and please explain what context that could possibly be in where it's not fvcked up?
@Cpzombie, allow me to summarize: "Wives submit to your husbands, and husbands love your wives."
Just supporting your average, kinky, dominant-submissive relationship, really.
@Cpzombie, Religion is always changing with society. Every religion has gone through reforms. What's wrong with changing religion? Why are you so against it?
@Ajunta Pall, So a woman must always obey somebody because he rapes her. That sounds so reasonable! Deuteronomy 22:29 "Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."
@Cpzombie, *humiliated. You just outright changed a word. Ever think, looking at how much today's society hates commitment, that was meant to be the man's punishment?
@CriTiKa1, because it should simply go away. If it's the perfect word of God, changing it is despicable, but if changing it is okay, that means it isn't the perfect word of God, and so the entire religion is flawed.
@Ajunta Pall, I copy and pasted from this, to make sure I got it correct: http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/22-29.htm
@Cpzombie, oh, that's a typo. Another example is, in the early 1900s, a set of Bibles were printed with the verse "sin no more" misprinted as "sin on more"
@Ajunta Pall, another site that says "humbled". https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-22-29/
@Cpzombie, The KJV is based off the Latin Vulgate instead of the original texts.
@Ajunta Pall, @Cpzombie, shhhh. Look at yourselves arguing over the Internet about something that neither of you will ever change your minds about. You look silly, stop.
@BearDaniels, it's entertainment though. I'm currently sitting in Hobbylobby waiting for my mother to finish the scrap booking isles, and I've been here for a half hour so far.
@Cpzombie, that verse is actually about a man seducing a woman before marriage. It was custom at that time to give the father money before marriage as a sign on dedication. People would work for years to be with their loved ones in marriage. The bible is pretty clear that it's against rape.
Deuteronomy 22:25-27 mentioned the punishment the Mosaic Law commanded for a man who raped a woman. The man was to be killed by stoning while the woman was considered innocent.
@Cpzombie, if you're looking for something to do there is a marvel crossover with a soap opera called guiding light on YouTube.
@The Silver Shroud, I hate to be the guy that brings this up, but if the bible is against rape, then it doesn't have a coherent definition of the word rape.
That whole priest/little boy thing that's been going on for ages? I'm not saying all priests are evil (or pedophiles), but I am saying that the ones who do these despicable acts are being protected from the consequences of it. THAT'S evil.
The Bible is either too open to interpretation, or not open enough, and sometimes I'm not sure which it is.
@I Are Lebo, the bible is clear on no sex before marriage though. As well as against envy, lust, and sexual deviancy. The preacher and little boy thing? Catholic. They do their own thing and have been known to change rules.
@The Silver Shroud, the problem isn't really with the rules of the Bible, it's in the definitions. For example, me and it disagree very strongly on the definition of sexual deviancy. (As a result me and you disagree on it as well)
In addition, ruling out premarital sex is, in my (and shared by others) opinion, a huge mistake. The teen years are meant to experiment. You cannot know who you are as a person without exploring yourself and your desires. Likewise, you cannot truly know if you are compatible with someone until you are truly intimate with them.
Do you have any idea how many couples break up after their first time having sex? Imagine if all of those breakups required divorce attorneys.
@I Are Lebo, the bible just says not to do it. That doesn't mean you're restricted from doing so. I've had sex with three different women. Am I proud of it? No. Am I good at it? Absolutely 😉
I have huge problems avoiding lust. It's my weakness. But for a lot of people I know, it's not. You do not have a mindset of a Christian, so it may be hard to understand. Also, there's a 52% divorce rate as is, so I imagine there's something in the air for it other than waiting until marriage.
@The Silver Shroud, I was raised Christian, and I don't understand your mindset.
@I Are Lebo, But why should the bible be able to tell us everything?
@The Silver Shroud, I kind of agree with Cozombie. As much as I appreciate your mindset, it's not a common one among Christians. The general attitude is "if the Bible says don't do that, it's forbidden".
The even more common attitude is "the Bible says to not do that, and I also do not want to do that, therefore no one can do that. (But the other stuff that the Bible says not to do is stuff that I do want to do, so I'm just going to ignore it and pretend it isn't there)"
@I Are Lebo, I'm guessing the people you talk to are angry Christians then.
@I Are Lebo, the bible says to be accepting and understanding. To love no matter what. I'm just trying my best to do that. How is it being accepting to tell you what you can and can't do?
@Ajunta Pall, the bible is nonsense and your imaginary friend doesn't exist. That needed to be said more :)
@DHS Crisis Actor, DO YOU WANT TO FVCKING DIE YOU HEATHEN SCUM
@DHS Crisis Actor, I think I said that rather clearly, but just stating it like that isn't very productive
@Ajunta Pall, the bible says thou shalt not kill. I think that means your imaginary friend forbids you from murdering other human beings. Please correct me if I took that scripture out of context 😂😂
@Cpzombie, do I look like I give an f*cks what you think?
@DHS Crisis Actor, I will make a fvcking exception for brainless sheep like you.
@Ajunta Pall, a weirdo believer is calling me a brainless sheep. That's rich 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@DHS Crisis Actor, I'm a theistic evolutionist. I accept science. So you're the only one with a closed mind here. Obviously it can't be opened, so maybe it should just be splattered on a wall?
@Ajunta Pall, do you live in Vegas? If so, be my guest. But you probably dont so fvck off and go pray to your invisible sky daddy you offended little pvssy.
@I Are Lebo, False. I didn't have sex before I was married so for all I know, my wife is the best at sex. That is an over-simplified way of explaining it, but the beauty of sex can be lost with repeated exposure. I have plenty of close friends who sleep around and I have had many in depth conversations about this issue. I can tell you that I absolutely don't regret waiting for marriage. The bond between my wife and I is rock solid since sex is sacred between just us. I didn't need sex to help me figure out who I was as a man.
@TheMonkeyGod, but not all Christians think that way, which is what gives all of them a bad name.
@Ajunta Pall, this is the punishment for consentual sec isn't it. From memory the punishment for rape was death.
@Ajunta Pall, such a shyt translation
@ajr12100, I'm aware of this. Thankfully I am not in their ranks. Neither am I in any religious ranks. Nor am I atheist or agnostic. A riddle for you.
@The Silver Shroud, @Cpzombie,
@D1O, ME!!! I LIKE WATCHING NERDS FIGHT ABOUT RELIGIOUS NONSENSE!
@DHS Crisis Actor, come on dude. You seem like the fedora tipping scumbag that comes to some people's minds when they hear the word atheist. Try having respectful arguments, not blatant attacks.
@natedagr8, religion doesn't deserve respect. I consider it a duty, a burdensome duty mind you, to respect everyone's constitutional right to be delusional, but I don't respect anyone's delusions. Nor should anybody.
@DHS Crisis Actor, Well damn that's a rather scummy belief. Why should you care if someone peaceable takes comfort in believing that a higher being loves them. There is a point where forcing beliefs on people is an issue but the majority of religious people aren't like that so why ruin someone's life choices just because you don't agree?
@DHS Crisis Actor, the search for intelligent life continues.
@Jumpin Jive, because religion causes so much war and conflict and rather u believe it or not. It causes judgement and sadness to many. I think less of people when they believe in magic BS. Yes it helps people but in my opinion, not at a good cost. (It hurts more than it helps)
@Cpzombie, yes. Yes it does. Have you ever heard this cool new thing called the NEW testament by which we go by?
@Godricgryffindor , the book of Revelation is where some of the craziest sh¡t is.
here's a famous quote:
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
It's in the middle of a rant be Jesus about "stop giving priority to the rest of your life, I'm the most important, me me me me".
@DHS Crisis Actor, Aaand with that statement you've lost any respect you could possibly have had as well. I feel so sorry for people like you. Thank god you live in Vegas and far far away from me.
@ihatecums, Hahahahaha that's the whole point of Christianity- he is our one God, we bow to him. If you don't like it, don't be a christian.
@Cpzombie, the word that was translated to silent in the original Greek meant peaceful. Women were to remain peaceful. Paul was writing to Timothy's church, and in his church that was a necessary command. Do some research on what the Greek and Hebrew translations actually said there. What it seems to say in 1 Timothy regarding that issue is way harsher in modern translations than it was originally written. Additionally this is not the place to have this conversation. There is a ton that is misunderstood about passages directed toward women in scripture and I can't explain the years and years of research I've put into this over an fp comment. Sorry for writing a book.
@Godricgryffindor , isnt God supposed to be perfect? He sounds like a selfish sexist
@ihatecums, Selfish for forgiving all of our sins and giving us eternal life in heaven? Yeah, okay! Haha
@Godricgryffindor , and don't u worry about that. I'm as far from a Christian as bill maher
@ihatecums, That's fine-sad but that's fine.
@Chum dog, Hey look! Someone who actually knows what's going on!
@Godricgryffindor , and that's another thing that drives me crazy (specifically Christian) that u can just do whatever dafuq u want and be forgiven. Fvck all the commandments, I ll just be forgiven after I do anything bad. And I hope it helps u but it is just ridiculous to think there is a magic place where u go when u die where everything is good and u are eternally happy. It's just fairy tale bs to me
@ihatecums, You can have your own views without being insulting. You're worse than those religious people who stand on the corner screaming that everyone's going to hell.
@Breast Day Ever, I admire that truly.
@Godricgryffindor , mocking God has NEVER gone over well for anyone. They'll learn eventually, as sad as it is. It was their choice to not be civilized.
@Godricgryffindor , I think ur mad. I enjoy explaining my view and honestly want to know why so many people blindly follow a book/God. Sorry if it's insulting but it blows my mind how small minded people are. I m not tryna push my view. I'm tryna understand ur dumb ass one
@ihatecums, I'm not mad, I feel a little disrespected. Nothing you say will make me question my faith to God. I'm done with this, and a little bored honestly. Go find somebody else to harass.
@Godricgryffindor , I left my fvcks with ur mom. I'm disrespected by dumbass individuals such as urself. U should question ur faith or u are pretty much a blind sheep.
@ihatecums, You have such an immature, sad demeaner. Your "debates" will never be taken seriously!
@Ajunta Pall, You're right BTW. Not only mistranslations occurred, but the New Testament is a jumble of different testimonies. Furthermore, translators would change wording and add entire paragraphs to the Old Testament. If I got something wrong I apologize, but don't reply to me I haven't been to my beloved Funny Pics in weeks and I am disheartened to return to a flamewar. :(
@Captain TR8R, do I look like I give any fvcks what a weepy pvssy like you thinks? Boo hoo, you got offended by something I said. Now go cry to your mommy.
@Breast Day Ever, that's not proof either way. Besides, I said with many people. Not with everyone. Life is too complicated to simplified like that. Some people are not in their nature to be with only one partner their whole life. To force them to be is ludicrous.
@The Silver Shroud, the big issue I have with the Bible goes back to homosexuality. It is not accepting to tell people they cannot be gay. It is not accepting to tell gay people they cannot get married. It is not accepting to tell gay people thy have to pray for forgiveness for being gay.
None of that is acceptance.
It's putting up with something. That is not the same thing as acceptance. It's patronizing and condescending. Most so when it's not intended as such.
It all goes back to the mindset of "if the Bible says not to do it, and I also don't want to do it, then nobody should do it. If the Bible says not to do it, but I really want to do it, then it doesn't matter what the Bible says on it."
That's why you have politicians and protesters making life harder for gay and trans people, but absolutely no one seems to care about premarital sex or adultery.
@I Are Lebo, That is absolutely a fair point! I am not trying to force anyone to do that at all. I am simply stating that it can be done, and the result is beautiful. Also, sex isn't integral to figuring out who you are as a person. That's all :)
@Breast Day Ever, oh, I agree. My mom has never been with another partner other than my dad. They've been married 35 years now, and they have maybe the best marriage I have ever seen. They're definitely closer and more affectionate than any of my friends parents (I'm counting something like a dozen couples there). Not because they're soul mates, but because they work at their marriage.
Conversely, both my brother and his wife were kind of sluts growing up. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of women my brother has had sex with is in the triple digits. He once dated three different supermodels. At the same time! (😳)
But they both out that behind them, got it out of their systems, and now they are possibly the best (or second best) couple I know.
To each their own, I say.
@I Are Lebo, of course he isn't accepting of it, it's a sin. But it's not a Christians job to judge it. That is God's. The bible isn't the one with a problem with it, it is God. It's not what he wants. You disagree with that, and that's okay.
And I hate most politicians. But gay and trans don't have it that hard. If they can parade on the streets naked, having sex while dressed like Jesus, I think they aren't being oppressed by anyone. Not in America at least. If anything, they are being made fun of by a minority, just like every other race, and religion.
Just as you say it's patronizing to say us "putting up" with gays is wrong, then why don't you get on your knees and accept Christ, something you ultimately don't believe in?
Not being aggressive, just trying to give a viewpoint.
@I Are Lebo, void what I said before. This is kind of political. I'm personally conservatarian, and believe in freedom. "I don't care what you do, just don't tell me what I can't do." If a business doesn't want to bake a gay cake? Their business. If a business wants to sell gay jesus dildos? It's their business. I don't care. Just keep the government out of. You can always find someone else to bake a cake or make your dildos. If you can't, you can always use that freedom of speech to protest.
@DHS Crisis Actor, keep up the attitude. It doesn't bother me but it does make you look like a child and a fool. The cry to your mommy jibe? Is that really the best you can do? I'm disappointed.
@ihatecums, you can say the exact same things about a free market. Many wars have started over the free market or a conflict of political interest. Far more so than religion.
@The Silver Shroud, do you have any idea how many homosexuals and transgendered people get murdered every year just for being what they are? It's shocking and disgusting.
The problem is most people don't have the mindset you do. They absolutely are raised being told and telling others to judge people for being gay. And the whole reason why goes off of what you said. It's a circular argument.
"The Bible says homosexuality is a sin. The Bible says sin is bad. Therefore gay is bad."
And to make one thing crystal clear. I respect you. I respect that you stand up for your beliefs. But your statement "The Bible isn't the one with a problem with [homosexuality], it is God" is bullshït. If God had a problem with homosexuality, we would not have homosexuals. It is MAN that has an issue with homosexuality, it is RELIGION that has a problem with it.
Don't go scapegoating God for that. Nowhere on the Ten Commandments did it say "thou shalt not be gay".
@The Silver Shroud, for the record, there are only three arguments that can be made against homosexuality. Three.
1. "The Bible says it is a sin." (That's an argument we've had before so I'll leave it at that)
2. "Homosexuals can't reproduce." This is both ignorant and wrong. Yes they can. In vitero fertilization, surrogacy, adoption, or biting the bullet and having sex with a female friend. Also, we are overpopulated. We need more people to not reproduce.
3. "Gay people make me uncomfortable." Possibly the most honest excuse to be anti homosexual. But somebody making you uncomfortable isn't reason to outlaw or forbid it. That's not how freedom works.
@I Are Lebo, of course, there's also "homosexuality is unnatural."
But that one is so ignorant, I'm not dignifying it by explaining why it's retarded.
@Godricgryffindor , "nothing you say will make me question my faith to God". That right there is the problem. Children are indoctrinated so that they will never think for themselves.
@I Are Lebo, that's not right though. God has a problem with sin, and there is sin. He hates homosexuality, the act. He loves all of us regardless.
The ten commandments don't talk about a lot of things directly that God doesn't like. Sex with children, animals, rape to name a few.
But that doesnt mean God is accepting of it. Am I? Personally, I don't care about homosexuality. Do I want to see it? No. Will I make a fuss about it? If you shove it down my throat. (Not saying you are) in the eyes of God, it is unholy.
I agree with you about religion. It is terrible. But the bible isn't supposed to be part of a religion. It is simply, Gods word. Jesus came down to stop religion. To show us how to love others and pray God. Christians just like to do it in big groups. (I'm not the largest fan of church)
It's not tolerance. Everyone has lied at some point. Sinner. Does that make them different or better than a homosexual? No.
If you look at it this way, we all equally deserve hell.
@Cpzombie, that is EXACTLY my problem with the religion. The completely inability to accept even the possibility of being wrong.
It's arrogance, and leads to ALL sorts of issues.
@I Are Lebo, but you can choose not to go. That's what Jesus gave to us man. He gave up everything, for us.
@The Silver Shroud, just clarifying I wasn't calling you a sinner. If you judge someone for homosexuality because it is a sin, you most ultimately judge yourself. We're all equal here.
@The Silver Shroud, "we all equally deserve hell". Yes. Not at all. Hell is a disproportionate response to ANY crime.
"Jesus came down to stop religion." Then he screwed up big time.
"The Bible isn't supposed to be part of a religion." Yes it is. That's is literally ALL it is. It didn't come from heaven. The Bible is either man's interpretation of God's will, or (in my own eyes) a book written by men putting words in Gods mouth.
I'm sorry. I know this is offensive, but it is a point of serious contention with me. You have no idea what God wants or like. You don't know. The only thing you know is what the Bible SAYS God wants and like. Considering the likelihood that the Bible is an enormous con that was started fifteen or sixteen hundred years ago as a means of controlling the populace, the statement that you know God's will is both disturbing and frightening.
"God hates sin. Homosexuality is sin. We know this because the Bible says so."
It's not good enough. It's not enough!
@The Silver Shroud, for something to be considered good and bad needs a logical reason!
I dismissed the claim from my own religion that I should not eat pork. I looked into the issue and came to the informed conclusion that pork is not unclean, and aside from being slightly fatty is perfectly healthy for me to consume. I did not use my religion or my faith as a blanket to justify actions that I do not understand.
There's nothing wrong with homosexuality.
It isn't a sin. It isn't a bad thing. The Bible claims it is wrong with no backing whatsoever as to why. You have a choice. You can be a man, and come to your own conclusions, or you can be a sheep, and follow blindly the teachings of a work of fiction written over a thousand years ago as a tool of control.
I don't look down on faith. I do look down on blind faith.
@I Are Lebo, let me ask you something, if God asked you to kill your son, would you do it? If you saw God and he told you to do it, would you?
@The Silver Shroud, one last thing, for the record. If the definition of sin has nothing to do with good or bad, moral or immoral, but is simply what the bible says, then the word is meaningless.
"Because I said so" is not a reason. It's a deflection.
@Cpzombie, I see you're fighting the good fight over here. Proud of you :)
@I Are Lebo, or "because the bible says that" is also not an appropriate answer
@The Silver Shroud, no. I would not. I would assume that I was having a mental breakdown and was hallucinating.
WereI to somehow confirm that it was indeed God asking, I would ask why. If I didn't get an answer that satisfied me (or didn't get an answer at all), I would say to God, "I will not kill my son for you."
@LostLogic, I appreciate that.
It genuinely bothers me how many people refuse to use logic. The world would be a much better place if religion did not exist. There's no reason for people to be concerned for this world if they think the next one is a Utopia. "Why renovate my one bedroom apartment if in ten years I'm moving into a high end condominium?"
@I Are Lebo, I'm going to be blunt here. You're ignorant.
You think being a Christian is easy?? On what damn terms??
You think it's easy for faith? For something that people mock you for, call you ignorant, racist, homophobic, blind sheep
You think I lay down at night after a sweet pray with God and it's all happy doodle dandy?
Being a Christian can be downright exhausting. From the research, to the religious battles, to dealing with my trans cousin, who no matter how fvcking much I tell her I love her, thinks I hate her because I'm Christian.
You want to know what it's like being Christian? It will be the single hardest thing you will ever do. Blind faith. HA.
It is beyond frustrating. My own MOTHER is an atheist. I grew up with her. And I'm still as devoted to God as ever.
But if you ever think even for a moment, that not one Christian has contemplated everything they are you are dead wrong.
I try to be nice and happy. I try so hard because it's what my God wants and
@ihatecums, the letter u is not a word
@I Are Lebo, dammit I'm going to try my best. I can't tell you the times where I have contemplated my own death, because if it's not all real, my life is POINTLESS.
Try to think about that from a Christians perspective PLEASE
@The Silver Shroud, okay, for the record, I never said being Christian (or religious) is easy. It's especially difficult for people like you, who are not stupid, ignorant sheeple following the majority line.
Dude, I respect you. I can't do what you do. I can't have faith while questioning my own faith. Flat out, in most regards I look up to you and your beliefs.
I fully disagree with you and your attitude on homosexuality, but that's fine. I don't have to agree with you on every topic to respect you.
@I Are Lebo, I'm sorry for going off. It's not easy.
But part of the problem isn't just that you reject religion. You reject God. I can't help you if already, you reject even his existence. If you would ask God to prove his existence and he did, you would believe it be a mental problem. How is that not blindness?
@The Silver Shroud, also, if you use your teachings to be good to other people, it isn't pointless.
I do have one question, and I'm being sincere, I'm not trying to imply anything, I'd just like to know.
Is there a possibility that in your interactions with your trans cousin you made it seem like you love her in spite of being trans? (Also, is she mtf or ftm? Because if she is ftm you referring to her in the feminine is part of the problem)
I'm not saying you do this (I'd be surprised if you did, you seem much too smart for this), but there is little more irritating to a gay or trans person than being forgiven for who they are. I've had gay or trans friends who say (and I agree with if I was in their shoes) that they would rather be a called homophobic slurs than have some well meaning religious nut tell them "God loves you in spite of being a sexual deviant".
I'm just saying, that kind of thing doesn't come across as acceptance, it comes across as condescension.
@I Are Lebo, last time I was with him, I sat down on the couch and said "Kyle, I know we have our moments, but I love you. You are my family and my cousin and I grew up with you. We built forts, played on our D.S, and ate PB&J together. I miss that friendship. I gave him a kiss on the head, and he gave me a big hug. Everything seems fine. I respect his pronouns and such, and he doesn't send me gay montage videos despite knowing my discomfort for it. Then he added me to a chat room, him and four of his friends started calling me names, then he added my Kik to a gay forum. I had to make a new one because my main was filled with dick pics.
And from what I know, I did once. But that was around 8 months ago.
@I Are Lebo, and the men on the streets with signs saying "God hates f**s, those aren't Christians. Those are the sheep responsible for half the people who will never give God a chance. Because of a fool.
@The Silver Shroud, is this some sort of record
@Ajunta Pall, u git gud scrub
@The Silver Shroud, dealing with Christians can be even more exhausting xD
@I Are Lebo, I agree with you. Probably the thing I dislike most about religious people is how intolerant they are. And really though, they have no reason to dislike those different from them, yet they still do because the bible says to. I enjoy thinking and following my own path. Not attempting to be a follower of something created hundreds of years ago to gain political power.
@I Are Lebo, that's something about religion. It's basically just giving up. People stop thinking for themselves and just follow. It's a problem. It's just the same reason as how the church suppressed science because it made less sense then religion xD
@The Silver Shroud, man, the order of these has gotten all messed up.
Firstly, if I asked God to prove himself and he did, I would require definitive proof because statistically speaking, every single case of someone being contacted by God in the last near century that was verified turned out to be caused by mental illness.
Look, I accept that there are things that I don't understand. But if God "proved" himself to me by telling me to kill my son, it's a lose lose proposition. Either I've had a break with reality and am now a dangerously delusional man, or God is being a dïck to me by demanding a sacrifice (in spite of supposedly telling us all that won't be required anymore)
I reject God because he hasn't been there. I'm the grandson of four Holocaust survivors. I don't know anything about my family beyond my great grandparents, because all of the records are gone. My family has an enormous running history with cancer, with several members getting multiple kinds. I also suffer from
@I Are Lebo, chronic pain, and have so for literally half of my life. I have Aspergers Syndrome, high functioning. I've been unable to hold down a job my whole life as well. The longest I've ever worked has been three months. In addition, I have depression, and self identity and self esteem issues.
I've prayed, I've gone to synagogue. I've laid up at night praying for God to either help me out of my situation, if only a little, or to kill me already. Nothing happened.
I'm a practical man. The people in my life got to where they are through hard work and dedication, not because some mystical overlord helped them do it. Why should I worship something that doesn't help me in any way?
I reject God because if he even exists, he doesn't deserve my worship. In truth, I haven't run into anything in my life that's worthy of worship. To live your life in goal of being better to people. That's the right way to live. Not following a bunch of rules in an ancient book.
@I Are Lebo, faith of a mustard seed can move mountains my friend. My girlfriend is in a similar situation. She lives in an abusive home, and has RA, as well as arthritis and severe kidney problems. She has an eating disorder from a not-well recovered anorexic, and takes therapy for depression. She roughly works from when she gets home from school, to when she goes to bed on school work because of AP classes.
I'm dating a girl who if stopped taking pills, would literally be crippled and most likely die. And I thank God for her every chance I can. I can relate with the job thing.
Honestly, there isn't much I know to tell you.
I'm happy that you prayed, but I'm sad that you gave up. A payer doesn't have an expiration date, but you have to accept God. There's a passage that says faith of a mustard seed can move mountains.
Have you seen the tree that grows from a mustard seed? It's amazing how there is so much created from so little. Rocky, dry terrain doesn't stop it.
@I Are Lebo, in truth, we don't deserve him. Sin weighs heavy. And the wages of sin is death. But that can all change.
If you're a practical man, then you know anything takes work and time and dedication right?
How much time and dedication did you put into God?
How much has your life improved since you prayed?
@LostLogic, the bible says to show love and kindness to everyone..
@ihatecums, to be fair, that scripture was specifically being said by Jesus to what's known as his disciples, who made Jesus and his way of life, theirs. And that's not at all what he says. He said if you hate your family or yourself, you can not be my disciple.
@The Silver Shroud, my problem with religious groups is that both sides are often indistinguishable. The Christians who would make everyone happier and would make this world their heaven are very hard to tell apart from the Bible thumpers who warn everyone that isn't them of how God disapproves of them and they are going to hell.
Since both groups draw from the same well, it's hard to tell whether or not the well is poisoned, if you get what I mean.
As I said, I'm very practical, and I go by logic. I have to be. I've seen too many people do horrible things with good intentions because they were illogical (which is a different problem than flawed logic) to find faith without logic to be a good thing.
So, to anyone with logic and an open mind, the stories in the Bible come across as fictional tales told with the intention of getting across an important moral, such as loyalty, virtuosity, generosity, etc. That makes such tales valuable. They can use the Bible to be better people.
@I Are Lebo, there's lots of stories about atheists who got into archaeology trying to disprove the bible physically, but the majority of them end up converting. I can tell you're intelligent. I used to hate debating with you because you would kick my butt at it haha. I dedicated so much of my time trying to learn and better myself about the bible and Christianity.
If it helps, I can tell you're intelligent. You aren't just yelling at religion.
Personally, I believe in you. And I haven't stopped praying for you since we last had a similar discussion about God. I do it because I know you have it in you.
It may just take time, but just let me know when you have a question or just want to talk. Do you have a Kik?
@The Silver Shroud, however, to people without logic, the very same stories become historical accounting of events. Which would be fine, except that many of the stories are not only impossible, they are provably impossible. And the moral of the story becomes warped, usually becoming "obedience above all else", "everything is due to God", or the worst one "believe without question".
Both fictitious and non fiction stories can have varied morals. I wrote and rewrote this comment a few times because I'm having trouble getting my point across.
Discounting the stories which may or may not have happened (like a lot of the stories about Jesus), there are a lot of stories that, as I said, probably DIDN'T happen. Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, and so on. I struggle with it when someone tries to argue things which provably did not happen happened. Someone who denies evidence is someone who embraces ignorance, something that I find unacceptable.
@The Silver Shroud, if faith required burying one's head in the metaphorical sand, I fail to see it as a good thing.
It's hard for me to separate the belief in a higher power and a deeper meaning as revealed in a holy document with the belief in absurd events and the oppression of minority groups.
On one side of the aisle are intelligent people like yourself who go to great lengths to better themselves and others, and on the other are people waving around sign that say "God hates f*gs".
It's like with Islam. I'm know there are millions of Muslims who are good people, but there are also Muslims who call out for deaths of all who are not Muslim. It's very hard to separate the two.
Sorry for the huge posts. It's just how I feel.
@I Are Lebo, I look at it this way. If God wanted there to be lots of physical evidence, there would be. But the stories you mentioned about all that doesn't have some sort of evidence.
@I Are Lebo, what's considered fair, just, and right to you (a flawed human being with limited knowledge) is not what is fair just and right to an infinite all knowing perfect being. His ways are not our ways His thoughts are not our thoughts.
@The Silver Shroud, by the way, I never did get an answer to that question. Is your cousin mtf or ftm? It's really easy for someone uninformed on trans issues to hit a hot button.
Calling a transitioned person by their birth name (unless said name is unisex and they still use it) is a great way to tick them off. So is referring to them as the original pronoun.
@I Are Lebo, he doesn't care if I call him by his real name
@Jumpin Jive, fine. Be that as it may. But here is the thing. The Bible is NOT the word of God. It is an unverified piece of fiction written by man in order to control the populace.
I don't dispute God. I dispute YOU. I dispute the Christians who with one breath say we are all as God made us and with the other tells us God looks down on homosexuality.
I mock the ignorant cretins who claim to know what God wants or doesn't want. I look down on the arrogant assholes who pass laws forcing people who aren't even a part of their faith to follow its laws. I loath the self centred shïtheads who would picket the funerals or weddings of people they disagree with.
And I openly laugh at anyone stupid enough to think that theory of Creationism had any real merit in spite of the sheer amount of evidence that clearly disputes it.
I apologize for none of this.
@The Silver Shroud, I guarantee you they do. It would certainly explain why they would make a sudden turn and act hostile.
I take it you won't answer the question, then?
@I Are Lebo, if you research the historical origins of the Bible you'll find it one of the most well preserved and historically accurate texts from its time. It's events are validated by historians such as Pleny the Younger and Josephus to name two (note this is not what makes it God's word) homosexuality isn't the way God made someone. It's the result of a corrupted sin nature. If someone wants to practice it by all means. It's no different than lying or stealing all sins have equal weight. The Bible says in Titus that the Christian who hates someone because of their sins is in the wrong because that would make them a hypocrit. Only someone who is perfect can hate as a result of sin and be justified a.k.a God. I totally 100% agree that The Westbro Baptist church and those like it are horrible abominations and disgusting distortions of a true Christian, but then again by the Bible's standards. No one is a good Christian. All of them have their faults and are imperfect.
@I Are Lebo, ftm
@Jumpin Jive, lying is wrong because it is manipulating others an often causes harm. Stealing is wrong because it takes away other people's livelihoods. Homosexuality isn't wrong, what it is is nobody else's business.
@I Are Lebo, If you were God you could decide that. It doesn't have to make sense to you. Right and wrong only exists because God determines what they are. Just as a child might see somethings as harmless so do we see wrong things as harmless. While the parent, who is more knowledgable and wiser than the child, knows that it is wrong. It's not for us to decide what's right and wrong, but if that's not the answer you were looking for here is a pretty standard one. Homosexuality is wrong because it distorts the image of marriage God ordained.
@Jumpin Jive, and if you weren't a mindless sheep you could make up your own mind.
God did not invent right and wrong. Morals are not a result of someone telling you what's good and what's bad. Part of being an adult is figuring that out for yourself through experience and through listening to other people's experiences.
Literally every single of one your arguments has been used to justify murder, rape, slavery, and genocide. Not just by the Muslims, but by the Egyptians, the Greeks, and even by Christians.
@Jumpin Jive, also, homosexuality and marriage both existed before Christianity did.
@I Are Lebo, and Judaism was around before that
@Jumpin Jive, what's your point? We Jews don't have an issue with homosexuality beyond the occasional bigot.
@I Are Lebo, and you're human nature is showing once again. The God of The Bible has created morals and right and wrong because He is God. What you're saying is like saying that no one invented the rules for football and we are supposed to figure it out on our own and chose to play as we see fit. That kind of thinking doesn't work out too well. You enter into Moral Relativism.
@Jumpin Jive, what the frak have you been smoking? Seriously, re read your comment. That was ridiculous.
Firstly, "my human nature is showing"? Is that supposed to be an insult? Being human IS natural, you ignoramus!
Comparing moral viewpoints to the rules for football is like comparing apples and monkeys! There is no correlation!
Also, how the hell do you think football came about? People took a pre existing pastime and modified the rules to create a new sport. The rules change from time to time. It's called a rule change! Like recently when head to head contact was ruled to be dangerous to the players health. Go watch the movie Concussion, it was all about it.
Holy hell, are you one of those morons who thinks that sunsets are proof of God because "how can something so pretty exist by accident?" Because that's one step removed from believing that the sun sits in a fiery chariot and is drawn across the sky every day by Apollo!
@I Are Lebo, indeed human nature is natural and is corrupted so we tend to use our own logic and reasoning to shape the world around us to fit that same flawed logic. Getting caught up in the technicalities of a metaphor is always a joy to see btw. The point I was trying to make was is that there is a need for a moral standard. Without it we are left with moral relativism which leads to conflicting interests. And I do believe creation shows evidence of God because something so infinitely complex does not happen by happen stance. I don't look at a painting and determine because the artist isn't standing right next to me that it must have happened on its own.
@Jumpin Jive, that's the problem with religious ideologists. You seem to be only capable of seeing everything in terms of black and white. The world doesn't exist in black and white. There's a HUGE difference between "this sunset is beautiful, it must have been made by God" and "this sunset just happens to be aesthetically pleasing due to random circumstances". The world is not that simple.
And having a single, inflexible moral standard leads to war crimes. It leads to murder in the streets. It leads to rape. It leads to the mutilation of children.
Right and wrong are not always easy to tell apart. This is because the world has many many different points of view. You cannot start with the problem of life solved because your solution is WRONG!
@I Are Lebo, if everyone ascribed to a moral standard then we wouldn't have these problems, but because humans are selfish and inherently flawed we seek to kill each over many things. Having no standard leads to wars and crimes having one standard that everyone obeys leads to peace, but that's a pipe dream. That will never happen because no one wants to follow anyone else's rules but their own. It's how we are.
@Jumpin Jive, you aren't hearing me. During the Spanish Inquisition, they WERE following a moral standard. In fact, it was Christianity's moral standard. And it included execution, rape, and murder.
Who is going to create this moral standpoint? You? Because unless God himself comes out of the heavens and gives it to us en masse, it isn't God's. It's the psychopath/con artist claiming to hear God.
Your moral standpoint is filled with contradictions, inconsistencies, and things that make no sense.
Forbidding premarital sex doesn't make sense.
Forbidding abortion is archaic and sexist.
Forbidding homosexuality is ignorant and discriminatory.
Requiring attendance to a weekly event to be preached at is stifling and repressive.
I could go on but there's no point in doing so.
Modern society is supposed to be about freedom. Religion is about the stifling of freedom. And please keep in mind there is a big gap between freedom and anarchy.
@I Are Lebo, Once again you are using your own flawed human logic to write the rules, much like the Inquisitions. They did not follow Biblical teaching but instead religious leaders which the Bible mentions can be "wolves in sheep's clothing". All of the examples you listed come from your own understand. Which is flawed. The Standard is derived from the life of Jesus. He is an example of how to live.
@Jumpin Jive, the man lived 2000 years ago. Even if he was real, and even if he was actually the son of God, life changes and evolves. Jesus cannot give an example for everything that is around today because much of it wasn't around then. That would be like asking your great grandparents how to deal with a digital stalker. They won't know, that wasn't a thing when they were younger.
You need critical thinking in order to be able to handle yourself as an adult in today's world. Not relying on fairy tales to give you every answer to every problem.
@I Are Lebo, yet you yourself can't come up with answers to every situation. We know Jesus wasn't a fairy tale due to record found written by Romans, Jews, and Christians. Even people who were skeptics of Him wrote about Him. I.e. Josepus and Pontius Pilate. You can infer what to do in modern situations using the principles of His life. You can see the themes and ideals He had and can apply them to modern day situations. Unless you are mentally challenged then I suppose it would be a bit difficult.
@Jumpin Jive, I'm starting to get a headache here.
Nobody knows the answer to EVERY situation (except MAYBE God, and he isn't sharing). Anybody who thinks otherwise is a fool who is either lying to themselves, or is applying blanket solutions. The only only solutions that fit every problem fit them all poorly.
I have no problem with people applying ancient morals to daily life. That's one of the few things religion does that's productive (another being forming communities).
My point that I keep trying to make, is that when you try to apply those morals to other people, you cross the line. Telling someone else that they can't marry someone else the same gender as them because God says that's not allowed is ignorant, meddlesome, and in general a douche move. If God has an issue with it it is between them and God. Butt out, it's none of your business. And don't give me any bullshït about it being "for their own good". Why don't you go to all the people on AshleyMadison.com and preach
@I Are Lebo, to them about the sins of adultery?
Religious ideology is like a penis. It's fine to have one, it's fine to be proud of it.
But it's not okay to go around shoving it in people faces.
@Jumpin Jive, @The Silver Shroud,
You guys wonder why I don't have faith in the Bible (or Christianity in general). It's actually quite simple. I find it extremely difficult to put any faith in an organization whose prominent members include psychopaths who murder in the name of their God (in spite of killing being literally at the top of the list of things NOT to do), maniacs who preach impossibilities as if they were fact, and perverts who molest and rape hundreds of children every year.
How can I put faith in a system so obviously broken? How can I base my morals on a group who protect child rapists on an ongoing basis?
Christianity is a frigging minefield. It's a field of wholesome morals studded with depravity. I'm doing all I can do, and using my own judgement to live my life, because the judgement gained from the Bible is DEEPLY flawed.
As Markiplier once said: "you do you, and I'll do me. And we won't do each other. Probably."
@I Are Lebo, I can agree, but dismissing The Bible because of its followers is like dismissing medical treatment because others who have taken it are evil. Of course Christians aren't perfect and in some cases are extremely evil. This isn't because of The Bible but because of them. Don't put your faith in Christians but rather put your faith in God and The Bible itself. As someone who has been to many churches, schools, universities, and other places. Some of the most rotten disgusting and horrible people I have met claim to be Christians. Notice claim. A lot of people claim to follow God without understanding what it truly means. They bring their own ideas and logic to The Bible and twist it to fit their prejudices and views. It's sad really because those people aren't truly saved. I totally understand how off putting it can be though.
@Jumpin Jive, I think that's the most logical thing I have ever seen you post. And of course you're right, judging an entire religion based on its followers is unfair and unrealistic.
But I also dismiss the Bible based on its contents. As I've said before, if you show me the Bible and tell me that this is the book that you take your morals from on how to be a better person to yourself and those around you, my response would be "that's great, you are a good person."
But if you show me the Bible and say "this is how everyone must live because this book is a historical document made by God and is unquestionable" I'd call you an unthinking zealot and tell you to get out of my face.
I'm not saying the Bible is useless. Far from it. What I am saying is (some of) the stories within are fictional. Adam and Eve were not real, the story of Noah's Ark never happened.
This is not a point I am willing to entertain. It's a fairy tale. You may as well be arguing for the existence of Santa Claus.
@I Are Lebo, It is difficult to believe because society has taught us that our logic is the only God we have. If something isn't logical than it must not be true. Again the logic of humans is flawed and the logic of God is perfect.
@Jumpin Jive, it's not logic. Believing in a story that is provably wrong has a word. That word is delusional.
Believing that a single fat man named Nicholas rides a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer around the entire world in a single night, sneaking into people's houses to leave the good ones presents (who he knows which is which and what they want by spying on everyone all year round) is insanity.
The stories were written during a time when magic was still thought of as real (or by storytellers who wished it was). That doesn't make them useless, you can take inspiration from any source.
But don't try telling me that in spite of carbon dating and the study of genetics, that every human being is descended from a single pairing of one man and one woman six thousand years ago. That's just willful ignorance.
@I Are Lebo, Carbon dating has so many flaws I won't even go there. I believe not just because a book has told me so but because of what I have experienced. God isn't some distant cosmic judge. He is personal and I have seen stuff that you'd say is crazy. It's my personal experience that matches up with what The Bible says.
@Jumpin Jive, I'm sorry, what flaws does carbon dating have?
I did a little bit of research just now, and I've only been able to find scientists which list the weaknesses of carbon dating being specific accuracy and ease of contamination.
Accuracy has never been disputed. Carbon dating isn't magic, it can't give an exact date when something happened, it gives a rough estimate. Sometime the estimate is a large one, eg: between ten and fifteen thousand years ago. And contamination doesn't make the result wrong, it makes the result entirely invalid.
The only other answer I've been able to find is by a creationist site blatantly lying through their teeth. "The ages were chosen without any scientific reasoning: they were picked out of the clear blue sky!"
Truth in genesis is ironically named, because there is little truth to be found. Their arguments are not backed up, and their lies are obvious.
The Earth was not created six thousand years ago. To believe otherwise is to be a fool.
@I Are Lebo, it bothers me when fundamentalists take the fallibility of science to be proof of its inferiority. It's easy to have all the answers when you're making them up.
@I Are Lebo, Carbon dating does not take into account variables. The half life of carbon can change due to multiple factors. Take Mt St Helen's eruption for example. Rocks formed 30 years ago dated thousands of years old. Why? Heat and cooling are just a few things that can effect carbon datin g's accuracy
@Jumpin Jive, okay. So there are things that can muck up the readings. But that still leaves a lot of situations where nothing of that sort has happened. If it takes something the level of a volcanic eruption to mess up carbon dating, it's still more reliable than most tests.
A skeleton found in a shallow grave in a middle eastern cave hasn't gone through any heat or cooling event of that level, which we know by the simple fact the the remains are too fragile to survive such an event. And when those remains test out to be forty thousand years old, we KNOW, not suspect, KNOW, that the Earth is older than Creationism claims.
Yet another huge problem with religion. When science is proven wrong, scientists seek to understand how and why they went wrong and strive to find the correct answer.
When religion is proven wrong, religious people collectively ignore it and deny they were ever wrong. Instead of trying to grow as a group, you metaphorically stick your fingers in your ears.
@I Are Lebo, What I stated was simply one factor of many that effects carbon dating. Another variable is how much carbon fourteen did the item in question have to begin with? Is the half life of carbon fourteen consistent? (Which science shows is a no) so no carbon dating is not infallible as most keyboard scientists claim. Unitarianism has been proven false and as you put it. Scientists metaphorically put their fingers in their ears saying "religious people are incapable of scientific research"
@Jumpin Jive, carbon dating is an estimate yes, but the speed of light is not wrong and has been quantified
@Jumpin Jive, ur metaphors and reasoning are absolutely ridiculous. U blindly follow a religion and its morals because u cannot think for urself. It is so disheartening and a sad reality for many. The world is full of people with different views and judging them/trying to "help" them is a problem. Question ur religion. It is full of hypocrisies and flaws. U can definitely come up with ur own morals and views like me and many others. U learn real quick what is acceptable and not in society and can do so without a god. It is better to discover and come up with ur own morals/values. Then maybe u won't be stuck in ur Bronze Age thinking
@ihatecums, you're right on all points. The entire problem with religion is that it promotes group thinking instead of critical/independent though. Any group that demonizes thinking for yourself is a group whose core interests is manipulation and control.
A piece of constructive criticism, though. When you use proper grammar and sentence structure for your entire post but replace every instance of the word "you" with "u", it comes off as more than a little strange. It's not a lot of effort to keep in the extra two letters, and not doing do makes you come across as the worlds smartest retarded person.
....You know, to put it politically correctly.
@I Are Lebo, I play by my own rules. (Lol, no blind sheep here) but I guess people focus on the "u" situation. I thought my name would help show how weird/how much I care what others think. In the end this is a funny pic app and rather people take me serious or not is up to them. Idgaf I just enjoy the content and fvck with dumb people
@ihatecums, well put. 👍🏻
I didn't read all of this. I just wanted to read the part that Charlemagne mentioned.
@Donald Trump, Where is it? I was scrolling too fast and didn't see it
@CriTiKa1, in the first half above and below all the 😂 emojis
@Donald Trump, Thanks
@Donald Trump, I'm looking for where he mentioned smashing skulls. I already found the brainless sheep..
@Donald Trump, wait just saw it. That's a screenshot right there
@I Are Lebo, I disagree with the bibles views of beastiality. What wrong with a human sleeping with a bear?! Sure I could kill my partner with a flick of my wrist but I'm very careful. Trust me once you go bear you never go back.
@Jumpin Jive, because, sh*t stain, almost all the ills of our society are caused by religion. You've had a long running history of committing crimes against humanity, such as slavery, witch trials, mistreatment of lgbt people, and systematically molesting children. The delusional people who buy into these invisible sky daddy myths only end up causing harm to others. It must be said loud and often, that religion is fvcking nonsense.
@DHS Crisis Actor, people have committed crimes in the name of science just the same as religion people find all kinds of excuses for their actuons
@I Are Lebo, I know this was a week ago, but the bible never directly stated the earth's age. I believe in the long day theory. (God built the earth in seven days, each day could be a hundred million years.) what is a day to someone who loves outside of time? Who commands it?
It makes more sense anyway. You can even pair it with the big bang and evolution if you'd like. But God said land rose from the waters, and that great beasts roamed it. Dinosaurs and explanation for say, sea shells buried underground in Texas? It only makes sense to me. The bible also said the earth was a sphere and sat upon nothing. Contrary to the belief that the church argued the earth was flat. If they did, they never really read the bible.
@I Are Lebo, and on the subject on carbon dating, they found squishy red bone marrow still present in a T-Rex bone, and dated it to find out that we were way off about the extinction of dinosaurs, and it at most was only around 30 million years ago I think? Maybe it was 50. Way less than what we thought.
@The Silver Shroud, when did that happen?! I've never heard of any evidence refuting the 65 million year estimate.
Still, I have no issue with people believing whatever they want. But like with any theory, your beliefs have to be able to accept new evidence. Anybody who is willing to stretch the truth to fit their own beliefs is somebody who cannot be taken seriously. Anybody who claims that dinosaur fossils were placed by God to trick people is, and I make no apologies for using this term, RETARDED.
The long day theory, which is stretching the use of the term day, is a stretch that I'm fine with. The Bible is supposed to be metaphors, anyway. (Well, it's either metaphors or lies, depending on how literally you take it)
But that's the problem with the Bible. All of it is metaphor, but people (even you) take some of it literally. And the problem is even religious people cannot agree on which parts are 'literal'.
My answer? None of it is literal.
@Jumpin Jive, I know this is a week late, but I just want to throw this out there: he did say "almost all". Far more crimes are committed in the name of god than in the name of science or progress (though I of course admit some are)
@I Are Lebo, Hitler committed genocide as a means to help natural selection. Genesis 1 is considered to be poetry judging by its structure and the historical context. It's easy to memorize for people who had just come out of bondage.
@Jumpin Jive, interesting. I already knew about eugenics and one of the arguments given for the Holocaust (all 4 of my grandparents were survivors, I grew up learning a lot more about the Holocaust than I would've liked)
I honestly think was a small religious aspect to it as well. I mean, Judaism isn't a genetic path. They butchered converts just as they did born Jews. I think it was a swirling selection of bias. Some racism, some anti-semitism, some elitism.
I mean, I still agree with you. WW2 was not in any way a religious war.
@I Are Lebo, the rhetoric coming from modern day evolutionists is that we should kill off the retarded, religious, and people who don't agree with them. People commit crimes over dumb reasons. It's not their ideology that kills people it's the people who kill people.
@The Silver Shroud, I only just now realized I never responded to your question about kik.
I don't have it. I'm assuming it's a chat program? Is it PC based or phone based?
@I Are Lebo, it's a phone app used for chatting. I was just letting you know if you ever have questions or confusions about God, that's what I use to talk to people
@Jumpin Jive, I had to re read your last post like five times.
What the FÜCK are you talking about?! NOBODY is arguing for the genocide of the mentally handicapped! Are you joking?! People are so unbelievably sensitive about that issue it's hard to even argue for them! Do you know how much shït I get for even using the word retarded in the first place?
Nobody in a position of importance is going to publicly argue in favour of genocide, regardless of their personal beliefs. Not of the mentally handicapped, nor religion, not any other.
The only people making barbaric arguments like that are the morons and psychotics who spend all day arguing online about various conspiracy theories. They aren't "modern day evolutionists" (which by they, is not a thing. Evolution is accepted by almost everybody), they're lunatics.
You're the minority group on this one. Creationism is not a valid theory. It is a disproven theory disregarded by everyone competent or respectable or professional.
@I Are Lebo, you should really look some of this stuff up. It's really mind boggling to hear some of the things some scientists have to say. You can argue that creationism is disproven the same way evolution has been disproven. Lack of evidence. Evolution isn't repeatable testable or observable much like creationism so neither are proven science. Hence the word theory.
@The Silver Shroud, well, thank you. I don't know whether I'll take you up on that, but I'll write it down and hold onto it, just in case.
@I Are Lebo, Evolution is just as proven as God is. Only reason it's accepted is because it allows an escape from the consequences of having a God. An escape from accountability. Also because people like to contort twist and obscure facts to suit their worldview.
@Jumpin Jive, evolution was observed by Charles Darwin while spending time in the Galápagos Islands. He discovered that Finches (a type of bird) were all over the islands. But they all looked a little different. Upon lengthy tests and exploration and discovery, he found that the environments on each island were slightly different. Some of the islands were hotter, some of them were wetter, etc. Because of this the available food sources for the Finches differed from island to island. One had more insect life, one had more fungus, etc. Seemingly coincidentally, each type of Finch had a beak that was shaped in the best way to get the available food on that island.
Then Darwin tested the Finches themselves and discovered that they weren't different species of Finch, they were all the same species. They could even breed with the other types of Finch.
All evolution is is ongoing adaptation. It is very observable. Humans that live in the Himalayas have a lung structure that has adapted to
@Jumpin Jive, the thin air and cold. People in India have skin that is more resistant to bugs and humidity. Hawaiians and Polynesians are more resistant to heat, the list goes on and on.
There is lots of evidence for evolution, we have been cataloging it, as a society, and you can go to a museum to look at it.
Creationism has the Bible.
Evolution has museums.
@I Are Lebo, adaptation and evolution is different. Micro is excepted but there is no such thing as a change of kinds. A fish can not become anything else save another kind of fish. People observed adaptation and took it farther than it actually goes. Leading to modern day macro evolution.
@Jumpin Jive, evolution IS adaptation.
You do not understand your own arguments.
@I Are Lebo, micro evolution is adaptation. Macro evolution is change of kinds. There are 6 types of evolution micro is the only proven one which is synonymous with adaptation. You don't understand your own theories
@Jumpin Jive, there is no such thing as macro or micro evolution. People who argue against evolution often bring up kinds of evolution. Evolution doesn't work like that. A fish does not just become a rat. Changes over hundreds of generation form legs. We have fish today that are capable of walking. The change from gills to lungs is especially complex, and is not one change. Many generations would have both. We have animals today with both.
Evolution doesn't happen in spurts, it happens constantly. And very, very slowly. And in most cases, changes happen from mutation.
@Jumpin Jive, you know what? I'm high, and it's possible I'm mixing up terminology right now.
Can we drop the argument? I didn't mean to start shït all over again a week later.
@I Are Lebo, well that form of evolution contradicts the fossil record. That's why punctual evolution is a thing.
@Jumpin Jive, fossils can only show alterations of bones. Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Cling to ignorance if you wish. It doesn't affect me.
But don't make up science and expect it to matter. There's no such thing as micro or macro evolution. That is not what evolution is. It has never been a part of the theory, and if you can't tell the difference between a theory and a hypothesis, there's not much hope for you anyway.
I regret ending this the way I did. I wasn't mixing up jack shït, I was just trying to be polite.
You're wrong. Accept it, or don't.
@I Are Lebo, micro evolution and macro evolution are very real and are terms used to describe the specific changes in evolution. Micro evolution is a term used to describe the small changes in an organism, such as the bone structure slightly shifting. Macro evolution is the term used to describe the long-term, overall effect of those thousands of micro evolutions.
Also, not that anyone cares anymore, but the whole "put it in context" thing is a sham. Yes, there are a lot of people who read the Bible out of context and jump the gun. But, as someone who has read the old and new testament in their entireties, I am informed enough on the context to say there is still plenty in the Bible that is messed up, and even more in the Bible that disproves it's own monotheistic principles.
@Arbys 2to5pm Deals, firstly, you joining (and therefore renewing) an argument from half a year ago is a real shït disturber move.
Macro evolution is not real. You cannot take an overall look at a process that never finishes. Evolution is a process, not a procession. It is not a 'step 1, step 2, step 3' type of thing, it is an ongoing series of adaptations to one's environment.
Lumping a bunch of individual adaptations together doesn't make a macro adaptation, it just makes a bunch of individual minor adaptations that you have lumped together. When you mislabel things, it makes it easy to confuse others.
I do agree with your stance on the Bible, however.
@The Silver Shroud, have you ever heard Professor Jordan Peterson speak about the bible? He takes the perspective of a clinical psychologist to it, and the results are very interesting.
Especially his point that modern western values are based on the foundation of the bible whether you believe in it or now.
What about the one where God sends a couple bears to murder a bunch of children?
@Cpzombie, 23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
@Cpzombie, Old Testament God was hardcore
@Cpzombie, that's a very interesting passage in the bible. God sent two bears who ate the kids because they were making fun or laughing at Elisha, God's prophet. Which meant in a way that they were laughing and taunting God himself. Puts things a bit into perspective. But yeah pretty cool lol
Hahaha so much perspective. Insult God, he kills you. What a beautiful moral role model he is.
@Cpzombie, lol bears will do that. I once killed this girls kids so I could knock her up myself. #bearthings
@Cpzombie, First off.... at the risk of splitting hairs, 2 Kings is part of the OLD Testament; not the New.
Secondly, have you read 2 Kings in its entirety for context or are you just looking for a reason to find fault in the Bible? Assuming you genuinely would like to know, I'll try to shed some light on the matter.
The "he" referred to in "And he went up..." is God's prophet Elisha. Some bible translations say "children" while others say "youths." Regardless, a substantial group of young people were mocking God's prophet for his bald head and his allegiance to the Lord.
Whether Elisha was bald due to uncontrolled hair loss or due to him shaving it to group himself with others who shaved their heads in similar fashion as God's followers... well, I don't know for sure.
But if you're familiar with the Bible, you'll know that Elisha's mentor, Elijah "went up" into Heaven in the second chapter of 2 Kings and the youths were sarcastically taunting Elisha to do likewise and "go up"
@Cpzombie, likewise and "go up" as a way to prove he really was of the Lord.
And yes, God's punishments may seem out of line by today's standards, but mocking Elisha in the way that they did was their way of mocking God as well.... and even Bible critics will tell you that they're familiar with the phrase "God is not mocked."
@The Silver Shroud, so mock him and he murders you? Such a great role model...
@Cpzombie, God isn't the role model here. Jesus is.
@The Silver Shroud, and they are the same.
@Cpzombie, the son, the father, and the holy spirit make up the holy Trinity, yes. But no one can strive to be like God. But you can strive to be like Jesus. He was of human flesh, and born in this world. Unlike God, and is his only true son.
@The Silver Shroud, and had magic powers. So what you're saying is that everyone should sell their soul to a higher power in return for magic
@Cpzombie, cute. No, obviously we aren't the son of God himself, so we don't have those abilities. We are to be kind, loving and giving as Jesus was.
@The Silver Shroud, pretty sure you mean the magic.
@Cpzombie, if you're going to act like this, I'm not going to continue this debate.
@The Silver Shroud, I'm just clarifying: you consider yourself reasonable, and think that people who can't model themselves after God because he is magic should instead model themselves after his son, which is also him, but born from a virgin.
@Cpzombie, um, Anakin Skywalker was also immaculately conceived. Are you saying he's not a role model? Because he is and he's awesome and my buddy Ben wants to be just like him
@Cpzombie, i was a little bit into your side of this for awhile, it wasnt all that bad. But to be disrespectful to a subject that people truly believen is just stupid. There are infinite possibilities that could explain the meaning of this universe, sure the christian religion has a low percentage chance to be correct, but there are lottery winners every now and again. Even if its a big lottery to win, its still technically possible.
@Cpzombie, i wouldnt have said anything either if it wasnt for the fact that @The Silver Shroud, is being so kind in his deliveries, all they seem to be trying to do is share something with you, they arent attacking you or anything. Thats rare in this type of debate and you should respect that
@The Silver Shroud, Ohhhh my gosh you sound soooooo dumb
@averagestuckpixluser, God doesn't "kill" people. Your own choices determine your destiny. Everybody has freewill, if you deny God, that's your own doing.
@Godricgryffindor , how so? :(
@The Silver Shroud, I apologize!!! I think I meant to say that to someone else!:(
@Godricgryffindor , oh it's okay!!
@Traceratops , I'm trying to help them as well. The Christian bible has far too many inaccuracies to have any chance at all of being correct, so I'd hope they would at least switch to something without as many glaring untruths... Christianity is a religion about a God that made people and told them not to eat a fruit, knowing that they would, just to get some torture subjects, and then he did a bunch of other stuff (including murdering a lot of babies), and then made a virgin give birth to himself, where he went around with magic and healed people, then died and became a magic zombie. I used to be Catholic, so I think it's really sad when people actually believe all that...
@Cpzombie, being Christian costs a lot of time and money throughout your life, and it's sad to see people waste their lives for something that doesn't exist.
@averagestuckpixluser, you make me happy
@Cpzombie, +10000 points for you
@Godricgryffindor , He does however, cast you into a lake of fire where you burn for eternity. Not if you're a bad person or anything, just if you don't worship him.
@TotalSchediophiliac, He gives you a fair warning, its not like you don't know it's coming.
@Godricgryffindor , nothing's coming. That's one of the reasons religion works. It controls you thinking you can and can't like and do certain things. But that's not the case, instead you fear what you think will happen.
@Godricgryffindor , what about the native Americans? They had no way of knowing about Christianity, so did they all burn in hell? That's a pretty sadistic God.
"Woman are to remain silent, nor shall they ever claim dominion over man"
@Suq Madiq, "Old testament vs New testament" learn the difference please.
@Godricgryffindor , @I Are Lebo, you can't just forget about something that is part of your religion. You can't cherry pick what you do and don't want to follow in a single religion. You either believe in all the bs creation and homophobic stuff your you don't. It's that simple. You follow a religion that caused war. Killed millions. Suppressed science.
@LostLogic, Jesus came in the new testament and basically said the old testament laws are obsolete and gave us new laws. Its no different than reading about how the U.S had laws stopping women from voting. Still in history books to inform us how it used to be.
@Godricgryffindor , so the perfect word of God was imperfect? That pretty much invalidates the entire religion...
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Huh would ya look at that? I didn't need the context to realize that's fvcked up.
@averagestuckpixluser, the bibelot also says if you had sex before marriage you should be stoned to death.
@SmacktalkerSkywalker, just because the bible says this and our society says it's alright, doesn't make it any better than the other. Quit trying to compare scripture to make something sound better or worse.
I've read your comment 7 times and I still have no idea what you are saying.
@averagestuckpixluser, the way I read @SmacktalkerSkywalker's comment it sounded like he/she was trying to make your comment sound stupid. Me being a Christian I know we are supposed to follow as the bible says and not what society says is acceptable. I was simply trying to say that people need to also quit trying to compare different scriptures to make 1 thing sound better than another. Sin is sin and there's no way around it, but the goal is to be perfect and sinless. Idk if that makes it clearer or not, sorry for the confusion, it's hard to do this over text.
Ahh I see. I did not take his comment to be in that way, just another example of biblical morality. I understand your point about societal and biblical morality being separate, but for myself I cannot follow a moral system that I disagree with. If my moral system aligns with societies so be it. In any case, the reason I, and I believe the above commenter, replied to this post is because we find many things in the Bible to be very repugnant. I respect your right to believe however you want, but I cannot respect the biblical quote I cited in my comment.
@averagestuckpixluser, that's old testimate though. In that time and place, you were stoned for stealing, adultery, homosexuality, disrespecting someone important, you name it. New testimate says to be respectful of others. To love and accept everyone, and to always give when asked. Do people always follow that? Of course not. We are not perfect as a people, and cannot blame the actions of others on a book that tells us directly to love and be charitable.
@averagestuckpixluser, some passages were to prevent the Israelites from being unholy in the temple of God. Deuteronomy, talks about what is necessary to keeps Gods presence in a temple. Those rules applied to the Israelites who lived in that temple. Examples of out of context passages like this are numerous.
@The Silver Shroud,
So the Old Testament is just Christians misinterpreting God? Or the Old Testament is just the stuff Jews believe and the real Bible is just the New Testament? I grant you the New Testament is better than the old obviously, but it doesn't make the truth claims of Christianity any more true. The New Testament is still against homosexuality and believes women to be subservient to men.
@averagestuckpixluser, of course it's against homosexuality. It's against every sin. And again with the women, a man represented his household. Your wife was to listen to you, but you were supposed to respect your wife's wants and opinions. Back then, if a man could not control a household, it looked very bad on the father alone. Made him look weak, and useless. Of course things change with time, but my girlfriend for example will listen to me, but only because she respects me and my decisions, as well as that I listen to her and take great consideration in her thoughts before a decision. This is something we both want. But if you don't follow it, it doesn't mean you're condemned to hell forever. Same with homosexuality.
@The Silver Shroud, so you're saying that the bible isn't God's true word? If the time period it was written matters, it was obviously by people, and not a magic omniscient thing.
@Cpzombie, of course it is. A lot of it is old testimate though, which is almost exclusivity that time point and place. It is to let us learn what it was like before Jesus gave his life for us on the cross.
@The Silver Shroud, I don't think you understand what sacrifice is. He died, knowing that he would come back to life in a few days anyway... Where is the sacrifice? Maybe an annoyance, but certainly nothing as major as it would be if somebody else died.
@Cpzombie, we're done with this discussion.
@averagestuckpixluser, that verse specifically refers to people who have submitted themselves to God's authority. You're part of the reason this pic exists
@Cpzombie, when he died he lost his power to be omnescient. If that's not a sacrifice as a god than holy shjt i don't know what his!
@Cpzombie, I guess I would find crucifixion way above annoying, along with the scourging. The hanging naked would be closest to annoying.
@Sweet or Sour, considering his omnipotence, he could've summoned some heroin right before XD
@The Silver Shroud, I have to agree with @Cpzombie here. The death of Jesus makes no sense. Why would God have to have his son die in order to forgive people's sins? Why didn't he just, forgive them? The whole Jesus on the cross thing always bothered me because I was raised Christian and it seemed like it was only told so it could be used to guilt trip people about questioning things.
@TotalSchediophiliac, @Cpzombie, when you come and look at it there is just so much stuff in the bible which is just like 'wtf' like Adam and Eve. That stuff is so nonsensical it makes me laugh. Religion has so many problems in it. Like saying the world is geocentric, which isn't true. Yet people still somehow believe it!
@TotalSchediophiliac, it's because the wages of sin is death. And death of jesus, was the ultimate wage. He did it so more could be saved. You used to have to sacrifice a sheep whenever you sinned. But now it's as simple as asking for forgiveness. Your wage has been paid, all you have to do is enjoy a life with God.
@The Silver Shroud, Ah. Well I'm not personally religious anymore, but thanks for the actual answer.
Go away, religion.
When they say you have to put it into context but it already is - meme history right???
"Go marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her" partial verse from Hosea 1:2.
@Evan Slongoria, prime example of the picture. Hosea was a prophet that God told to do this as a representation of Israel whoring themselves to other false idols. Hosea had to marry a prostitute and remain faithful to her because Israel was doing the same.
You mean in the year 2016 there are still people who believe in the Bible? Hahahha that's retarded af
@DHS Crisis Actor, That's one of the main reasons I've thought about killing myself :D (It was only logically thinking about what would happen, not actually planning on doing it, I like living)
@Cpzombie, why not kill yourself? I mean nothing matters anyway, your achievments dont grant your immortality just because people remember your name. For you to contemplate suicide because of people wanting to believe that there is a reason for life beyond to simply have kids and die, than you need serious help, go check yourself into a hospital right now. I feel like reporting you to someone so you dont shoot up a school or mall or something.
@DHS Crisis Actor, logically? It's really not though. Think about it - there has to be something that exists that is more than we can understand as human - what caused the Big Bang for example? What caused what caused the Big Bang? So no matter what, there'll always be something that's unexplainable by human minds. So why couldn't there in fact be a God? There's no proof against it (actually there's more proof for it) so why discount it just because?
@Traceratops , That's what I always wondered, for people who don't have a religion. Whats stopping them from doing bad things? Where do they get the idea of morals and how come they'd want to do good things with no hope of a reward in the afterlife.
@Godricgryffindor , herd mentality mostly. Its an evolutionary thing. But the weird one for me in scientists. Why do you commit so much time to figuring out the meaning of life if you dont want a meaning to exist
@Traceratops , Yeah that puzzles me too. Personally, a life without religion would be... Hopeless. Like its pretty great to live life knowing that what you do actually matters, and there's someone there for you(God) 100% of the time.
@Godricgryffindor , its something i personally envy about religious people... i myself just am not able to fallow something, but i full heartedly support others to do so.
@Traceratops , Well I respect you for being a respectful person! I have a hard time with it too- I'll admit I often forget to pray, I rarely read the bible, and I don't go to church because I work, but I believe in God and follow him nonetheless
@Godricgryffindor , the fact that you believe is good enough. It allows for a much easier life overall.
@Traceratops , I agree, and hopefully with time I'll get closer to God, it just takes commitment that's hard to find time for!
@Godricgryffindor , Hi! I'd like to start off by saying nothing I'm gonna say is meant to be mean or insulting but I understand how text can seem that way so I apologize if it does. Secondly I'd like to say I'm an atheist and I'd like to clear up some of the confusion you are having. What is stopping me from doing bad things? Basic logic and morals. I know some people don't understand how atheists can have morals and wonder "where do they get the idea of morals" like you but it's just a built in thing. Murdering people is awful just like robbery. They don't deserve to be killed or robbed and even if they do there is less permanent ways to deal with them,like prison. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I'm a bad person. I go to work like you, I go home to my family like you, and I volunteer in my community like you. I want to leave the world a better place than I left it. It doesn't matter if I never exist again, I want the world to be better because I think about future (contd)
@Godricgryffindor , generations and I want them to have a good life. Everyone deserves life. Being an atheist I feel like I value life more than you, because to me it's all we've got. Why would I want to kill someone? That's the most evil thing someone could do. To rob someone of their one and only life. Last Saturday I saw a dog walking around the road at night and saw their gate was open so I took the dog back and closed it. I didn't do this because I feared eternal damnation, I did this because I didn't want the dog to die. It would have been sad and I would have felt bad. In fact it terrifies me to think that some people only are good because they are scared of being sent to hell. Like where you said "they'd want to do good things with no hope of a reward in the afterlife". You don't do good things to get rewarded. You do good things to be a good person. You have to watch out for each other because life is sacred and everyone deserves a fair chance at it. With your question (contd)
@Godricgryffindor , scientists, I'm actually studying to become a physicist with a minor in biology. I'm not doing this for a search for a meaning to life. I'm doing it so we as a species can learn and survive. I don't want to learn how to cure diseases so I can go to heaven. I want to cure diseases so I can help people live and live a full life because no one should have their life cut short by a disease or virus. I do it for the good of humanity,not for the good of me. If God exists and I do go to hell for not believing,at least I will have made a difference for some people. Some people will live longer and if I have to go to hell for that,I will gladly go. I also love astronomy,it's why I got my physics degree. I want to explore the stars because they are beautiful and amazing. They are what created our solar system and our galaxies and understanding them could help us understands ourselves. I'm not trying to find the meaning of life. I'm just trying to find information and (contd)
@Godricgryffindor , why they are the way they are. Some of the things just fascinate me. Like supernova and fusion. Whether it's gods doing or just nature,I don't care. It's amazing and I would like to study it so we can understand it more. One of the sadest moments of my life was when my friend,who's becoming a priest, said to me "I'll pray for you everyday to make up for your moral failings." That was the last thing he said to me before we went to our separate colleges. He said I had "moral failings" I'm a human,just like you. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I want to go murder pillage and rape. I know what right and wrong is because I have common sense. I don't need anyone to pray for me. I am just a regular human. And sadly it's not what @Traceratops said where I'm only good because of herd mentality (btw the correct term is pack mentality) If everyone is rude, like they were in Seattle when I lived there,I was still nice. I'd donate money when I had it and(cont)
@Godricgryffindor , I'd try to make at least 4 people smile everyday. Not because of threat of hell, but because it is the right thing to do and seeing people smile always made my day. And as I said before it terrifies me that people would commit crimes if they didn't have God like you said. People shouldn't have to be good people just because they are scared of hell. I know I've said this a lot but it's important. Being an atheist my whole life I've had a lot of people treat me like an idiot. Like when people say they'll pray for me I understand it's to be nice and I appreciate it but it also seems a little rude. It's like saying "oh you don't believe X so I'll pray for you so you don't go to hell forever" I don't want to be prayed for. If I go to hell that's my fault but that's why I have to make my life count. I only have one. I can't just go do drugs or something stupid like that. I don't want to waste my life. It's the best thing I will ever have yet I'd gladly throw it away(cont)
@Godricgryffindor , gladly throw it away to save someone like my wife or friends because they have the same right to life as I do. If I have to give up my life and either never exist again or go to hell to extend theirs, I would in a heartbeat. I will say I am biased against extreme religion due to my one friend. He told me dinosaurs never existed. He said God only made the bones so archaeologists could have a job. That's not true at all! They of course exist but he said the bible never mentioned them. Doesn't that mean that boa constrictors shouldn't exist then? It doesn't mention them. But I digress. I feel like humans as a society should have equality first and then religion second. If someone is Muslim or Jewish or even Nordic they have the same rights as you and I. They are people. They aren't some evil person trying to ruin the world. They are just normal people. I love what the one Muslim man did a couple months ago. He was on a bus when AL Shabaab stopped it and had the (contd)
@Charlemagne, you've been typing for literally a half an hour straight.
@Godricgryffindor , woops! Had the Muslim and Christian passengers go to different sides so they could kill the Christians but this man among others said no and defended the christians. He stopped a slaughter. Sadly he was shot and died in the hospital later. Did he save the Christians so he could go to heaven? Was he scared of allahs wrath? No. He did it because he is a good person. And another commenter said that we should be killed. Shouldn't we judge people by their actions not by their beliefs? Someone said that we weren't civilized. How are we not? We aren't going around killing raping and pillaging. I get up and go to my job and study and sleep. Being civilized isn't determined by what you believe in, it is determined by what you do. If a Christian went around chopping heads off they wouldn't be civilised. If an atheist went to work like anyone else and then came home loved and respected their spouse are they civilized? According to some no. But that is why I stress that (contd)
@Godricgryffindor , people should focus on being kind to other humans first. I know I veered off topic pretty badly but it's just a big topic for me. I don't live so I can go to heaven or hell. I live to be a good person. I didn't learn morals from the bible. They are just common sense things everyone knows. I don't kill myself because I know the value of life and would never want to end mine or someone elses. I study science so I may find answers that benefit mankind. I'm sorry if any of this was insulting. I just wanted to help try to clear any confusion you had. Morals don't come from the bible,they come from inside yourself. (Fin)
@GiantDwarf01, I'm always amused when morons believers present the "you can't prove god doesn't exist so therefore he exists" arguement. No body stretched any brain cells there at all 😂😂
@Godricgryffindor , you make your own meaning for your life. If you need a religion to have morals, you are messed up in the head. You shouldn't need magic consequences to not murder people, just be a good person because that's the happiest way to be...
@Traceratops , eventually all of humanity will be gone, along with all its achievements. I simply try to be as happy as I possibly can, and enjoy life as much as I can while I have it. Eventually everything is going to be destroyed, so enjoy it while it lasts.
@Charlemagne, you just wrote a fvcking book. How long did that take you?
@DHS Crisis Actor, yay another logical person! High five!
@Cpzombie, 40 minutes.i was hoping for a better response than "you've been typing for 30minutes"
@DHS Crisis Actor, *sigh* even though I know you will never be open to accepting a different view point - let me clarif. The "can't prove it doesn't exist therefore it exists" argument isn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that, theoretically, logically, there's a chance that because there's no definitive proof to disprove it, there may be a chance, however small you might think, that it's true. Think about it - science works that way as well, or at least, theoretical science does. Einstein's Theory of Relativity for example - only recently are we even beginning to be able to test and prove parts of it. So in a way the idea "there is a God" could be seen as a theory that's backed up less by tangible proof, and more history and people's personal experience. Same can be said for many things - do you believe that the Big Bang created the universe? If so, what tangible proof do you have? So far all the proof we have is bits that point towards it but can't prove or dispro
@GiantDwarf01, ...ve it. So if it's not stupid to believe the Big Bang happened, then why is it stupid to think that, possibly, there could be a entity that created the world and is all powerful by human standards?
@GiantDwarf01, don't you dare try to talk to me about science. In science, the things we understand and know to know to be true are based on facts. No one has ever been able to prove the existence of their invisible sky daddy, nor has any invisible sky daddy bothered to appear before humankind to prove they exist. But you can go ahead and keep holding on the that delusion that there might be, just like how I'm holding on to my personal delusion that there's a toaster orbiting Mars. You can't prove there isn't a toaster orbiting Mars so it's possible that it's true.
@DHS Crisis Actor, first off - it seems you are quite upset for some reason, and I apologize if I've offended you in some way. Secondly, all science had to start with an assumption - an hypothesis, if you will. Then facts are found that either prove or disprove that hypothesis over time. In this case, the hypothesis is "there is a God". Now, how do you test that? How do you test that there is a entity that is more than the universe itself? It's impossible to prove or disprove directly. However, if you look, there are many small signs that point towards there being a higher being - same way there's many things pointing towards the Big Bang. The difference? Some people immediately shun any idea of there being any minor proof of God and instead ignore it. Look, I know you will probably never accept it, but there is just as much proof of a God existing as there is other theories such as the Big Bang or evolution and such. People just don't want to hear about it and say they're making it up
@DHS Crisis Actor, regardless, I hope you can at least eventually come to an understanding that not all people need 100% proof of something to believe in it - it's called faith for a reason, friend.
@GiantDwarf01, yeah I know what faith is but delusion is belief in anything that's false. So your "faith" would be more accurately called delusion.
@DHS Crisis Actor, I think you're complete missing the point of our conversation... There's no proof it's false, therefore the most you can say is that it's a belief that may or may not be true. Now if you have definitive proof, I'll listen. However, in my own life, I've seen proof, therefore, it can't be a delusion, if it has been proven truth in my life.
@DHS Crisis Actor, maybe this'll at least leave you less antagonistic towards people's beliefs: My story is quite unique. I was born with a rare disability that made most physical tasks quite painful (which I still have so, don't worry this isn't miraculous healing story). Throughout life I've never been able to join most other kids my age in their activities, so I became a nerd. Science, math, all that jazz was my escape. Now my parents were Christians, so I grew up hearing about it. But it was difficult for me to understand how a loving, all powerful God could let me be, well me. So, I decided I was going to try and disprove it myself. Spoiler alert, I couldn't. The more I looked the more it made sense that there had to be some all powerful being. So, with "normal" science getting nowhere, I decided to tackle it in reverse - reading the bible to find a contradiction somewhere. Again, no contradictions, only things that made sense. Well, it was around then I came to the conclusion...
@GiantDwarf01, (cont.) that maybe, just maybe, God is real. Though I wasn't sure if I fully believed it because I was still struggling with the idea of being handicapped when there was an all powerful God. Eventually, I was asked to share my story at a handicapped thing for teens. I did, and it went alright, nothing major. Until afterwards, that is. After, tons of people, normal and handicapped, came up and said they were super moved and crap by it - and I know I sucked. I realized that what I might prefer (not being handicapped) may not be how I can best help people. Sappy I know, and again, it didn't fully hit for me. Well, last year, it did. I found out I had cancer. Completely unrelated to my current situation. A one in a million chance. Well, how do you think I took it? Really well actually. Without realizing it, my life and my lukewarm belief prepared me for it in a way I never imagined - I didn't really mind. At all. It's weird, but I never was scared for my life, I wasn't....
@GiantDwarf01, (cont. 2) concerned. I was ready. So I went through chemo, surgery all that jazz, and throughout it all, even though it sucked (lots of barfing, letmme tell ya), in the end, it was a just an interesting chapter in my life. No harm done (well, my arm is still weak, but hey). Even though cancer is one of the worst things a person can go through, it really wasn't that big a deal personally (not to take away how bad it is, because it is). And for some weird reason, when I talked to people who are going through something, for whatever reason , they're inspired. And I know it's not me- I literally say "It sucked, but it went alright" or something along those lines. I barely even mention God or anything, I just don't hide it, and somehow, it helps. So what I'm saying is - and it's not about me at all - is that even though crap happens, it can lead to good for more people. And that's what made it click for me. That the lack of disproof, plus the small acts I've seen in my life..
@GiantDwarf01, (cont. 4) plus the way everything fits, plus my own personal experiences, plus a dash of faith, all add up "there is a God" being true.
@GiantDwarf01, but again, I'm not trying to pursuade you that he does or doesn't exist, that's your own business. I'm jaunt trying to show you that, just because you don't believe it, and you haven't seen proof, doesn't mean that it's stupid or delusional for other to believe in something. That's all, man.
@GiantDwarf01, Hi. Not trying to get in an argument at all but a couple months ago scientists found background radiation from the big bang. You should check it out, it's pretty neat! Whether it's made by a God or not I dunno. Just wanted to share that fact.
@Charlemagne, you mean CMB? Yeah it's pretty cool. Technically it's from the Recombination era, which was about 400,000 years after the Big Bang, theoretically, but yeah. It's cool.
Because of all the arguments here - I'd just like to *try* and clear this up. 1) Context is important - for anything. Not just the bible, but many historical writings need to be put into context to be understood. 2) In the bible, specially, most of the Old Testament was written in a time where punishments were very harsh. I mean, they couldn't really make big, good prisons back then, right? That and the culture was very different from today's, especially today's USA culture. 3) And this is more for the Christian bible, Old Testament is more history, whereas the New Testament is more guiding and the "rules" we go by now - and even then the so called "rules" all pretty much fall under this very simple idea: Love God. Love People.
@GiantDwarf01, You are so correct!
@GiantDwarf01, Old Testament is history? What are you on?
@Cpzombie, if I even get into a logic religion argument, I'm tagging you lol. You can argue even better than me!
@Cpzombie, All of it is a historical document. Some parts might be personal writings - such as Psalms, which was written by King David - but it's still history in the same way writings by Socrates or others are considered important historical documents. Also, if you take into account the symoblicism some writers used, many events have happened many historians say - though admittedly, it's much easier to prove the events in the New Testament, due to time. Regardless, it's also a history about how the belief for many different belief systems began - Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and so on. So it's history in that context as well.
I still enjoy exodus 21:20-21, but I totally agree with like Ezekial 23:20
I think a great many Christians would be embarrassed to see their faith explained as poorly as it is in many of the comments here... I certainly am.
Weird. I always thought Mike Wazowski was Jewish...
@LeShook, with a last name like Wazoski, he probably is
Could someone explain.
@Original Commentor, I think it has something to do with people who use bible verses out of context.
Put Justin beiber back where he came from or so help me!!
Put that fandom back where it came from, or so help me
@Cynical Pancakes, why don't I ever get hash tagged? 😭
@Cpzombie, I gotchu fam
Oh boy. *grabs nachos*
Hope everyone else sang this