I'm all for people being allowed to own guns (in Mexico people aren't really allowed to own guns and cartels control a lot of land because of it). But I think that some people shouldn't be allowed to purchase or own guns, and that some guns shouldn't be allowed to be sold to the general public. That's common sense gun control right?
@D0N RAM0N, common sense isnt common sense with how shít our government is atm
@D0N RAM0N, From what I understand, the large majority in the US are for universal background checks (especially since a decent sized portion of gun sales use a loophole to avoid background checks). Politicians bought by the NRA shoot those motions down. From what I understand they have tried to pass regulations that prevent people on the FBI terrorism watch list from buying guns, because those people have a 91% success rate at purchasing said guns. Politicians bought by the NRA shoot those motions down. From what I understand convicted felons can't purchase guns...unless they buy them online with no background checks. There are gun issues in the US, but banning guns isn't the solution most rational people put forward, regulation is. But deciding ahead of time that anything we try to regulate them isn't going to work so we shouldn't bother is self defeating and may actually ignore something that could make things better.
@D0N RAM0N, some people shouldn't. People that aren't trained and don't know how to use one properly. But you can't tell that someone 5 years down the line will go nuts and kill everyone. And many guns are more difficult to obtain than others. An automatic for example, I am unable to get legally right now. It's also illegal to kill people but that happens all the time. Just because of the new rule doesn't mean criminals will follow it.
@Richard Cypher, yeah, it doesn't. But, it would make it harder for them to obtain them. What really sucks about a lot of mass shootings is that the shooters bought the guns legally
@D0N RAM0N, the system sucks but whats worse is the culture. We can pass more laws and combat the symptoms sure but whats causing these mass shootings? Gun laws have only become stricter over time but yet these shootings are becoming more and more common so obviously we are missing some underlying cultural problem that i believe is at the root of all this
@Raped by a lesbian, your gun laws are the exact opposite of strict. America has some of the loosest gun laws and the reality is multiple mass shootings per year.
Look up Canadian gun laws, then look up when the last mass shooting took place in Canada. Do the same for England, and Australia.
The NRA is indirectly responsible for a lot of deaths. It's not "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers", because it's the other guy that gets killed.
@D0N RAM0N, Sadly the NRA is preventing things such as universal background checks and making sure the public doesn't get, y'know, assault weapons. Stuff like auto or semi-auto assault weapons shouldn't be with the public. Now hunting rifles and stuff are their own thing and I'm find with keeping personal sidearms and small guns, just not stuff labeled assault. That label should be an immediate sign that normal people shouldn't have it.
@TheRatMan, And by general public I mean people who aren't trained and lack any sort of license
@TheRatMan, Okay I worded that weirdly, my message hit across right?
@TheRatMan, I think that in order for someone to buy a gun, they should have to pass a background check, and take mandatory classes before they get the gun so they can learn how to handle it properly, that way accidents will be less likely, and for more powerful weapons like assault rifles and automatic weapons, or as the guns class gets higher, the stricter the background and training. If I want to buy a belt fed machine gun, I feel it is my right to do so, however, I should be thoroughly checked and trained to make sure I know what I'm doing and that I'm not crazy, so psych evaluations as well. I like my guns and I'm a history buff, but don't make it so I don't have the chance to get them if I can afford it. Just make it much more strict.
@angrydwarf, Well...machine guns were actually banned in the 80s I believe because they were too dangerous for the public.
@TheRatMan, but if I take training classes for months beforehand, and pass a background and psych evaluation, why can't I get one?
@angrydwarf, I'm just saying that machine guns were banned. Some stuff should just be regulated to military use only. There's certain levels that of weaponry that the public shouldn't have access to.
@D0N RAM0N, it's not about if forks make people fat of not, its about the fact that you're giving forks to fat people. Don't give guns to people who aren't fit to have guns.
@TheRatMan, they were banned, true, yet I can still technically own a Bofors 40mm anti-aircraft gun with a relatively easy to obtain license. Its the largest civilian automatic machine gun in the world. I agree with you that they are dangerous, but they are also a blast to fire and if it's super hard to get one, I will still try, but banning them isn't fun for people like me because then we can't ever get them for ourselves
@D0N RAM0N, That's how it is in Texas
@TheRatMan, What is an assault weapon?
@CriTiKa1, I don't know the specifics of what's in the classification but it's mostly auto or semi-auto weaponry that's not quite as powerful as a belt fed machine gun.
@DrahcirAloer, okay this is just full of holes. For one, only a small portion of gun sales at gun shows don't use a background check. Only firearms sold from a private collection, and even then you are supposed to check each others ID for verification (I know I do when I buy or sell privately, in fact I keep copies of the tennessee state transfer paperwork handy and make people fill it out.) If you have a national FFL license then even at gunshows you have to make people take a background check. Number 2, buying a firearm online DOES NOT circumvent a background check. Any firearm purchased online must be shipped to a federally licenses FFL holder, who then holds the firearm until the purchaser comes to take his background check. Where are you getting all this faulty info?
@DrahcirAloer, When you purchase guns online, you still need to go through a background check. Guns can only be shipped to licensed dealers, you can't get them shipped to your house. So you have to ship it to a dealer, who is then required to in a background check to transfer it over to you. I've bought half a dozen guns online because it's easier to find the stuff you want.
@TheRatMan, An assault rifle is a fully automatic rifle, usually used by the military. If you actually knew about gun laws, you'd know that fully automatic rifles are almost impossible to get for the average gun owner. The cheapest automatic guns you can buy are 30 year old Uzis that cost over $20,000. An automatic AR would cost about as much as a sports car. The reason they're so expensive is because there is a finite number of them in the market. You can only buy an automatic gun if it was manufactured before 1987, or somewhere around there. Semiautomatic guns are not assault weapons, despite what the media says.
@D0N RAM0N, as someone who deals with firearms on a daily basis and is going to school to design them I figured I would throw into the conversation. As far as background checks everyone needs to go through one unless the firearm is passed down in family ( so something from ww2 for example) so buying online or at a show or private sale needs a check otherwise you're looking at jail time. Also I totally agree with classes since we need to focus on training and responsibility, guns can be just as dangerous to the user if they don't know what they are doing and I've seen plenty of people who shouldn't be holding one. As far as what an assault rifle is its honestly unclear since it classifies a military style rifle that has the exact same mechanics as a semi auto sporting rifle or some cases semi auto hunting rifle. Honestly people should learn to say automatic rifle since assault kinda paints a scary name to it and makes people freak out more. Sorry for long post and have a good day :)
@D0N RAM0N, in the US Constitution, it says that we have a right to have guns and other weapons because the founding fathers wanted the people to be able to stand up to the government if it got corrupt or oppressive. So, we shouldn't ban certain guns from all people, we should ban all guns from certain people. And that's it. If certain guns can be taken from everyone now, then it will be extremely easy to slowly take away all guns, leaving an open door for a dictator to come in.
And that isn't the only benefit to allowing guns. If other countries know that the typical US citizen owns a gun, then they will be more reluctant to invade. And that's not just a guess, this has happened in the past. Russia didn't invade us because they knew that everyone had guns, so they'd be fighting everyone, not just the military.
@DrahcirAloer, you can't buy a gun online. It has to be sent to a gun stores after you buy it. Then the gun store you choose has to accept the gun. Then they have to do a back ground check on you when arrive. There is no loop hole. Everyone who buys a gun legally is checked. I'm an American and I own guns including an ar15
@Waffles, that's a very poor analogy that goes against your point. Trying to restrict forks would be fascism. That's going into someone else's life and trying to dictate how they live.
Guns being freely in people's lives gets other people killed. Not the same thing at all.
@angrydwarf, guns aren't supposed to be about fun.
You (and people like you), are being given a choice between fun and safety and you're picking fun. It's irresponsible and immature.
@MrStripebear, you get that the government has drones, right?
If the people had to rise up against the government in today's day and age, even with these assault weapons, you guys would get slaughtered.
@I Are Lebo, That's not the point though. Yes, just about everyone would need to be against the government in order to win, but if the guns are taken away then there is no way that they could. The first thing a dictator will do is take away the guns, claiming that it's for the safety of the people. And that's because without guns, you aren't a threat. The second Amendment is in there to protect us from militaristic dictators taking over the country and making everyone miserable. The founding fathers wanted everyone to have the same Weaponry has the military, so that if necessary they could stand up to the government.
@MrStripebear, I understand that, but you guys need to understand something.
If you match the police in firepower, then they cannot keep you safe from each other.
It's one or the other. You cannot have both. You cannot all be armed, and also have a low crime rate. It doesn't work. You cannot be capable of overthrowing your government, and also have your government be able to keep law 100% of the time.
The incident in Orlando was inevitable. The means have always been there, all it took was motive.
@I Are Lebo, did I ever say I was going to do something unsafe or irresponsible? I said I would prefer if it took strict background and psych tests to get guns, I'm not being irresponsible, that would be the people who leave their guns loaded in a drawer or something. I would never let anyone handle any of my guns unless I knew for fact they knew what they were doing or I was there to supervise them, and they wouldn't be loaded unless we were literally seconds from using them at a range. You can be responsible with guns, taking them away because they are unsafe applies to many things, not just guns, and it never works
@Raped by a lesbian, the most common sense I've seen on this app. You have earned my respect.
@I Are Lebo, look up Honduras
@TheRatMan, assault weapons refers to fully automatic rifles, the AR, in AR-15 stands for armalite rifle, they are no more dangerous than a typical hunting rifle, they are just intended for use between 25-500yards instead of up to 1000yards like hunting rifles.
@angrydwarf, you basically said you were disappointed that they made it harder for you to get "the largest civilian automatic machine gun in the world." You also said that "they are a blast to fire" and that it "isn't fun" if you can't get one.
You're disappointed because you can't play with a death dealing device.
I get that you are safe about its usage. But it's not a toy. It's a machine designed to kill. Find your fun somewhere else, or don't be surprised when someone uses the device for its intended purpose.
Honestly, it's the same as drug laws. Cocaine and heroin and all the other drugs can't be legal for the few who would use them responsibly, because of the ones who don't use it responsibly. Guns need to be restricted, because a lot of people don't use them responsibly. That's how laws and a country works. You can only go as fast as your slowest members.
@I Are Lebo, Switzerland vs. Honduras.
Switzerland virtually everyone has a gun and os well-trained in its usage, lowest crime rate in the world.
Honduras, guns are illegal. Highest murder rate in the world. Statistics are a B!tch aren't they.
@I Are Lebo, I don't know about slaughtered. I know how to make an EMP directional pulse weapon out of a microwave and Tin-Foil. It would shoot down a helicopter.
@D0N RAM0N, absolutely.
@Raped by a lesbian, our country is shjt, according to forensic studies we are under more constant stress in the modern Era than even our ancestors in the stone age. Also our country is shjt, and going down the shjtter and it's driving people insane.
@I Are Lebo, but is that the world you want to live in? A nanny state concerned more with safety than freedom? If it is then so be it. I support everyones right to an opinion and yours is certainly founded. I personally am of the mind that we should always put freedom at the forefront. Obviously some will misuse this and cause harm but we all die, we all suffer, the world is dark and horrible, i want to be free and unbound by a state so concerned with the fleeting and futile idea of safety and live my short life as I see fit, not how someone else does
@Ser Waffle Knight, we are. Cultures are changing in a way unseen ever in history. The world we see today is in a liminal period and while we are no strangers to violence in the past we are experiencing it in new and more personal ways that I believe are the result of this unnatural world we have constructed
@I Are Lebo, restrict them fine, remove them no. All I want is to be able to get them, not matter what procedure it requires, but to never have a chance regardless of if I get trained like someone in the military? That doesn't sound like my right to bear arms, that sounds like my right to bear certain, safe, arms. I like big guns, but I'm not crazy
@Niam Leeson, yeah, statistics are a bitch. Especially when you take the most extreme cases and use them as a standard. That's called selection bias. And it makes your results invalid.
@Fun Facts 101, would it shoot down a missile fired from a drone coming at you at the speed of sound?
@I Are Lebo, no but it would completely shut down the drones piloting system and send it crashing into the ground where it will be available for scavenging.
@Raped by a lesbian, I get that. I'm all for freedom. But what really upsets me is the same people arguing for less gun control are the same people arguing against abortion and gay marriage. Freedom isn't having everyone do what YOU want.
@angrydwarf, I get it, but that's the problem. Crazy people don't know they're crazy.
Your choices are nobody has then big guns, or both the sane and the crazy have the big guns. There's no way to prevent some of the population from having them.
@Fun Facts 101, what's the range on this home made weapon of yours?
Honestly, it doesn't much matter. If someone sends a military drone after you, specifically, you'll be dead before you even know you're in danger.
@I Are Lebo, unless you create an electromagnetic radar out of a tinkered boat radar used to find old metal ships. The range is fairly a couple thousand feet if not more depending on the voltage and amount of microwaves you have.
@I Are Lebo, but your point was that it wasn't possible. I proved you wrong. It's okay you're butthurt I get it, I uses to be wrong a lot too. You'll learn.
@I Are Lebo, I know that, but as it has been proven before, its very easy to get guns illegally, and most shootings are with semi automatic weapons. The point is if you ban certain guns, people will still use the ones available or get the ones that aren't illegally, banning them entirely would just cause more chaos in poorer neighborhoods because the gang bangers and drug dealers would still be able to get them. All I want is to make it harder for normal people to get them, psych evaluation, strict background checks, and mandatory training classes ranging from basic handgun use to full metal jacket level control and safety classes for bigger guns. And if a crazy person gets through all that to get a gun, he is either a mass murderer who plans alot ahead or isn't crazy.
@I Are Lebo, you can also make your own large automatic weapons using a powerful air composer and some large scrap metal. It's big, but you can mount it. You can make the large bullets out of just about anything as well as long as you have scrap metal to use. I even have a friend who knows how to make hydrogen bombs. Do you know how easy it is to make crystallized lye, a component of some really powerful explosives? Animal fat and tree ash. A single citizen with good know-how could lead a powerful and efficient rebellion. And you can't assume the government will send out their blackbird top secret automatons to kill their own citizens. They'll most likely just try to detain if anything.
@DrahcirAloer, Well, first off the FBI "watch list" isn't due process - you can be put on it for any reason and have no means of appealing it, and may not have even done anything wrong, you just strike them as suspicious. Second, you can't buy a gun online without a background check- Try it. They are required by federal law to ship it to a local gun dealer to do a background check. I get SO SICK of hearing these blatant lies repeated.
@D0N RAM0N, how are you going to regulate the sales of person to person. Should i have to do a personal backroind check on anyone who responds to my add? How do you even do backround checks. Its easy as you make it seem. Alot of mainstream civilians own guns and sell them who lack the recources to backround check everyone who wants to buy.
@Fun Facts 101, a couple thousand feet is nothing. They have missiles that travel thousands of feet per second. After you shoot down the first drone, the second will kill you. Best case scenario, you'll have a second to go "oh shït".
Don't delude yourself. If you fight the government, you'll lose.
@Niam Leeson, whose butt hurt? You proved nothing.
I'm not upset by your ignorance. I just don't care for it.
@I Are Lebo, right right.. Because IsIs is so advanced with their sand huts. That's why we haven't beat them yet, right?
@angrydwarf, well, yeah. That's what I'm arguing for, too. Ban automatic assault weapons, increase regulation on the rest.
I think you guys are nuts for liking guns, but that's freedom. Just because I'm uncomfortable with it doesn't make it bad, nor does it mean it should go away.
@Fun Facts 101, I guarantee you if the government seriously thought a citizen was making a hydrogen bomb, that person would be very unlikely to live to see trial. It's too risky to take such a person alive.
@DrahcirAloer, I love premature comments. Anyway, even firearms purchased online require a background check at a FFL. Literally the only way to get a firearm without that is via private sale or straw purchase, where someone else buys it for somebody that can't pass the check. Or theft.
@I Are Lebo, it's not like I would post "my Buddie is making a bomb lol #rebel" on Facebook. How would they even know what we were building or where we are?
@D0N RAM0N, that's LITERALLY how US gun laws are. High cal grenade launchers and LMGs and other military grade arms are always illegal and your gun permit is instantly revoked if you fail a psychological evaluation or commit a felony (regardless if it was gun related or not)
@Fun Facts 101, search algorithms that flag purchases of certain materials over a certain amount.
It's a sacrifice of privacy in exchange for safety.
Go ahead, try buying a hundred pounds of fertilizer. Even if you buy it from 5 different stores. You're going to be investigated.
@angrydwarf, also, part of the argument is just silly. "It's easy to get guns illegally so there's not point making it illegal" is like saying why bother making cocaine illegal? People will just get it anyway.
@I Are Lebo, you act like during a civil war things will be all honkey doodle dandy. Many places will be off the grid and won't use that. Thermite burns hotter than almost any other chemical reaction and you can get that stuff at a paint store on a child's allowance. Fertilizer? What am I an idiot? I just told you crystallized lye only takes animal fat and wood ash, and can be used to make TNT. We're not all connected as you think. The government is not as all powerful as it seems, disregarding your apparent faith in it.
@Fun Facts 101, then I am misrepresenting myself. I think with the proper know how, you absolutely could make a bomb and have the government have no idea until it detonated.
I'm just saying, that stuff won't win you such a civil war unless the government was as divided as the populace.
@I Are Lebo, the government isn't as collected as they try to make us believe.
@Fun Facts 101, on that, I completely agree
@TheRatMan, Stop talking about "assault weapons". There is no such thing as an "assault weapon". An assault weapon is any weapon the police decide looks scary. Fvcking rediculous.
@DrahcirAloer, or worked well in Australia. We got rid of a whole range of guns. Worked really well.
@I Are Lebo, and tanks and fighter jets and assault helicopters and missiles and bombs. But these tards with their rifles will win. God these nutters make me laugh. It's like they think it would be a gun fight.
@MrStripebear, in Australia the government took away automatic and semi automatic guns and pistols from the public. Amazingly we still live in a free democratic nation. You know what we don't have? Mass shootings. Wow! Who would think that if you took away guns with high capacity and quick firing less people would die.
@TheMonkeyGod, The guns are not the cause of mass shootings. The majority of the shootings that happen in the USA nowadays (this is not based on data, only in observation, I could be completely wrong here) are in schools. The reason for this is that kids can no longer be physically violent, so the typical bullying process involves one student being tormented through words, whether in person or on the Internet. Anger and hatred builds up towards other students. Back when my parents were in school, if you wanted someone to stop bullying you, you could punch them in the face, and then down the rode probably end up friends, because the bullying would have stopped. Back to modern times, the punishments are so severe for something like this nowadays that the anger builds up, and is taken out in one of three ways.
1) The are able to simply let it go
2) They become so traumatized that they kill themselves
Or 3) They decide to kill a bunch of people.
So don't blame the guns. It's not them.
@MrStripebear, oh my sides have gone into orbit. There is only do much laughing a person can do. I couldn't breathe man.
Guns are not the cause of mass shootings? Pretty fvcking sure it's not knives man.
And from observations here, we've had none since the ban... so it could be guns are part of it.
@TheMonkeyGod, You do know what a cause is right? I'm order for something to be a cause of a given effect, the effect must come directly from it. If the guns are the cause, then that means that people are doing these mass shootings because of the guns. Just like someone over eats because of forks. Or a cat scratches you because of claws.
@TheMonkeyGod, it's the same in Canada. People here do still sometimes get their hands on guns. We have shootings here, several times a year.
But you know what we don't have? Mass shootings.
I've actually heard Americans be like "Canadian news reports EVERY murder? That's cute." Which horrifies me. How can you be THAT complacent that the fact that you have so many murders that they can't all be reported, and have that not bother you?! It's the morons think of a high murder rate as a badge of honor or something!
@MrStripebear, you're an idiot.
For two reasons.
1. Saying guns are not responsible for shootings is like saying knives aren't responsible for stabbings. Which is what you'd have without guns. A stab wound is usually more survivable.
2. In absolutely none of the cases of school shootings are the perpetrators the bullies. It's ALWAYS the victims (except when mental illness is involved, which is a different matter).
Get your facts straight.
@MrStripebear, and for the record, you're mixing up cause and causation. Guns are responsible for shootings, not for violence. Violence would happen anyway, shootings wouldn't.
@I Are Lebo, Looking at the second point of your comment, I can't help but realize that I was in fact referring to the students being bullied. Believe it or not, I do not think that a bully will shoot up a school because they are a bully.
@I Are Lebo,
Cause: a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.
Causation: The act of causing something to occur
@I Are Lebo, From my point of view, a gun, in fact, has not caused someone to get shot. It is a means of shooting someone. If it caused someone to get shot, then the person pulling the trigger killed them because of the gun.
@MrStripebear, it's not that a gun caused someone to get shot. They got shot because the person who wished them harm had a gun.
It's cause, not causation. Having a gun gave rise to a shooting. The gun didn't in itself cause the shooting.
@MrStripebear, to put it another way. Video games don't cause violence due to raised aggression, but they CAN be claimed to contribute to lowered health lifestyle due to increased amounts of time spent mostly motionless.
@I Are Lebo, Yes, by that logic we shouldn't have guns. And it works out for some countries. But, by that same logic, we should have guns. Because no defense makes it easier for a dictator to come to power, just like having a gun makes it easier to kill someone. But, most of the time, people who own guns don't go around shooting people for no good reason. So, why ban certain guns from all people instead of all guns from certain people? This would in fact make both sides of the argument happy. I'm all for gun control, I just don't believe that limiting the guns fit everyone is the way to do it.
@I Are Lebo, I agree with your most recent comment, but I don't see the relevance.
@MrStripebear, there is one, and only one argument for owning a gun. And it's "I like guns".
Having a gun will not defend you against a dictator rising to power. That's what laws are for. That's why the police force and the government are separate entities. I've seen this argument a bunch of times and it is self delusion at its finest. The second amendment is obsolete because the weapons it allows civilians to own are so inferior to the weaponry of the military, the very idea of pulling off a coup is laughable.
Do you want to self police? Because that's what it sounds like the argument is. And let me tell you, any history buff will know that does NOT work.
@MrStripebear, "by that same logic, we should have guns. Because no defense makes it easier for a dictator to come to power, just like having a gun makes it easier to kill someone."
That's why it's relevant. Having a gun will in no way protect you against the government. Not anymore. If a corrupt government official comes to your front door and shows you a piece of paper saying he owns your land now, you pointing a gun at him, shooting him, or even just threatening him with it will not help you. At all. It will only make things worse.
@I Are Lebo, If only we had a case in history where citizens owning guns stood up to an oppressive force that overpowered them. Oh well. By the way, do you know how the USA became liberated from British rule? Because from what I hear, the British soldiers in the colonies outnumbered and outgunned the colonists. I guess we'll never know. It's a shame too. I mean, what if that was a case where a group of people got together as a self police force, or a militia, or anything of that nature?
@I Are Lebo, I was referring to your piece on video games when I said I didn't understand the relevance, I should have been more clear, sorry.
@MrStripebear, you're talking about organizing a militia against an opponent with the capability of bombing an enemy from halfway around the world.
This is what I said about self delusion at its finest. Technology has changed a LOT since then. You take your loosely organized, poorly trained militia armed with rifles and shotguns against the Army, or even the SWAT. You'll get decimated.
Look at how 'well' the Afghans and Iraqis did against the army. They were about as well trained as you, and about as well armed as you. For every soldier you managed to kill, you'd lose dozens, and they outnumber you.
It's pure fantasy to think you'd have the slightest chance of overthrowing the military.
@MrStripebear, also, only someone who knows they have no leg to stand on in an argument resorts to sarcasm.
@I Are Lebo, So, the only reason why I have my opinion is because I want guns, according to you. From what I see, the reason why you don't care is because you see a challenge and just give in to whatever comes your way. Worry not, Big Brother will handle all of your troubles for you.
@MrStripebear, are you being intentionally thick? I'm seriously asking.
I'm neither pro or anti government. I don't care. But don't lie to yourself that your guns are there to protect you. It's delusional because it's not accurate. Do you know how many mass shooters have been stopped because one of their would be victims, or even a bystander, had a gun and shot them? None. It has never happened.
And the argument over having a gun to stop another country from invading or from your own country from being taken over is ludicrous. This is a tale told over and over again throughout history. Armed and untrained civilians versus armed and trained invader equals a lot of dead civilians. Having a gun in a hostile situation doesn't make you a hero, it makes you a high priority target.
Be realistic. And for the record, when I said the only argument for having guns, I meant the only GOOD argument for having guns.
@I Are Lebo, I can tell you the exact reason why bystanders don't shoot the people with guns. Do you know what all schools have in common? Every single one is a gun free zone. So, tell me, how exactly could a teacher or administrator or student, keep in mind, they are without a gun, shoot someone?
@MrStripebear, shootings happen in more places than just schools. You know that, right?
@I Are Lebo, Yes I do know that, that was just one example. If you were to ask everyone present at the Orlando shooting if they had a gun on them at the time, how many do you think would say yes? This applies to almost every single shooting. They weren't stopped by a bystander with a gun, because said bystander didn't have one. Whether they didn't have one on them, or they didn't own a gun, I don't know. But mass shootings never occur in a place where the majority of people present have guns. These shooters might be crazy, but they aren't stupid.
@MrStripebear, actually, those types of shootings do happen. They often end up recorded in the Darwin Awards. There have been many cases of people trying to rob gun stores, for example.
My point is, owning a gun does not help to protect you because in 99% of situations, when you need it the most you won't have it with you.
Guns are also terrible for home defence for civilians. If you keep it handy, the chances of you (or more likely your kids) accidentally shooting you or another family member is high. If you keep it in a safe, then if you REALLY need it, you won't have the time to retrieve it.
I am a practical person. There is no practical reason for a civilian to own a gun.
@DrahcirAloer, a lot of the information you are spewing is false. No matter what when you buy a gun you will have to get a fbi background check. The only exception is with private gun sales. You can order guns online, but they can only be shipped to a business that has a federal firearms license (FFL) and when you go there to pick up the weapon you ordered online, they call you in for the fbi background check. I'd really love to know where you get the information "a decent sized portion of gun sales is from a loophole" there is no loophole. It was made up by the media. I've purchased 4 guns from 3 separate gun shows from 4 separate vendors and each and every time I had to get an fbi background check.
@TheRatMan, the 2nd amendment wasn't put in the Constitution so we could hunt. It was put in the Constitution so we could protect our rights as free citizens. How can I protect myself from enemies, foreign and domestic, if I can't have the correct tools to defend myself.
@I Are Lebo, Two things,
1) It doesn't matter how strong an opinion is, you most likely won't change the other side, and I'll only be 17 this voting season, so I can't make a difference anyways, at least not this year.
2) Seeing that I don't have a good response to your last comment, that is most likely the end of this debate, unless you decide to comment further, in which case I will most likely respond.
I guess since neither of us managed to change the opinion of the other, this debate has ended in somewhat of a draw. You did get in the last good comment, so I guess that tips the scale to your end.
Have a good rest of your life sir Lebo, it's been a pleasure debating with you.
@angrydwarf, you should get more educated on the topic before you post. So much ignorance coming from people uneducated with firearms. So you speak of "powerful assault weapons" the AR-15 rifle is far from powerful compared to a common hunting rifle. The .223 cartridge that the ar-15 shoots is actually banned from hunting big game in some states because it lacks the power to humanely kill a deer. Now let's get started on fully automatic weapons... Yes, they are available to the public, but it's not that easy. An individual must have an established firearm trust and once they find a gun to purchase, the gun must have been manufactured before 1964 (not 100% sure on the date) to be available for purchase on the civilian Market. Next step. Apply for a tax stamp with the ATF. You must sent a passport photo as well as fingerprint cards to the atf along with all the information about the firearm you are purchasing. After running a serious background check you will be approved 6 months later.
@angrydwarf, a good machine gun on the civilian marketplace can cost anywhere from $20,000 - $100,000 so it's not that easy to get.
@CriTiKa1, an assault weapon is a word the media uses to make a simple firearm sound scary so they can push their gun control agenda a attempt another failed assault weapons ban just like the Clinton administration.
@MrStripebear, same to you Mr Bear. I did enjoy this debate. It had a lot of ups and downs.
I don't think "winning" an argument matters. And very, very few debates or arguments end up changing anyone's opinion, at least not right away. It's all about seeing other peoples points of view to grow as a person.
For the record, I do agree with the spirit of the second amendment. The populace SHOULD have a means of fighting back against a tyrannical government or a foreign invader that would be more effective than protesting. My only issue with the argument is that it won't work anymore. It's a great idea, but one that's poorly implemented. I mean, hell, if war broke out in Canada and they instituted a draft, my current plan is to either flee the country or go live in the woods until everything blows over. Not much of a contingency plan. But because of the near impossibility of legally getting a gun here, and the futility of fighting back against gun wielders with a knife, that's all I got.
@MrStripebear, you're confusing terms. That's fine. A gun is the cause of a shooting. It is not the instigator of the incident.
The causation, as correctly stated by I Are Lebo, it's what instigated the event. What caused the mass death was most certainly the gun.
As for your dictator argument... you are not that stupid. Many nations have strong gun law and are not governed by dictators, that is the argument of morons. Be better than that.
@MrStripebear, oh dear, you used the big brother argument and I'll state with some confidence you've not read 1984.
@MrStripebear, you're 16... ahhh to be that young again and know everything. To argue with confidence with those older who have seen more and have a deeper understanding and ignore it because my plucky confidence out weighs their knowing.
@Grizzly Wintergreen, why does anyone need an automatic or even semi automatic rifle? Are you that crap at hunting? You should give up.
@TheMonkeyGod, the 2nd amendment wasn't put in the Constitution so I could go hunting. Plus not many civilians own automatic weapons. See my other post for those details. I need a semi automatic weapons because it is a modern weapon. I use mine for many things. I hunt with it, I shoot for sport and fun, and train with it so I can defend myself, my family, and my home. I will not rely on another man to do my duties of protecting my family. I'm a sheepdog, I protect the flock from wolves.
@Grizzly Wintergreen, you're an idiot.
The idea of the second amendment is redundant. How will your pea shooter do against a military helicopter firing an air to surface missile? Have a nice fiery death son. Modern warfare makes that argument so ridiculous I can't believe people resort to it.
You seem to think further that a criminal will leave a calling card or announce their arrival. What makes you think you'll get the shot off first?
Each time you seem to underestimate your opponent. Less so in your second argument. But in your first... dear god, you seen to have no clue as to what weapons military use. Also you seem to think your government is your greatest enemy... guess you don't know much about world politics.
@TheMonkeyGod, I'm am idiot for wanting to protect my family. Hmm. Weird. I wasn't directly speaking about taking on the US military, but realistically if there was a situation where civil war broke out or US citizens were fighting the military I can GUARANTEE that the majority of US soldiers would abandon post and fight with the civilians. Criminals can attack at any moment, that is why I train with my weapons. I train to be better prepared. Where have I stated anything about my government being my greatest enemy? You are putting words into my mouth to further your argument.... Let's just say I am up against a much stronger well prepared enemy. I would rather die defending my family than huddled in a corned waiting for the police or whomever to come rescue me. Look this country was founded on diversity and by people with varying opinions and it's great that everyone doesn't agree on everything. But just because you think I shouldn't have a gun doesn't mean I shouldn't have it.
@TheMonkeyGod, not only does he not understand his own arguments, but he (and others like him) seek to do the job of the police without any of the training or responsibility.
"I'm a sheepdog, I protect the flock from wolves." Yeah, more like the pug that barks at strangers.
@Grizzly Wintergreen, where do you store your guns? Do you keep them loaded in your shelf or do you keep them safely locked away?
If the former, you are FAR more likely to accidentally shoot yourself or a loved one, or have them accidentally shoot themselves and/or you, than you are to even be faced with a home invader. The risk of suicide by gun (whether you or a family member) is also quite high.
If the latter, and you store your gun safely, then in the instance of a home invader, you won't have the time to get the gun out in the first place.
It's a ridiculous, self serving argument. You having and using a gun is more likely to get YOU killed than anyone else.
@Grizzly Wintergreen, also, "criminals can attack at any moment", is an attitude that blends the worst aspects of stupidly and paranoia. I can pretty much guarantee that there isn't a line up of thugs and hoodlums waiting to get at you.
How Americans can with one breath claim to live in the greatest country in the world and with the next breath talk about having to constantly keep themselves safe from the criminal horde is beyond me.
In the greatest country on earth, you would be safe enough to not need a death dealer to feel comfortable.
@TheMonkeyGod, I've read both the abridged and unabridged versions, and I've seen the movie. It's probably one of the best books I've ever read.
@MrStripebear, many folk haven't but claim they have. Good work.
@TheMonkeyGod, Then quiz me on it or something instead of assuming that I haven't read it simply because I don't agree with you on this issue, and you want my side to seem as stupid as possible
@MrStripebear, I'm not. I said good work and was pointing out why initially suspicious. Relax
@TheMonkeyGod, Sorry, you know how the Internet can be. It's hard to tell how someone means a certain thing.
@I Are Lebo, all of my guns but my every day carry pistol stay locked in my safe. I currently just live with my girlfriend who is more than competent with a gun. I grew up around guns. Literally everyone I know has a gun. No one has shot themselves. I'm far from paranoid. I live in a city that is very dangerous and has a high violent crime rate with a poor police force with a pitiful response time. Police are only required 40 hours or firearms training a year which isn't much at all. I shoot 40 hour every two months. I've taken defensive handgun courses put on by ex military guys with police swat officers to my left and a soccer mom to my right and I learned many great skills that I will probably never need to use. But if someday I ever need to use them I will be prepared. I've also taken to necessary classes to get my concealed carry permit.
@MrStripebear, all good buddy
@TheMonkeyGod, The biggest point is that the cities in FVCKING AMERICA with the strictest laws have the highest crime rates. It has nothing to do with the number of guns and everything to do with the culture. Plano, TX with the 9 lowest crime rate has a massive gun culture, while democratic run Flint, MI has the 18th highest crime rate. More guns does not equal more violence. What works outside the US cannot be applied to us so mind your own gd business and butt the f out of our country's policies. Every Non-american mf on here is an expert on how we should run out country apparently. Just stfu and mind your own gd business. Not an American? Don't fvcking worry about it
@Niam Leeson, hey go fvck yourself. I'm allowed an opinion and can freely share it. Have a shyt day. Cvnt.
@TheMonkeyGod, take your mf sh!tty opinions and shove em up your ass you cvnt
@Niam Leeson, oh and you could do with fact checking. Because I'm not from your country and don't believe fox media and can do independent research I looked up who runs each state in the USA and then checked the states with the highest crime rates. Our of the top 5, top 2 most violent are republican, next 2 Democrat, last republican. I then decided to be fair and check the top 15. 10 out of the 15 are run by your dear republican party and have bad gun control. Most are long held republican areas.
Sadly many Americans like you don't seem to get that what your nation does has an effect on other nations. That's why other nations care. You are vicariously fvcking our countries.
Again many of you are to fvcking stupid to get this...
@TheMonkeyGod, you should do more research fvcktard, because thats horse sh!t. Maybe they are republican governed but most of the individual CITIES are democrat run. Detroit being the worst example. Dem run since the 60's and going downhill more and more. Don't bother replying I don't have time for fvcking non-americans thinking they know sh!t about the US. So fvck off. 🖕🏻
@I Are Lebo, I don't need a cop to keep me safe. Never have never will.
@Niam Leeson, so despite the governor of each state being the highest office in the state with the most power, overseeing the laws, having ultimate control of policing, state budgets etc etc, capacity to veto state law etc etc, it's the less powerful mayor who is to blame... righteo champ.
You mate are a prime example of why so many people dislike your country. You think that someone had to live there to understand it...
Funny though. You have no idea if I've ever lived there. Or if it's my nation of birth... no idea of anything about me really. But like most morons you'll make wild assumptions and keep informing yourself with information that only supports your view while rejecting facts.
@TheMonkeyGod, I ain't your mate bitch, you also don't have a fvcking clue what you're talking about. Go fvck a kangaroo jackass
@fuddruckers, if you truly believe that, then you are the person that other people needs the police to keep THEM safe from.
@Niam Leeson, so matey, your going to say the governor isn't the highest office in each state with the above described powers... Yeah. Righteo buddy.
@Grizzly Wintergreen, did you know that your 80% more likely to use a gun on yourself than on another person? Statistically speaking. Not you personally. You'll never have a really bad day, have a few drinks, fall into dark thoughts, see no way out and blow your brains out. You're not that person. Neither were the majority of people who spray paint their walls with their brains.
Before you yap on about other methods of suicide all the research shows that most back out because other methods that longer and give you time to think more. Guns are horribly quick and effective. That's facts.
@Grizzly Wintergreen, just one other question. If your held up at gun point, would you reach for your weapon?
@TheMonkeyGod, I told you I was done, i'm cleaning one of my many many firearms which I legally bought for my own personal reasons, I can't hear you over the sound of all this 2nd amendment freedom. And no you still don't have a fvcking clue about what you're talking about. City laws can and do override state laws sometimes I know this for a fact since local laws prohibit a certain law that was put into effect last year. So cya, for real this time. 🖕🏻
@Niam Leeson, have fun. Weather here is to crap to do any hunting. Maybe in a couple of weeks. Oh yeah, we can buy guns here. You fvcktards don't seem to know this. We just have sensible restrictions and stronger licensing laws.
Oh and the second amendment really is redundant. Seriously. It needs to be updated.
@TheMonkeyGod, it all depends on the situation. If he wants my wallet or my truck. He can have it. If I believe my life is truly threatened I will use my best judgement to decide when and how I will deploy my weapon. I train with a timer at the range and I wish I was a faster shot, but I'm getting faster and more precise.
@I Are Lebo, lol I work with cops daily yo. I am the one you call for help.
@I Are Lebo, also the Supreme Court ruled today that cops don't have a duty to protect you. I'm not kidding
@I Are Lebo, I also can't imagine what life must be being such a whimp. Seriously, you wait for the police to show up? We tell people don't wait. Defend ourselves. 10 minutes out is average response time. 10 minutes in that time last week I saw a 5 year old murdered....so ya your argument is invalid.
@Grizzly Wintergreen, sensible answer.
I'll add the reason so many other people from other countries get involved is two part. The actions of America influence other nations, and this worries us at times.
The other reason is most people like you guys. We see so much tragedy coming from your nation and it saddens us. In Australia we know a slight change to the law made a huge difference. No mass shootings, from one a year to zero. Massive drop in gun related suicide and suicide in general. Massive drop in gun violence generally. We saw the effects and it was positive.
Many seem to think we can't own guns. We can. We have to justify ownership, comply with strong laws around storage etc, pass safety exams and a massive background check that takes about a month, and the type of guns we can purchase are limited. No auto or semi auto. No pistols, unless you are a cop, sports shooter (gun must be keep at the firing range), or a security guard with special clearances. Hard to get.
@TheMonkeyGod, I'm glad your laws work for you and you are happy with them. And I'm happy with my firearm ownership and my laws here. We have certain states that have extremely strict gun laws and they just don't work well.
@I Are Lebo, lastly, tonight I'm going to tuck my kids into bed, give them a kiss, and pray to whatever God you choose or no God that when my 72 hour tour of duty is over that I get to see them again. Imagine what it feels like to not knowing that I may never see them grow up. Imagine what my wife feels when she hears officer down and ems involved. Imagine how they feel knowing that daddy may not come home. Now imagine how much safer we feel knowing that yes the person I'm trying to save may shoot me. They also may save my life. You can't imagine because you live your life safe in a bubble avoiding danger and confrontation around every corner. I can't fathom how that must feel. So known that tonight while you call me a problem know that I'm out there kicking doors and doing the unimaginable for some troll who knows nothing about the deep problems in the country I love. Knowing that my partner who I trust unequivocally with my life is a lesbian and someone may kill her or her partner
@fuddruckers, for simply loving someone else. See Lebo, you can't fathom any of this. I'm going to continue watching the TV with my kids. When you decide to come out of your troll cave and you need an immediate medical intervention to save you life from the diabetes diet I'm sure you have due to your mass amounts of sugar and lies you consume. See I can make blanket statements as well about soemone I know nothing about.
@Niam Leeson, it's idiotic that city overruns state and state overruns federal. It's absolutely MORONIC. It SHOULD be the other way around. That's how you can have a federal law legalizing gay marriage, but have half the states keep it illegal.
Americans have their collective heads so far up their collective asses that they circle around to thinking they know everything.
You guys need to get your shït together. Get it together, put it in a box.
@fuddruckers, the very idea that you consider not taking the law into your hands as "being a wimp" makes me very glad you're not my neighbour.
If you were a cop, you would be a contributing factor towards why some people don't trust cops.
And you're proud of this?! What is wrong with you?
@fuddruckers, you have NO idea where I live, or what my life is like, but the very fact that you belittle someone for living in a safer area than you is mind boggling. I mean it. I'm flabbergasted.
You're also completely wrong.
I do not live in a 'bubble' of safety where I have to rely on the cops to keep me safe. I keep a switchblade on me in case of emergency. I have never had to even reach for it. I love in a province with a fairly low crime rate, not a non existent crime rate. Plus, I'm 6'3", and 260 lbs. If someone targets me for anything, they're going to start at the lethal level, because I appear to be a much larger threat.
And yet, I have never needed a cop to rescue me.
But this attitude that I am somehow lesser for living in an area with lowered crime and relying on the police to DO THEIR JOBS..... It's fücking moronic!
Think whatever you want. It matters little to me. After all, what does a troll know about anything?
Go fück yourself you ignorant asshole.
@fuddruckers, one other thing.
I don't know you. Maybe you do need to have a gun. You need to have a gun because the other guy has a gun. But that guy has a gun because you have a gun. It's completely circular reasoning.
Do yourself a favour and educate yourself a little. Look up how often a police officer in Ontario, Canada dies of a non traffic related incident. Look up how often a member of the EMS (who are not licensed to carry firearms here) are killed on the job. Look up how often a hate crime is committed where the victim dies. And look up how many times a year a private civilian is shot and killed (that last one will be the highest of the list).
If you can look up and post here those statistics and honestly tell me that you think we are doing something wrong with our gun control laws, then I will rethink my stance.
@I Are Lebo, suck a d1ck you piece of of sh1t.
@I Are Lebo, fvck you, you're not American so suck a d!ck and die motherfvcker.🖕🏻
@Niam Leeson, "fvck you, you're not American".
It's attitudes like that which make glad I'm not American. America is a joke, in large part due to people like you. You think you're the greatest country in the world, but in almost every category that matters, you're not even in the top ten. You're arrogant, ignorant, and obnoxious.
And the whole reason why this pisses you off is because you know there's some truth to it.
@fuddruckers, learn to spell you piece of of garbage.
@I Are Lebo, no I care a lot about other countries, just not you you piece of sh!t. Where the fvck do you get off spouting off your bullsh!t telling Americans we are dumb because we live and like things a different way than you. Fvck you you moose fvcking little b!tch keep your nose out of the politics of a country you don't even live in. We don't give two flying fvcks what some asshole from the suck white north thinks.
@Niam Leeson, for the record, I never said Americans are dumb because you live and like things a different way than me.
@I Are Lebo, no you just say our country is a joke and our government is retarded, which it is, but you don't have the right to say that, here we have the freedom to live and die as we see fit, if it were up to me federal government would have next to no power because it has run amok and tries to tell other people what they can and can't do, on both sides. States decide what we want based on culture and on the majority of voters, and if someone doesn't like it they can fvcking move. But I can say that, because I fvcking live here, I don't say sh!t about Canada because I don't fvcking care I don't live there, wouldn't want to either, sounds like a sh!thole to me, but I would never think of belittling it's people just because I don't like the policies of their homeland. I have a lot of Canadian friends, none are nearly as fvcking arrogant as you, never once have I criticized them for liking it there. They all know me as the gun nut I am as well. Point is, you can disagree without being..
@I Are Lebo, an arrogant little cvnt about it. You can take that as my final remark. Come find me when you've lived here a few years then you can fvcking criticize my country you arrogant prick.
@Niam Leeson, couple points in response. Firstly, you're right, I did call America a joke and that was over the line. But I COMPLETELY have the right to say that. I have the right to say anything I want to. I'm a free man. For a country that's super obsessed with Freedom, you're very quick to deny the freedom of others. That's the 'joke' I was referring to. You go on and on about freedom, but then turn around and, for example, take the stance of "I don't care that the government and the people want gay marriage legalized. I think it's bad, therefore you can't do it." That's not freedom, that's oppression.
Secondly, it isn't up to you how much power the government has. An Anarchy (which is the term for the type of government that doesn't interfere at all) is great in theory, terrible in practice. It requires everyone in it to be pretty much perfect, and we aren't perfect. So it's a good thing it's not up to you.
Also, I'm not arrogant. I haven't talked up Canada. It's not perfect here
@I Are Lebo, but I can have an opinion on America without having to be an American.
And if you have a problem with that fact, well, then that's your problem.
@Niam Leeson, also, "shïthole" is a pretty strong word for a country with a better economy, better healthcare, better employment rate, lower incarceration rate, longer lifespans, and lower crime rate than yours.
@I Are Lebo, "better" right. The only thing you fvckers are better at is being arrogant asshats. Fvcking done here. You know nothing of me or my culture. Lastly you're picking and choosing what you want to pick at in my arguments, I said States' rights not no government fvckhead, learn to read.
@Niam Leeson, done here, be a cvnt quietly next time you won't get downvoted as hard. Newsflash most people here disagree with you, hence the downvotes. Be a cvnt elsewhere prick. Cya 🖕🏻
@Niam Leeson, like I give a shït about arbitrary rankings on a free to use app.
I never said no government, any. I said no government interference.
I'm sure you're right that a lot of people disagree with me. I'm okay with that. Unlike you, I can still respect someone who has a different point of view than myself.
Also, again, Canadians aren't generally arrogant, and I haven't said much that was (knowingly) arrogant.
Do you know why I'm so critical of modern day America? Because you're capable of so much more. It's disappointing, because your country absolutely has the potential to be the greatest country on earth. But there's a bunch of things you need to do as a whole, and little of it is likely to happen.
@Niam Leeson, firstly, your education system needs to be completely overhauled. Ignorance and poor education cripples your populace before they even join the workforce. Do you have any idea how many Americans have never heard of the War of 1812? It's not taught in many schools because it's a war that America lost. That's not the only lost war that is shunted off to the side.
After that, the news corporations need to be reworked. The focus needs to be on informing the public, not scaring or manipulating them.
Then military spending needs to be slashed. You spend more money on your army than the next 25 countries combined. Stop trying to police the world for a generation and get your affairs in order. Having the best tanks isn't the best thing when your roads are crumbling.
Which is the next thing. Spend a decade repairing the failing infrastructure.
These things, and more, NEED to be done. If America is to be great again, you guys need to focus on actually changing America.
@I Are Lebo, im gonna stop you there. Didn't read what you said and I don't give a sh!t. Stop wasting your time.
@Niam Leeson, I'm not insulting America to be a dïck. I'm seeing a crappy situation and commenting on it.
I have no delusions that few (if any) of these will be done. Americans are raised from birth on tales of greatness that have no bearing in reality. Faulty logic drilled into you from youth.
At the end of the day, it's all just my opinion. And I'm going to say my opinion, if I choose to. But whether I'm right or wrong, you can listen to me, you can ignore me, you can flip out at me and call me all sorts of nasty names.
But you cannot stop me.
@Niam Leeson, you can't stop me. Freedom!
@D0N RAM0N, I know this is old, but I live in Australia and gun crime is close to non existent, we have not had a single mass shooting since 1996.
@IdeasAreHard, yeah, pretty admirable. Jim Jeffries did a nice standup bit about the issue
@D0N RAM0N, oh cool I'll have to check that out
Ha. This was so funny. Glad im on funnypics -_-
@Xalvayne, what a time to be alive
@Phil Mike Hunt, hey, do you have a brother named Phil Mac Rackin?
@I Are Lebo, yeah and a cousin called Hugh J Rection
No, that's not why we shouldn't ban guns. Lol, that's kinda funny. No no, it's because it's written in the Constitution that's upheld our country successfully for centuries that the people's right to bear arms SHALL. NOT. BE. INFRINGED.
@4Chan Ambassador , people tend to forget that last part
@4Chan Ambassador , We also have a right to life. And that comes first.
@4Chan Ambassador , To be fair, that amendment was written a while back and guns have advanced quite a long ways. They were mostly single shot muskets that took a bit to reload and tended to be rather inaccurate back then from what I understand, though I read something about an air rifle from back then that had a 22 round magazine... But a modern look needs to be taken. So applied to modern times, closing background check loopholes and banning people on the FBI terrorism watchlist from buying guns are things we should do. Anything else I would need to look into research to see if it has the potential to be effective. But outright banning guns entirely? That would just create a criminal black market for guns (like in Mexico, whose black market gets most of its guns from us). But careful regulation could help (and could always be repealed if it doesn't work).
@4Chan Ambassador , I understand it's part of your centuries old constitution in a completely different society where you could own black people. But what is the point of owning and automatic rifle? Handheld guns I can understand for self defence but ar's? In Britain after we had dunblane we had such tight gun control. You have to go through many checks to get a double barrel shotgun pistols are illegal here Because of the constitution the man who did the shooting simply got an automatic rifle and shot dead 50 people
@4Chan Ambassador , but what I find funny about the beloved constitution and amendments is that the first amendment states that everyone has the freedom to practice their religion and to have freedom of speech. Tell me what Donald trump is planing to do with the millions of Muslims in America. If he removes them then he is directly breaking this amendment.
@Phil Mike Hunt, maybe I want an AR to simply fire a magazine at a junk car in my back yard I'm the country? Why can't I do that? See my reply to theratman above to see what I would think should work
@angrydwarf, what you said is completely right in the way how AR should be heavily checked. Agree with you there, it's just I fail to see the point of having one. What's to stop you from passing these checks and getting an AR to shoot up a school
@Phil Mike Hunt, because people like me enjoy the thrill of fully automatic weapons, look up the big sandy shoot in Nevada, that's what I would do with an automatic weapon, I have no interest in hunting, I just like guns and how they work, its interesting to me how the actions do their job.
@4Chan Ambassador , Also YOUR COUNTRY HAS THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF FIREARM BASED HOMICIDES OF ANY DEVELOPED COUNTRY . What does it take for people to realise that just because a 271 year old document says that guns should be allowed does not give credence to the present. Mass shootings should never be a regular thing and crying but wut abut ur ritez is despicable when hundreds of innocent people are being murdered annually because people are able to buy and use weapons more easily than they could buy and drive a car.
@DrahcirAloer, Australia had a equally frequent number of mass shootings, following a particularly large one in the 1990s the government banned the majority of firearms. They have not had a mass shooting since.
@DrahcirAloer, the first amendment was written before the Internet. Should free speech be regulated as well? What about religion. We didn't have a lot of the modern beliefs. should they be regulated?
@4Chan Ambassador , it's written in the second AMENDMENT, maybe someone could just amend it again
@LeafOnTheW1nd, When will you people realize that it gun deaths aren't what matters. It's violent crime rates. It's obvious that a country with such lax gun laws is going to have more gun deaths, but what about violent crime in general? The US has the average violent crime rate when compared to other western countries. Guns are used to commit crimes, but they also save lives. How many women have protected themselves from a potential rapist? How many people have protected themselves from a burglar/a mugger/an intruder? Do you know? Every year thousands of people use guns to protect their lives, but you never hear he media talking about those numbers.
@Robenstein, It's part of the first ten amendments, also known as the BILL OF RIGHTS.
@angrydwarf, I guess because shooting isn't a part of British culture as much as in the states so I'll never really understand. Thanks for not being a brain dead gun nut and has an arguenebt
@Phil Mike Hunt, argument
@Phil Mike Hunt, not a problem, but if you ever get the chance to shoot a machine gun full auto hopefully you will see what I mean about it being fun
@4Chan Ambassador , Yea that right was put forth to protect people from governmental tyranny. However that was also added in a time when we were still trying to set the basics for our government as you said two hundred years ago and now weaponry has advanced well past anything that the original signers could have imagined. Also what good will a militia do against the strongest military in the world? Face it there are some blatant problems with some of America's gun laws that need to be looks at and I understand that it is a right for all Americans but too often do the wrong people get them either by legal or illegal means and something needs to be done about that.
@CriTiKa1, no because those numbers are small since most people defend themselves without firearms, I believe the "good guy with a gun" accounts for about 3% of civilian retaliations to violent crime. The vast majority of people are facing their attackers without a firearm. By enforcing strict laws on fire arms that ensure that civilian grade guns are restricted to hunting and sports weapons and that virtually everyone in possession of a firearm is safe to own one and is legally safe to operate one which has to be thorough enough that they are unlikely to use them in a way that poses a threat to another person. Is that too much to ask? Hell! Australia is an example of how successful gun laws are: they had the same culture (Guns are a right, society will collapse without them), they had the same frequency of shootings (13-15 over ten years) however when they had a huge massacre in the 1990s the government managed to enact a law that outlawed virtually all firearms.
@LeafOnTheW1nd, many even committed political su1cide to pass that law, why? Because they saw human life as more important than protecting a rather minor Liberty.
@LeafOnTheW1nd, 100,000. That is the estimated number of people who use guns to defend themselves a year. That number, by the way, was made by a public health scholar who supports stricter gun laws, so it is the low estimate. The highest estimate is 2 million, made by a criminologist who is opposed to gun control. So even if we take the lowest estimate, guns save way more people than they kill in a year, which were at 33,000 in 2013 according to the CDC. Now that we've established that guns protect more people than they kill, why would you take away the right of self defense from those 100,000 people to save 33,000 people? Using Australia and Europe as examples is pointless. Australia and European countries have homogeneous populations. They don't have anywhere near as much diversity as the US. So you cannot say that what works for them will work for us.
@LeafOnTheW1nd, Laws made out of an emotional reaction are the worst laws we have, just look at the Patriot act. We cannot let our emotions dictate our legislation.
@angrydwarf, yeah how can we possibly live without that essential past time
@CriTiKa1, did any of those involve a fully automatic assault rifle?
@new username 1, All throughout history militias have taken down way more powerful military's.
@Maverick1303, No, because those are extremely difficult to buy. The cheapest automatic gun is an Uzi, which isn't a rifle, and it costs $20,000. An automatic rifle like an AR will cost about as much as a sports car. You should educate yourself on the gun laws we already have before you start demanding new ones.
@LeafOnTheW1nd, more people are killed per year by knives than assault rifles.
@DrahcirAloer, Liberal Myth detected: https://youtu.be/CquUBWHU2_s
@KeKesUHaulFacility , *USSR anthem plays quietly in the background*
@LeafOnTheW1nd, Clueless 13 year old detected.
@big freedom, This is a good point, but alas, it will be shot down because the left likes hiding the truth
@4Chan Ambassador , nothing good can come from abortion, and there's no way to use it properly so banning abortion makes sense. Guns, however, can be used properly by good people and they're the only ones who are hurt by gun control. I personally don't really care about gay marriage or birth control pills and I don't know a lot of people who are, even the most conservative people out there. I also think the fact that liberals want to make me pay for people to kill babies is insane.
@CriTiKa1, shhhh you can't let knowledge get in the way of a good ol hatefest.
@CriTiKa1, Incredibly hard? really? please enlighten me on how incredibly hard they are to get, and btw you can get an AK47 or AR 15 almost anywhere for less than a grand, i know, i own them
@Maverick1303, Yes, semiautomatic sporting versions. I have several semiautomatic AKs. If you want to get an automatic assault rifle, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars in cash. First you have to find someone willing to sell their automatic rifle, because you can only buy ones manufactured before 1986. Then you go through the process of purchasing it, which involves the ATF going through every little thing you ever did. If you get passed the extensive background check, then you can get the gun transferred to you, you know, after you paid the $40,000 price. So yeah, automatic assault rifles are not something the average gun owner will ever be able to buy.
@Maverick1303, What you own is semiautomatic sporting versions of the military rifles. Only way you can get your hands on an automatic rifle for less than a grand is by renting one at a gun range. Please go read up on gun laws, it's painfully obvious you don't know shjt about this topic.
@CriTiKa1, Alright, alright clearly i got misinformation from misinformed people,
@DrahcirAloer, not really. Look up the puckle gun. Created 76 years before the bill of rights was drafted. Good try though.
@Maverick1303, the problem is, people are passing off the same bad info as fact, and soft heads everywhere believe it.
There are too many laws, they need to simplify things, there should be like three laws, don't hurt anyone, don't kill anyone, and don't steal
Thanks, once again I have an imaginary argument in my head. Luckily, I will forget it as soon as I continue scrolling pics.... or after I finish this rum...
Ew, more political statements in my funny pics
The funny thing is shootings still happen in a strict gun resistant place like France. Do you really think the mass shooter got there guns legally? There also the case of one of the safest places in the world have the least amount of gun restriction laws. But that's none of my business☕🐸.
@TotalBull, They happen a hell of a lot less frequently than here.
@KeKesUHaulFacility , just pointing out the fact that just because weapons are not available does not mean crime involving weapons will decrease, considering the fact that most weapons are illegal and sold on the black market.
@TotalBull, since guns were restricted in Australia after the Port Arthur mass shooting, there has been ONE incident where multiple people were killed with a gun. It happened in late 2014, two people died, and we are still talking about it. Meanwhile, America has had over 90 mass shootings since 1966. You can say that criminals will still get guns, you can say that in the end it is the criminal that chooses to kill, but you can't say that restricting guns won't make any difference.
@TotalBull, Most weapons? What do you mean by that? Most weapons used in mass shootings? Most weapons overall, either way, I feel like that's wrong.
@YUNoJump, and New Zealand has some of the lowest crime in the world and get people walk around with smgs strapped on there back. Clearly the problem isn't the guns, but the enviorment that makes killers and wrong doers.
@KeKesUHaulFacility , there has only been 1 mass shooting in which the person had a legal fire arm. This means even if we removed guns from the shelves there will be an uncountable amount of guns around. Basically you took weapons out of label abiding citizens hands, while doing nothing as for the criminals who use them.
@TotalBull, can I see your source for that? My mother's family lives in NZ, I've been there several times, and I can safely say that I never saw a single gun, much less an smg. Just looking at a Wikipedia article on NZ's gun laws I can see that open carry clearly isn't allowed, and procurement of any type of gun requires VERY extensive police checks, a secure storage for the gun, and testimonies from other people, just to get the most basic licence. Past that you need a justified, occupation-related reason to own a gun, like in Australia.
@YUNoJump, God dammit I meant Sweden.
@TotalBull, 1 ever?? That's wrong.
@TotalBull, Sweden has similar restrictions, namely required gun licences received from police, safe storage and a required reason to own a gun outside of self defence. The main difference is that hunting is very popular in Sweden, so there are more types of firearm available to someone who uses a hunting licence to validate a gun licence. Definitely not open-carry levels of freedom though.
@TotalBull, yeah but it is not normal for a developed and politically stable country to have massacres on a near annual basis
@YUNoJump, your right, I don't mind the US making it harder to actually aquire a weapon, my point is straight up banning guns does nothing but harm the people who own them lawfully. So many criminals own guns through the black market system, also its not law abiding citizens( a majority of the time) who are using there weapons to harm others. Lets say you ban guns before the shooting in Orlando, would it happen? Yes it still would be happened because he had a illegal firearm in possession that he purchased fron the black market. In fact I strongly believe of someone was actually packing that day this could have been prevented. Now I know the security guards always carry, but goddamn someone must of snuck him in or got around it because he was basically able to walk in with no effort.
@YUNoJump, the idea is, people don't want to out their lives in the hands of the government, of I had a security guard around with me every where I would see no reason to carry because I know there is someone always on my back to keep me safe. Cops are a little different. There is not a cop for every person so everyone stays protected. So what are you going to do of your caught in a situation where left to protect yourself.
@LeafOnTheW1nd, its really funny you say that, because according to statistics we are 6th or 7th in mass shootings, with countries like norway, Finland and others above.
@LeafOnTheW1nd, here's another just in case you were curious.http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
@TotalBull, that's the problem, most shootings in the us are stopped by people without guns despite having greater access to them. Look I agree with you if someone is determined enough to get a gun they will get one irrespective of the law however by limiting the types of civilian firearms, mandatory thorough background checks and making it more difficult to acquire a license will result in less gun crime. It's like a wearing condom; there is always a chance that it won't work but your chances are far better with than without.
@LeafOnTheW1nd, you didn't even read the articles did you. Also a large majority of murders in the US are also caused by knives, we should probably ban those too. Its funny though, there are almost 350 million legal fire arms in the US and 90% of these fire arms don't get abused or used for murder, like I said a majority of murders are caused by people with illegal firearms, even if you ban them it only widens the spectrum of the black market, and allows for people to still get them like they do anyways.
@LeafOnTheW1nd, your forgetting the fact that a majority of the crimes committed with a gun are illegal weapons.
@YUNoJump, Ah yes guns banned in Australia. Anyway how's that wildlife treating you?
@DeadStroke, everyone knows that Australian predators have evolved to be bulletproof and have the ability to rend through reinforced steel, guns are useless against such a threat. That's why we lost the Great Emu War. (On a serious note a great deal of our native predators are endangered, so in most cases we wouldn't be allowed to kill one anyway. Also you can get guns if you have a valid reason, eg hunting, so outback farmers who are under threat from predators can defend themselves if they are in danger, but in more populated areas it's more difficult.)
The big thing that really pisses me off about people wanting to take my AR-15. Who the hell are you to try to take away my right to defend my family the best way possible. I'm no coward. I won't hide in the corner and wait for the police to clean up my dead body. I'm going to fight. I am going to do everything in my power to protect my loved ones. And if you're too much of a coward to use the best means possible to protect your family, that's fine. Hide behind the false sense of security the police and your alarm system give you. Just don't think I'll lay down my guns because they offend you. You big fat püśśy
No one has ever said "ban birth control."
I believe the argument is actually "I'm not going to buy you birth control, pay for it yourself."
Hillary: "You shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun after being under FBI investigation"
Hillary: *Runs for president while being under FBI investigation*
I'm cool with us keeping all of those things. What we need to ban is vaping!
Except I think all of those should be legal.
@rnf73, even birth control?
Well, the answer is don't ban any of those things?
*gets tackled by democrats and republicans
@Iron Vader, *gets thumbs up from anyone with the same view*
curious, are you American? And I never stated America is the greatest country in the world. I love my country and would never live anywhere else, but it's not the greatest country I the world anymore.
Pretty easy to argue against a straw man.
Where tf would you get illegal abortion? In some shady looking alley way in NYC, and some guy just sucks out the fetus with a vacuum cleaner?
I mean, marriage is something given and recognized by the government so I honestly don't know how that argument applies
Did anyone else see bjtch control?
A drone most likely wouldn't fire a missile anyway and only one civilian. Do you know how much those cost? Just one hellfire missile costs 110 thousand.
Well, I bought a gun so too late now.
Please no more politics here. I see enough on facebook and the news. I come to this app to just some mindless funnies, like a good old fashioned sunday comic strip! Please stop bringing it here
The bill of rights is not a trivial matter. In many ways, it is the single most important part of the constitution. Every one of the first ten amendments was specifically designed for one thing, and one thing only. Keeping the government in line. England, who we had just fought a war against, had at one point in every stage in our breaking away tried to take those rights from the colonies. So, we established a government with specific rules to make sure the government did not trample us and reduce the people to slaves, who could be put away or made to disappear if they wanted to make a fuss (yeah I know it took until 1863(?) but one step at a time, we're talking about the first ten). When you say ban guns, I'm not sure many people know why we have the right to bear arms. In short, I'll let the main protagonist from fallout three say it best: "but the government gave us guns and said- if we f*ck up, you know what to do"
@Captain Anderson, there's allot more to be said, but I'd have to type out about thirty times including references to wars, court cases, but I'll close with this.
Any society willing to abandon their essential freedoms for a little temporary security will receive not the latter, nor regain the former
Funny pics where are you?
Flame war, incoming!
Freedom! But wait...