@A Math Dealer, #ALLlabsmatter
@A Math Dealer, I'm usually one to roll my eyes when someone says black lives matter. However, in the wake of 2 black men being murdered for no reason other than the color of their skin in the past week. I think maybe we shouldn't trivialize the movement. I'll take my down votes in silence.
@notMrWonka, it's the "no other reason than the color of their skin" part that's up for debate
@Tyrellious, with the recent one. it could have been avoided if the dude just did what the police told him to do. i mean i wouldnt be walking over to my car if i was told to lay or the floor or not to move. especially knowing police have it rough never knowing what theyre going to get themselves into. i will also take my downvotes quietly knowing a lot of people never think about it from both perspectives like i have and have still come to the conclusion that this would have gone way better.
@notMrWonka, not even thinking about the recent ones there have been many many more and the police officers just get off with it.
@LeonelFreak, yeah, any time you have a gun on you or in your vehicle and a police officer confronts you, it's probably best to just sit down and not do anything that could be perceived as aggressive or noncompliant
@Tyrellious, from what I read (and yes I know news articles are biased) and the videos I saw, both men were compliant. They did everything they were told. The only thing they had in common was that they were black at the wrong place and time.
@LeonelFreak, non compliance should not be a death penalty. It's a police training issue.
@notMrWonka, well the police released a statement saying that they were non compliant (whether you believe them or not) and the federal dept who investigates this stuff has stated there was a gun of his at the scene, burin not willing to take either side until the investigation is over
@notMrWonka, has nothing to do with the color of your skin. If a cop tells you don't move you don't move. It is pretty simple. Even if the cop is basing the case on race. Guess what you stop when they say stop them rais your hands and keep them up untill you are told you can put them down and all of a sudden you are not shot and everyone goes home.
@LeonelFreak, Non-compliance shouldn't result in an extra-judiciary execution.
@Firecracker Jim, yes I am very aware of how compliance works thank you. And even if they weren't being compliant, Isn't it at all concerning that all the shootings are fatal. I don't think it's a matter of black lives matter or police shooting black people because it's fun. I think there's too many trigger happy rookies who panic at the sight of a black person, because of all the media and stereotypes surrounding the situation.
@notMrWonka, i disagree. Not a single case has been a cop yelling WE GOT A BLACK GUY SHOOT HIM!!!! We just don't. 99.99% of the time it is because the culprit didn't follow directions. They say put your hands up so you put them up. They say drop the gun you drop it. You relise there are white people who get shot by the police to right? Only thing is we as white people see it and think, well obviously he did something wrong and stupid got them killed. Also we don't go around burning our own damn town down and looting tvs and shoes because, " fvck the police he din do nuffin!"
@notMrWonka, not sure what stories you've seen, but the last two the suspects were specifically NOT complying. One had a gun, and refused to drop it. Police are under no obligations to get themselves killed because some will automatically just assume racism (which is racist in itself). Also, police are trained to only shoot to kill because shooting to wound doesnt work in the real world. How this case can be turned into "executed for being black" really show how stupid this country has become considering ALL the evidence says it was justified, just like most of the other shootings. The one in Tulsa is more in question, but it wouldn't have happened if the guy obeyed the police.
@Tyrellious, But the videos taken revealed (of we are talking about the same one) that he was sitting on his car, reading a book.
@XxFloweyxX, did you not hear the police report the guy was not holding a book that was a lie made by his sister also the police said that it was a gun and unless you think that the black police chief is lying and I was a book the cops had the right (thought they could of tried to taze them) to shoot them
@Taken, remember when that crazy black lives matter guy hid in a bunker and started shooting cops, and the thing people were most angry about in that situation was that they had to set off a bomb to stop him and not that he was murdering law enforcement
@Spareairplane, 1) Grammar. It exists.
2) Videos don't lie.
3) If it seems illogical to t to trust his sister, but completely logical to trust the officers (who, just like normal people, which they are) have lied several times in the past, there's a problem.
@LeonelFreak, ok but what about the guy who was pulled over and shot on camera? He followed everything the guy said. I understand that yes cops have it tough, but for this many unarmed black people to die, there is some problem, and denying it only polarizes the issue even more. It's an issue and I think most of the protesters just want it acknowledged.
@Oujosh29, I've always thought that "it wouldn't have happened if he had obeyed the police" is kind of a terrible argument. There are some cases where it makes sense, and some where it really doesn't. Obviously if you have a gun and the police tell you to drop it, you should listen because otherwise you're a threat. But what about the one where the guy was selling cigarettes illegally on the street? If I recall correctly, he was unarmed and ran, and was shot. That seems pretty excessive to me. Sure, he should have listened, but that doesn't mean killing him is the way to handle that.
@LeonelFreak, except he had just suffered a traumatic brain injury and was on a lot of medications for it. In case you've never experienced a family member going through that, it can make them very confused and out of it, and the wife was trying to tell the police that and the ignored her
@DrAwesome37, that would be excessive, if thats what happened. And unless there was a second example of that, what happened was someone was breaking the law and threatened local store owners who objected to his illegal activities who then called the cops. The cops tried to arrest him peacefully, the criminal refused and resisted, and the police arrested him by force. No shots were fired. The criminal was in such bad health (he had health problems and was like 300 pounds) so he died of the stress. Some people say the cop used a move not allowed by policy, others including the police say everything was legit. Regardless, what else would you have cops do? Are they not allowed to arrest people now if they say no? Its the criminals choice 99% of the times whether its gonna end badly for them, not the cops.
@Oujosh29, that's definitely not the instance I'm talking about, unless I just completely have the facts wrong (which I guess I might, it's been about a year since I've even heard about this specific example.) And police should definitely arrest criminals, that's part of the job. However, the force used to arrest someone should never exceed what situation warrants. And if someone gets shot, it should be because they're a serious threat, not because they refused to comply.
@Oujosh29, we need more people like you. Bless you sir.
@DrAwesome37, agreed that police shouldn't shoot just based on compliance, but I don't think any of these cases are examples of that. In both of the recent examples shots were fired based on threats. The one with a gun is easy, the one in Tulsa may have been excessive. However, with police they can shoot based on a reasonable perception of being harmed. For example, if you have your hand in your waistband and refuse to raise your hands, the police can open fire regardless if you actually have a gun or not. The police arent required to wait untill after they are shot to know if the threat is real.
@Brickmasta8, unarmed white people die too. It just doesn't get focused on by the media.
@Oujosh29, I don't think that police are just shooting because of non compliance. I do think that some get jumpy because non compliance is part of what makes them feel threatened. What happened in Tulsa seems to be an example of that. The officer claims the man could've been reaching for a weapon, but evidence seems to point to the contrary. The car window was up, and there's apparently an affidavit saying that the officer had previously cleared the car and knew there were no weapons inside it. It seems to me she misperceived this man as a threat when she really shouldn't have. It's possible that his race played some part in that, we'll never know for sure, but in the end it seems to me that she wasn't properly trained to handle the situation.
@XxFloweyxX, You're right, videos don't lie. In neither of the videos released by the guy's family can you see what he's holding. The descriptions by witnesses that weren't family do not say he was holding a book. The report issued by the state investigators say a gun was found beside his body. The family viewed the police footage of the incident and stopped claiming it was a book, switching instead to "it's unclear what he was holding."
So you're correct. Videos don't lie. Neither does evidence. So unless you're accusing local, state, and eventually federal investigators of covering up an unlawful shooting just 'cause, it sounds like a bunch of blacks destroyed private property, stole televisions and sports memorabilia, and (let's not forget) killed another protestor over a guy with a gun refusing to listen to police getting dealt with in the manner that police are trained. The color of his skin matters exactly squat.
@HiroAntagonist, Alright. I do not trust media, so when they started changing stories I believed them less. And I didn't support the protests anyway. But thanks for telling me, that way I didn't make myself look more like an idiot.
@XxFloweyxX, I don't blame you. When events first happen the media turn into a bunch of click bait whores and just go with whatever is the most attention grabbing. They're part of the reason people are so easily incited to violence. It's usually a couple days before actual facts start coming out. Better to wait and form views on a factual basis than media hype, for sure
@HiroAntagonist, Yeah. I hated the "protestors" this time because they immediately jumped to "Black Lives Matter", and they were getting mad because their "peaceful" protest had some tear gas thrown in from their violence. But now that I know this, I hate it even more.
@XxFloweyxX, Local, state, and federal investigators try to cover things up all the time.
@XxFloweyxX, The government tried to overthrow Cuba and cover it up, I mean come on now.
@UmActually, if people complied we wouldn't have to be talking about it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Firecracker Jim, I think you are 100% right with what you are saying. However, this is an issue about consistency. A white man shoots a crowd in a movie theater and disobeys police orders but somehow gets restrained and taken to court. A black man would get shot. Personally I'd prefer both to get shot, since they are disobeying the law, but one does and the other one doesn't. See the lack of consistency?
@Uranusisbig, difference is he gave up and put down his guns. He did comply. Or he would be dead. I don't know how he wasn't killed on the spot though.
@EVILdrPORKCHOP3, If police didn't shoot as soon as people didn't comply, we also wouldn't have this issue.
@Uranusisbig, bad example. The batman theater shooter gave up when the police arrived. Thats the main thread here, if a cop tells you to do something, do it. Otherwise, a cop doesn't have to wait till a gun is pointed at them to shoot. Even if the cop is wrong, you're still the dead one.
@UmActually, lol, what shooting have you been following? To my knowledge there isn't a single example of a shooting just for non-compliance. Every shooting has been about a perceived threat, which wouldn't have happened if the suspects complied.
@Cenyoawakened, then you admit there is a problem, no unarmed person should die by police hands
@Brickmasta8, no unarmed person should die to the police. But again, whether they die or not is more on the choices of the suspect then the police.
@Oujosh29, actually it really is the choice to pull the trigger, hundreds of people probably don't comply exactly, yet they don't die. You are victim blaming, it's like saying if that girl didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have gone outside
@Oujosh29, Tulsa. Terence Crutcher was walking away toward his car and put his hands on the side of his car and was shot.
@Brickmasta8, wrong. You are excusing people from their actions. Police are under no obligation to get themselves killed by waiting till they are already shot to defend themselves. If they reasonably perceive a threat, like if you wont remove your hand from your waistband, they can open fire. Don't want to get shot? Don't give the police reason to perceive a threat. Stop making excuses for people and try blaming the police.
@UmActually, he disobeyed orders, was on drugs, and the cop thought he was trying to reach into his truck for a weapon. The officer is also being charges, why can't people explain what happened honestly? She opened fire because she perceived a threat, THATS the reason, not because of non-compliance. Was the perceived threar reasonable? Since she's being charged, probally not. However, whats also true if he had complied with the first dozen orders, he would also be alive.
@Oujosh29, police sign up understanding the risks, and there are non lethal ways of disarming people. No one should fear the people supposedly protecting them. Why is the first instinct to shoot first ask questions later? Put your hands behind your head? Well they said put them above your head, so you die. What if the person misheard or is scared? Why are innocent unarmed people dying not a problem?
@Brickmasta8, thats such a bad argument. Police sign up knowing there are risks, they don't sign up to be suicidal or target dummys. They want and have every right to go home at the end of the day too. In none of the examples did the police shoot first and ask guestions later, in all examples the police multiple times tried to end it peacefully. The suspects chose to excalate the situations. None of the situations did the suspects comply and still get shot. And non-lethal methods aren't meant for every situation for a reason, they don't always work and can put the police in danger. Why must you change details of what happened just to blame the police?
@Oujosh29, if you ever want to have some help getting your point across with these things you could reference this video. http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=969_1263249923 Sorry about being unable to copy it. Even so, if you are willing to put in the time it would be worth it.
@Oujosh29, I cannot stand cop killers. Thats what officers are afraid of. They do not know if hesitation could kill them. Honestly i don't blame them for reacting in such ways. The situations can be quite volatile after all.
Actually the dog is just mirroring
Why does the cop have a gun in his hands and one still holstered?
@thee omen , one for planting and one for shooting!
@thee omen , I was wondering the same thing
@thee omen , one is a gun the other is a taser.
Me when I see the resource officer at school