Thing is...automatic weapons are fully illegal even in america
@GoldenMonkeyFace, since the Colorado and Massachusetts shootings or what? Because before those they where...burst was illegal, but not single and full automatic.
@Blackfrost273, no he's right fully automatic weapons are illegal. If those people were using fully automatic weapons, then they were illegally purchased or modified
@King Millner, since when? I legally shot a m16 full auto and single shot in 2006 in Oklahoma
@Blackfrost273, Ok I am going to try and speel this out the best I can but it can get slightly complicated please just bear with me.
@Kliment Voroshilov, I just asked when
@Blackfrost273, You need a class 3 firearm permit for full auto. You shot it at a special gun range, I assume?
@GoldenMonkeyFace, pretty sure you can still fire a semi auto pretty quickly
@GoldenMonkeyFace, They're not illegal, just really expensive.
@Gollum Fetish, it was an official course, not a special range. it was not burst shot either. I am just curious when full auto became illegal. Because some time ago Fox news was also saying it was legal to buy...I'm just lost here
@Blackfrost273, You have to obtain a class 3 permit, which is incredibly hard to get.
@Blackfrost273, The NFA or national firearms act was enacted in 1934 it aimed to end the use of things like the Thompson submachine gun by members of organized crime groups. It created a national regestry as well as a $200 tax stamp. When purchasing the gun you had to pay the tax and the serial number was registered. It also placed regulations of the transfer, use and possession of such firearms.
The gun control act of 1986 made the manufacture of automatic firearms for the civilian market illegal. It did however grandfather versions of said weapons manufactured before May of 1986. Meaning that automatic weapons manufactured before that were still legal to own by civilians but there were some very strict regulations.
@Gollum Fetish, cool, I'm not interested in such but that would have helped their rhetoric a bit
@Kliment Voroshilov, @Gollum Fetish, I'm curious why we have conflicting data from credible sourcing....
@Blackfrost273, To purchase one of the grandfathered versions you have to fill out an ATF form 4 which is a full background check that requires fingerprinting and passport photos to be taken. You send that along with the $200 to the ATF and it takes about 6 months for the paperwork to come back. Once it does it is sent to the chief law enforcement officer in your area who also has to sign off (if he doesn't sign you cannot purchase) once all rhat is done you can take possession of your new firearm. You cannot transport it across state lines, you cannot let anyone handle or use it withought you present, you cannot sell it to someone else without them repeating the process described above.
@Blackfrost273, many so called credible sources don't have an exact understanding of the law. There are permits and such for manufacturers and dealers but a private purchaser does not require one.
@Gollum Fetish, @Blackfrost273 I would recomend the faq page at the ATF website it spells out essentially what I just have with refrence to the exact document.
@Blackfrost273, you need a class 3 firearms license which is extremely difficult to obtain, it's always been like that
@Blackfrost273, you were with a guy with a class 3, is my guess. To be honest it's not your fault but do you know what full auto means?
@ear potato, please read my explanations A private purchaser does not require a class 3 license. Dealers and manufacturers do.
@Kliment Voroshilov, I was replying to the selling aspect
@ear potato, Ok that's is correct. Sorry but you did not specify that. I'm used to dealing with people who think off the rack ARs are fully automatic.
@ear potato, fully automatic is a term used to describe a gun that will fire rounds repeatedly until the trigger is released or the magazine is empty. Burst is a two, three, four, five, or six round shot fired at one time by pressing the trigger one time (although there are burst autos that have a pause, I assume), and single shot is just as it sounds; one shot for one trigger pull.
@Kliment Voroshilov, no, I own one lmao
@ear potato, So do I brother. That would out an end to so much of this gun control talk if people were just educated about firearms.
@GoldenMonkeyFace, Surely the key point is the bit about kids getting shot, not what type of gun it was?
@Nellybert , The point is that they disseminate false information such as the automatic weapons myth and use it to pivot to ban unrelated firearms.
@Blackfrost273, class 4 dealers can purchase just about anything they want; mini guns, fully automatic rifles, basically anything. BUT! They cannot sell or give them to anything less than another class 4 dealer. If you took a course involving a full auto anything I can almost guarantee it was run by a top vetted dealer. The thing with the class 4 licenses is that they're incredibly had to get due to the intense vetting one has to go through. Any sort of person dark spot or anything suspicious and you'll be turned down
@PVT Donut, do you suggest we switch to flint lock pistols with ball bearing ammo that leaves 12 inch holes in someones chest? That and yeah you can shoot a semi auto quick....but not as quickly as an automatic even with a trigger finger that's fast there's also the weight of the trigger pull which effects things as well
@Kliment Voroshilov, But we agree that kids getting shot (by accident or otherwise) is usually bad, right?
That aside, I'd like to explicitly state that nothing I'm saying is in any way meant to offer an opinion on gun ownership rights in the US.
@dategrape, how about just not having guns?
@PVT Donut, because they're fun to shoot. Why not have hammers or knives or screwdrivers?
@dategrape, hammers have the intent of fixing things. Screwdirves screw things and guns were made to shoot. Wheter it be people or not.
@PVT Donut, yeah guns shoot. That's their function. What's your point?
@King Millner, no full auto is legal there are only three stipulations, 1 you must fill out forms with the federal government and you local police force, as well as pay a 200 dollar processing fee, 2 your full auto weapon cannot be foreign made if it was made after 1968, before that all full auto weapons are completely legal, and 3 any full auto weapon after 1987 is illegal, you can only get guns that were "made after that". That being said if one or two certain parts were made before that you can pretty much use any parts you want to build your own, even a certain amount of foreign parts
@Nellybert , Yes it would be moronic to say that kids getting shot isn't bad. But that is so often used as a ploy to push legislation I think that argument falls on deaf ears for many people who realize the legislation would be ineffectual.
@PVT Donut, I'm going to cut in here slightly. Many people in modern times have lost sight of the true intention of the 2nd ammendment. It was designed to ensure that the people would be armed in case the government became tyrannical and no longer represented the will of the people.
Guns are an essential protection of liberty and withought them there is no way that this great republic could have been created.
The 2nd ammendment intended for the people to have the same style arms or better if possible than the military had.
@Kliment Voroshilov, I think the point here was contrasting the attitudes on gun ownership with those on healthcare (for reference, Germany has the 4th highest rate of gun ownership in the world, so they're definitely not anti-gun) rather than commenting on gun laws.
@Nellybert , I understand that but misinformation is a powerful thing and it is good to fight it wherever it is seen.
Can we agree on that?
@Kliment Voroshilov, I agree, decisions should be made on facts.
@Kliment Voroshilov, Was going to outline it for them the same way the saw how eloquently you did and decided I would just upvote. Currently working on getting mine in Texas to purchase a 240B.
@Nellybert , Thank you that is really what I was trying to get across with my line of argument.
@OnionBro, Thank you sir I pride myself on my knowledge and ability to disseminate it clearly.
@Kliment Voroshilov, No worries, always enjoy rational discussion.
@Nellybert , just curious are you from Germany? I ask because you used them as an example.
@Blackfrost273, Full auto has been illegal since the early 70s due to the highly destructive power they possess, it's useless in hunting and low accuracy makes it an unreliable defensive choice. Now you can get something called a slide fire which is practically full auto but with much better control and accuracy.
@Kliment Voroshilov, Nope, British (no guns here - I didn't even see one until I was 16 and that was being carried by a cop patrolling an airport). I cited Germany because the picture is taken from German TV.
@Blackfrost273, sorry I was wrong, it was not the 70s but 86. Making a firearm automatic is really easy though, you just need to be taught how to do it.
@Kliment Voroshilov, back in the days when we were still using cannonballs and guns were mainly 1 shot, low ammo, long reload time. Whereas now most rifles have a 30 round magazine and extended magazines. Can be reloaded in an instant. Have various types of ammo to kill, injure, torture to death. If the second commandment was made for citizens to have arms against the government then why do most gun related deaths involve citizens killing citizens?
@GoldenMonkeyFace, what about that demolition ranch guy then shouldn't he be in jail ?
@PVT Donut, The argument that the firearms that we have now we're not ment to be included because they didn't exist relies on the idea that the founders had never experienced any form of scientific advancement. There were weapons at the time that had started to surpass the ones you are describing and they belived wholeheartedly that rhe people had a right to them.
The reason that most gun deaths involve citizen to citizen is because there are bad people who use them for reasons they are not intended for. To blame the firearms for the actions of thouse people is incorrect. The gun cannot get up and shoot someone on its own, it is a tool that is used in that case to do harm.
@Kliment Voroshilov, this is the last thing im going to say on the issue. Yes there are pros and cons for having guns. (I beleive the cons outway the pros). We could go on and on about having guns or not. But remember this someone who doesnt have a firearm will find it alot harder to kill someone than someone who has a firearm. (I want this thread to stop but before you go on about the processes to get a firearm just rember that people can change personality as fast as a brick falls)
@PVT Donut, I respect that you wish to end the thread and that you have your own opinion, though i disagree with it. I would like to make a closing comment as well.
Someone who wants to do harm will find a way to do harm with or withought a firearm. Taking them out of the hands people who only wish to defend themselves will only make them an easier target to thouse that wish to do harm.
Thank you for the debate sir and go fourth in peace.
@PVT Donut, unless you're firing a revolver, most pistols are semi-automatic.
@PVT Donut, from your last comment. Your fear of what may happen if I own a gun does not supersede my right to defend myself and my family. If you value safety over freedom...
@big freedom, pretty sure i could defend myself against a robber if i have a metal baseball bat and they dont have a gun because i live in england
@PVT Donut, righhht. And what happens when there's massive riots and 40 people with bats want to get through your door? How's your bat working out?
Or how about your government becomes increasingly totalitarian and every person becomes a pawn rather than a free citizen... they aren't afraid of you because there is nothing you can do about it.
There was a time when that's exactly what happened. The people rose up and overthrew that government and instituted a new one who's SOLE purpose was to limit the ability of the government to oppress the people, regardless of how many of them wanted the security rather than liberty.
@CriTiKa1, I don't get all the downvotes. It's not illegal to own a fully automatic rifle. You just have to buy it from a licensed dealer, go through an extensive background check, pay some fees to the ATF and done. Most automatic guns cost tens of thousands of dollars. Bunch of uninformed motherfvckers in here.
@GoldenMonkeyFace, actually, fully automatic firearms are completely legal to obtain in the United States. There is a butt ton of paperwork you have to do with the ATF, pay a tax stamp, get a class III firearms licence, more paperwork, etc and then actually find the gun you want. It has to be a firearm prior to 1980-something I forget the exact date, 87? Again I forgot. But yes it is completely legal.
@GoldenMonkeyFace, you can always make your semi fully, very cheap. I don't know how or anything. It's still illegal, but who'd know? Unless you drew pew and pew pew pew on it
@King Millner, you can get a class three weapons license and you can own fully automatic weapons.
@Kliment Voroshilov, sorry I'm late to the chat here, but great job explaining this to the masses. If only people would educate themselves on firearms and not listen to the bleeding heart idiots on tv that just throw around words that they heard from some other idiot that mean nothing close to the actual firearm.
@SundayGunday, Thank you sir I do my best to educate everyone who is willing to listen.
@Blackfrost273, you're full of sh*t you don't even know the word for single shot which is semi-auto. Further more you are intentionally trying to stir the sh*t for no reason. Further more you defining each term for fire raise without actually looking up semiautomatic tells me you're a moron.
@PVT Donut, if nobody had guns then what would the little old ladies do when someone broke into their homes? Call the police? I guess it would be a nice heads up that they will find someone's grandma dead in their home since she never had a chance against the big guy with a bat...
@PVT Donut, in the USA, unfortunately many criminals have firearms that were illegally obtained anyway. Making them illegal would disarm the good guys... the bad guys would just take advantage of that...case and point : look at where the majority of shootings occur... schools, movie theaters, places where these people do not think they will be shot back at..
@big freedom, its pretty peaceful where i live dont tend to get riots as a regular thing
@PVT Donut, only has to happen once. I'm not saying YOU should own a gun. I'm saying you shouldn't affect my ability to own a gun.
@big freedom, It's so dumb to prohibit most of the weaponry that could help us. In NC, a 16 year old can go out and buy a rifle. Sure you can't conceal one, but that's just as bad. Truthfully, the way I look at it is, you can make a weapon out of anything nowadays. Mass murders have happened because crazies were using improvised bombs, and the people's only defense mechanism is to avoid danger. If there happens to be an invasion (ever) all we'll be doing is hiding in our basements. That sounds awful even to me, someone who really hates the violence going on far away overseas. Domestically, they should have a law that says something like "You can have an automatic weapon as long as it doesn't leave your property" or something along those lines.
Honestly a lot of people dont know the difference between a communist government from communist economic policies
If everyone gets equal healthcare yes it is communist like but its more of an economical thing rather than a government issue. Big insurance companies would lose out on billions but everyone would have free healthcare, which in turn would effect the stock market causing alot of damage to the economy. I believe its a good idea but it will take a long time to adjust the economic structure to accommodate free healthcare. I believe affordable healthcare is a better option for USA.
@dont hate masturbate, I like your comment! Finally, this discussion is so biased and people have such skewed ideas. In the end, you pay for healthcare. You either pay taxes in countries with universal healthcare or you pay insurance companies. You just need to decide which system will be in the patient's best interest, government owned or corporate. I am from Europe, I was used to great healthcare. Currently I live in Phoenix (my job posted me here for 3 years) and honestly, despite what people think, you are not getting great care for the amount you pay...just my 2 cent after seeing both systems. My wife got pregnant here and we were seriously thinking of moving back to Europe to have the baby born.
The best thing about living somewhere other than America is the fact that you get the ability to talk smack about America without actually having to deal with the problems America has. That and universal healthcare and not having to worry about guns and no 2016 American election.
@YUNoJump, what utopia do you live in where you have to political drama and gun violence?
@Captain TR8R, 'straya mate, all of our politicians are just boring politicians as opposed to dodgy people like Hillary and trump, the biggest issue we have is that the ruling party can't admit that everyone wants gay marriage so we still haven't got it. As for guns, I see news reports about gun deaths probably less than once a fortnight, and the reports aren't anything special outside of being a gun death.
@YUNoJump, yeah I'll take Trump and Clinton over having every living animal in my country thirsting for human blood.
@Captain TR8R, Come to the UK - we've had (according to Wikipedia) a grand total of 5 mass shootings ever (I stopped looking when I got back to 1850 though), our politicians are all fairly boring and we hunted the last dangerous native animals to extinction centuries ago! Oh, and universal healthcare.
I'm not criticising America, just having a moment of patriotism. :)
@YUNoJump, the talking smack is true for anywhere keep in mind. We all talk sh!t about each other
@Nellybert , the UK also has the highest reports of stabbings every year. When you lose one weapon a other inevitably takes its place
@YUNoJump, I like paying for my healthcare and getting seen almost immediately if I go the emergency room. But hey! Fvck that system right?
@TheWhiteWolf, The USA has a murder rate of 3.9 per 100,000 people (a very long way from the top of the table, by the way) compared to 0.9 in the UK. That's around 12,000 murders a year, compared to 572.
I'm not going to argue about US gun laws as its nothing to do with me so I have no grounds to form a valid opinion on it. We do seem to be less disposed to offing each other though (could just be laziness - killing someone hand to hand, as it were, sounds like a lot more effort than shooting them).
@Nellybert , Soooo like... since our election is straight garbage you got any room in your apartment(oops i meant flat) for a very sad american?
@Swagneto, Yeah, come on over - get yourself dual nationality and then you can always have an extra option for which side to take in any debate! :)
There are a few house rules though:
1) No lite beer.
2) No beer in 330ml bottles, get on the pints lad.
3) No shooting people, that's frowned on over here.
4) Anytime anyone says "are you American"? you gotta go completely over the top and see how much of a parody of an American you can be before they realise you're taking the piss.
5) Bring one of those awesomely huge American BBQ grills with you, I need one of those in my life.
1) lite beer is gross, i prefer liquor (vodka mostly)
2) I don't fvck with beer in general so no probs
3) I don't own a firearm so no were good there
4) I pretty much do that already, I'll walk around in an american flag
5) I gotchu fam, make us some bacon cheeseburgers and hotdogs
I'll see ya on November 8th
What the hell kinda kid shoots themselves in the knees with an illegal firearm on a schoolyard. Has this ever happened? And do we call this liberty? I mean we can be stupid. But this women is probably the least informed person I've seen. Can't own guns till 18. Can't buy automatic weapons. Most schools don't allow firearms. Americans like their kneecaps... Taking out of our wealth with higher taxes to give everyone free healthcare isn't the liberty America was founded on. You want socialized healthcare, go to Canada and see how everyone their likes it.
@StiffWood, this is one of the best comments I've seen on this picture thank you
There are so many things wrong with what she said
How Americans view Germans: why did those idiots follow Hitler. And why does Europe talk so much mess, it's us that has to save their a$$ every world war. Are y'all still butt hurt over our independence? Y'all don't have to be free, but we are, and want to stay that way.
See we can do it to.
@Dyslexic eman resu, And then the Republicans won the 2016 election...
@Dyslexic eman resu, Its funny cause you think America saved Europe.
@DeadStroke, uuuuuuhhhhhh... yeah because we did. We escaped from the tyranny of Europe then came back to save them from themselves.
@Bomb The Russians, america helped on some side-wars. They were good reinforcement but it's not like Europe was fighting with clubs and spears. Being a jack ass and saying "Yea, we basically did everything." is just dishonoring the brave canadians, french, british and every other allied soldier. It was a team effort.
@Dyslexic eman resu, its just a joke dude dont act so butt hurt.
It's Form a german parody news show. They're making fun of regular german news and doing it with mich sarcasm
She's a comedian so everyone calm the f*ck down
The kid or his parents should pay for the kids own mistakes.
As an European I can confirm this is how we see America.
It's so true
Yea they just use humane gas chambers to get rid of kids
They have free Healthcare in Germany wouldn't this more likely apply to them? I don't get it. And you can get a full auto weapon there just as easy as America. I'm just confused.
@pablo2420, Nope thats not true
@BigCook, which part?
@pablo2420, the one about full auto weapons.
Its hard to even get a pistol here.
@BigCook, if you have a collector license you can get a full auto.
@pablo2420, yes but its still not easy and the bka is "testing" you and in the usa every idiot can buy a gun so you cant say its as easy as in america.
@BigCook, easy to buy a gun but still a challenge when it comes to full auto and that's what we have been talking about. It's about as easy probably more expensive though to own a full auto in germany.
@pablo2420, ok yes thats right :)
Get ready for people talking shït in the comments
Mom! Liberals are posting on funnypics again
Because you can't own for self defence it makes it a little harder but if you show that it's for sport use then not the case. Which is kind of the case here with getting a permit for full auto.
I have a permit for my fully auto ak-47 but I live in Texas
Yeah the right to bear arms is horrible. Just think of how bad it would have been for the Germans had they all had that right durring the holocaust..... /s
@TheCaptn, They did. In 1938 the NSDAP enacted the German Weapons Act, which effectively deregulated gun ownership. Jews were still banned from gun ownership, but the other 50million or so people were allowed them.
They currently have the 4th highest level of gun ownership in the world and some of the lowest gun-crime rates - in 2015 there were 130 'crimes against life' involving firearms, of which 57 were deliberate murders. I read that the USA had about 11,000 gun murders that year.
@Nellybert , There isn't the same gang mentality and opposing nationalities that hate each other thing in Germany that there is in America. That's kinda the reason there's more murders here (at least in my thinking)
@Commandshark, I think there is a fair bit of gang culture in Germany (it is kinda the spiritual home of football hooliganism, skin heads and the far right) - they just prefer to beat each other up rather than kill each other.
@Nellybert , Yeah, it's more of a bitter hatred here. They'd rather just kill the others here.
@Commandshark, Another reason for us non-Americans to avoid voicing opinions on gun-control in the US - we don't generally understand the social issues that go with it all.
I mean - if I beat you up this week, you come back next week and beat me up. Everyone gets better and is back down the pub at the weekend. If I kill you, your mates come and kill me - and then no more beer! Where's the fun in that?????
Honestly thought that was Sarah palin until I saw the text at the top
@stealthapotomous, I'm trying to figure out what idiot shot themselves in the knees and what big get idiot let them do it at school or st all...(assuming the kid is around 16)