Free health care in the Uk.
@allanahrae, why do people think government programs are free? Unless you're only referring to marginal cost for individuals
@Sheep Rider, if insurance companies weren't wanting massive discounts for their customers at hospitals, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive
@Toxia, topically related, but logically unimportant to my question.
@Sheep Rider, fair enough
@allanahrae, Free at point of use - still costs a bit in taxation, but I'm okay with that as I know that it means I'll never be hit with a bill like this or be told that I can't have a life saving organ transplant because it's been deemed 'elective surgery' and isn't covered by my insurance.
@Sheep Rider, oh my god, when people say "our ___ is free" they know it's payed for through taxes, and that it's free at use. Only idiots think no money goes into it. It's easier to say "here in Canada we have free healthcare", than "here in Canada we have a more socialized medical service that is payed for through taxes".
@allanahrae, not free at all and far inferior to a market healthcare system. Just sayin'.
@allanahrae, but it's also shît so you know
@ThePooper, I'm not dying and I didn't have to pay anything to ensure that, every country has taxes so I'm not sure why everyone is picking up on that
@Nellybert , The thing is that for anything other than emergency surgery, you have to wait 2 to 3 times longer for a transplant or to even get started on a treatment plan than you do in America, plus we have more advanced medical technology and 95% of people never pay their full bill. I had an emergency appendectomy that required a full round of antibiotics and a blood transfusion, got everything done in 5 days, left on the 6th, and left with a bill of over three hundred thousand dollars. I pay around 40 bucks a month and will never pay off the total debt. We have a very shjtty billing and insurance system, but I much prefer our freedom top quality medicine than your free bread line medicine
@Doctor Krieger, it's why people try to fly to the US to get treatment for things.
@allanahrae, yes but you also live in the UK, so no thanks
@ Seductive Cheeto, every part of what you said is wrong. In Canada we have free healthcare. Our medical technology is literally the exact same as the USA, and the wait list thing is for specialists, not general medicine. If you need an appendectomy or heart surgery or anything that is immediately threatening, you get taken care of immediately.
A lot of people in market healthcare systems like to comfort themselves by telling themselves free health care is bad because you have to wait forever. This a comforting lie.
Last week I went to my doctor because of a consistent cough I have. He sent me for a chest x ray. I had the x ray twenty minutes after it was prescribed, and he had the results two minutes after that, and he gave me an inhaler to try using three minutes after that.
And the whole thing cost me nothing. Paying 13% taxes is totally worth all of the shït my government gives me in exchange.
@allanahrae, unless you're fat or you smoke. Then they'll just let you die.
@I Are Lebo, So you got an x-ray and an inhaler? So what?
How about you try starting Dyalisis? Oh wait, a panel has to decide if you're even worth getting the treatment and treatment starts in two months.
Oh no you have cancer and have to start chemotherapy, see you in 3 months if a panel of doctors decides you might have a chance. On top of that your hospice system is a joke.
And that's bs on the heart surgery, most of the specialized surgeons that were in Canada have moved to the US or work for US companies on Canada, so you either have to live hooked up to life support for months until your queue either dies out or gets the surgery or shell out an exorbitant amount of money to go to the US.
@I Are Lebo, I got an X-ray a couple weeks ago because I tested positive for TB at a free clinic, had to pay 35 bucks in copay for the x-ray though. Took 3 days for the doctor to get and analyze the results, turns out I tested positive for tuberculosis on the x-ray as well and had to go to a pulmonologist for extra testing and to start a treatment plan. Got an appointment and went the week after that, got a biopsy and then went home, paid nothing cause I use student insurance. The Friday of that week I was called back in and told I have latent TB and was put on antibiotics, paid 50 bucks for the copay and the prescription. Now I just have to go to the nearest CVS to get my refill for 15 bucks in about 20 days.
I saw a specialist, got a specialized lab test, was diagnosed, and began treatment all in one week. Can you do that in Canada? Nope, you have to sit and wait with a latent infection for God knows how long just hoping it doesn't become active.
@ Seductive Cheeto, my uncle is currently going through chemo. His sessions started immediately after his diagnosis, are one week apart, and he has blood work done before every session. My grandfather had diabetes, he had no issues getting the meds or doctor visits. My physician has dialysis machines running from beginning of shift to end of shift.
You do not know what you are talking about.
Specialists are a problem here. I'm not denying that. I needed to see a nerve specialist and it took five months wait for a five minute meeting.
But for primary stuff like ANYTHING life saving, you are completely wrong.
@ Seductive Cheeto, as for panels of people determining wether or not people are worth the medicine? That's America, not Canada. My uncle currently undergoing chemo is a lifelong alcoholic with a mental disability. He's a loser in practically every way possible, he works a shït job in a factory, has an adult son that is not codependent, and leads an incredibly unhealthy lifestyle. Chain smoker from childhood, excessive alcohol consumption, zero exercise, you name it. Honestly I'm surprised he's still alive.
His chemo started the same week as his diagnosis.
@ Seductive Cheeto, if you want to lie to yourself to make yourself feel better, I don't really care. But when you start lying about my country on an open forum to make yourself feel better, I'm gonna speak up. The USA has such shït 'healthcare' it's unbelievable. No one in Canada has ever had a workshop accident and then been made to choose which finger to keep. No one in Canada gets injured at work and says "oh no! I can't afford this".
If your solution to unpayable medical fees really is to just default on your payments, and you think THAT'S an ideal solution, then I may be just wasting my breath, because that's lunacy. Good luck ever getting a mortgage or a loan. Your credit rating will be in the toilet.
@allanahrae, how does an illegal Mexican get to the U.k.? Asking for a friend
@I Are Lebo, So you start off by lying straight up. The goal for beginning treatment in Canada is 28 days, for which only 75 percent of patients even achieve that, on top of that the waiting period to even see a consultant is within 14 days, but again only 75 percent of people see a doctor then. https://www.cancercare.on.ca/ocs/wait-times/systemicwt/
Even then those numbers seem iffy and play semantics due to this slightly contrasting report, which says "specialist physicians surveyed report a median waiting time of 18.3 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment." https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2015-report
So unless your uncle is lucky, you're lying, and even then he must have had a pretty simple cancer because if the second part of what you said about your uncle is true. Because death panels in Canada are not case by case, but treatment by treatment.
@I Are Lebo, It can be decided that a group of people that require a certain treatment, will simply not receive it. And an administrative committee can decide if someone with low chances of survival can even receive treatment..
@I Are Lebo, And no one in the US gets diagnosed with cancer and says "oh no! I hope it doesn't metastasize before I being treatment."
@allanahrae, not too many rattle snakes either.
@allanahrae, and Canada! 3 cheers for government giving a sh_t!
@I Are Lebo, I lived in Canada and had nothing but poor experiences with the healthcare system there. Personally I'd rather pay for my own treatment in the USA and get better quality treatment. But that's just anecdotal.
I mainly wanted to point out that people who get injured at work don't have to pay for their treatment. That's why workers compensation insurance exists. The employer's insurance covers the treatment for employees injured on the job.
@ Seductive Cheeto, So what you are saying is that. You would rather see a doctor and have your appointment happen more quickly. And not have to wait a couple extra days. At the cost of other people suffering from no insurance at all. Because whats 3 or 4 days longer to get it to see a doctor. When you can see him in 2. (So many people justify their line of thought and don't think about it this way. It sounds really self centered when you do). By the way you are incorrect about we having the best medical care. There are specialist all over the world. We may have the best of some things, but we don't have the best of every type of care. And a lot of people have it incorrect about government healthcare. It's not government run hospitals. It's a government run insurance system. There is a significant difference there. Competition is already limited by state borders. So there no chance of costs going down. Even if there were. Do you really think insurance companies will lower their costs
@Seohn, What I am saying is that I want to have a choice in the type and speed of care I receive and not have it rely on factors I can't control, I don't want to have to pay for other people's healthcare nor have other people decide the treatment plans I can or can't undertake. It's not 3 to 4 days longer, it's weeks to months, just check out the links I provided in my last comments. You're just ignorant to reality and don't believe that there should be personal freedom when it comes to healthcare, you just want big brother to decide what you need and when you need it.
How am I wrong? We're the leaders in medical innovation and have some of the best schools of medicine in the entire world.
@ Seductive Cheeto, you're quoting websites. I'm quoting personal experience. Maybe I've been lucky, I dunno. But I've been in Canadian ERs several times, and I've been to American ERs twice. The wait times were comparable, and that's discounting the times I was 'lucky' enough to be injured at non critical times and was able to be seen by a doctor within twenty minutes.
Canadian oncologists are pretty quick, dude. They're not inept bunglers and realize that with malignant neoplasms time is of the essence.
@UMad, that's a fair point.
Besides, some European healthcare coverages make both Canada and the US look like savages in comparison. Like Holland. Or Denmark.
@I Are Lebo, What do ER's have to do with anything? and are you saying that analogies are worth more than statistics? tf?
So what? They can be the best oncologist in the universe and still not have any power in how quick you begin treatment
@ Seductive Cheeto, I've changed my mind. I don't like you're lying. I think you are simply regurgitating the lies that have been spoon fed to you from infancy made to justify a system that routinely attaches financial values to human suffering.
The United States (by which I mean Americans) love boasting about being the best, but the truth is, the only way to receive adequate health care in the United States without it bankrupting you is to be rich.
Your arguments are hypocritical and illogical. "I want to have a choice in the type and speed of care I receive and have it not rely on factors I can't control".
You are not in control of American healthcare coverage and I have idea what's led you to think you do. Part of your taxes ALREADY cover other people's healthcare, it's just a smaller percent than in Canada, with a smaller payout if you yourself need it. Where did you think the money for unemployment comes from?
@ Seductive Cheeto, America is far from being the leader of medical innovation, and while some of the best medical schools are in America, not all of them are.
The wait times for specialists are a little crazy here, mostly because the American private system pays more and so the doctors that care more about profit than patients leave. The specialists here are overworked, but if I have a funky rash or an annoying ache, I would MUCH rather wait 6 months (during which the problem may go away on its own) than pay ten thousand dollars to get it looked at.
But even still, I DO have a choice. If I want to pay extra I can. In Canada we DO have private clinics that you can be seen at immediately for extra cost.
You're talking out of your ass about things you don't understand. I've been suffering from chronic leg pain since I was 16 (I'm 29 now). I KNOW the Canadian healthcare system. I've had MRIs, CT scans, X Rays, nerve conduction tests. I've been to urologists, dermatologists, muscular
Specialists, nerve specialists, coronary specialists, ENTs, chiropractors, chiropodists, physiotherapists, and psychologists.
I'd be bankrupt several times over if I had a third of the tests done in the USA.
If getting a life saving operation necessitates a lifetime of debt, your system sucks. It's really that simple. ESPECIALLY if the surgery (and therefore the debt) isn't consented upon.
Do you have any idea how many people declare bankruptcy in American hospitals? I'm seriously asking.
@I Are Lebo, How am I lying? I showed you one article by the Canadian government showing how slow it is to get care for cancer, and then a survey report showing how much slower getting care in general is.
You're just simply saying analogies and useless rhetoric while ping ponging the argument around to make your side seem reasonable. How is that possible? A ton of Americans would be dead. How are my arguments hypocritical and illogical? How do I not have a choice in that? I can choose to spend my money on whatever I want, What insurance I want, What treatment I want, whenever I want. Just cause something might be too expensive doesn't make it not a choice.
Yeah, I don't agree with that, it's my money. It's that system that's raised insurance and care prices in the past couple years.
Again you go back to ping ponging and switching what we're talking about so you can make even a modicum of sense.
@I Are Lebo, Where am I talking out of my ass? and we do have the best innivation? Who has better tech than us?
You're a moron if that's how you view disease, idiots like you die every day from not getting something as menial as a rash checked out.
You do realize that your private healthcare costs more than ours does right? So you're paying taxes at a high amount, and you have to pay even more if you want private healthcare, just to be treated in full hospitals with aged technology.
Bro I don't give a crap about your analogies, and with a decent job you can get insurance that covers all of that.
Do you have any idea how many people die while waiting for care in Canadian hospitals? I'm seriously asking.
@ Seductive Cheeto, okay, then I'll be specific. My mom had breast cancer when I was young. She received care quickly and thoroughly. My mom's mom had breast cancer when I was a child, same deal. (They both lived, though both had partial mastectomies) The same grandmother had lung cancer when I was an adult. Same thing. Quick, quality care. My mom's dad had esophagus cancer eight years ago. Quick, quality care. My uncle has bladder cancer now. Quick, quality care. My dad's mother had three different types of cancer, the last of which was liver. I had another uncle with colon cancer. Same thing.
Not a single family member of mine with cancer waited more than two weeks to begin treatment, and other than two of the men who ignored their symptoms, and the really old ones, all lived.
Personal experience trumps website references. I really don't care wether or not you believe me.
@I Are Lebo, You're either lying or just very lucky, but with just useless analogies and no facts or data you have no argument
@ Seductive Cheeto, and for the record, for someone working minimum wage, a procedure being too expensive is absolutely the removal of choice. So many people in the USA die because they cannot afford the procedures they need.
Whereas here, for every type of medication that is not covered by my health plan, there's a no name brand version that is. There's lots of choice here.
I'll reiterate. You do not know what you are talking about. Maybe try talking to a doctor rather than blindly believing every website article you read.
@I Are Lebo, Umm one of the articles was by the Canadian government and the other by a research institute...
Yeah, cause universal care raises the price of medical care and drugs, but you're just gonna ignore that aren't you. For every type of medication not covered by your medical plan you have to pay stupid high prices or get your prescription in the US bud lol
You're the one that knows nothing dude, you've said meaningless rhetoric and bs this entire time. You haven't proven a single thing I've said to be wrong and in your attempts to continuously win the argument by changing the subject you've made yourself look like a brat plugging his ears and saying "la-la-la I can't hear you, this happened to me so it's obviously like this la-la-la" lmao
@ Seductive Cheeto, Transplant wait times are based on the availability of donor organs, so that's a different issue. What's your source on the way time data? My mum had her hip replaced last week - think it was about 8 weeks from the doctor deciding she needed it till she was admitted. Went in on Saturday, home on Monday with crutches and a tonne of drugs - no bill to settle.
I had an emergency appendectomy when I was 12 - woke up in pain one Saturday morning, saw doctor at 9am, admitted to hospital around noon, in to surgery about 9pm, home on Monday. Surgery, dressings, drugs, follow-ups - cost me nothing (I was 12 so didn't pay taxes yet).
@Permanentlyhandsome, Jump on a flight to France, sneak on a lorry at Calais, walk in to a police station claiming to be from Libya, claim asylum, request a National Insurance number and head over to your local hospital.
@Nellybert , Jesus your poor my mom, my grandma had a knee replacement not too long ago and she had it the day after she was told she needed it. But joint replacement surgeries aren't transplants tho, they're replacements, as in replacing it with a working part and not transplanting it from another host. The joint replacements are always made of metal now, there are certain ligaments that can be transplanted like in your foot or knees, but those are usually from injury and not joint problems.
Okay you had emergency surgery, so did I, so?
@ Seductive Cheeto, I know - I wasn't equating it with a transplant, I was giving an example of the timescale for elective surgery.
I was using the appendectomy thing to highlight that we got comparable levels of care, so neither system sucks.
Both the social system and the insurance model have pros & cons - let's just agree on that, metaphorically shake hands and get back to the original point that taking a selfie with a rattlesnake is a bad idea in any country.
@ Seductive Cheeto, I love the fact that you act like the US health care system is in any freaking way "speedy". I've had a torn meniscus in my left knee diagnosis was in July, have to travel 45 minutes to a different city just to get an appointment that's wasn't in the end of October. Still waiting till the middle of September and I'm a line mechanic for a major airline I'm on my feet all day, crawling, bending, climbing, literally every action they tell you to avoid with an injured knee. So don't pretend our health cares anything but expensive as shît with long wait times
@Nellybert , But transplant isn't an elective surgery...
Sure I agree with that, I was just shjtting on the guy before you cause he was spouting a bunch of crap.
@ Seductive Cheeto, Elective surgery is anything which is planned in advance because it's not an emergency - so a hip replacement is elective.
@Tranceraver, Where do you even live? All you need is an MRI and an M.D. to get diagnosed, then an orthopedic surgery to either stitch it or remove which is a simple procedure that can be done outpatient, I don't even think you're supposed to wait that long at all!
@Nellybert , Sure, but you can't put an elective surgery such as a hip replacement and place it with a semi-elective surgery like a heart transplant. Even then one uses inorganic mass produced materials, and the other uses living organs
@ Seductive Cheeto, I live in Michigan where we have both some awesome hospitals and some of the most premiere medical colleges in the union still waiting for months for a basic surgery, sadly mines not a stitch but a meniscuseptomy gotta cut it out
@ Seductive Cheeto, huh. So that's what that feels like.
I do totally agree with you on one thing. Medication not covered by health plans ARE expensive as balls here. If I get prescribed something by my doctor and it isn't covered, typically I don't get it. Unless I go BACK to my doctor and get an alternative prescription, which is a pain in the ass.
Look, I'd never argue that Canadian Health Care is the best. It isn't. It's got a lot of pitfalls and beurocrasy fücks everything up.
But your argument about Canadian healthcare being shït because you gotta wait months for crappy service simply is not true. American healthcare is so terrible there have been several documentaries made solely about that fact.
As for meaningless rhetoric, what meaningless rhetoric? I've shared personal experience that contradicts your statistics. That's not rhetorical.
@Toxia, I work for an insurance provider and it's not so much that they want discounts, they have contracted rates that doctors and hospitals agree upon. Providers can bill whatever they want But by having insurance the patient is protected by having a lower billed billed amount. Saves money for the patient and insurance. Not so much for providers
@I Are Lebo, i would probably consider shooting someone if I could get my Effective federal tax rate down to only 13%......it's already above 20% now. Which for me is over $60,000 a year just in Federal. Imagine how much a 10% or 13% "healthcare tax" would cost me........ I am Perfectly fine paying the $13,000 a year I pay now to cover my wife and son.....unless the US can figure out a health tax that's only 4% of Gross Income. Under a flat healthcare tax I probably would have paid Ten Times what you pay in....to see that same Dr you saw for your Xray. You can take that plan and shove it........
@JDtennis, I am unclear as to your point. Are you for or against Canadian healthcare?
Your point is not very clear. Also what's with the pauses? This is written dialogue, not spoken. Dramatic pauses in written speech is pointlessly melodramatic.
@I Are Lebo, I think the point is, why not just go to work and give all your money to the government and you can support those that don't wanna work. Or why work at all when the government is gonna provide everything you need? Why try to work harder and get a raise or a better job when you're just gonna be taxed more and all that money will just go to the lazy?
@meNoP, ummm. I can't really comment on that. I'm one of the lazy.
Cards on the table here. I'm 29, I live on government support because the specific nature of my disability (I've been diagnosed with high functioning aspergers) I've never been able to hold down a job for more than three months.
It's easy to say "why should I have to pay for other people" when you only consider yourself. But the truth is, that is exactly the entire point of society. Banding together to be stronger as a unit. Having each other's backs. "Every man for himself" is a great sentiment when you're on top. But when you hit rock bottom your hand will go out like anybody else's.
Even besides that fact, your argument has zero merit. Everyone pays taxes. The difference between the USA and Canada is relatively tiny. The difference is all in how the money is used.
@I Are Lebo, it's easy to say that we should be banding when you're just mooching off the government. I'm 30 and I'm disabled but I still find a job I can do so I can contribute to society instead of just living off the disability that I could be getting. As much as I'd like to be a stay at home dad, what kind of example would that show my kids? No one is entitled to anything.
@ Seductive Cheeto, I'm not ignorant of reality. My cousin says German healthcare system works great. He talks about how good it is compared to when he was living here. And you're not paying for other people's health care. You're paying for your own. You like to twist your view of reality because you've been brainwashed to believe that current system is the best.
The proof that you've been brainwashed. Is because you call it paying for other people's health care, instead of thinking of it as paying for your own health care. If its a government run health insurance system. You're paying for your own health care first. Do you realize that when you purchase current health insurance you're paying for other people's health care too. That insurance money gets used on other people until you have something wrong. The exact same thing if it was a government health insurance system. That's how you know you've been brainwashed. You think of it only as paying for other people's health care.
@I Are Lebo, you are right. Americas do like boasting about being the best. There was even a running joke that was more than just a joke because there is statistical fact to back it up. That America is only number one at being overconfident.
@meNoP, I agree completely. No one is entitled to anything. If I couldn't receive support from my government, I'd have to do something else to support myself. I'm convinced that if I was born a hundred years ago I'd have been a beggar.
But the system exists for a reason, and I'd be foolish to not take advantage of an opportunity.
We are going to see a radical shift in what it means to be a productive member of society in the near future, as technology evolves and more and more jobs become automated. We are already at the point where there are more people than jobs.
Factory workers, labourers, even cashiers and bank tellers are becoming obsolete.
"Grow up and get a job" is not a viable answer. Adaptation is key to survival.
But really truly, there's a much simpler fact that makes the philosophical aspect to this issue redundant. I don't answer to you. I don't have to justify my life to anyone.
@ Seductive Cheeto, Perhaps you've been so brainwashed that you think you have a choice too. When you purchase health insurance you are limited to what doctors they allow you to visit. So the the only choice you really have is in who you picked is your Insurance provider. But even that is still a limited choice. Very limited since there are only a few companies within each state. And with a government run health Insurance system. It's not going to change the level of care. It's a government run insurance system. Not a government mandatory pricing system for hospitals and doctors. Although sometimes I think perhaps there should be. Because why are those prices so insanely high. How do they justify that as something other than price gouging. Which is illegal in the United States.
@I Are Lebo, so you don't see a problem if someone like me paid $30,000 a year towards a "healthcare tax" while someone else pays say a measly $4,000 a year? And the two of us wind up at the same Dr getting the same care? That's the type of shyte that civil wars break out over. Back to your original post. So you Don't pay 13% in taxes? Only 13% on what little you do make? Jesus, no wonder you like your healthcare system. Also, I hate short sentences and connect with dots so someone can breathe and think about what they are reading. I would be for a "Canadian Style" healthcare system provided I don't pay a shyte ton of money for the same care as someone who pays little to nothing. At least currently in the US my healthcare premiums are running me right at $13,000 a year to cover my family. If they instituted a 'healthcare tax' here, I would Not want to pay More for what I already have.
@JDtennis, what kind of lifestyle are you living where you pay $30,000 a year in health care taxes? First and foremost, that is what I want to know. What on earth is your total tax expenditure if the medicaid alone is thirty grand?
Unless you're making several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year or more, that number cannot possibly right.
@JDtennis, I'm sorry, your math isn't adding up at all right now.
I'm thinking some wires have been crossed.
When I say 13%, I'm referring to the additional charge on transactions.
@Seohn, i've been in the healthcare industry for 17 years and I can tell you that illegal immigrants and their offspring, frivolous lawsuits, malpractice insurance costs, mountains of paperwork, regulations, errors, duplication, problems with insurance payments, and very poor AR collection success of hospitals has more to do with high prices than "price gouging" does. We're Giving healthcare and medications to 100,000,000 people in the US, the rest of us are paying the price. There's 70,000,000 people on Medicaid. Very few of the pay enough taxes to even cover the cost of what they consume. What percentage of gunshot victims in the gang turf wars do you think Pay their hospital bills when rushed to the inner city ER? Nearly None. What percentage of illegals are paying their maternity ward bills while they've been dumping their 40,000,000 anchor babies here? Nearly None. How 'bout The junkies that are being revived by EMS, or transported to ER's? Nearly None.
@JDtennis, it sounds like you're arguing against your own side. All of that sounds like a negative review of the market variation of healthcare that the USA supports.
@JDtennis, even if they are giving Health Care and medication to people who don't pay it back. Do you realize places like Walmart has more product stolen every day then the number of people that go to the hospitals for care that are illegal. Yet they don't charge $500 for am aspirin. It doesnt cost $20,000 to rent a hotel room. Why does it cost that much just to be in a room at a hospital. How do they justify such high prices. Considering people are hurt every day. How is it a rattlesnake bite like that with a couple days in the hospital. Cost enough money to pay 3 people a $50,000 dollar a year salary.
Sounds like a pre-existing condition
@The Dank Secrets, this better be sarcastic haha
@Runnin with scissors, *in a sarcastic tone* "nothing i ever say is sarcastic"
Therapy and Radiology for a snake bite? Press X to doubt.
@Tremor Dominus, guys name is Todd Fassler...actual bill from a rattlesnake bite. And it's so messed up that it costs that much
@bfox13, he tried to take a selfie with a rattlesnake, and the snake gave him a massive dose of venom, requiring massive doses of antivenom, from 2 different hospitals. Hence the $83K pharmacy bill. I agree that the bill sounds high, but he should have insurance. If he didn't, then he shouldn't be taking rattlesnake selfies. Darwin award effort thwarted by medical care. (X rays are helpful to show subcutaneous air and necrosis, which would occur for a major snakebite)
@occasionalmutant, I don't care how good your insurance is, taking a rattlesnake selfie is never going to be a good idea!
@Tremor Dominus, Nah, that seems about right. They probably only did a few x-rays; most of it goes to the radiologist.
@occasionalmutant, well while agree with you that messing with obviously dangerous stuff is dumb. I think it's a little naive to blame someone who doesn't have insurance for not having insurance. I make too much to be a leech and get free insurance, but not enough to buy insurance that will cover anything.
@occasionalmutant, haha I didn't say he wasn't an idiot. My point was, yes it's real and the medical bill is insane! The main reason being: antivenom is at about a 70% markup due to hospital negotiations with insurance companies!
@bfox13, thats what happens when you skimp on insurance. totally sucks but thats why you go premium, just in case something insane happens that you couldnt possibly imagine
It's a common practice for US hospitals to bill 2-5 times more than the patient's real cost of care in order to cover the costs of patients who don't (or can't) pay. Unfortunately, in this way it works like retail stores that have to raise prices to cover the losses for theft.
Chances are that a bill of this amount to an uninsured patient would be settled for less than half. An insurance company might also settle the bill for much less based on the ongoing business relationship between the hospital and insurance, as well as the hospital simply wanting the security of actually being paid
@JDPhi, the inflated prices of today are due to insurance companies brokering 'deals'. Hospitals used to up charge maybe 10-15% at most. Mild profit margins to cover their services. When insurance came into the scene, prices started going much higher just to cover the lost price from the insurance deals. If it worked as intended, healthy people pay the insurance company, then when someone needs a hospital the insurance pays most of the bill and the insured covers the rest, then it'd be fine, but it's gotten so out of hand due to the upcharges they implement now on top of the reduced value of a dollar.
83k worth of antivenom? That's like a gallon
I'd take my chances with sucking the poison out
They have this thing called a B4 needle at Amazon that should suck the venom out. Spread the word.
@CRIZZLE290, nope that's been proven to be mostly ineffective.
@Runnin with scissors, im not sure I'd want to wait for it to be delivered either. :)
@iOS10, even with prime.. you still dead.
My father had a heart attack in Florida and all he wanted was to be home. The hospital sent out a request for a vest he could wear that would allow him to fly home (kind of like an external pacemaker) and it took the insurance five weeks to deny it. Two weeks after he was dead. Imagine getting that rejection in the mail knowing he never got to go home to family and friends and died across the US
Spiderman was bit by a spider....
You was bit by a snake.. you are now snakeman
I work in intermediate care and had no idea it costs that much!
"Special services" better have been paying a hooker to go down on while he read the bill, just to ease the pain.
Would have been cheaper if he died
My bill was once 300k. Thanks Appendix
So do people get therapy after snake bites then?
Date on receipt is from 2015. Either they are super late in posting the pic or they just now got the bill