Whether Moore did that stuff or not... don't make a comment at a professional comedian unless you already know you're gonna get killed in the reply.
Anyone know if there's any proof of these accusations? I've heard he was banned from a mall then the mall manager denied that, I heard he wrote something in a year book but no proof he actually wrote,etc. And then there are the now famous unnamed sources saying stuff that has become so popular under Trump. Not saying this dude isn't a creep (He is a politician after all), but has anyone actually tried to prove any of the accusations?
@Oujosh29, I mean there's the whole thing about him meeting his now wife when she was 15 and he was like 30. I'm not saying anything worth accusing him of happened with that, they didn't actually start dating until later, but it kinda makes the other stuff feel more plausible.
@Oujosh29, in today’s society all that is needed for discrediting someone is accusations. In cases of politics and college sexual assault, the “perpetrator” is often punished if only “plausibility” is proven. You can read up on this on your own, but yeah, it’s pretty sick. The whole “innocent until proven guilty” fabric of our justice system is largely ignored in these sorts of things unfortunately.
@Oujosh29, also that signature is identical to the one he signs official documents with
@Oujosh29, they are unproven accusations. As with anything nowadays, once someone is accused, the media takes it and runs with it before anyone actually investigates it
@Commander Peanuts, that sounds hilariously Alabamian, but isn't proof of anything
@Oujosh29, for me there’s sufficient evidence with people who’ve worked for him coming forward about it as well, corroborating several of the accusers stories. The fact that not just the establishment republicans, but a good portion Trump campers have also abandoned him with only the most central to his side of the party sticking with him (and even so, with exception to Trump, they refuse to support him by name when interviewed, only stating that they don’t want a pro choice man in the seat Roy’s competing for, even when directly asked if they were still endorsing him they duck the question).
I try my best to only knock those I disagree with when there’s legitimate reason, and while there’s no direct DNA evidence thus far, there’s enough smoke, paired with corroborated stories from others close to him, that the chance of no fire being there is abysmal.
@Donald Drumpf, has an expert compared the signatures? I'm espically suspicious of claims like these when they just happen to be made during an election. Wouldn't put it pasted someone to forge a signature. But if an expert looked at it and said it was legit, that would be real evidence
@Oujosh29, as far as I'm aware that was suggested at some point and if you hadn't noticed there's a lot of sexual assault being brought forward recently
@Sven and Otar, understandable and I agree. The amount of proof people require after accusations seems incredibly flexible too. A former coworker of mine wants to wait until there's charges and a conviction but when Hillary was investigated and never charged he thought she still was too untrustworthy and that somehow the EVO was in her pocket.
@Oujosh29, Roy Moore and his team have asked for handwriting experts to examine the yearbook claiming it was forged. Media outlets then said there isn't enough info for handwriting analysis or that even if there was it wouldn't exonerate him. Of course as someone else already said above "his signature in the yearbook is identical to the one he signs official documents with". I find it hard to believe that his current signature would be identical to his from 40 years ago.
@WhoseLineIsItAnyway, Inocent until proven guilty is still very much a thing in our justice system thankfully. The problem is outside the justice system where people get to worked up about this topic that mob mentality takes over when, even if hes found innocent in court, the media drags the mans name through the mud, his job will probably fire him, he'll get kicked out of college if he's attending one, and his personal friends and family might even distance themselves.
@Weird Porn Stash, exactly my point. It’s a damn shame.
@Richard Cypher, this so true but one thing that makes me trust the media, or at least Washington post, a slight bit more is the whole attempt at a false report by project veritas sending someone claiming that they had a sexual relation and an abortion. If it were just purely that media did it for gain that would've been a career ending story and they would've loved to run it. But they had some journalistic integrity and pressed the woman and found her story didn't hold up at all
@SirLoveday, she is untrustworthy, they may not have had sufficient evidence to convict but much like this nonsense with the sexual harrassment accusations every hour on the hour, there's too much smoke to make most people believe the shot wasn't fired
@Medic135, I was merely using her as an example of the way that the burden of evidence is often a moving line for people when it conflicts with their firmly held beliefs. How some would scream one person acquitted on all charges is guilty and another is innocent because they like one and not the other.
I have no desire to discuss the trustworthiness of past candidates.
@SirLoveday, well, in your friends defense Hillary's case was one of the most blatant examples of breaking the law there is in regards to handling classified info. It took a secret meeting between bill and lynch and comey literally making up nonexistence criteria to let Hillary off the hook
@Oujosh29, it was his signature lol
@Oujosh29, Well, he did admit he only dated the girls with parents' permission.
@Oujosh29, I believe the dozen women who have come forward and given their stories as well as the corroborating evidence from the time and the people who knew him. If I was on a jury it probably wouldn’t be enough evidence to convict but I’m not in a jury. I’m not deciding to take away a man’s freedom and send him to jail. I do however think it’s enough that he should not be a member of the United States Senate. That’s why I donated the max to Doug Jones and hope others do too. On the one hand we have a man who was kicked off the bench twice and spent most of his thirties chasing children on the other we have a man who spent that time prosecuting the KKK for killing children. I don’t see how this is a debate.
@Oujosh29, Not saying it’s explicitly incriminating, but when your lawyer goes on national television to try and explain ways in which it’s acceptable for grown ass men to fvck teenagers, it’s possible there’s some truth to the implications.
@Dragoon0106, It depends where you stand politically, Doug Jones supports abortion, for some this is viewed as baby killing, why would they vote for the person they find morally reprehensible. Not saying it is right to think that not am I taking sides, but you have to be able to see from a viewpoint that is not your own.
@Autismo, I mean I understand that people feel that way. I do. But I can’t wrap my head around it.
@Dragoon0106, after looking it up, there does seem to be a lot of smoke. Personally I'd like something concrete, like a police report or a hand writing expert to examine the signatures. If the women refuse to hand over the yearbook/card, that's a red flag, because everything I read was stuff the women said without any physical evidence that's been seen by experts
As for why people won't vote for someone pro choice, they probally believe abortion is the same as genocide. So, on that case, which would you pick,someone whose been accused of something, or someone who supports genocide against the unborn? Not saying you should agree with it, but it's understandable
@Oujosh29, I mean I understand not voting for someone who believes we should commit genocide. I still cannot make the leap that Doug Jones supports genocide. I’m a guy, I won’t ever need an abortion so I honestly believe my only day in the matter should be to let women say their piece.
@Dragoon0106, well, you probably will think you should get a say if it's your baby the girl is thinking of aborting. I'm very much against abortion, and I think it is akin to genocide (though I'm not putting that on Doug Jones, not like he could change Roe vs Wade). I don't think I'd ever vote for a pro abortion candidate. Then again, I probally wouldn't vote for Roy Moore.
@Oujosh29, I mean I had a pregnancy scare once in my life, turned out to be fine, but my only reaction was I’ll support any decision you make. I’m not the one who needs to go through carrying a child and birth. I don’t think anyone should ever be forced to sacrifice their body for anyone else. We don’t take blood if someone doesn’t want to donate, we don’t even take organs from the dead unless they’ve consented previously, and we’re going to make women carry children for nine months and then give birth in what is still an incredibly dangerous procedure. The US still has some of the highest levels of death in childbirth of any industrialized nation. If you are against abortions more power to you. Don’t ever get one. But I don’t see what right you have to put that on anyone else.
@Dragoon0106, well, if it's just about the woman's body you'd be right. But abortion is about killing the baby's body. Kind of hard to make it all about the girl when it's primarily affecting a third person. It's akin to seeing me being carjacked and shrugging, saying "I wouldn't carjack anyone, but it's their choice". Yes, that's not a perfect analogy, but it's the same thought process as many who are pro life.
And the US only has higher birth rate death because we use the most fertility drugs/procedures and many countries don't count babies as being alive for just being born like the US. Most other countries pad their statistics by saying a life birth only counts if the baby was born over a certain weight, lived longer than 15 mimutes, etc.
@Oujosh29, here’s my take on that situation with the whole not wanting to support a pro-choicer. The issue of abortion isn’t going to change because Roy Moore isn’t in office over Doug Jones. One senator won’t resolve the issue, but you can’t call Roy Moore a defender of children when there’s sufficient evidence to say he preys upon them. My mother was president of a chapter of the Right to Life movement in North Carolina, even she said that in this instance the only morally upright and Christian thing for the party to do is concede this race or put forth someone more worthy of the position for those unwilling to vote for a pro-choice candidate, even if they’ll lose. When I asked what she would do (pt 1)
@Oujosh29, to me it’s the fact that bodily autonomy is the utmost in our society. If you’re dying due to kidney failure, you have no rights to my kidney. No matter whether I’d be fine without it, which I very well might be, no matter even if I’m dead. You have no rights to my body even if it will save your life. For me it’s the same thing.
@Oujosh29, she said she’d vote for Doug if the party refuses to concede or put up another candidate because being pro-life is based on the principle that all children deserve a life, to be safe, cared for, and protected *even the unborn* Essentially being pro-life isn’t about being just anti-abortion, but supporting and protecting those otherwise unwanted children even after they’re born. She would rather a man who is in her view mistaken on the issue of abortion be in power if it means that we don’t honor a man with power who would prey on those very children after they leave the womb because a victory in this particular skirmish on the war against abortion isn’t worthy of winning when the ethical cost is so high. I felt those were fairly powerful words
@Dragoon0106, well, unless your kidney was growing into a baby it's not the same thing. This is why abortion is impossible to really compromise on, and why some won't vote for Doug no matter what. Pro lifers see the fetus as an unborn person, not a kidney. Pro abortion people see the fetus as a lump of tissue. There's not much to talk about because there will always be a fundamental disagreement
@Oujosh29, in my metaphor the kidney isn’t the baby, you are. My point is you (the fetus) has no right to my body just because it will help you live. If a fetus can’t survive without a body to feed on then it only survives with that consent. If a fetus can survive on its own I think an abortion is amoral and you should get a C-section instead and hope it can survive.
@Sven and Otar, there's always the options of not voting, voting third party,or a write in vote. She doesn't have to vote for either of them
@Dragoon0106, that's an, interesting perspective. So a baby isn't a baby till after it can survive outside the body?
@Oujosh29, that’s one perspective, which is actually biblically supported in Genesis where it’s shown hat the breath of life, the first breath a person takes, is what makes one alive. But my point is that if you can’t survive on your own then you don’t get to force another person to do that at the expense of their own body. That if a person needs someone else to survive, that second person needs to consent to that fully. I view every abortion as a failure and hope that one day it never happens. That comprehensive sex education, access to contraceptives, and a robust welfare state make it so no one is ever forced to make that choice. But we aren’t there yet.
@Dragoon0106, well, that's an interesting argument for the pro choice side. But curious, let's say Doug had the scandal instead of Roy, would you vote for Roy knowing how pro-life he is?
@Oujosh29, no I probably wouldn’t. But I certainly wouldn’t vote for Doug Jones either. Republicans seem to have a pretty good write in candidate as an option or I’d be on the phone to Moore and the RNC every day pressuring them to tell him to step down. It probably means you lose the seat although it’s Alabama so who the heck knows but it’s the only way we show that this is unacceptable. I’d ask the same of Jones. Step down and don’t taint us like this. The Democrats just announced that the longest serving Democrat in the Senate is going to step down due to allegations that aren’t even close to this bad in my opinion, everyone was an adult at least. This is a man seen as a civil rights icon who was duly elected by his constituents and we are having him step down from his seat because of his actions. The party of family values deserves at least as much.
@Dragoon0106, I agree. The GOP should demand handwriting experts review the evidence presented. If they say they are Roy's handwriting, they should run a write in campaign. If it doesnt, I would think the accusations aren't enough.
I'm not sure what's going on with the Democrat guy, but I hope either there's proof or he knows he did it and feels guilty. Otherwise, no one should resign just over an accusation
@Oujosh29, I mean there’s some proof of the things that had happened in the past but nothing recent. He probably doesn’t think he really did anything wrong but the party certainly thinks so. These are our Senators. Just about the highest elected officials we have. If we can’t find two people in every state who can run without this crap on them then I don’t know what’s wrong with us.
@Oujosh29, the issue is the GOP didn’t do that. They’re holding their nose and just announced they’ll pour money back into Moore’s campaign with absolutely no investigation or questions asked. Family values.
@Oujosh29, accuser won't turn over the yearbook because they know it will be a proven forgery. Just like Obama's birth certificate.
@Dragoon0106, yeah, it sucks how political hardline both parties got. I can guarantee you the Democrat guy who resigned is in a safely blue district otherwise he would hang on for dear life, supported by his party. I was hopefully we might be doing better when the presidential campaign of 2012 had 2 good guys running, Obama and Romney, despite the animosity between parties. Then in 2016 we had Hillary and Trump, and I was like f*ck it
@Oujosh29, I mean, Moore is from freaking Alabama. You don’t get safer than that.
@Dragoon0106, and if he's innocent, he shouldn't drop out. That's why getting experts involved on the evidence is so important. I get there's multiple accusers and smoke, but it's accusations about stuff decades ago that just happen to come up during an election. There's no police reports or anything official.
I'm not saying it is made up, that many women who aren't connected with each other accusing him would be one heck of a conspiracy, but the timing is too suspicious. Espically when it would be relatively easy to verify at least some of the evidence. why doesn't the woman who claims to have his hand writing hand over her yearbook to an expert?
@Oujosh29, I don’t know. I don’t know what her deal is and for all I know maybe he never molested her. Maybe it’s just too much right now. The women have been getting death threats since this happened and I can’t say that everyone of them has been completely honest but I’d bet everything I have that in his 30’s Roy Moore dated and had sex with a child. There’s enough for that. Mitch McConnell, the man who probably hopes Moore gets elected more than anyone as it’s probably his biggest chance to keep his job, says he believes the women. I just don’t see another side.
@Dragoon0106, "believes the women". That's nice and all,but that's not proof. I know we're talking about court of public opinion so there isn't a standard of proof, but in my opinion it should take more than accusation (aka she said/he said) to torpedo someone's career. Then factor in the timing of the accusations (during an election) and it's about stuff decades ago.
@Oujosh29, I mean I don’t disagree. But there’s just too many. The timing I don’t really find suspect because it makes sense to me that the women would feel like now is he time to come forward, when it actually matters. My point is that if McConnell believes them I don’t know how other people can’t.
@Dragoon0106, for the reasons I stated, but belief isn't the big deal either. I don't automatically think they are lying, nor do I think he's completely innocent. I don't know, and there's fair points in each side but not enough proof for either side. Since the burden of proof should always be on the accuser, I don't think he should step down. Still wouldn't vote for the guy, just for a different reason.
@Oujosh29, I live in Alabama and it's just normal political crap. Baseless accusations against the republican candidate and Doug Jones campaign capitalizes on it in every ad we see from him. I've seen many people talk about how not believing the accuser is the same as taking the side of the offender and to me that is just retarded. "Oh so this random person said this person was bad? Well damn let's go stone him then." As you said, the burden of proof is on the accuser. With the yearbook case, she has refused to give the "evidence" over to experts. There are people who have known Moore for decades that testify to his strength of character, "oh but we don't care about that because they say nice things and we only want to drag someone through the mud." I don't follow either campaign really but I don't support some things Doug jones supports. Plain and simple. If actual hard evidence comes up to prosecute Roy for something then pick a different candidate, but the witch hunts need to stop.
Some Christian values kinda suck.
@Diabolik, which ones?
@Kliment Voroshilov, the only ones I can think of are the "Gays are bad mmmkay" which isn't a Christian value at all lmao. Christianity is fine, but people do crazy and stupid things, claiming that it's their religion, but it isn't
@Invalid User, Even if we accept the Leviticus, one shall not lie with a man..... bit it also says very many times it is not your job to judge the sinners. So the people that use that as an excuse to mistreat gay people are misguided at best.
@Kliment Voroshilov, Yeah, I'm not truly educated on the bible. Last I checked "Its not in the bible" was the biggest point. I guess this sinner should do his research. Thanks for the info!
@Kliment Voroshilov, mistreating as in attacking gays, you're right, that's not biblical. Not wanting to be associated with/bake a cake for them, that's ok biblically
@Oujosh29, I agree with you. Perhaps that wasn't clear enough in my comment but I believe in complete freedom of association.
@Kliment Voroshilov, it was a good comment, just clarifying "mistreatment".
@Kliment Voroshilov, I'm Gay. My church tried to convert me. Fück that. My God made me exactly the way I was supposed to be. So fück them. I know all Christians aren't bad, but my initial experience was messed up.
@Diabolik, I hear this "God made me this way" argument allot, but if we are accepting a literal interpretation of the bible (which I of course acknowledge is ridiculous) thats not really true. God created Adam and eve who were perfect. But by eating the fruit they blemished themselves with sin and created the fall of man.
You are a product of this fallen state. An imperfect being who sins just like the rest if us. I'm not saying that they were in the right to convert you but the God made me argument is poor defense at best. At least from a theological perspective.
This is weird coming from an atheist isn't it?
@Kliment Voroshilov, if you're an atheist then why ask? And if you're eluding to the fact that gays are the fücked up ones, I love you too 😘
@Diabolik, Because, while I am an atheist I see the importance of Christian values in the formation of the country and culture that I find myself in today.
@Diabolik, where was I eluding to gays being the fùcked up ones? If anything I was saying that everyone is fùcked up in their own way. I'm straight but I love you too though. 😗
Thoughts and Prayers
man to man? i thought thats against christian belief
hey whats the next generation called? like its millenials then whats next? just wondering
@SempiternalCurse, I believe they are "generation z" currently.