We're not all crazy I swear
@slurpieboy101, His first miracle was turning water into wine
@grayhome, shh, grapejuice.
@slurpieboy101, Yeah, I hope most people don't think that all Christians believe this. There are verses about alcohol which tell believers to abstain from drunkenness not all alcohol. The mention of wine was largely because it was a common alcoholic beverage of the time. Here's my sources: (Proverbs 20:1) Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise. (And by that it means to abstain from alcoholism and/or overindulgence).
(Ephesians 5:18) Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
@slurpieboy101, my understanding of it is that drinking isn't a sin, It's drunkenness that's the sin
@FriendlyPlatypus, pretty much. The Bible teaches moderation in all things. It's not don't eat good food, it's don't gorge yourself even after your full just because you can. It's not don't relax, it's don't laze away the life that has been given to you. And it's not don't drink it's not even don't get tipsy ( that can happen when your simply having a few with friends or whatever.) it's don't drink to the point of belligerent intoxication.
This is all taking the scripture out of context and that's sinful. Don't add or take away from the word in the bible.
@TheSeasonIAm, but how will they get their personal views across unless they use isolated scripture out of context?
@TheSeasonIAm, I had an argument with a like minded fellow about this before regarding context in the bible. Perhaps you’d be willing to help me reach some understanding?
What context is there that makes Peter 2:18 an acceptable message to deliver?
@I Are Lebo, go to bible gateway.com and search 1 Peter 2. Then scroll down to verse 11 under Living Godly Lives in a Pagan Society. Then read all the way down. I recommend reading it in the New International Version bc it breaks it down more into how we speak today.
@TheSeasonIAm, I’d really rather get your perspective on the context in which it is acceptable to be supporting slavery.
@I Are Lebo, I was just giving you a better context for it. With that I'm mind, the verse isn't supporting slavery. The text is about not causing chaos or letting yourself, Christians, to be consumed by mallice or what have you by those unknowing and list in a pagan society. Do as Jesus would do by caring, praying, and loving those who are lost and try guiding them to God. This text has nothing to do with supporting slavery, but you are taking it out of context and making it look like it is. It's essentially just telling people how to act and keep their self inpace within a non-Christian society.
@TheSeasonIAm, the verse specifically tells slaves to not rebel against their masters, regardless of how cruel they are. I’m not seeing how you’re getting that message out of it.
@I Are Lebo, have you read the section or just trying to counter what I'm telling you? If you haven't read it or tried understanding anything around this verse then there is nothing that I can do to help you understand it.
@I Are Lebo, also read the story of Joseph. He was a slave for a while and his story may give you more perspective on what this means
@TheSeasonIAm, I have read the sections, and it boils down to “if you are suffering stoically you are a good person”.
I see this in two ways. The first being masochism, which fits very well with many of the victim complexes I see from Christians, a good example of which are Christian business owners who claim to be the victim when they’re made to serve homosexual customers like they do any other customer.
The second is that this is not the only biblical passage endorsing slavery, or even sex slaves.
There’s no context here that makes that an acceptable, moral practice.
@TheSeasonIAm, the same book that labels homosexuality an abomination endorses slavery, cannibalism, rape, and in the case of the Old Testament, murder.
I just would really like to hear from a devout believer how that’s okay. How do you determine which parts of the Bible are Truth, and which are outdated or metaphorical?
@I Are Lebo, There is a misconception that Biblical slavery is in the same vein as what we in the West think of today, race based chattel slavery. Most individuals who were forced into compelled servitude where either prisoners of war, people driven into slavery by the inability to pay their debts, or criminals. They could get out of their condition, it was not hereditary, and it was not a matter of race or group identity. Therefore when we look at this we understand that it is wrong to force someone into slavery (a point repeated in the writings of the prophets in the Old Testament) due to the fact that we have difference consequences and legal systems due to the evolution of our socioeconomic systems. Now when someone can’t pay their debts, we put them in prison. However the advice still stands, the book is advising people that when they have been unfairly put in a position of powerlessness, it is to their advantage to carry that burden and not fight.
@I Are Lebo, Do you see anywhere in there a recommendation that you enslave people? No, simply that if you find yourself in that position and rise up against your oppressor, you will become as he was. However if all people follow the example of Christ and live life meekly, there would be no slaveholders. Or at least that’s how I see it. But I understand and respect the lack of patience for injustice, that’s a good instinct.
@I Are Lebo, man, I'm not getting into a giant religious debate on here. I come here for happiness, not to be told my religious beliefs are bs. Also some of those things you listed were cultural beliefs and not the religious Christian beliefs. Rape, slavery, cannibalism, and other such things were not righteous in the eyes of Jesus who came as the eyes and living testimony example for the people. I'm not an expert so I don't have all of the answers, and I'm smart enough to not get into an online debate with someone who is trying to get me to fail or argue.
@TheSeasonIAm, I’m not trying to tell you that your beliefs are bs, not am I trying to set you up for a failure.
I am trying to ascertain by what metric you determine which parts of the bible are the word of God and which parts aren’t.
It would probably help in this instance to know what your stance on homosexuality is. Would you please elucidate your stance on that?
Technically outright drinking isnt a sin, its getting drunk. Having a couple beers or glasses of wine has no harm, its when you drink enough to get drunk and make bad choices
*side-eyes people making "the liquor made me do it" excuse*
And I thought only the mormons deluded themselves into thinking wine in the bible was grape juice
@NotFlat, well, wine is grape juice, albeit fermented but still....
@NotFlat, who says this isn't from the Mormons?
I'm glad they cited their sources. That's how you know they're facts.
Ummm...the last supper...”this is my blood”...it was wine
The fact that I’m drinking some craft beer while I was scrolling and found this is funny as hell.
If Jesus drank water without booze mixed in he would have died. I meam before the whooe crucifixion thing.
Bobby Boucher, craft beer is the devil!