I honestly don’t have any clue as to why she’s trying to destroy her own legacy... it was amazing in its own rite
@Prince super Vegeta , It's honestly tarnishing the memories I made when I first read the book. In my opinion anything she says is non canon, its way too late to be adding shít on like this.
@Duncan5769, anything not in the published works is fan fiction. Even if said fan is the author.
@I Are Lebo, well not really. If it were like that it would have some stupid consequences like authors not being able to expand on their story specifically without publishing.
Also, even if we go by that definition, her changes, and I'm specifically talking about the dubledore one, is heavily hinted at, and probably will be even more later on, in her latest series, which is "published".
And also, by most definitions canon = whatever the fyck author wants, fanmade = not by original author. Simple as that.
@Draco9990, I completely disagree. The only way for an author to expand on their story is to publish more of it. That’s literally what it means to expand on a story.
Dumbledore being gay is canonical, at least if we include the Fantastic Beats movies into canon. Otherwise, if it’s not in the actual published books, it’s not canonical. It’s as simple as THAT. That is what canonical means.
@I Are Lebo, We could talk about definitions, and even though one of the definitions on urban dictionary is that it is the authors word that counts, I wouldn't want to use urban dictionary as some sort of base tho. Just wanted to point that out.
However, to reflect on your example. What counts as published tho? If you say published, you've created an objective measurement from something relatively subjective, which can't really work. Sure, books count. Do movies count, she helped in directing (I think)? Does Pottermore count? That is publishing, since it is on the official website. Most of her shyt goes there, and it is a published collection of her shytty additions, however it is published nonetheless. Does Twitter count? It is published publicly. If it doesn't, everything that she writes on twitter goes to Pottermore anyways, so why wouldn't Twitter count but Pottermore would?
These questions happen when you don't have a constant measurement of canonicity. 1/2
@I Are Lebo, 2/2 but if we take that there is a constant: autor writes it hence canon attitude, we solve the problem relatively simply. Imagine George R. R. Martin dies midway through writing his next book. Does that make the book not canon? It can't be since it isn't published. But it is supposed to be a canonical continuation? You see the point I'm trying to make?
@Draco9990, firstly, urban dictionary is not an authority on anything. It’s open source and can be edited by anyone.
Secondly, “published” in this regard means anything released for public consumption. Movies, books, comics, games, etc. A tweet is not a publication. Pottermore is a blog. That also does not count. If there is no editing or marketing part of the refinement process, it’s not published.
I see the point you’re trying to make, and it’s a bad one. You’re correlating creator with creation, and that’s not what canonization is. Making comments about a book and the putting it online is in no way comparable to establishing in universe character traits or event. You’re putting totally different things together as if they’re the same.
“Author write it hence canon” is a simple minded attitude that fails to understand narrative, drama, or even consistency.
@Draco9990, if George Lucas tweeted tomorrow that Luke and Leia had a threesome on the Millenium Falcon with Chewie, that wouldn’t make it canon.
@I Are Lebo, First of all, dayumm, downvoting for disagreement? Okay lol.
And of course urban dictionary is not an authority, I wrote I wouldn't take it as a base myself, but rather that I was just pointing out that there is my type of definition on there. Gotta read better before trying to counter me where I agree with you.
And secondly, you've got to be kidding me. Pottermore doesn't count and is just a blog? That is just a biggest load of bull I've read all day. Pottermore publishing is literally the company that publishes Harry potter and Fantastic beasts series. Like what. It is literally the same thing, in an online version, by a same *publisher*. Pottermore *does* count, as it is stated on the website, and now all problems you tried to avoid with your fallacious argument are back to bite ya, since your main point has just been proven false.
And by that I've also covered your last part of the comment, since I literally showed that those little comments about the book that 1/2
@Draco9990, I was frustrated by your attitude, but you’re right, that wasn’t called for. I removed the downvotes.
@I Are Lebo, 2/2 you hated so much are in fact the same thing as the books you are talking about.
Also, by your standards it wouldn't, but that wasn't my question. Does a book, that was supposed to be published in a week, now with a dead author count as canon?
@Draco9990, pointing out someone or something with no authority agreeing with you is a dishonest way of placing legitimacy on your argument. That would be like me saying that women can’t be sexist towards men and citing Feminist Frequency as backing that argument up. It’s disingenuous and fallacious.
As for Pottermore, I’ll be honest, when I commented the first time it was out of ignorance, having never actually been to the site before. Having looked it over I am quite confident in my analysis. It’s a very good blog, quite professionally put together. But it’s still a blog, albeit a rich and famous persons blog, attached to a store and sponsored by WB (presumably).
That site does not constitute as a publication.
@I Are Lebo, I'll agree with you on the first part. It holds no credibility and was a stupid move from me to end this conversation quicker.
However, the Pottermore stuff goes like this: Pottermore Publishing is the main holder of the franchise. It controls the publishing of both Harry Potter series, Fantastic Beasts, series, and every single publish on Pottermore. Pottermore itself says it is official (even though that is a bit circual reasoning) because their parent is Pottermore Publishing. Even if we give it a label of a blog, it doesn't really matter since it is redacted and published. Everything on it is canon, and by disregarding pottermore you would throw away hours of descriptions of other schools, factions and whatever, that was again, heavily edited and published.
However, I do believe I see where the problem stems here. You see canon as something that benefits the story and its contents while I see canon as authors ultimate word. For me, if Rowling wrote Harry and Ron 1/2
@I Are Lebo, 2/2 were fvckbuddies and Hermione loved to watch, id fvcking hate that she added that as canon, but accept it as canon nonethe less. For me it is: "I created you, I can destroy you.", and unfortunately that is what is canon all about.
Also, taking star wars is a horrible idea, I just remembered that they removed a shytton of published works from canon to make new movies canon. Now if here author doesn't have a word you have a black hole of shvttines
Edit: By author I mean current franchise holder in most cases.
@Draco9990, yes of course it would still count. What does the author’s current status have to do with the canonical nature of the work? The Silmarillion is canonical even though Tolkien died before it was published. It was published. I really don’t understand what’s difficult about this for you. Canon is the word denoting a unified storyline crossing multiple published works. It’s the publication of the work that matters. If G.R.R. Martin died and the rights to Game of Thrones were bought/given to another author, they’d be able to add to the canon by publishing more books or producing more shows. But if G.R.R. Martin teeeted that Jon Snow is actually a gay non binary transsexual black woman, that wouldn’t make it canon because it’s not part of the published works. Social media tweets, blog posts, or conversations are not publications.
@Draco9990, that’s exactly my point, though. The holders of the rights to Star Wars can declare what’s canonical and what’s not because the individual stories all have their own authors, and their say doesn’t matter. It’s not about declarations of fact, it’s about information contained within an actual published story.
And no, canon has nothing to do with benefitting a story or not.
I’m honestly going to have to walk away from this conversation. Your dishonest arguing tactics are really frustrating to me, as is your lack of listening.
@I Are Lebo, "It's the publication of the work that matters." This is literally our only quarrel lol. Publication is an unnecessary and complicated addition to a simple definition to create an illusion of order. Author created a franchise. Author owns the franchise. If author decides to write a book containing one line saying "Harry is gay." and have it published as Harry Potter 21, it is published and by you canon. If author tweets "Harry is gay.", it is not canon by you. That makes no sense, since both are same additions to the story with different publishing methods.
@Draco9990, in regards to someone finishing an epic tale of fiction after an author died... that happened with Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time Saga. The last three books were written by Brandon Sanderson. As far as the canon argument goes, it’s all fiction and taking any of it too seriously seems slightly unhealthy regardless of how well received certain aspects of it are. Enjoy it as far as you can, and ignore the stuff you don’t like. I love Star Wars, enough that I’ve read many of the books (Grand Admiral Thrawn, anyone?), but Disney making them non-canon doesn’t lessen my enjoyment of them. It’s fiction either way, people shouldn’t get so bent out of shape about that stuff. All that said, I feel like JK Rowling feels the need to try and stay relevant even at the expense of alienating many of her fans.
@Draco9990, one is an official publication that needs to be run through editing and refining. The other is open dialogue that has no barriers. You can’t get drunk and publish a book. You can get drunk and write a tweet. It’s not arbitrary, there’s a massive difference between Rowling publishing an eighth Harry Potter book in which Ron and Harry engage in a gay relationship and Rowling tweeting “Harry used to suck Ron’s dick when no one was looking”.
If you can’t understand that, there’s no point in continuing.
@I Are Lebo, honestly I'll apologise if I came off as dishonest or as someone who doesn't listen. I believe I've addressed my mistakes in debating and I know I gave my best to understand your point, but it seems I failed. I am honestly sorry if I offended you, it was not my goal.
However, I will say you make contradictory points, sometimes even in the same sentence, as it can be seen in your last comment so I don't believe this was a quality discussion from your part either.
But yeah, I gave my best to be as honest as I can be and if you believe you can say the same, it was a good discussion. Have a good day.
Edit since you responded: yeah drunk tweets are a thing. But so is deleting them and saying you were wrong when sober. And unless Rowlings on a drinking streak, she is sober by now and those tweets remain, still by her own word and valid as ever.
@Sarcastic Wombat, huh, I didn't know that. And yeah, both are fiction in essence, but today's society is quite hung on "canon" stuff. And yeah, of course she is saying all that to stay relevant, but that doesn't make it any less "canon" for those that want to separate canon from fiction. But you do have a point.
@Draco9990, I hold no animosity towards you and hope you also have a good day. For the record, I was frustrated, not offended. It just seems like you don’t see the difference between an author writing and publishing a book and the same author talking about said book and the two are very much not equivalent.
You make a really good point about fiction being fiction whether or not it has canonical status, but the canonical status was kind of the entire focus of the conversation.
Canon can cross authors. That’s why your stance of “the author said it, therefore it’s canonical” doesn’t fly.
Can you explain how I’ve contradicted myself? Because I don’t see what you mean.
@I Are Lebo, To my knowledge, the only thing saying that star wars movies are canon and books are not is the franchise holders words. That word didn't go through and publications, and while movies did, so did books, so their word should be the only thing separating. That doesn't seem to be true by your standards for jk rowling who owns the franchise, so I don't see how it holds. Not trying to decieve or mask your point or anything, that is how I got your point of discussion, and if I got it wrong, please explain.
Also I didn't make a point of canon being fiction for our conversation, you are looking at a wrong comment probably. (If I did, quote me, the last thing I want to be is to be dishonest after being called so once already lol).
However I will say that you have extremely good points too and I can see why you'd hold your definition of canon as I would hold mine since both are descriptive of a label canon, which has no definite meaning on itself.
@Draco9990, Anyways, gotta go sleep, 3am here and tired as fck, have a good day and I'll try to reply when I wake up, if you do comment, of course. Night!
@Prince super Vegeta , this is the price of mental illness.
@Draco9990, except that’s not accurate. The events in the books are never referenced or involved in the movies. As much as I loved the stories following Jacen and Jaina Solo, they’re now non canonical because the movies contradict them. My own fan reaction is to separate the timelines into movies and books, but that’s my own headcanon, not the official canon. Unless one of the movies or shows references Revan in some way, (which would counter the declaration of non canon) it’s not just the words of businessmen, it’s the content of the published works corroborating.
I mistook Sarcastic Wombat’s comment with yours. My bad. It was a good point though. When you start talking about whether or not something happened in a fictitious story, you gotta remember none of it actually happened, canon or not.
My point was just that leaving such leeway for authors isn’t really reasonable. I myself am an author, and my attitude is that once you publish something and it receives widespread adoption,
it doesn’t really belong to you anymore. Once the books are finished, they’re finished. It’s like with a painting. The artist doesn’t get to walk into a museum displaying his art with his brushes and make edits or fixes to the painting.
Rowling’s tweets about her content that aren’t reflected in the actual content are irrelevant to the content until such time as the content actually reflects her changes via either a new version being released or a new story being released. If she’s able to write a twenty page exposé on a part of the universe she created and can then post it onto Pottermore without it being edited, revised, or even seen by another person, then Pottermore isn’t a publication. It’s her blog.
@Prince super Vegeta , she it’s trying to keep her books current cuz she’s too stupid to write new ones
...So do you think it was a micropenis for a giant or a micropenis in general? Cause like, a micropenis for a giant would probably be pretty damn big.
But Hermione was the smart one
@CaptainCrunchyCvnt, And, as her parents were muggles, probably one of the very few who actually was vaccinated.
If JK Rowling had wanted to raise issues in a meaningful way (by putting them in the actual books, where upsetting people could hurt sales, rather than waiting 20 years to add them later) she’d have had Hermione leading a campaign to get Hogwarts to administer the menACWY and 3-in-1 booster shots that her peers in muggle schools would have been getting. (These days it’d include the HPV vaccine, but that wasn’t routinely offered when the books were written).
What did she say that is ruining anything?
Can’t even bother to make them UK cops. Typical lazy buzzfeed adam
No seriously what’s going one can somebody explain or is this a joke from a scandal that went around
Neville’s patronus I can accept
shes gone too far!