Y’all ever wait 6 months to get life saving treatments just to flex on Americans
@Lynnn, I'd rather wait 6 months than never be able to get it because capitalism deems me unworthy
@Davrial, I never understood why so many people complain about the healthcare here in the states. Im 26, make 24k a year, a pay for college but I've never once had a problem with healthcare. My insurance is $47/month for health, vision, and dental with a $35 deductible. If someone can't afford that there's something majorly wrong
@theshadosnipe, the reason there’s debate about it is because while having an employer sponsored plan you only see the cost as about $500 a year with a $35 per visit copay, the actual cost of your plan is probably closer to $10,000 for a single person in a group plan (you can see the amount they pay in the annual explanation of benefits statement they’re required to send you). You’re in a fortunate position because your employer offers benefits, but other lines of work do not.
With a similar salary with no benefits, medical insurance costs can bankrupt people, and it also puts a fairly high burden on employers that offer benefits...
@A Blunt Object, then work for a company that offers benefits. That's the best part about capitalism. If an employee doesn't treat its employees with fair wage or good benefits and enough people quit for better horizons, they will either change or go out if business. I literally have turned down job offers after hearing their benefits package or lack of. I hate when people complain they get a certain type of treatment where they are instead of taking it upon themselves to find a better job or place to live. Why do people need the government to do everything for them?
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, there have been a lot of people that say "oh, I make 80k a year!" But they have garbage benefits and pay huge amounts for insurance. A lot of the time it's worth taking a pay cut for a better package. I'd rather pay my$35 deductible then make a little more and pay several hundred, possibly more
@theshadosnipe, agreed. I was offered a job for 10k more a year but with no benefits. My current employer pays my full healthcare cost for a pretty good plan to. They treat their employees great and often give us bonuses that can total over 5-10k a year. It will take a lot more than $140 week (after taxes) to leave where I am
@theshadosnipe, out of legitimate curiosity, what is your insurance provider? I make about the same as you anually and mine in upstate NY for just basic and dental (no eye) is $145/mo with a $1500 deductible and that's the best rate I could find, so I'm definitely interested in whatever insurance you've got :0
@Shmay Fish, I'd have to check but I live in Wisconsin so I could certainly see hope NY would be more expensive. Mine's also for just me and is mostly covered by my employer
@theshadosnipe, they don't have jobs and therefore don't have insurance
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, small businesses have a hard time offering benefits, and without those entrepreneurs our economy would look vastly different.
Additionally, uninsured folks add cost to the healthcare system. They don’t seek preventative care, and when they need catastrophic care and are unable to pay that cost gets put into an increase for services of the insured. Even the insurance companies understand how important preventative care is for lower costs, which is why the majority of plans have no copay for a wellness visit.
There are a lot of options out there, but offering uninsured folks a public option for insurance isn’t a bad idea...
@A Blunt Object, again, don't work for those companies then and they'll find a way. Every company I have worked for has been small and family owed (30 or less employees) and they all offered great health packages
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, so the question becomes are you ok paying more for services from certain industries so their employees can be insured?
Companies tend to try to control costs, not add them, and benefits add about 30% to overall labor costs which gets passed along to the end consumer.
At the end of the day nothing is free, it’s just where we as a society feel the most comfortable labeling the pot of money it’s coming from...
@A Blunt Object, if the said service is worth it, yes. A company just tacking on 30% because they have a bad business model and are currently selling a similar service as a competitor that already provides its employees healthcare? No
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, I’m speaking of total industry, as many don’t currently offer healthcare industry wide.
If you recall when Papa John was complaining that Obamacare regulations made him provide benefits, and would increase the price of the pizza, similar to that situation.
With that being said would you be opposed to expanding that regulation to cover all businesses, not just those over 30 full time employees? It would even the competitive playing field for all businesses, but it would require some government oversight...
@Davrial, I make 19k a year in Cali Silicon valley, 1k a month on housing and 120$ for health (cali sponsored insurance) paycheck to pay check as I go though school. And I'm still not complaining. Get off your butt and work homie.
@IQuoteOverwatch, wow! How in the hell can you live here (Bay Area) on that salary and go to school at the same time? I have a decent job in the telecoms industry and still struggle living here. But I’m ok with it as that’s the price to pay to live here. Not a whole lot of people love California, but I love it here, even with the shïtty rent. Earthquakes. Politics. Yeah. Hmmm...
@Diabolik, 4 roommates, gotta live like sardines in here. And no luxury money only necessities.
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, it’s not that easy for most people to just leave their company and find something equal to or better
@theshadosnipe, your 26 years old, probably young and healthy. It’s not premiums or copays that make health insurance unaffordable for most. It’s when your 55 and get cancer and you go bankrupt trying to pay for it all.
@Zorb, I know this is an unpopular opinion and I'll likely get downvoted to the point of being banned, but if I ever get that sick I don't want people to waste the money trying to get me better. No need for others to suffer if there's a good chance I'll die anyway
@theshadosnipe, I read somewhere the average was over 1k/month for average (non low income) families in the US
@madeyoulook2, I suppose maybe for a family of 4 or more, but that still seems extremely high
@theshadosnipe, Or you brake a leg or some other serious. But not life threatening injury. Bankruptcy from medical also includes not having the money to pay healthcare because you cant work. So it snowballs.
Its easy to say how great the US system is. When you’ve never delt with the worst parts of it. Or as I have, watched family who worked their ass off their whole lives die from cancer because they couldn’t afford healthcare. And were unable to work because of the cancer. Which only compounded the problem.
Then turn around and hear how my cousin compares how great Germany’s universal healthcare system is compared to when he lived here in the states. And realize so many people buy into the propaganda about wait times for those systems. When they really aren’t any different when waiting for things here too.
I’ll believe my cousins first hand experience with both systems long before I believe another politicians word about universal healthcare being bad.
@theshadosnipe, say that again when it happens and you have young kids depending on you to provide food.
Watched my uncle who had a 2 year old at the time live before he died of cancer because he couldn’t afford to get all the treatments he needed.
Seen firsthand just how bad the US healthcare insurance system is and have also seen how good other systems can be compared to it. When one has family thats experienced both systems. Its easy to have a disdain for a system that puts maximum profit off the suffering of others above being affordable but still maintaining profit.
@theshadosnipe, No ones saying let the government run the hospitals. With a universal healthcare. Not much would change except instead of corporations being your insurance provider. The government would be. If youre willing to pay an insurance company for healthcare. Why not pay it in tax or fee form. Its really no different.
People like to use “well Im not paying for someone else’s health care” as an excuse for being against universal system. But what do they think paying an insurance company is? When you pay your insurance provider they use the money to pay other peoples healthcare expenses they provide for.
They dont put it in a tiny saving account just for you. How do you think they come up with the money to pay $10,000 Doctor bill if you only pay $30 a month?
@Seohn, you certainly went on a nice tangent there, and assumed im completely ignorant on the subject, so thanks for that. Im well aware of how the healthcare system works. Both my dad and step mother have worked in the healthcare field over 15 years. The long and short of it is people are unprepared. You talk about affording things when you can't work? My father had his job eliminated when I was a sophomore and couldn't get another for 2 years. He had no insurance because he was covered by his job. Because he was smart and put emergency money to the side, he was still able to pay when I had my hand in a cast for a month from a workshop accident. Im not saying bad circumstances don't occur, but like the saying goes, Hope for the best and plan for the worst
@theshadosnipe, Not everyone is as fortunate enough like your dad to put back enough money to cover both being out if work for 2 years and still being able to cover several thousand dollars worth of medical bills. (Must’ve been making good money) In fact the vast majority of people aren’t that fortunate. And a cast is a lot cheaper than paying medical bills for say, Cancer.
@Seohn, he was the head of safety and security so he made pretty good money for sure. Like I said, sometimes unfortunate circumstances do happen. However, I can wholeheartedly say that a lot of people don't think long-term. I work at a factory making $18/hour. Not great but not horrible. A lot of my coworkers though are more willing to put their money towards "fun" things then practical. One guy just bought a new motorcycle but then complained a few weeks later that he didn't have enough money to pay for his wife's medical bills. (I don't know what exactly the bills were, but it didn't sound serious at least). My point is people don't want to think bad things might happen to them. You can't tell me you've never seen people like that
@theshadosnipe, I dislike when people complain about money but then buy useless stuff like cigarettes. However regardless of that. Health insurance is one of those things that has gotten out of hand in price.
The economic marker for what is considered poverty hasn’t changed in some 40+ years despite the significant increase in wage increases between upper and lower employee statuses.
My uncle was a roofer. So he had to plan for times when business was slow. For people who are self employed to which both political parties tote as a talking point of supporting small businesses. Despite his efforts he couldn’t afford the significant prices associated with lung cancer which quickly spread over the course of a couple months.
When he finally did qualify for medicare (or whatever assistance it was) he would joke that you have to be dying before anyone would help. Of course by then its spread was too late and anything done was borrowed time.
@Seohn, I will slightly agree with that, but there's also good reason. Health insurance costs are based on risk, and roofing is extremely risky so he would be paying a lot more then say an accountant. My job has an annual health assessment that they have to do for our insurance company so they can adjust rates accordingly. As you said, medical bills are expensive. So if there's a high chance of paying for them, of course insurance companies will gouge you in prices.
Yall ever take credit for something you had no say in just to flex on *insert any country that doesnt have that thing*
@TheBigJ, but what I don't get is that I don't know a place that won't give you free tap water if you ask for it here. I obviously can't say for the entirety of the UK
@Jipz, exactly I swear its legal requirement haha
@TheBigJ, as a Texan I assume everything we do is a flex on the rest of the US
What is it with Europeans and "free healthcare"? Y'all pay out the ass in taxes to cover that "free healthcare". That's literally the sole reason Americans don't want it. We'd rather choose our own health coverage, whether we get the basic plan because we don't need it or care to have it or a more premium plan for those that visit doctors and hospitals more often
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, when you were a kid did you ever run around without pants on to flex on your drunk uncle?
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, as long as we're all happy right hahah why do people care so much what other countries are doing if youre okay with your own
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, my employer pays for most of mine anyway. The people who complain the most about free healthcare are 30 year old neets, who deserve to die anyway
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, as an Australian who pays less in taxes if I earned the equivalent money in the US. I find it so strange that you don't have health care, for the amount that you guys pay for drugs is crazy. And you have lifetime limits on insurance. But the fact that you have to make decisions on your job because of benifits is crazy.
@Fribit, the taxes we pay now have to cover our massive military budget to complete with China and Russia. Not a single other country could stand up to them if they wanted to go all "world domination" and NATO members barely pay half of what they are supposed to and promise to when they joined
@Not him again, yep. I believe all there should be tax brackets. If you believe in free healthcare for all, increasing unemployment benefits and social programs that give unlimited money to leeches then you should pay a different tax rate to cover that. We'll see how much libs want to pay for healthcare for undocumented immigrants or allow food stamps to be used for cookies, steak and cigarettes instead if the essentials reeeaaallll fvckin quick
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, 3.6% of GDP is a fair effort for NATO spending and it is a good thing that the other members are increasingly there input to a minimum of 2% GDP. However you are already beating the world by a massive margin in military I am sure the military wouldn't miss a few billion dollars of their 550 billion dollar budget
@Fribit, you of all people,living in Australia, should know China is becoming a big problem. They're constantly expanding their military and stealing secrets from others, my country and yours especially. Not to mention every military weapon in the world has a least a small percentage of China tech in it
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, it's a weird world we live in. But imagine it you taxed mega corporations well, and than allowed them the food stamps to be used on steak and cigarettes. All that money that you have given to the people goes to the corporation and than the government takes it as taxes. But the company now also needs to increase production to meet demand so that means more jobs
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, China is an odd one as you can't be too certain on the track that they are taking. With the increase in wealth on the country production is slowly moving towards other countries, India is going to be massive shortly. China has a lot of uncertainty in the future and it's there economic dominance that needs to be worried about. The amount of money that they are putting in to Africa is a bit worrying
@Fribit, I don't believe that people that work minimum wage or not at all should be given free money for steak and lobster. I'm not saying those people should starve, but be given money for essentials. Bread, milk,water, vegetables, chicken, etc. Otherwise what is the incentive to me to work hard at a demanding job and put in overtime to buy those things that others can get by sitting home all day and crying to the government. I agree that corporations should pay equal taxes and not given tax breaks for being job creators. That's the price of owning a company. If big executives made a small percentage of their grossly high wages, their company could pay the proper tax rate. I understand greed. Excessive greed should be regulated
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, as a person who works for the largest U.S. defense contractor, I can assure you I don't build weapons with Chinese parts. We source only U.S. based manufacturers and equipment and are insanely careful with technology brought into the lab.
@Microsoft, that makes me feel a whole lot better with the whole China and 5g thing going on right now. Im all for banning all Chinese parts in our entire military
@Drunk Pantless Uncle, Average UK salary is £35k - £12.5k of that is tax free, then it’s 20% on the rest. So the average UK worker pays about £4.5k a year in tax. 19.9% of income tax was spent on the NHS in 2017/18, according to government statistics.
On that basis, the average UK taxpayer pays about £900 a year for a fully funded NHS. Cradle to grave - childbirth, vaccines, tonsillectomies, dentistry (no, seriously, full orthodontic coverage, no idea why so many people here have crappy teeth, they can get them sorted for free) setting broken bones, chemotherapy, organ transplants, the works. And if I get sick and can’t work, I don’t have to worry about my insurance vanishing. Same when I retire, still covered.
I’m not knocking your system, just saying that’s not bad coverage for an average of $100/month.
@Nellybert , brits having bad teeth is an old stereotype. Studies have shown americans teeth are worse..but lets not shake that nest 😆
@TheBigJ, Yeah, I know it’s not as bad as TV makes out, but I have seen a small number of people (generally old, and whatever the English version of a redneck is) with teeth so bad I don’t understand how they can eat solid food. Seriously, saw a woman once whose upper front teeth were actually perpendicular to her gums. I don’t know how that happens, but goddam it looked horrible!
As a teenager I had teeth extracted, rearranged, and strapped in with braces to get them in shape. Don’t have a perfect Hollywood smile (no veneers), but pretty close, and didn’t cost me a penny. :)
@Nellybert , Redneck = council estate chav 🤣 and yeah just watch Jeremy kyle to see how bad the teeth can get. For the most part though they throw braces at anyone nowadays.
@TheBigJ, Indeed, I don’t know what kind of pikey you need to be to have such dodgy teeth when the NHS will basically fund a dentist to drag them all in to line.
I try to avoid Jeremy Kyle - as a tax payer, it causes me pain to see some of these people.....
But water is free in restaurants. At least in all the ones I've been to (if it's tap water). And in Italy, you don't even have to ask. They'll just give it to you.
@A pet named Steve, yeah that’s what confused me. I’ve never had to pay for water at a restaurant!
@A pet named Steve, let the americans have this pls
Y’all ever just use the bathroom for free just to flex on Europeans?
Y’all ever have the money to actually fund development of the treatments and medicine that the entire world uses to flex on Europeans?
@The nOly One, You ever organise your healthcare system to give you sufficient buying power to allow you to effectively negotiate reasonable rates with pharmaceutical companies, to flex on Americans?
*laughs in Canadian with the best of both worlds*
Yall ever get a decent job with an excellent healthcare plan that you can get use at any time and not have to spend a fortune to get it?
Okay. It was brought up so I'm sharing my opinion. I believe preventative cares could be universalized, such as screenings, vaccinations, health education, and regular check-ups. It would motivate people to go in more often and help people catch problems early on. Establishing baseline data for each person, such as vital signs and basic labs can help identify risk factors and problems before they get expensive. Any thoughts?
It ain't free biiiiiiiitch
You ever do both of these things because you're Canadian? 🇨🇦🇨🇦
But my healthcare is dirt cheap through my job?...
I'll take capitalism all day long! Our doctors and medical technology is superior by lightyears! Can't afford it, get a better job, it's really not that expensive.....
Its not free ya fools, you pay it in your crazy high taxes
@Belteshazzar, Out of curiosity, what are tax rates like in the USA? Based on the average UK salary, we pay about £4.5k/annum in tax on income. (Average salary of £35k, of which £12.5k is tax free, then a rate of 20% on the rest).
honestly, that depends heavily on which tax bracket you fall into... Low end is only about 10% then it gets a bit more confusing with it being a certain amount plus a percentage of everything over a certain threshold (eg. $970, plus 12% of the income over $9700) but the base amount and percentage is different for each tax bracket
@Nellybert , .
@Belteshazzar, And you all have to calculate your own taxes, and do a tax return every year? That must be fun!
@Nellybert , yes, we do. Haha, it is not so much fun! (Its a pain, but not so bad as some people make it out to be...)
@Belteshazzar, The amount of pain is probably proportional to how close to the deadline you leave it to do the return.
Why can't we have both?
What kind of European says y’all? Phony
@Soy un Ranchero, it's probably just BigJohnson86 in disguise