The biblical God is a sadist and a psychopath, and if this so called Supreme being is going to torture me for eternity simply for not accepting a totally unverified story of His (entirely needless) sacrifice of His only son that was told to me by an organization of child rapists, then I can languish in Hell for an eternity knowing I’m more moral than Him.
@I Are Lebo, I sort of think of it in a similar way. Being punished for all eternity over petty things compared to real injustices. It’s not justice. A just God would not punish someone all because they didn’t join a specific country club.
@Seohn, I can understand why you might see it that way, but I hope I can clarify some of the beliefs. God in no way wants to punish people nor is he afraid of sin. God has compassion for our hurts and struggles, which is seen in how Jesus healed and hung out with people who were considered the worst of the worst in Jewish culture. The fact is that God has given everyone a choice of whether to love him or not, because he loves us. If he didn’t give us this choice then we wouldn’t really be loving him and he would be a cosmic rapist. In giving us a choice we were then able to choose wrong, which is sin. Us choosing to sin resulted in us owing a debt. The payment of that debt is our lives, so God himself payed the debt by experiencing the horrible pain of death and separation from Himself on our behalf. The sheer pain that Jesus went through shows us that 1. There was no other way to get us to heaven because he would have rather chosen differently and 2. He really wants us there
But it is still up to us to accept the gift that Christ has given in order to allow the payment of his life to count as our payment that we owe. And then Christ rose from the grave to conquer death, so that we could also inherit power over death and live forever in heaven with God. And yes that means that I am claiming Jesus is God, because he also claimed that. Look it up, he is either absolutely crazy or he is God. He can’t just be a good teacher.
Sorry for the long post, but I think that it makes life a lot more fair if everyone is given the opportunity to know the full story. If you have questions please ask
@MoistureDeliveryMan, what about why people go to hell when God could just as easily make a different kingdom for the "lukewarm" believers and the non-believers
@Steve Gooliger, who says he hasn’t? Does your parent tell you that if you only get kinda close to the fire it won’t burn? Or do they say if you touch the fire it burns? I think that there will be different levels of heaven, and that the hell thing is just overblown to help us want to be good people. Because people who don’t believe in some kind of eternal punishment seem to be bad more often. Not to say that those ‘faithful’ followers are above corruption, they have just as much choice, and if anything their punishment will be worse because they know they’re doing wrong.
My two cents.
@nightweaver, And their in lies the fault of religion. So many different sects and interpretations. Find two people of the same faith and i guarantee you that you will find they have vastly different interpretations of the same faith. When people of the same faith cant even agree on what is right and what is wrong how the hell can anyone rational choose which religion out of the thousands that exist is right? Smh. And people wonder why that now, in this new age of enlightenment, more and more people are becoming secular in the western world? Because people are starting to realize just what a farce religion is. I also find it fascinating that there is a correlation between higher intelligence and education and lack of belief. And that same correlation tells us that the dumber you are or less educated you are the higher likelyhood you are to be religious. I find that stastic fascinating. Dont you?
@MoistureDeliveryMan, You should study Law. Even a rudimentary education would explain to you why such a system is irrational and redundant. Yaweh, i assume since you said Jesus Christ you are a Christian and therefore believe in the Biblical diety, is as Lebo said, an egotistical psychopath. By far one of the most brutal and barbaric dieties ever conjured up by man. Its why the image of your stereotypical bible thumber or evangelical is all about fire and brimstone and fear.
Smh. Why people believe or defend this tripe is beyond me. Why someone would whorship, love or defend a monster who is supposed to willingly toss the vast majority of humanity into eternal torture is sickening beyond reproach.
As of right now Christians make up about 34% of the human population. That means billions of people are going to literally be tortured for all eternity just because they either believe in a different deity or have no faith at all. Its mind blowing the mental gymnastics involved. Smh.
@LaDarkProphet, what bothers me the most about it is this insistence from Christians that it’s not God that sends people to hell but the people themselves. Which is absolutely nonsensical as they’ll turn around and say with the next breath how God has a plan for everybody and everything happens according to that plan.
I guess my plan is to spend my life in constant agony from a chronic pain condition, struggle unending from autism, live alone and die miserable, and then burn for eternity for not loving Him in spite of it all.
Sounds like a pretty fücking evil plan to me.
@I Are Lebo, 100% agreed. Its almost as if their mental gymnastics and intellectual dishonesty allows them to ignore the facts in favor of their fantasy. Smh.
@MoistureDeliveryMan, I only have one question. Why do you believe any of that is true?
@Steve Gooliger, Good question. But there are a few ethical and philosophical issues with that. One of which is the assumption that there is a such thing as being “kinda bad but not that bad”. If there is an all powerful God, then he would define objective morality. Us being very finite couldnt possible decide what is right and wrong. The other issue is that heaven is where God will be fully present, but those who don’t want God are totally away from His presence. Heaven is good because God is there and hell is bad because you cannot experience his love there. So there can’t really be an option for kind of wanting God. It would be like saying to your wife you wanted to stay married, but also wanted to keep cheating on her. Also “lukewarm” in the Bible refers to something other than passion or level of devotion in its first century context. It doesn’t mean that you have to be “hot” enough to earn your way into heaven
@MoistureDeliveryMan, there’s something few rarely think or talk about.
If someone never hears of God they are punished accordingly. But if people go out and spread God‘s message and a person rejects that message. Their punishment is worse because they choose to reject that message. It means the person spreading the message is in part responsible for worsening that suffering.
I know some would say. “But that person chose not to accept God”. However they don’t always choose to hear about your God in most cases. For example when someone talks about God in public or online. At that point they increased their chance of a worsened eternal punishment if they decide it sounds like the flying spaghetti monster.
Its like the game Jenga. Sure you didnt cause it to fall when you removed a couple blocks. But you added to its instability. Its basically denial using the same argument hypocrites use to justify their actions.
Its easy to justify any action I take. That doesn’t mean I am right.
@I Are Lebo, The same reason we all function on any belief. Personal experience. I am not qualifying that as reasonable evidence, but rather as the basis for belief. This is seen in Descartes’ writings, which breaks down how almost all things we know are actually based in belief. I believe my friend exists because I am able to interact with him, for the same reason I believe in God. But evidence is still necessary for guiding and informing this belief, so if I were to give you just one of my evidences I would say the historical accuracy of the person of Jesus and what he said and accomplished. That evidence in particular points towards my personal beliefs, while there are other evidences for an all powerful creator throughout philosophy and other academic disciplines. If you have other questions feel free to ask.
I saw you are having some rough battles man, I really hope that that gets better for you. I wish I could say I know how you feel, but I haven’t dealt with that befor
@MoistureDeliveryMan, How very hypocritical. You say you sympathize and care for lebos condition all the while fully believing he deserves eternal physical torture for all of eternity simply because he doesn't believe in your fairy tale. That is hypocritical. You cannot pretend to care about someones well being while simultaneously being ok with eternal torture. Smh.
And there is so little evidence of Jesus actually existing its actually not a strong point of evidence at all. But, to take a page from Hitchens, even if he was real that doesnt at all mean that he was divine or that his deeds are real. And if that is your strongest evidence then i can name half a dozen men and women who have done supposed supernatural things. Does this mean their religion is true? Mohammed was a real person, far more evidence for his existence then Jesus, and he supposedly rode on a flying horse. Guess by your flawed logic flying horses exists. Smh. See how asinine this is?
@MoistureDeliveryMan, I find it all laughable how arrogant religious people are. There are literally thousands of religions out there and each one claims to be the right one with the same fervor and flawed reasoning as all the rest. That alone should clue people in that religion is probably not the answer. But alas they are brainwashed unable to think for themselves or question anything. You seem gung ho on philosophers, which is not a scientific feild btw, so i recommend Carl Sagan, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and a whole slew of other actually well educated men and women who debunk religious arguments. Watch just a few videos and you will see that religion has absolutely no ground to stand on beside faith which has no objective grounds in reality. Faith is the absence of logic and reason and is always the last answer religious people fall back on when they have nothing else. Smh.
@MoistureDeliveryMan, your arguments are logically incoherent, and I honestly don’t think explaining to you exactly why will accomplish anything. The only way to come to the conclusions you have on the available evidence is the total abandonment of rationality.
I prefer things that are real over fantasies that make me feel better.
Please know that I don’t say this to be insulting.
@LaDarkProphet, if I may make a piece of constructive criticism, I would strongly recommend you stop adding “smh” to your arguments. It very strongly detracts from your message, and will lead some who would otherwise sympathize or even be swayed by your message to reflexively reject it.
I agree with everything you said, though. Catholics in particular love to preach about forgiveness and love for your fellow man, and then turn around and describe their utopia being eternal paradise with their own kind while watching everyone else burn.
@I Are Lebo, if God is real, then I shall face God, and walk backwards into Hell.
@I Are Lebo, I appreciate the advice and the valid criticism. However i say "shake my head" to describe my disbelief, shock and pity. If some are turned away by that descriptor then so be it. I feel it accurately describes how i feel and makes an excellent conclusion. For how can one react when you realize how backwards and barbaric religion is, and those who defend it, but to stand back and shake ones head in dismay?
If that turns some people off who might otherwise be swayed then so be it. I can think of no other way to convey my end message in so short a phrase. Sadly FP has a pretty small character limit so i often have to rely on acronyms to get my point across.
@LaDarkProphet, it’s not that you use the phrase, it’s the frequency. Doing it so often comes across as condescending.
@I Are Lebo, Ah. While that is not necessarily my intent i see your point. And i suppose using it less often would free up some more characters. Ill keep it in mind.
@LaDarkProphet, back to the point, though. This is what I don’t understand about the Christian mindset. If I was to take as true (I don’t) that there is an Ultimate Being that serves as the literal foundation of reality, I run into a problem I can’t get past. The idea of thought crime. If there really was such an Ultimate Being, and He actually really cared about what I, a completely insignificant creature, thought about Him, to such an extent that my rejection of Him would be grounds for eternal torment, that would make Him the most petty being possible.
Alternatively, if he really does care about me, as he cares deeply about all things, why torment any of us for eternity?
The entire concept of Hell is a deal breaker for me. A God that is that sadistic is a God I’d reject even if I had proof that they were real.
@I Are Lebo, Exactly.
@LaDarkProphet, Is it hypocritical for a man freed from slavery to go back to where he was once enslaved and try to care for others by advocating for their freedom? Yes I believe that all of us including myself are deserving of hell, so the most loving thing I can do according to my own beliefs is to sit with those who don’t believe and to care for their needs and advocate that they should believe. Even if it means that I will be outcast. So yes I care about him and I care about you.
My beliefs do not qualify if I can care about someone, but rather how I go about doing that
@MoistureDeliveryMan, How barbaric. You truly believe every single man, women, and child deserves to be tortured for all eternity? Absolutely sickening. But at least your honest and dont try to pull any apologetics. Which is something i suppose.
You have my upmost pity. I would not and could not believe or desire something like eternal torture on the worst person let alone the people i care about. I guess i simply care to much about my fellow man to believe in such a barbaric fantasy. I truly can not believe that anyone in all of human history truly deserves literal eternal torture. Not even Hitler in my opinion deserves literal eternal torture. No crime, or in your backwards belief system, no "sin" is worth literal eternal torture. What an archaic and barbaric idea. And what a quaint way to put it. Trying to pass yourself off as this kind soul despite openly admitting you believe 66% of the population is going to be tortured for all eternity while you yourself get, and deserve bliss
@MoistureDeliveryMan, So yes i would call it hypocritical. Because you cannot pretend to care about someone while believing they deserve eternal torture. Even if you "claim" you yourself deserve the same treatment. The two statements are incompatible. This is basic English.
I am quite baffled you were so bold and honest with how you view your fellow man. Honestly, quite at a loss for words. You didnt even try and pretend hell was something it is not. Not used to such blatant honesty from a religious person. Course i dont doubt you will try and explain that, no, "all humans really do deserve eternal torture what with "original sin" or some other such trivial bs.
@LaDarkProphet, I’m not here to argue, only to clarify what it is that I believe. So there is only one thing I want to clarify.
In my world view, people’s value is not determined by their actions or what they deserve. I believe that you have an incredible intrinsic value based on that we are all made in the image of God. You also have intrinsic value in that God thought you were worth dying for. God nor I want anyone to go to hell, because they are so valuable.
So I actually see you and my fellow man as having extraordinary value. Worth dying for. I suppose if anything this is what I would want you to hear
@MoistureDeliveryMan, All of that sentiment is wasted on the fact that hell exists not just for those who are immoral but also for those who disagree with your bs. That, by itself, ruins any and all goodwill your bs excuse might have had. A good moral person, in your "worldview", deserves eternal punishment because they whorship Vishnu or are Buddhist etc? That is immoral, archaic and barbaric. You can try and justify it or sugar coat it however you want. It doesnt change the basic facts of your barbaric beliefs.
Are you really so arrogant as to believe that your beliefs are moral despite being ok with eternal torture? Are you really incapable of understanding how astronomically opposed the two are? Judging from your comments, yes, yes you are
I could not, would not, and will not accept or believe in the notion that all human beings deserve eternal torture unless they whorship an egotistical, genocidal, petty, capricious diety who demand we whorship him while condemning the innocent.
@MoistureDeliveryMan, That is illogical, irrational and immoral. Even if, and thats a mighty big if, it was proven to me beyond all doubt that YOUR god IS real, all evidence points that he doesn't, i still would not whorship him. I would rather actually be tortured then whorship such a monstrous being. I am reminded of the interview with Stephen Fry and Gay Byrne. You should look it up on YouTube. He sums up my feelings pretty accurately.
Welp, there's like a 50/50 chance this comment is going to be a shjt show anyway, so I'm dropping some other possibly controversial hot takes cause fvck it.
- Rogue One is boring and cliche. The characters are flatter a pancake smushed between two sanded 2 x 4s. I legit forget Cassian's name sometimes and Donnie Yen is basically just Donnie Yen but in a "gritty" (it's not that gritty) Star Wars movie
- Chick-fil-A sucks a$$
- Amazing Spider-Man 2 is fun
- Citizen Kane really is that good
- Fortnite dances aren't annoying, let kids enjoy their respective generation's shjt
- Sasuke is less annoying than Naruto
- Mantis is the most powerful character in the MCU
- Your waifu is trash
@SimonPetrikov, Man i thought we were friends.... Why you gotta insult our waifu like that?
@SimonPetrikov, but you gotta admit the scariff battle and Darth Vader scene were amazing
-Honestly Rouge One was so boring I only remembered all the characters dying and feeling bad only for the robot
-Live in Michigan and have never had Chick-fil-A
-It's so bad it's good except for the "For You" montage which really just sucked
-Maybe I should watch it, sounds like an interesting movie
-They aren't but they are already so ingrained into popculture that many are sick of them
-In Shippuden Sasuke feels like a dumb edgelord but in OG Naruto he is pretty cool
-Yeah all telepaths are overpowered. She nearly beat Thanos in Infinity War too if Star Lord didn't get in the way
-And so am I cause I watch Anime
-Rogue One is the single best live action Star Wars movie, with a plot that contains actual twists and showcases the grit and gore of warfare in a way we never saw while looking over a Skywalker’s shoulder.
-Amazing Spider-Man 2 was a massive clusterfück of bad writing and worse pacing with a thoroughly unlikeable secondary cast.
-Mantis is useless at anything beyond stalling one dude IF she can get her hands on them.
I have no opinion on your other points.
@The Freaking FBI, just saw it again today. We haven’t seen a space battle that epic since the opening of Revenge of the Sith, and Vader has never been more badass.
@The Freaking FBI, Yes, the scene in the supposedly gritty and more down-to-earth war movie where the Nazi allegory massacres the weaker, terrified rebels is bada$$.
@LaDarkProphet, I'm out for blood.
@SimonPetrikov, stopped reading after the chik fil a comment you terrorist
@Kyler15, Enjoy your fried cardboard you neo-nazi
@SimonPetrikov, false. The most powerful character in the MCU is Chuck Norris.
@Empshok, Actually the most powerful being in all of Marvel is Santa Claus. No im not making that up.
@SimonPetrikov, Your only hurting yourself with that statement T-T what would she think to hear you say that about her?
@SimonPetrikov, the nazi allegory slaughtering the terrified rebels makes us hopeful and excited to see his eventual downfall.
The point of evil in film is to be overcome.
Oof Allah about to go to super hell for them all them terrorist attacks if God’s are judged off of misinterpreted extremists views of their followers. If God’s are defined by humans then they are all in Super hell.
@FAKE NEWS, how did you determine that your interpretation is correct and Al Queda’s or ISIS’s interpretation is incorrect?
After all, the prophet Muhammad was a warlord and a pedophile.
@FAKE NEWS, Well considering practically all deities call for genocide and slavery is it a wonder that their followers follow their example? Both Christian extremists and Islamic extremists are mearly following a more strict version of their respective holy books. The verses that demand blood, advocate genocide and condone slavery are all in there. And no amount of sugar coating or apologetics is going those verses exist.
Anything can happen in a world of fantasy.
@CynicalSirr, you can even change your gender there! 🏳️🌈
@NoneYo Business, Not Christians, just Christianity. I say hatw the religion and not the religious. No matter how flawed their reasoning is. Unless you meant literally. Because then by all means fvck a Christian. I find Catholics are the best in bed. After all nothing quite as crazy as repressed crazy ^-^ Mormons are boring during sex as are Jehovahs witnesses. Evangelicals can be fun but you gotta be careful around those. Protestants are as varied as the religion they believe in. Very much a mixed bag ^-^
@LaDarkProphet, I find that most of the worst religious people are themselves victims of indoctrination. I’ve listened to a lot of lapsed Mormons and Jehova’s Witnesses, and the theme is consistent.