Yeah except for the fact that college tuition has gone up exponentially faster than any inflation couldve cause and its mostly because the government is willing to give a student loan to a fvcking tree trying to get a liberal arts degree if they could prove it had a pulse. The colleges know that the government is going to foot the bill up front so they can afford to charge you those prices and throw all of the debt onto you. Before government loans became involved college was actually affordable, but they also didnt offer masters degrees in underwater basket weaving then either.
@Guy Fawkes, also based on my experience, my opinion is that everyone thinks they are owed a college education now vs then and should be given a free ride to party for 4 years. Saw many friends/classmates either flunk out or change majors because they thought coming to college should be a 24/7 party. While I agree you can't work through college and pay your way in 4 years, over the summers there are jobs in your field where you could apply what you've learned and gain experience. Debt can be paid back but it requires sacrifice. We drove crappy cars, ate leftovers, cut cable and phone data plan, basically lived like we were poor until we got it done. Now we don't worry about it.
@Guy Fawkes, my theory on why college is so expensive is plain administrative bloat. You see it in every major company- you have 5 employees to send emails when you really only need 1.
There was 9 advisors for my major in school and there was only 450 students at any time. They met with everyone once a semester for 30 minutes... you’re telling me you needed 9 people to do that?
@Dangerous Dan Spivey, and not only is a college education costing more now, its usually worth a lot less. There are very few instances that i could actually recommend a person goes to college.
For the most part any amount of money that you make over a person who isnt college educated is going to be going directly towards paying debt. By the time you have your debt payed off you would uaually have jad an easier time juat working and gaining experience fir the job you have. Not to mention the fact that a college education is in no way a guarentee of a higher pay, particularly starter pay. "Well you dont have the experience were looking for so we'll give you starter pay" just use your time actually working or go to a trade school.
@Guy Fawkes, so you're saying my medical doctorate degree in clam shells is a waste of money???
@Codeine, well now youre just asking dumb questions. like i said "very few instances". Of course those clam shells are in need of medical care. Its an untapped market and obviously on the rise. Youre very clearly a man who can read a demand with no supply
@Guy Fawkes, well If you want a serious question, what about a research masters in project management?
@Guy Fawkes, This stuff is the reason why the typical recommendation nowadays is only go if you’re doing for a STEM degree. It’s costs a lot even for some community colleges so you need to come out with something worthwhile.
@Codeine, im considerably more intoxicated at this point compared to when i wrote the original comment. But honestly it woukd entirety depend on the field you intend to go into. I think most leadership skills cant really be properly trained, but if youre a natural leader then learning the extra pointers could come in very handy. And it basically boils down to career choice and prospective pay, if you get a masters in in project management and then go to manage projects at a McDonalds franchise then youre not going to be very happy with the results id wager.
@TheRatMan, maybe someplaces, but when i was in school (graduated 2016) every single teacher was still preaching "if you want to be successful and a contributing memeber of society then you have to go to college". I was legitimately shamed and made fun of by teachers when i told them that i didnt think that college was right for me. It dodnt change much but it did make me question things that i was very sure of at the time. Not inherently a bad thing, but it did turn out to hold me back and halted progres for myself
@Guy Fawkes, well don't let me get in the way of your drinks but I'm leaning towards construction but I was looking at the general course to widen my career oppotunities
@Codeine, noones getting in the way of me drinking hahaha. And full disclosure man im 22. Im by no means a person to listen or in any way a form of authority.
I only feel comfortable giving my opinion because i can explain my logic and reasoning behind it. Im not conceited enough to think that others cant form other opinions or that those opinions that disagree are incorrect.
As a closer, all i will say is that you need to make sure that youre debt doesnt wind up outwaying the "extra" pay that you MAY be able to receive due to your degree
@Guy Fawkes, all good man, hey im only 20 myself. I am just looking for an opinion tbh.
But don't you worry about my debt, my HELP loan will grow to around 150k but in Australia I don't start paying it off until I earn higher than (I think) 60k a year, and what I want to get into will give me around 100k each year.
Enjoy your drinks and have one for me, I'm working at 6am tomorrow
@Codeine, oh well then that definitely changes everything, i had assumed you to be American as well.
As i understand it, student debt outside of america is an actual joke. Ive heard in UK if you cant afford to pay it back after a set amount of time it just disappears. In america that shít will follow you to the end of the world and beyond. Honestly you could probably disregard everything ive said so far just because youre not in America.
And ill have two for you man
@Guy Fawkes, you legend mate. Does your student debt have interest on it?
@Codeine, if i answered that it would be pulled directly our of my ass man. I dont believe so but im not certain.
I just made the decision that college wasnt right for me and proceeded from there. I dont want to discourage pwople from going to collegen i juat dont want them to take what theyre told at face value because its almost never true (here anyway)
@Guy Fawkes, oh true, I kind of did the opposite after doing 12 months of a plastering apprenticeship
What are you doing with yourself now?
@Guy Fawkes, same as house prices in major cities, the price doesn't adjust properly when people can just borrow whatever the asking price is. No one is saying nope I can't afford that so the prices have to come down, they're saying yup charge me whatever and I'll pay with it in debt.
@ajr12100, that’s a result of the money being flooded in like Fawkes said, is the result of the cost, not the cause of the cost.
@Codeine, im trying to stick to shop hand jobs. Im pretty good with my hand and very mechanically inclined. I can use most any hand tool/power tool you hand me. And im realistically capable of learning anything thwy could reasonably need.
Im trying to work around some personal issues like adhd, mild autism, and depression/anxiety so the ability to stay buay the whole time im on the clock is a huge help. I had considered a trade school but i already am familiar with how to weld (still need practice) and i cant really juatify anything else as an expenditure.
@Guy Fawkes, have you considered an apprenticeship? I don't know much about America but in Australia welders make good cash. Especially specialised welders
@Codeine, i thought about it off and on because you are absolutely correct. Welders make incredible cash, specialized or not. But honestly as young as i am im pretty apposed to being tied to any single area. Im not really after money, i just have to have it to live unfortunately.
Im really still trying to figure myself out and what i actually want, i was never given the chance to learn who i am in highschool and i feel really lost without that. I always just dealt with what was given to me and it was never made clear to me that i was allowed to want specific things
@Guy Fawkes, I completely understand what you're saying but if you get qualified as a welder you could always work as a qualified labourer on job sites. Or you could become a builder afterwards and work wherever you want
@Codeine, yessir. I guess i just dont like that because somwone else hasnt said im capable of welding that im automatically assumed as being incapable. I did my first weld when i was like 14.
But that is still very valid advice and one that i struggle with the decision of often.
It feels weird to say because i never actually experienced it, but i miss the days when what you could do outweighed what you were "qualified" to do.
@Guy Fawkes, 100% man. But as an apprentice, at least in Vic, your boss can sign you off earlier than the 4 year date, if they think you're capable. Or if they don't want to pay you more they can just let you do more complex stuff.
@Dangerous Dan Spivey, while I agree with you to a certain degree, (some students did expect college to be a 24/7 party), that lady probably was talking about a single or similar degree. In my case, biology/environmental science, it required a lot of biology and chemistry classes. Those classes were not cheap in a 4 year university. Luckily for me, the VA paid for all of my classes, even they complained that my school was expensive. Now my classmates were not as lucky as me and they got loans like it was going out of style.
@Guy Fawkes, as far as teachers pushing college on their students... keep in mind that teachers and all adults, really everyone is merely a sum of their experiences. As they experienced what you’re going through in a different socio-economic climate, their advice won’t always be appropriate for today’s reality. I’m 44 and ran into the same kind of combination of pressures, I thought a tech school might be a better option but was pushed towards college, which was just not something that was for me. Ultimately other people can only recommend what they feel would work best for them, or what they think would fit your situation best. It’s always good to get an outside prospective, but keep in mind that you know yourself best and have to live with your choices. That’s why the saying, “follow your dreams” is so apt, even if they’re stupid dreams, at least you’ll only have yourself to blame and you’ll learn more from your failures than you will failing their vicarious recommendations.
@chickee fella, we're obviously trying to tackle a complicated subject here. I think another noteworthy issue is that when this lady went to college, college wasn't pushed as our parents pushed us and therefore the market wasn't as saturated and more vertical movement was also possible. When I went to pharmacy school in my state, there was one school that took about 120 students, now there's 6 schools that each take 150 students. Despite my terminal degree, jobs are scarce in some areas. Another issue is how complex and intertwined fields have become e.g. interface with technology which favors more degrees. In my field I work with MDs who are often also PhDs and some have MBAs or MPH. They probably make really good money based on the combination of their degrees but at one time had crippling debt. The type and combination of degrees matters which we didn't have reinforced... it was just "go to college". Consider how quickly this mindset on college has changed too.
@Sarcastic Wombat, sometimes people also recommend jobs that make the most money from their perspective which can be enticing but you have to step back and consider what sacrifice that requires on your part. A family doctor may make $200,000 per year but it requires going to college 8 years, internship, 2 years of residency, heavy debt, your 20's are spent studying, working long hours for crappy pay. If you want to make more money like a surgeon, add 4 more years and 2 more if you want to specialize then you are in your 30's when done with more debt but also a better means to pay it off but it sacrificed what none of us can ever get back: time. Since college is such an investment, it needs to be researched heavily by you, your parents, and guidance counselors. I didn't mention the difficulty of admission which I'd also significant
@Dangerous Dan Spivey, that is true that degrees are so intertwined. Went to school for an environmental science degree, graduated with an environmental science and biology degree along with a minor in chemistry. The difference was just two additional classes (organic chemistry I and II).
@Guy Fawkes, I went to a state university from 2007-2011, and I never took out a single student loan. I starting saving money in 8th grade mowing lawns and shoveling snow, and I worked two jobs (fast food and retail) all through high school. All through college I worked at least two jobs at a time (waiter on weeknights and retail/bar tending on weekends) while getting my chemistry degree. I got hired as a chemist 2 months after college and owned a house within a year after that. A lot of people want things handed to them and don’t want to put in any effort.
Tuition has gotten more expensive, even adjusted for inflation. Colleges should technically be getting cheaper, but they aren’t, and it probably is because of how much debt college students take on
@Soy un Ranchero, a lot of that comes from the government loan system. Why keep your costs down when you know you’ll get whatever you ask for anyways?
@Soy un Ranchero, government has flooded the market with “cheap” loans. Anyone that has basic economics could have predicted the cost ballooning like it has.
Can’t relate. Joined military and got paid to go to college. Also worked a job so I wouldn’t have to take on any debt. Now I’m just hustling in the real world trying to get my puppers a better back yard
My grandfather was able to make it through college working at McDonalds, I couldn’t even afford one year if I only worked 1 job at McDonald’s
You can go to college debt free, I did it. And smoked every day to boot lol just be smart about it, don’t settle, there are actually way more no experience-$20+hr jobs out there than the internet let’s on
Phil you not looking too brilliant either there buddy
Ok boomer? No?...ok
I know a person that is currently working their way through college and working as a receptionist. She’ll graduate debt free year after next. You just save all summer then work weekends and holidays (overtime) when school starts, and don’t blow your money on stuff that isn’t college. What is a lifetime of success worth to you?
@Gothem, one thing to get a degree another thing to get a job in that degree.
If you do well in high school, you can get scholarships. You can go to a lot of schools practically free (tuition wise), and you can definitely still work your way through college.
You can't expect to go to a top tier private school with not top 1-5% grades/scores and work your way through debt free.
@Yung Saltine Cracker, I had straight As and leadership in highschool, only got 9000 in scholarships (which is more than anyone im friends with excluding 21st century scholar recipients). My tuition is 20,000 a year, living expenses are around 9000
@ajr12100, there are schools out there that you'd get tuition paid for if you had straight As (depending on what you got on the ACT/SAT). When I was looking for schools a few years ago, I know Akron was one of those schools.
@Yung Saltine Cracker, thats true but very few schools had my program and I went to the cheapest one (public university)... also had a 35 on the ACT and still didn’t get more than 1/2 tuition paid for
@ajr12100, so you could've went to a lot of schools for free (tuition), but many of them didn't have the program you wanted. I'll add that to the list of factors determining if one can work through school and come out debt free or not.
Oi fvck off you stupid cunt until you learn about modern economics