Lmfao this is the opposite. Most people were fine with Force Awakens, they just wanted an explanation of everything to answer a lot of questions, why Rey was suddenly powerful, why Maz was important, we wanted to see character development, learn more about Snokes background.
And then when TLJ came out, which was awful, people began to see that Rey was kinda a Mary Sue with all her abilities, Rose could have been a critical character but her motives and decisions made no sense based on her background, Holdo also was an interesting character but was just unlikable; literally the first scene we see her in she insults Poe, and then she just dies with the ship. I wanted more of the characters but there was nothing.
Finn and Roses mission was pure chance and made no sense. They happen to find a code breaker in jail, happen to luckily get out of jail, and happen to come across the ship of the code breaker. It all makes no sense.
When fans brought this up, they were the ones insulted.
This does not mean I condone bullying of any form. I think it's stupid to bully an actor for a role they played because the issue was with the writer of the character, not the actor.
At the same time, instead of Disney saying "we hear you, we'll fix it" they said "you misogynistic sexist racist manbabies. If you don't like the movie the problem is you".
So it was really Disney who drove away people who liked star wars.
Roses fix was easy, the outcome could have been the same. They didn't give her motives other than 'morals' to save things from dying, which was then completely obliterated when she keeps Finn from saving the resistance, leading to the possible destruction of the entire Resistance.
Rose could have been a much more interesting character if her message was "letting people do what they love".
She followed her sister to help the Resistance. She could have told the story she followed her sister to do what her sister wanted.
Then when she sees the space horses, she could say "they were native to my planet, we could see them raise a family, they were free. And then they were taken away, forced to this cage for life. Just like my sister and I were."
This shows she relates to the space horses and gives reason for why she wants to save them while still having morals about love and freedom.
Lastly, establish that through Rose and Finn's adventure, Rose falls in love with Finn
Then, finally once that's established, Rose saving Finn makes complete sense, and have Rose tell Finn that she loves him.
This shows her own character progression from "I want to help people do what they love" to "I am my own person, I want to do what I love"
This explains her resistance affiliation was purely her sister, and people could see why she saved Finn. It causes her to be in a super interesting antihero position cause she acted for her love for Finn and cares about him more than the resistance.
Then it puts Finn in an even more interesting position, Rose is his friend and he might have to choose between Rose and the Resistance.
@Tentastic, thank you sir it’s nice to see someone stand up for the fans who do love Star Wars and know it can be good but have been called toxic for not liking what Disney has done with the franchise.
@Tentastic, I completely agree that I think Rose is a pretty terribly written character, but you have to admit a lot of those other complaints were solved in the latest movie. I personally really liked TFA and ROTS but thought that TLJ was kind of just filler garbage. I agree that lashing out at fans is never the answer, but was it really Disney that did that, or media platforms that were too preoccupied in trying to be PC?
@Commander Peanuts, it's mainly against Rian Johnson and then JJ Abrams did some tweeting where they insulted people.
I looked up this one article that compared Rian Johnson tweets and Boyega tweets, and every single one of Rians tweets had an insult, while Boyega spood up in a much more respectful way with understanding.
@Tentastic, yeah and yet people seem to think that just because a couple people (admittedly important people) responded poorly that somehow that counts as a giant middle finger to the fans? I just don't understand the hatred toward the new trilogy as a whole just because questions were left unanswered or the movies weren't made to be exactly what people wanted them to be.
@Commander Peanuts, It isn't that the movies weren't made exactly how people expected them- I told you before TFA was considered good. The issue is that through dedication and staying through the story and giving Star Wars a chance, the new movies don't have a payoff. Finn, Kylo, Poe, Han, Leia, Chewbacca were well written characters, but aren't Central to the story. Luke, Rey, and Snoke, the most critical characters who are supposed to hold the trilogy together, aren't written well. Not only that, but the new characters written in who are supposed to be important, Maz, Holdo, Hux, and Rose, again are written off as petty.
All the characters we cared for are not there anymore, and we have no reason to follow it.
Finally, when fans criticized the movie, they were insulted. So they just left and stopped caring.
Yes, TROS did answer some questions, but the canon was lost.
That's why people hate the new trilogy, there's no payoff.
@Tentastic, what canon? What was the expected payoff if not the answers to those questions? Snoke became more of a side character but through the explanation that was given. He was vague on purpose. Kylo became a main plot point. Arguably THE main plot point. If by no payoff you mean there's no progression of the story or addition to the universe, I'd have to strongly disagree. We learned more about the force than anything the prequels ever showed. And while I do wish Poe and Finn played more major roles, the trilogy was ultimately about Rey and Ben, and what it means to not lose hope. It seemed like a pretty consistent canon to me.
@Commander, people don't care about the answers to anymore because they dont care about the characters. Knowing the answers makes no difference to how the story, "good guys win bad guys lose" is gonna go.
The canon is broken because Luke is supposed to be a new hope, but he's not and deserts his friends. The explanation could be better, like maybe he did try to save Kylo and couldn't face Leia and Han. Rey has all these force powers that she can use proficiently cause she's Palpatines granddaughter (yet even though Luke was Anakin's son, Luke didn't have a small portion of those abilities until after brief training with Obi Wan and self training). The force diad thing doesn't explain Reys proficiency because just cause you're as strong as someone else, doesn't mean you are as knowledgeable. Somehow Palpatine is alive even though "He could save others from death but not himself". And lastly, Rey has no reason to stay with the light side but does so anyway.
@Tentastic, Luke was a new hope until they found him and realized that just a symbol of hope wasn't enough and they had to rely on each other and the hope of everyone to end the oppression of the first order. He isolated himself to drive the point that succumbing to the dark side is a difficult struggle even for the best jedi. Rey's powers before training were pretty minimal except for when they involved kylo. Because of the dichotomy. They strengthen each other. She wasn't really knowledgeable, she even said she doesn't know what she's doing, she just did it. And while it's true that like didn't really know how to use the force at all until training, that doesn't mean that no one can. The force is natural, so what's hard about believing someone can learn it naturally? As for Palpatine, that quote was about his master, plagueis. Palpatine constantly talks about surpassing masters. And for Rey's choice, she chooses light because anything bad that has happened to her was because of the
Dark side. The whole trilogy has been about her relation to her parents and they died keeping her away from the dark side. Luke told her that the dark side was the reason he nearly killed his nephew. The dark side's goal is to crush the hope that she has spent 3 movies building and seeing around her. That seemed like pretty obvious motivation to me
@Tentastic, I give you a like not cause I agree with you, but because it is cool for one person to have both top comments
@Commander Peanuts, but it wasn't Rey building up hope, it was Finn. Rey was just there and apparently had force abilities who saved Finn.
Then he was sidelined for the rest of the trilogy. People expected the payoff for following him but it never came.
Rey was the main character in the second movie, but she didn't have good motivation. When she went to Kylo, it was to 'save him from the darkside'. Not to save her friends. She was selfish and not relatable.
So, with Finn sidelined and Rey dull, the final story doesn't matter. There's no payoff since the good will win in the end as we all know, and all the characters will live happily ever after cause theres nothing interesting going on in the story.
@Tentastic, I wish he had a bigger part too, and I don't think I said Rey was building hope, because I agree that was Poe and Finn. The plot split to two sort of subplots. The dichotomy of Rey and Ben, and the unification of the galaxy to restore hope. The unification story was already done. In the original trilogy. So, while to the detriment of the characters who were responsible for that subplot, they didn't focus on it because they wanted to have some kind of new story told. So the focus shifted. I personally didn't think Rey was dull and I was curious about what could possibly pull her toward kylo more than her friends. Because that wasn't just some strange unexplained character motivation, that was a plot device. It was the force bringing the two together. The payoff was knowing what Rey was, and then seeing her not only help Ben overcome the dark side he thought he lost to (with help of other key characters) and seeing the galaxy come together against that same loss of hope.
@Tentastic, disney runs there star wars movies like ea runs their games. Make a bad game/movie that they overhyped then blame the fans when it bombs
I'm tired of seeing people talk like this when it's clearly not what happened. Star wars was always going to be a 9 movie saga. George lucas asked mark hamill in the early 80s if hed be willing to come back in 2010s to play an old man master jedi character. The problem is we got the lucas vision for how 1-6 goes but now we will NEVER see how the saga was supposed to end. We will never see the true vision. And this is both Disney and George lucas at fault. All they had to do was let the guy write the story or George could've toughed out just one more trilogy before selling. The prequels may be not that great movies but they have a great story that's arguably better than the original trilogy. Also trying to use 3 different directors was a terrible idea it barely worked in the original trilogy.
I generally agree with this, but episode 8 was just aweful
Who thought Ryan Johnson would be a good choice to direct the most successful film franchise of all time? Seriously, look at his track record. The guy has made nothing but failures.
@Lonely sandbar, knives out was really good
@Lonely sandbar, He directed one of the best episodes of Breaking Bad.
@Lonely sandbar, pretty much all of his movies are good or great except for last Jedi. I don't know what you're talking about
@Lonely sandbar, Wgat about Looper that movie was huge. Knives out is great too those are the only ones I've seen other than the atrocious last jedi. The problem was trying to use multiple directors.
It's all entertainment. If you liked it, fine. If you hated it, fine. If you hated it and decide to berate people who like it, why don't you go make your own damn movie and see how that turns out.
@CynicalSirr, from your handle and your opening statement, I am going to assume you never invested yourself in an aspect of pop culture very deeply. This lack of experience explains your conclusion, but I urge you to consider that some people really invest themselves into these things.
When this happens, disrespectful actions (exemplified by Rian Johnson) are personal insults and attacks that cause real pain and real loss. It may not seem reasonable from the outside looking in, but grief and anger are legitimate reactions to what has been done to Star Wars.
Of coarse, none of this justifies uncivil behavior on either side.
@Hot Coffee, this is a book/cover situation because I have been invested like that before.
I am more referring to what you said in your last sentence.
Star wars legends was better and more thought out.
This reaction is the exact reaction that people had toward the prequels in their time, Vader has a good point. Harassing actors Star Wars fans? Really?
@Mantis Tobaggan, there’s no evidence Kelly Marie Tran left social media due to harassment. She’s never said it was harassment, and the only evidence of specific attacks on her person originate from a single IP address in California.
People have criticized the character she portrayed, and the hairstylist (that hair was über cringe), but none of that was an attack on the actress.
I suggest you look for the evidence of harassment. The only thing you will find is a lot of accusations of harassment with little evidence.
@Hot Coffee, even if it wasnt direct harassment you cant deny how SW fans are. You dont have to look far to find the toxic, nonsensical hatred. It's been around since the prequels came out but now there is a new trilogy to hate so suddenly all those people love the prequels. If you like the new trilogy you are a corporate shill, or a sell out, or whatever. The kid actor for anakin is a great example, he saw the ridiculous hate online and got super depressed. It has happened before. So maybe harassment is a bad way to describe it but of you can't see how toxic that fanbase is, and has been for like 20 years at least, you are blind. (Probably loud minority I know but they are really loud and really awful)
@Hot Coffee, https://mobile.twitter.com/swankmotron/status/943171540312453120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-10804008921573926092.ampproject.net%2F1912201827130%2Fframe.html
That's just a few minutes of research. Someone changed her wookiepedia entry into super racist crap
@Mantis Tobaggan, yes, they’ve traced those changes to a house in California where some “journalists” lived who also pushed the “toxic fan base” narrative.
That said, there definitely are nasty people who dislike episodes 7, 8, & 9, but it’s unfair to lump everyone who dislike what Disney has done to Star Wars in with those people. But that is what Rian Johnson, and to a lesser extent, JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy, have done. They have been rude, dismissive, condescending, and dishonest throughout this entire process. They, along with Bob Iger, have blatantly lied to George Lucas, and worse, they’ve delivered sloppy, disingenuous stories that are indefensibly bad, despite being delivered by excellent actors and skilled artists.
Rose Tico is a terrible character. That’s not Kelly Marie Tran’s fault. Dislike of Rose Tico is not an attack on KMT. Rian Johnson is at fault, he really is a terrible person.
Look up ScreenRant’s Pitch Meeting for Rise of Skywalker.
@Hot Coffee, to clarify, I only meant the toxic side that attacks people. I've seen the pitch meeting this are always funny. Not trying to.lump anyone together bu acting like some of the fan base aren't whiny, condescending, asshole babies is simply untrue. That can be said of a lot of fanbases but from what ove seen the Star Wars and Pokemon communities are by far the worst about it. I know, it's a loud minority, but they are very loud and they love to complain
That said I liked the new trilogy.
@Mantis Tobaggan, I’m glad you enjoyed it. I find the whole trilogy boring and the last Jedi is unpleasant at best.
When fans behave poorly, most people don’t tolerate them, and there are always a few bad apples that come out with every popular franchise.
What’s distressing about this trilogy is the creators and the press have amplified the few rotten fans as a means of deflecting legitimate criticism of subpar work. JJ Abrams and K Kennedy know R. Johnson threw the trilogy under the bus and really ruined the flow of the story, but rather than acknowledge this and fix it (what was Kennedy thinking letting TLJ see wide release? Why didn’t she stop it before it was finished?) They stamped their feet and called their critics misogynists and claimed the movies were all about strong women and alphabet rights so if you didn’t like the movies you must not like women or gay people. False equivalence is a weak, but effective defense that a lot people fall for.
I liked the sequels and all the new ones. The prequels were a decent plot but just anakin and Padmes relationship was way too cheesy and ended up being bad acting. The movie without them together was good though
I actually really like the prequels, minus episode 2 kind of, i wish people didnt hate on them so much. Look at all the memes we got from them! I feel especially bad for the guy who played kid anakin. People are just a holes.
@All my Mizore, as you know, human aggression was invented in 1999. No one was ever mean to others, especially when they were in a very wide and bright spotlight, until that fateful May.
I mean all that's mostly true and Disney still ruined Star Wars so you can keep your black and white fallacy Vader.
@PottedPlant, well a sith does deal in
@PottedPlant, you seem overly offended by this