Curves are flattening regardless of their actions.
@CocoasBro, we must stop this then. I like em curvy
This is literally my roommate and it pisses me off. “I’m sick of having to stay home and can’t go do anything. But he goes walking trails with his friends and storm chases (amateur) for tornadoes and will drive all the way out to Texas and we live in okc he’ll drive over 4 hours 1 way then do it again the next day.
@Prime Umbra, why does that piss you off in any way? Are you some busy body Karen who wants to control others?
@Prime Umbra, You do realize that the stay at home orders are actually to prolong this whole thing right? It's about flattening the curve, or instead of flooding the hospitals with a bunch of sick people at once they slowly come in over time as to not overwhelm the hospitals. These people who are complaining like 'oh these people suck they can't stay in so now it's going to be a longer lockdown' are getting annoying cause they have no clue what is happening. This was never going to be a 2 week thing.
@Prime Umbra, sounds like social distancing to me
@Prime Umbra, because he has the right to do so. Don't tread on me.
@big freedom, good to see someone on the side of personal freedom. Bravo
@satan of the north, psst there are never gonna be hospital shortages in the US. We are all terrified to die so we built a LOT
@Prime Umbra, i mean none of that sounds like social interaction so he's doing nothing wrong, hes not gonna get the virus from a cloud
@Medic135, yeah he goes out with other storm chasers lol
@big freedom, you dickheád. You can’t even understand the point of that original post 😂
@satan of the north, Everything you said was factually correct and you got downvotes... People absolutely amaze me...
@Emilio Bandersnatch , That's why they are annoying me so bad. They are morons. They think if everyone stays in it'll end right away. I think this lockdown is BS, and my regular bar is probably going to go out of business if they can't open back up soon
@Unkle77, you dîckhead “he goes walking on trails” oh the FÛCKING HORROR!! You are literally the biggest cûnt I’ve ever heard of. You make liberachi seem like a level headed centrist. Fûck off back to the hole you crawled out of.
@big freedom, Sounds like you missed the "with friends" part. As in potentially not social distancing.
@big freedom, yeah this seems harmless. social distance, thats responsible. but fvck, you can go outside. he’s not associating with people. leave him be
@big freedom, ah, wrong response. whoops
@satan of the north, I think you don’t understand it’s a cycle. Lockdown measures will be lifted, but only after we reach certain targets of low infection and death rates. Then they’ll lift. Then the numbers go up and it’s another lockdown. That’s the tentative plan in a lot of countries. If you want the lockdown periods to be short, you have to follow the rules.
@griffinstorme, jUsT fOlLoW thE rULeS! Even though they are completely arbitrary. And as the rates have declined authoritarian àsshats are becoming increasingly strict. The curve has been flattened and hospitals are not overwhelmed anywhere outside of NYC. It’s time to understand it’s about obedience, not safety.
@TheKen42, I can walk with friends and not be anywhere close to 6ft. The fûcking busy bodies that want to judge everyone else... need to mind their own damn business. Fûcking Karen’s.
@big freedom, Dude, chill out. And yeah, I get not liking nosy people, but when someone is ignoring policies and procedures that are put in place to protect the society I'm a part of, then it damn well is my business.
@TheKen42, I’m not going to chill out. I’m not a big fan of arbitrary restrictions based on nothing at all. And I despise “policies and procedures put in place to protect society” made by elected buffoons and their unelected bureaucrats that have no fûcking idea what they’re talking about.
Remember when it started it was to “flatten the curve”? That has been done. So why are governments cracking down even harder?
Here’s a hint... it’s about CONTROL! Power exists to get more power. Period. Full stop.
@big freedom, Just because we've flattened the curve doesn't mean the virus is gone. It's still lurking about with its ridiculously long incubation period, making it all the more difficult to detect and control. That's one of the biggest factors in this epidemic, is the fact that it *lurks* and *lingers*.
@TheKen42, the virus, will NEVER be gone. Not ever. That was never the point.
We are now trading lives. You are not saving lives by continuing to lock down businesses that can operate safely. You are trading virus deaths for poverty deaths, suicides, missed cancer diagnoses...
I wish you could possibly understand at even a surface level what you’re talking about.
@satan of the north, two weeks later I still think you were right. Brava!
Seems a little silly to have blanket policies for a virus that is only really deadly for a very specific group of people. Your chance of dying from this virus if your healthy and under 40 is probably far less than 1%. Don’t get me wrong, the lockdown was necessary in order to give hospitals time to catch up but we’re at that point now. People can’t stay in their homes indefinitely. If they want to go back to work they should be able to, and if they don’t want to then they don’t have to. I don’t think anyone who still has a job or financial stability has any grounds to shït on these people. Easy to sit in your house and mock people that have to stand in line at the food bank for hours in order to feed their family and who’s retirement, business, or ability to provide for their families has been thrown into question because the government forced them out of a job. There are a lot more ramifications to keeping the country shut down than just “lol, I gotta stay at home”
@Jolee Bindo, it’s between .01% and .005% if you’re under 65 with no preexisting conditions based on the data available. That number is getting smaller though. They’re going back and reanalyzing the deaths and about 3 or 4 are being thrown out as not covid for everyone that stays on the list
It was up to the individual states to how they wanted to conduct their lockdown. Some became an authoritarian hell hole others didn't close down at all. So by this logic, we should force every one to stay home for 2 years. For a virus that has a mortality rate of 0.01. Where was this cruel logic during the "aids epidemic"? Both are disgusting prospects, both fallow the same throw line. The only difference is that more people will die from starvation then this virus unless we open up again. This is coming from the UN research.
@That one lurker, Unless you bang every man, woman, and child in a 6’ radius of you, its a little different from AIDS. Also the actual mortality rate is unknown, and will get worse if our hospitals become overburdened.
@That one lurker, can you provide an example of a state that became an authoritarian hell hole? It is my understanding that you're not actually under armed guard and physically forced to stay home. I'm in California and for all the talk of tyranny, I can still go walk outside, go to the grocery store, pick things up at certain retail stores. I understand that some people lives have been upended by all this and NEED to go back to work but the majority of the protesters are acting like petulant children. Next to nothing is known about this virus, what is known is that the shelter in place is working. You mentioned the mortality rate, although it is not actually known, one can argue that it is low because of measures like the shelter in place orders. Sure there is the a big risk of food shortages but there is an even bigger risk of the virus rebounding and hitting us harder.
@That one lurker, the mortality rate is still being figured out, but all data points to it being 2-4 percent, and higher for immunocompromised populations. Comparing this to the AIDS crisis is just ignorant.
@ZweihanderNLeaveHer, While the exact mr isn't known the more tests that are taken the lower it gets. The most recent rate was at 0.5% I believe. Additionally the hospitals are no where near overburdened, New York infections were rapidly rising so they sent USNS Comfort, the hospitals used it to lessen the burden the ship took 20 patients then was sent away because it wasn't necessary.
@Dragon702, Awesome, sounds like the response in New York is working to keep the spread manageable. If we just had a federal mandate to freeze mortgage and debt payments, as well as supplying enough funds to keep everyone fed until we can safely get everyone working again, we’d get through this mess hunky dory.
@Pumas UNAM, There have been city's Chicago for one that has threatened to jail people for not social distancing . I know in Michigan its pretty bad , not treating jail time, yet . But with out people working you get places closing and then people are out of house or food. Like the hospital I work biggest in the state , laying off 1400 people in the first round. Stopped working on a new hospital completely and possible permanently closing another , all because they are looking at loosing 400 mil to 1 billion. I will be losing my retirement contributions due to this and possibly my job later if cuts continue. And with no answer to when this will be lifted people are done with it, best answer is we stay locked till a cure is found .
@That one lurker, one of the most significant reasons for the lockdowns had to do with the burden on hospitals. Those states whose hospital systems were not overwhelmed did not have to fully lock down. Other states did so there would be less burden on hospitals, staff, and supply chains.
Or maybe this whole thing was a joint operation by Charmin and Quilted Northern to spike the toilet paper markets demand and make millions due to a$$ holes.
@Pumas UNAM, New Jersey arrested some people for walking to the store. New York cops have been beating and arresting people for being outside. Both examples were people who were social distancing. Seems like an authoritarian gov to me.
@That one lurker, I didn’t realize 254,430 of 3,628,824 was 0.01%.
@ZweihanderNLeaveHer, to mark in row from first comment down, I will respond to responses after I'm done.
The comparison to AIDS was a preventable disease, both handled very differently. Where one is of acceptance into our daily lives the other is the pure fear of it. During the 80s it was being promoted that everyone would get it everywhere even straight monogamous people.
The mentality rate is known. It can be noted easily.
@Pumas UNAM, New York governor threatened to close a synagogue down permanently after the attendance of a funeral wouldn't disperse. A teen was arrested. New yorks governor promoted the people to actively go out after Trump asked people to close down. After telling citizenry to go out continuing their ordinary lives, including getting into the subway. He shut everything down after a full week of same old same old.
California's not doing so bad, protesters are inspired by other places and so they want to get to work to. The specific District that protested is R+4 so it's not much of a surprise. I don't understand why you're throwing names around when media's been nut picking. Try to look into the cause and understand where they're coming from.
I would have agreed with you that we know nothing of this virus, three months ago. Go and look at some experts, France is making break throughs and the US is learning more each day.
The food shortage is happening before our eyes. Look into it.
@tampon thief, you're talking globally, the US is wracked with inconsistent death reports. The numbers of the virus is hidden, several people are asymptomatic. This has been found with studies coming from California and new york. The more people that are found infected the lower the mortality rate.
Lastly reread my portrayal of the AIDS epidemic, and think out of the box for a second. I'm making a comparison with the logic behind the comment. The "for the greater good" logic it's promoting. If we had an outbreak in a small subsection of society that makes up less than 1% at that time, of the population. What would this mind set call for? I am commenting on the logic not the event.
@RogueKnight, no I appreciate the joke at the end, I'll take your first half seriously because it's a main point of contention.
The "flattened curve" campaign has worked, telling young people to stay at home didn't overburden the hospitals. The hospitals and response, before all of this has happened, opened up new wings got more beds hired more staff. The majority of hospitals in our reporting that they didn't need to brace so hard, at the time it was appropriate in hindsight it was unneeded. Now young healthy people aren't going out to get checked up. The lockdown was to flatten the curve. Now that it's flat we need to get back to work.
@AproperChuff, lol, I saw what you did there. I won't make much a fuss over it.
See the top half of my comment for @tampon thief. And have a good day.
@That one lurker, I agree that it is time to start opening up. I think it was prudent to do the lockdown before we understood what we were dealing with. But now that we have realized this virus has been here for about 6 months... At least 3 months before we even knew it was here... I think it's time to start opening things back up. some places will need to open up in a controlled fashion other places can open up immediately.
@That one lurker, plus the fact that the longer our economy is down, the more people will starve. UN stated over 264 million will be pushed to starvation by year's end, and more if this continues. Which is beyond worth it compared to the 250k deaths of Corona. And how much did the lockdown actually saved, and how much people would've died without lock down anyways. It could be the lockdown only saved maybe 50k deaths. Which is even less comparable to 250million.
@That one lurker, I'm not attacking you or anything so dont take it that way. It's really hard to find the truth from fiction and I think we can all agree that the reason for that is because media has lied to incite fear and anger to get ratings and make money off political agendas for years. The issues are from people following what political figureheads say with no medical education background rather than doctors and scientists that do have the knowledge and 10 plus years of education on the subject. I won't even pretend to know for sure everything that goes on because I'm not a scientist. But I'll definitely listen to them over anybody without that education.
@RogueKnight, that's all we've been saying. The only thing disagreeable is that it hadn't shown up here in America before January. Records of the outbreak has everything starting in China in September. Other then that it's all kosher.
@That one lurker, here in California, doctors believe it was here in November, if not October.
@AproperChuff, i was referencing your first post before you changed it. I agree with your current stance, and I thank you for reflecting on your own biases. That's why I'm not mad or talking about your original post. I agree even more, that the media is trying to drum up fear and panic. I may come at this differently from you. To me media is ment to come in waves, dying off as there tide settles, the current media still wants to ride their High and disappear into the sea. Artificially making splashes by lying, inflating numbers, and partisan politics. We could point fingers, but let's face it, when you shut off the president's address the nation because it makes him look too good. They're on the wrong side of things. So to say where we might disagree, I know for certain that I am uncertain, so I listen to more than just the experts. Medical experts may be fantastic, but an expert Economist may have something to say. Don't just trust one dude, or even one specialist.
@RogueKnight, could be, we only started tracking it around January. So thanks for the entel I'll look into it a little deeper.
@That one lurker, I don't think anyone will ever know for sure unless we start exhuming bodies. But I do have friends and co-workers who had some flu like virus before January. Doctors weren't sure what it was, only that it wasn't the flu.
@That one lurker, top tier trolling dude! You’ve got about a 3 mile long scroll of comments under this post. Well done
@That one lurker, Yeah sorry mate. I’m a bit on edge because my grandma has been diagnosed with it and isn’t doing too well. She hasn’t been anywhere really so we can’t figure out if maybe it was on a grocery or mail or something. Didn’t mean to be snippy or anything. Hearing others not going through it saying that business people say it’s ok while doctors say it’s not just drives me crazy at the moment because I’m seeing it first hand.
@AproperChuff, no hard feelings man, you just make sure she gets through this. She's got some great grand children to see so she can't be leaving just yet ;)
@RollingInD1ck, look, I've been gaming table top for eight years with top tier grade SS @ssholes. I've learned how to prick a pin with punctuation. And after saying that I don't blame none of them, for misreading or misinterpreting what I said. A troll it might be, but this post needed it badly.
@That one lurker, becuase AIDS was sexually contracted?? And because homosexuals were still shunned during that time so many states didnt do anything until they were forced to. Lol dont compare AIDS to Covid. Totally different diseases hun.
@Basil Fawlty, read a little closer, I didn't compare aids to covid. I asked you to think what would happen if we used this "cruel logic during the "aids epidemic"". I'm not comparing the two, that's you jumping to conclusions because of your inherent biases.
@tampon thief, 2-4%? Are you effing kidding me? That is exaggerated by 10-90x the actual death rate.
Without knowing the actual number of infected, claiming to know what the mortality rate is is just a guess at best. And anyone claiming 2-4% is trying to spin it for worst possible case and is clearly presenting an agenda.
@AproperChuff, there are scientists on both sides of this argument and both sides have qualified people arguing their case. “Listening to the scientists” does not mean much right now because all of the reports come through bias in the media.
@big freedom, That’s why we have to use common sense. Viruses don’t just go away magically one day. Without a vaccine everybody has to be extra careful until they find something that is confirmed to work. And where is your proof that those numbers are made up? Or is that an opinion?
@AproperChuff, my proof is the tests done by USC and Stanford. Reported symptomatic and asymptotic cases showed that there was around 1.4% mortality rate. Then ether tested a wider range of general population and discovered that asymptotic cases were as much as 40x what had been reported.
If we are looking at mortality rates it’s number of deaths/total cases. If we don’t know the bottom number it is literally impossible to know the mortality rate. And I’m using the word literally in its proper way. It. Is. Not. Possible. To. Know.
What we do know, is that the asymptotic cases far outnumber the symptomatic cases. So therefore mortality is far less than initially reported.
@AproperChuff, and correct, viruses don’t magically go away. And vaccines are not magically going to stop this either.
There are exactly ZERO vaccines that work for all Corona Viruses. ZERO. So any new vaccine is not very likely. And if it does get produced it will likely have ~50% effective rate.
Herd immunity for this is the best answer to not having society completely crumble. Especially given the very low mortality rate.
@big freedom, not opinion. My 2 bachelors degrees: microbiology, and medical technology, and work in HIV research lab, have me very educated on how viruses work. That plus years of practical experience have taught me that “listening to the scientists” is 1/3 of the story. Economic health IS body health and society health. Without a healthy economy, many more people will die than from Covid infection. We are already missing cancer diagnosis because people aren’t being tested. Deaths of despair will skyrocket. The US is the worlds bread basket, without our supply chain and farmers, people around the world will starve.
@Officer Killjoke, replied to myself. See comment above
I love how this format is regularly used to illustrate the logical fallacies in the thought processes of those who are also right leaning
@Chifilo, lmfao. Ok mr Dunning-Kruger who has no actual knowledge, but is super ideological.