I work 2 jobs 60 hours a week one job pays 10.25 the other 11.25. Rent is 870. Utilities not included so with internet and electricity I end up spending 1,070 just to live in my apartment. Not to mention my car payment 225 + phone bill, food,gas, and yea by the way I am taking online classes to become an EMT so dont give me anything about having internet. You cannot live off of this wage. How do they expect people to get ahead in life?
@Bohobbles, you literally just said you're taking classes to become an EMT. That's how people are expected to get ahead.
@Captain Mal, very true.unfortunately EMTs only make 15 a hour where I live. So it won't be much of a pay raise. But to be fair I'm more excited about doing some actual good.
@Bohobbles, I get the whole "if you do what you live, you never work a day in you're life" but have you considered doing something that's a balance between what you live and makes decent money? My job isn't my dream job but I enjoy it and it pays good so I'm able to enjoy life outside of work
@Bohobbles, wtf. I thought they made more than that. Hell, you’re only saving lives.
No, pay more. I was making $15/hr working at Kroger (7 1/2 years), but they only made me full time when I got to 7 years. I got a job as a crime scene investigator in Detroit, and only made $13/hr for the first 2 years. That has nothing to do with how hard I'm working
@Cruxio , it has to do with supply and demand.
@Cruxio , how does a crime scene investigator make $13/hour?
@CrazyRightWinger, because it’s Detroit.
@Cruxio , it really is supply and demand, I remember I was a scribe in an ER for 2 years making 9 bucks an hour, my next job was a specialized psych position where I was paid over twice as much, and the more I specialized and got licensed the more I was paid. Rn I could literally get more money at a different company tomorrow, but I'm staying with my current company for social/time reasons, I focused on a single field and it worked much better than just trying out different fields because much less people have my qualifications than that of a scribe.
@CrazyRightWinger, it’s Detroit. I’m surprised the city even has that amount of money. Poor Detroit - city just died after manufacturing went to Mexico.
@CrazyRightWinger, Our union contract said that after adequate education (I had before I was hired) and 6 months on the job, we COULD be promoted from "trainee" to full employee, not that we HAD to be promoted. So the city dragged ass and gave us (ten of us started at the same time) excuse after excuse on why we weren't getting the promotion yet. But really it was because once we got the promotion, they had to pay us more.
@Raki Zaki, but there's so much crime you shoulda been working mad overtime.
@Cruxio , that’s what you get for being in a union. That’s the problem. They ruined my career, too.
‘Less money, less problems...’?
Quite a few articles lately on the benefits* and virtues* of “dumpster diving.”
"Wait, you mean I have to work for a living!?"
@Sexy Homunculus, no, you live to work
@injit, depends on your POV. Take the days off. Use your PTO or vacation or sick time. If you don't get any of that find a different job. Took me years to realize that if left the job or dieed tomorrow, my job would be filled in a week. People need to take care of themselves, so that you aren't living to work.
I started out at $5.15/hr when I was 16 and at 21 after finishing school I moved out and have been paying my own bills since then. It can be done you just eventually need a skill that pays something.
Put in the time and work for the pay.
I worked my ass off for 7-8 years to get to $15 an hour. And a month after I got there, CA announced that their minimum wage was going up to $15.
@Kaji, Because it should have started at $15 anyway. Unfortunately, companies aren't required to make comparative increases to wages already set...
@Aegis, it shouldn't have to be that high to begin with.
In my town the local paper said that the average adult could not afford to live in my city with anything less than $15.
But when I first started at my job, minimum was $7.50, I started at $8. On $8 an hour, i could afford a big ass one bedroom apartment, always had a full fridge, lights on, new games and consoles, and had enough to take a yearly vacation to Nashville TN.
I just had to be smart with my money, and budget it all out.
@Aegis, why should the government decide how much you’re worth as an employee? If you don’t bring more than $10/hr worth to my business, but I’m required to pay you $15/hr, the government has determined that you’re not worthy of getting a job at my company. Makes perfect sense?? 🤷♂️
@big freedom, You should go play bioshock infinite, you'd love the economy in the game.
@Aegis, Well the economy in Columbia was pretty good. The only place where it was bad was in the areas controlled by Jeremiah Fink, and that's because he paid his workers in a currency they could only use there. Since Fink also controlled the grocery stores and living quarters he intentionally kept the cost of living high so he could keep control of his cheap labor and profiting off of it
@Aegis, jobs are a commodity, if you dont like the wage don't work there.
@CrazyRightWinger, Actually no, they are a necessity, not a commodity.
Now, one might say "but the type of job could be considered a commodity" and that is correct. Easier jobs or higher paying jobs are indeed a commodity. But that in itself is the issue, the lowest paying jobs don't provide enough for people to live on, let alone to pursue happiness or seek to better themselves. And if a person is unable to better themselves, then they have no hope to move to a higher paying job.
@Aegis, looking at California's welfare system, I'd argue they are a commodity. It's optional to work. You can just go on government assistance.
@RogueKnight, I mean, yes, if you argue for government provisions, they would become a commodity. But that provides another terrible economic model where nobody works and production falls, then the government fails due to no income from taxes and it all just falls apart.
Additionally, aside from those problems, unconditional universal welfare isn't available
@Aegis, I worked my way up from a low paying job at a fast food place, making $7.00 an hour. Then I left that job cause it sucked and went to Sports Authority making $10 an hour, $12 by the time I left. Then to Target making $13 an hour, $15 by the time I left. Now I'm making over 100k. It took time, a good work ethic, a desire to move forward, and dedication. I have been promoted at every job I've ever held. It's not hard. Just hard work.
When I wasn't making enough to live on my own, I lived with friends. We rented a place together. There is a solution if people want to find it.
@RogueKnight, So what you're saying is, minimum wage wasn't enough and you found a job which paid more AND had to find a social solution to mitigate your costs? That seems to fall perfectly in line with my point that minimum wage is actually below the minimum requirements for living.
Also, you had these options, many people do not.
@RogueKnight, very similar story for me
@Aegis, minimum wage doesn't need to be a living wage. It's a starting point. I didn't need a living wage right out of high school. I chose to move in with friends. I could have stayed at home.
the things I learned from the path I took allowed me to work to that 100k job. I wouldn't have made it this far otherwise. I was able to pursue happiness and such. it takes time. it isn't immediate.
and yes, not everyone has those same opportunities. Some have more or better opportunities than me. some have less. we are all created equal. doesn't mean we all end up equal or have the same journey through life. we have different challenges that makes better, stronger, more equipped for life.
@RogueKnight, Again, it's really cool you had those options. Many people don't.
Also, minimum wage is supposed to be the minimum standard for living. So, by definition, it needs to be a living wage.
@Aegis, dont u understand? U have to work for happiness. U shouldn't be allowed to do ANYTHING but work for trash pay and eat the BARE MINIMUM for survival and if something doesn't work out and u can't get out of ur trash situation its ur own fault and u might as well just heckin die. Its the American way my momma says
@Aegis, minimum wage is for the minimum standard of living. What I don't like seeing is people say they can't support a multiple person household with a single income on minimum wage, and therefore it needs to be higher.
One of my friends used that argument on me, and my response was, "It was your choice to have 3 kids, and marry a guy who can't hold down a regular job. Minimum wage isn't designed to support all that, never has been. It's for people just starting in the work force and life."
@Aegis, The minimum wage is not a “living wage” never was, never will be. It is the lowest amount of money a business can pay an entry level worker. The Feredal Minimum wage has destroyed entry level positions across the country and made it almost impossible for young workers to get their first “life experience “ job . If you’re expecting to get a living wage out of an entry level job, you are dreaming. If you want a “living wage ,” you need to learn a trade and become good at what you do. That way you’re employer finds value in what you bring to the table. Otherwise you are expendable like everyone else that wants something for nothing.
@Kaji, I never argued for it to be able yo support a large family, only a single person. And it can't do that right now.
@DFYANT, That is quite blatantly false, as the federal minimum wage allows for young workers to be paid much less than minimum for the first 90 days and as low as 85% of the minimum wage for full time students. It was intended to be a living wage because when it was first proposed the standard of living in the US was awful, and it needed change. It needs change again now.
@RogueKnight, no it isn't. Specially if you don't have children. When I was struggling I applied for calfresh and medical, and unless you are freaking destitute or have children you barely get any help. Thankfully I was able to leave walmart since the affordable care act had already passed and I didn't lose my insurance. Everyone has different situations, a single poor person, is very different than a single mom or family with kids.
@Aegis, no, it’s not for a minimum standard of living. Nobody gets to decide what is minimal for me, which will be different for everyone else.
@big freedom, It is intended as a minimum amount required to have a decent standard of living. If you want to live exorbitantly, then obviously you would need to get a better paying job. To restate myself, once again, the problem with minimum wage isn't that it doesn't provide luxury, it's that it is so low that it locks many people into being unable to rise above it.
@Aegis, so eliminate it and allow the free market to decide.
@big freedom, You realize that's what it was before, right? Like, this isn't something that wasn't tried before. It resulted in horrible working conditions and virtually no pay for workers. It was put into place so that people wouldn't need to live in poverty, and it's no longer fulfilling that goal because it hasn't been increased as it should have been.
@Kaji, did you learn any valuable skills along the way? I know what you mean working from the bottom and then the stupid lazy ass people get $15/hr. If you did learn some unique or "specialized" skills, use that to Levi yourself I to something better. That's what I did. I scraped by as a production lead for 2 years making 11.50. along the way I picked up the companies inventory and purchasing management system skills. Got a job in the purchasing department at $16.25. Also transferred to a location 5 min from my house! So you just gotta make sure you are learning along the way.
@Aegis, The issue I mainly have is that raising the minimum wage does nothing. On minimum I am confident I could live comfortably, I've done it before. But raising it, only causes the cost of living to go up.
Employers have to pay more, so they have to charge more for goods and services. So those that are at minimum wage before it raises find themselves in the same, or worse situation.
While those already above minimum wage only see their situation decline. Everything gets more expensive, but they stay at the same pay, as employers are not incentivized to do a cost of living increase for them, and if they did, they would only balance the bonds by charging more yet again.
So at best, nothing changes. At worst, more minimum wage jobs get eliminated. Like a lot of fast food places did, at least here in CA, by putting in automated ordering kiosks. I mean, why pay someone to take an order when a computer does it for a fraction of the cost, long term.
@Billy the Squid, Yeah, picked up skills and knowledge along the way. I don't see it as lazy people wanting to make more though, like they do too, but someone fresh into the job market wants to make the same I do that I busted my ass over half a decade, learning and putting in the time for. That's where I have the issue.
@Kaji, Raisong minimum wage doesn't cause automation. I lived in Cali long before the minimum was raised there and virtually all of the McDonalds and Jack in the Boxes in my hometown had automated ordering quite a long while before that.
As for the price increases, that's something that people have argued about for some time, but it has been quite plainly proven false. Prices do go up, but on commodity items they don't increase at a rate more than what one would expect from inflation. This is due mostly to how easy shipping goods has become and national/international marketing for consumer goods. An example is, amazon prices don't vary by state (taxes and shipping may though) and so any item ordered from amazon costs the same in any state. Videogame consoles are advertised nationally and so the price is the same whoever you are when you buy it. Large differences can be found in food prices, but those are caused by availability, not the wage of the state.
@Aegis, except it hasn't been proven false at all.
Your examples with amazon and video game consoles being national proves that. Big players like that are huge on keeping their costs down to maximize their profit. There is a reason that the consoles point of origin and manufacturing is typically overseas, and why the Amazon products point of origin/manufacturers (If they're in the states at all) are typically in the lowest paying states.
Amazon actually brought in a giant distribution facility to my county, and wouldn't you know it, shipping rates for same day or next day increased. Why? Because now they have a lot more drivers that they have to pay more than I'd it was outsourced to FedEx or UPS.
@Aegis, Moreover, it's basic logic and economics that raising minimum wage increases cost of living.
To super simplify, let's say you own a business selling apples, $10 a bushel. You run the stand yourself on your own land. So you have no overheard like rent or power Bill's. Your only expense is your one employee Bob. You pay Bob $5 per bushel, making your profit 50% Then the state says that you now have to at minimum pay any employees $15 per bushel.
What do you do? To stay in business and keep the same profit line your only option is to now charge $30 a bushel. Meanwhile, nothing has changed for Bob. But for his neighbor Bill, who had worked 4 times as long as Bob, at a rival orchard and was now already making $15, he could previously buy 3 bushels, but now only one.
Or, you could fire bob, and make the bushels yourself, you would have to sell less, to focus more on making the bushels. So your own situation would decrease in quality since you would not be able to sell as much.
@Kaji, Except the current model has you selling the bushels at $10 a bushel, selling roughly 100 bushels per day, and paying bob about $.10 per and you keep the remaining $90 per day, while bob takes home his $10. Raising minimum wage to $.15 a bushel doesn't result in significant change per bushel profit, but you don't want to lose that $5 per day, so you fight against the change.
@Aegis, I think your math may be off, or I got confused by the wording. Pay $5 to Bob per bushel he makes for you. Sell each bushel for $10. You get $5 profit per bushel. You sell 100 bushels a day, you make $1,000, but pay Bob $500, you profit $500.
Minimum goes up to $15 per bushel made. So it now costs $1,500 per day to make 100 bushels. To keep the selling price at $10 per bushel, you would now be -$500 per day. To keep the exact same profit of $500 a day, you would have to increase the selling price per bushel to $20 per bushel.
But prices on other goods would go up, so your $500 profit per day would be valued less and it would be more difficult for you.
Sticking with the same bushel scenario, before raising Bob's pay to $15, and the bushel price to $20. With your $500 profit a day, you could purchase 50 bushels at $10. Now, you would only be able to purchase 25 bushels. So your situation became tougher. To keep it the same you would need to increase the prices more to get 50.
@Aegis, But, as it has been said before. Everyone's situation is different. And everyone's view and opinion is different.
And I can highly respect that you haven't a different view and opinion on this. And that we're able to discuss it without getting all heated and aggressive lol.
Good debate bro.
@Kaji, Yeah, it was way early in the morning for me, the math was off, but the point I was making is that the current model of our economy has bob making cents, not dollars. Which makes it even more egregiously obvious that a change is needed, Bob makes $10 a day, you make $990. If you let bob make $.15 a bushel and you still sell 100 bushels at $10 a bushel, bob now make $15 a day, a 50% increase in spendable income, and you make... $985... a less than 1% decrease in your spendable. That's the current situation of our economy. And the simple model presented doesn't factor in that Bob also needs to buy these apples, but he has to work a whole day to buy just one bushel.
@Aegis, I see where the break down is. The model presented wasn't on a day basis, but a production basis.
In my model Bob gets paid $5 for every bushel he makes. If he makes 100 bushels a day, he gets paid $500 for that day. While selling them for $10 a bushel, would total $1,000 per day. Increasing Bob's pay to $15 per bushel produced, Bob would make $1,500 per day. But you couldn't afford to sell the bushels for $10 any longer. If you kept the price at $10 per bushel, and still selling 100 per day, you would be losing $500 per day. You physically would not be able to pay Bob to make the bushels.
If Bob only made 1 bushel a day, it would cost you $15 to have him make that 1. And if you sold it for $10, you would still have to pay Bob his $15, leaving you at a net loss of $5 for that day.
@Kaji, but why would I not just pay Bob a minimum stand of living, regardless of how many bushels he produced. That would be the humane thing to do. Bob is entitled to live isn’t he!?
@big freedom, Yes, Bob is. But so are you.
In the "Bob" model, as simplified as it is. Raising his pay, would result in raising the cost of your goods, making nothing change for Bob, but decreasing your standard of living as a result.
At least that's the point I'm trying to make.
@big freedom, Also, it is entirely possible to have a good standard of living on minimum wage.
I've personally done it myself when minimum wage was much lower than it is now. I just had to budget my expenses and be smart about my money.
The real issue is the mindset of a lot of people. A friends dad once gave me some good wisdom on this. He had a house and 3 kids, made good money, but still lived paycheck to paycheck to support his family. But had his pay gone up, he self admitted that he would do what 99% of the population would do. And that is, increase his expenses. He would be living better slightly, but still more than likely be living paycheck to paycheck. Unless he conscientiously made the choice to maintain the same lifestyle and expenses, and save the rest, nothing would essentially change.
@Kaji, my comment was sarcastic. The idea of the “minimum wage” is incredibly flawed by the implementation and incredibly misunderstood by the people who want to increase it.
@big freedom, sure. Let the companies that only care about profit and their board of directors bonuses decide how much they want to pay us. I have been working since I moved to America when I was fifteen. Movie theater, retail, banking, HR and now administration. What did all of those jobs had in common? Profit comes first. There's a reason why the minimum wage exist, and you know why.
@mayora13, if they “only care about profits and their board” then why would customers shop there or buy that companies products? Nobody forces you to support anyone you disagree with!
Oh wait, you think that the government (who are literally buying their election wins on the proceeds of the same companies) have your best interests at heart? Sure! They are the magical benevolent humans that are immune to human nature and only do what is right, and just!!
@big freedom, Labor Laws.
We don't need politicians to care about our feelings, just create laws that protects us from the free market.
Also, the majority of the population only cares about low prices, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that. They can hate Walmart and Amazon all they want, they are still going to use them.
I worked at home depot, Walmart, and Sam's club at different points of my life. Everyone threatens to never shop there again, they still come in every week.
@mayora13, I never said feelings. Nice straw man. I said your interests. There’s a big difference. Government cares about what their lobbyists tell them to care about. Walmart and Amazon have very powerful lobbyists. They literally pay to have those laws passed. They can afford to work within those restrictions and they know that their competitors cannot. So, by supporting those laws, you are supporting Walmart and Amazon and restricting the small businesses that could otherwise compete with them. Congrats.
@big freedom, labor laws created by the government, to protect people from capitalism since the industrial revolution.
Free market, destroying small business because they can't compete
Your point makes no sense. What moron would allow the companies that are actively lobbying to restrict the protection the government offers it's workers, to decided our pay?
You keep pushing for free market in all your post, knowing how they pushed small business to bankruptcy. Labor laws are NOT restricting small business, the free market is by maximizing profit over quality. Because people are hypocrites that would rather buy cheap, than help small business.
Having the free market decide the minimum wage, is like asking a criminal to decide how long he should be in jail.
@mayora13, free market did not push small businesses to bankruptcy, government action did. What moron does not understand the relationship between big businesses, lobbyists, and how regulations help big businesses but hurt small businesses? How do you not comprehend something so plainly obvious?
@mayora13, you enjoy being led around by your nose? Ever attempt critical thought? Give it a try some time. It’s quite liberating.
@big freedom, do you ever get out of your little bubble of I hate the government? Do you have any critical thinking skills over than government bad, democracy bad, free market good?
Amazon drove small bookstores out of business first, and then electronic stores.
Home depot and Lowe's drove small hardware business off the map.
Ever heard of the Walmart effect?
How about big pharma?
Everything has its ups and downs. Nothing is perfect. There are benefits and demerits to everything. It is misguided to think that the free market is the solution to everything and that it shouldn't be regulated.
It is also ironic that someone so stuck up in his narrow thinking is accusing me of being led around my nose. I've been in this app for over 10 years, I may not comment all the time, but I do read the comments.
@mayora13, I have never once said that anything is perfect. I argue for free people to get to choose. I argue against government bureaucrats deciding who gets to win and who loses. Because they are paid for by the biggest corporations, they always choose to make them the winner.
I have enough experience to understand that the government is necessary but should be kept to absolute minimum. “The government that governs best governs least” that is a very old quote, and it hasn’t changed.
I get out of “my bubble” ALL THE TIME, this is why I love debating with people that disagree with me. The fact that you think I’m narrow is hilarious. The ol reliable “no u”.
You don’t offer logical rebuttal to my points, or offer valid counterpoints... only “ever heard of Walmart” which proves my point.
Either be better, or go back to sophomore year and learn how to debate with logic.
stop asking me for money
I started off making $3.35 an hour, put a third of my earnings into a down payment and mortgage on a moderate suburban home, bought a sensible vehicle and put a little into a savings account at 5.5%. Suck it millennials...gen x forever!
How about we go back to the way things were in the 70s and kids can get great careers straight out of hs and a house only costs about a years salary
@bobbylupo, capitalism says no
Imo wages are just fine. I make 12 and hour and so does my wife. We both work about 25 hours a week and we love really comfortably. Nice 2 bedroom apartment, 2 cars, we go out to eat every sunday. We smoke plenty of weed. We just dont waste our money. People who go to Starbucks every day are the ones that need to be worried.
@no comprendo, dang, I would kill to be able to afford an apt on that much money! If you don’t mind me asking, where do you live with that low of rent? Where I live, a 2 bedroom doesn’t go for lower than 1900. It drops about an hour outside of the city to about 1600 for a 2 bedroom.
@no comprendo, can I ask where you live? Because damn that sounds nice.
@The Wolverine, I live in Kentucky. When I had an apartment a few years ago, I paid for 1000sq ft 2 bedroom 1 full bath for around $800/month. This was in the good side of town where maintenance was kept up. There were other far cheaper apartments (even in relatively the same area) for an even lower price.
Or, you know, live within your means so you can buy the basics of survival or go to school to get paid more or start an onlyfans whatever works without being entitled.
@fettman1138, Ok boomer.
But really. Comparative rates of income vs costs are abysmal, and that's a generous way to put it. True, if you only account for flat inflation rates, the minimum wage is about where it was in 1970, but the cost of food has gone up far more than the cost of most other things. There are a number of items and services which can considered essential now that weren't before (i.e. telephone, automobile, internet, computers...) and the minimum wage doesn't account for these items. Is it entitlement, as you so put it? Absolutely, people ARE entitled to a job which pays them enough to live on. They are, in fact, ENTITLED to a pursuit of happiness, which many are denied due to overwhelming financial problems which are actually insurmountable in the current economy.
No individual able to work should get free money, but a job should pay enough for a person to actually live on, and not just survive.
@Aegis, Thanks entitled one. When the internet is not used for work but for social networking or online shopping and you are bitching you have no food but posting it from a new iPhone I have no sympathy. Get priorities straight, get a basic phone and plan, use the internet for actual life necessities.
People need to stop wasting money on smoking weed, Cigs, or vaping and apply that to their basic needs. Once that is done and if you still can not afford the basic necessities I will listen.
If individuals are pursuing those specific things in life, that is absolutely their right, but they should not complain they can not afford food after making the decision to spend their money on what they pursue as happiness.
@fettman1138, couldn't have said it better myself
@fettman1138, You are still confusing surviving with living. And you even admit here that you believe a person's right to pursue happiness should be restricted if they are poor.
That said, nowhere in this snippet of an article does it say that the person who made the comment was spending frivilously.
@Aegis, no where does it say they are not and your perception of living proves my point. You belive everyone should be entitled to everything they desire rather then what they can provide for themselves or that they should have to make life decisions based on wage and circumstances.
@fettman1138, No, I don't believe that, so please stop putting words in my mouth. I specifically said that people should be able to work, the wages just need to be higher if we want to maintain a healthy society. I would even go so far as to say the exact of opposite of what you implied I think is true. People should be ABLE to work towards what they want, and they simply cannot right now.
@Aegis, yes they can, it just takes a personal choice to sacrifice what you feel you are entitled to for the basics.
You put the words and concept of survival vs living in my mouth. Trust me I know the difference because I have perspective.
Having a basic home, food, phone, safety ect. Is living.
All peripheral wants and needs are above and beyond, however, not a lot of people have that perspective or are willing to accept that what you make now days will provide for you if you align that perspective.
I have walked a mile, and then some, in the shoes of poverty and needing to survive, I also pulled myself out of that by working a minimum wage job living off the basics.
It is possible, it just takes work effort and the willingness to sacrifice and have perspective.
@fettman1138, It may have been possible for you, however, for a lot of people it is simply not.
As for putting words in your mouth, I didn't. I was making a statement that you don't understand the difference between survival and living, and based on your last post, I would say I'm correct.
You put forth the idea that survival consists of "home, food, phone, safety, etc."
Let's look at that (though I would call this minimum survival and not living).
Average rent cost in the US: $1,000/month for a one bedroom (obviously there are many fluctuations, but if a person can't afford basics, they obvious can't afford to move, so we'll take the median)
Basic phone costs: $30/month (For the most basic packages)
Food costs: $100/month (the average is actually $250, but let's lower it and assume they are eating basically trash)
Total(without car or internet): $1,130
Minimum wage at 40 hours/week: $1,160/month
Please sit down.
@Aegis, no, they are entitled to learn the talents that will help them obtain a job that well enough to live on. You don't need every new iPhone that come out, or a subscription to 5 different streaming services, or Starbucks every day, or 8 dollar beers, or a 1000 dollar apartment. When I was born, my dad was making about 25k a year, my mom didn't work, yet he still found a plenty decent way to support us. So yes, you ARE being entitled and pretentious. Not my fault you don't want to learn how to mix concrete or hang drywall, and will accept nothing besides what you went to college for and the bitch about money because you wind up working low level retail
@Not him again, Please read the rest of the conversation before replying, that issue has been addressed, and I don't wish to go through the same steps of explaining why that kind of assumption is wrong everytime someone new wants to reply.
@Aegis, that's not at all what you said. You said people can't work towards what they want right now, and then proceeded to state minimum wage stats. I said sometimes you have to take a job you don't want until the economy improves, because it pays more.
@Not him again, The type of job is not the issue. The cost of living compared to the minimum wage is. The worst jobs pay minimum wage because companies know that the people who take those jobs have nowhere left to go. They lack the education or training required to perform better paying jobs and they lack the money or time to seek to better themselves. Note that I'm separating money from time here, with only the minimum wage, they cannot afford to provide for themselves, let alone seek an education. If they were to take a second job, they MAY have enough money, but no longer have time between the two jobs.
@Aegis, he also neglected Internet requirements because it’s basically impossible to obtain/have/maintain a job without Internet access
@Not him again, Also, at 25k a year, your father made THEN almost double the minimum wage NOW when you were born, presumably about 20+ years ago, when the value of the dollar was higher.
And actually doing the calculation, in 2000, 25k a year would equal about $3,100 a month in 2020.
Sooooo... yeah, shockingly, he made, equivalently 3 times as much as minimum wage and was able to thrive.
@Aegis, No. Not all jobs need to pay a living wage. High schoolers do not need to make a living wage. They need to earn some money so they can learn how to use it properly and learn job skills and work ethic.
@Aegis, minimum wage jobs aren't meant to support you at 25 when you are trying to buy/rent a home and possibly support a family. They are meant for high school kids to gain some work experience. If they are going to double everyone's pay for doing a very menial take, then I say my pay should be doubled as well, as well as all my ASM's and department supervisors.
I've got 148 non management employees at my store. About 60 percent of them are full time. That's about 70k a week just for non management. Double all of management pay, which is only fair. Thats oh about 150k a week. So now we're up to 220k JUST for pay, not including benefits. We do about 1.2m a week in the busy season. Now we are down to 800k. Let's toss in another 100k for benefits. Now we are at 700k operational costs, theft, discounts, etc are about 550, so now that whole store is making 150k. That's the busy season. In the off season we might only make about 250k a week. How do you think thats gonna work long term
@Not him again, Why would you increase the pay of positions that already provide enough to live on? We are discussing the minimum wage, so your attempt to argue about jobs above minimum wage is entirely irrelevant.
As for your suggestion that high school kids are supposed to be paid that to get some experience, I will point out that full time students only have to be paid 85% of the minimum wage, and people 16-20 only need to be paid 4.25 for the first 90 days of employment, after which their pay must be raised to the minimum or they are terminated by the employer. Both of which would seem to imply that the minimum wage law already accounts for the idea of people just getting into the job market.
And, as I've said previously, the minimum wage is supposed to be just that, a MINIMUM standard to live on. And it certainly does not meet that criteria at the present.
@Aegis, none of that is true
@Aegis, These are the same people that say unpaid internships pay you in experience, as if it isn’t a MASSIVE privilege to do 40 hour weeks unpaid and get a higher education. In the same vein, its a massive privilege to work a minimum wage job without having to worry about living paycheck to paycheck cause your family covers you. Many people who don’t have those benefits and privileges only have a minimum wage job to turn to, and its clearly not a sustainable way to live, even though it most definitely should be. There’s no upward mobility in that position and no where else to go.
Respect for you for spitting facts @Aegis.
@Not him again, Well, yes, it is. If you aren't familiar with it, you should look up the actual federal minimum wage laws. A lot of states have laws that attempt to mitigate the abysmal gap from reality in the federal law, so perhaps it's not true in your state. But seeing as this is a discussion about minimum wage, people in states without that protection would be unable to move away from their state, so I have to refer to the federal laws.
@Aegis, ok, I stand corrected, it's never been like that in my state. I was unaware. Ever since I began working, the only industries that didn't have to follow minimum wage laws were those who heavily relied on tips, and if it didn't add up to minimum wage, the employer had to make up the rest
@Not him again, That's true for a lot of states, however, even for tip jobs, some states don't require them to match minimum wage, which is a whole 'nother issue that needs to be addressed.
In any case, the minimum wage is nowhere near enough to live on, which is the point of my comments.
@Aegis, I agree it should be raised, but not to 15 across the board though
@Not him again, I think 15 is actually a good start, and I can explain why.
If you take only the inflation rate from the point where minimum wage was it's highest equivalent value, it would be $13.88 an hour. However, this flat inflation value doesn't account for the rampant increase in housing and food costs, not to mention the costs now required for modern necessities.
I.e. internet, phone, automobile costs and higher taxes that have come about since then.
The actual value can be argued or discussed, but it should be clear to everyone that the minimum wage is not adequate.
@RogueKnight, I actually replied to a similar comment claiming the same thing. And, as I said, I don't like repeating myself, so I will just suggest you read the conversation further down.
@Aegis, pretty sure you need to sit down and listen, maybe you will learn something because your scenarios are laughable.
I choose to live with roommates and put myself through school on my states minimum wage of $9.60. If someone wants to better yourself they can go to trade school, college, tech schools while using the entry level job as designed. All while living withing your means.
Minum wage is designed to be an entry level wage, to start in the workforce and gain experience or help you through school
If you only strive to work at the bottom that is how you live, if needed get roommates or live at home to build work experience or finish school. Then you will have perspective, rather than assuming your unskilled job will bring you all of your hearts desires.
It is literally called minimum wage, it give you the minimum out of life, if you believe different you are entitled, spoiled and need to learn the world does not exist to provide for you.
@fettman1138, You really aren't understanding anything I've said, are you?
You had the ability to live with someone, not always an option for people.
You had the means to put yourself through school, not always an option.
You made 9.60, minimum wage is 7.25, if your state had a higher minimum wage, then good for you. Not everyone lives in a state with higher minimum wage.
Also, to rerereaddress your misunderstanding of minimum wage. It's a federal standard that was initially put into place to make sure that every american that works can live a decent life, not the bare minimum to survive, (which, by your own definition, it still doesn't cover, by the way).
@Aegis, the first minum wage was 0.25 That 25 cents an hour, if we upgrade it just by general inflation to today would be $4.20 an hour, but that $8,400 a year puts you into the top 20% of all global incomes. Yes, that is after we correct for the price differences between the US and other countries. So, given that 80% (actually, it’s 82.5%) of humanity earn less than this and very few of them are dying of poverty then this is indeed a living wage. Also by that standard, $4.20/hr would be inline with inflation, a minimum wage of $15 would be 3.5 times the rate of inflation.
You feel the minimum wage is not enough to live on, go ask how many other citizens of the world in other nations would kill to make minimum wage and could live just fine in America doing so.
@Aegis, cost of living from state to state is different though. Would it affect places like California or New York much? No. But in a cheap place I live like Missouri, prices would skyrocket and we be right back where we started, not to mention it would destroy retired people who live off SS or a pension. States themselves need to take more responsibility for their own residents
@fettman1138, The first minimum wage law was indeed .25. Cost to buy a home then was $3,900, cost now is $226,000.
I could do another cost v. Income breakdown for your suggested 4.20 an hour wage, but seeing as the current minimum didn't cover it and you seemed to be intentionally ignorant of the previous breakdown, that would be entirely pointless, so I'm just going to go with the first line from my first reply.
Also anyone think the newer generations are trying to not be like the waddle dees we see at walmart?
@no comprendo, don't forget they have to have Starbucks and 8 dollar craft beer. God forbid they drink folders and busch
Get an education or training and specialize yourself so you aren't just clipping burgers at McDonalds, something anyone can do, or a cashier at Walmart, something so simple, a robot can replace you.
Eating at grandmas house. That’s the secret.
After high school I got a job at a wastewater plant that started after $11, after a year I would've gone to $20+, dirtiest job I ever had but it could've been lucrative had I stuck it out. Had a friend who went into aviation. I paid $400 to go to a 2 month course during my nights on assembly riveting. Finished in the top 4 in the class and within 1 week of finishing I had a contactor offer me a job at a depot fixing aircraft for $25 fixed. After a few years with them I reset with another company to $19 an hour with upward mobility and in 9 months i was back to making $25+ now
And now all the armchair economists who have never even read a single book on economics come out. Always a true delight.