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I agree we need censorship. Of misinformation. And I don’t mean opinionated misinformation like politics, but factual misinformation. Like flat earth stuff, anti-vax stuff.
The problem with that, though, is that I wouldn’t trust anyone with that power, because power makes people do bad things.
@AceWolf456, I disagree with one specific regard, opinions are fine, yet specific opinions that have led to the mass casualty of human life needs to be specifically drugged out and ridiculed.
Censorship doesn't work, since mold grows in the dark.
In a comparison look at the differences between socialism and Nazism.
Socialism has killed more people than Nazism, yet in today's parlance is acceptable to monetize Che Guevara where Hitler would get you kicked out of polite Society.
Communism is still unpopular, but the root cause of it was able to be nourished by socialists.
A great example of this is specifically flat earthers.
Flat earthers first censored round earthers. Round earthers took over. Now round earthers censor flat earthers. Now cults of flat earthers are forming.
At the moment Communists are trying to censor Nazism. Censoring the ridicule and any who would speak against Nazism. Give it three generations, and commies will have brought Nazis back.
Tldr: to Simply ban a paranoid man, is to prove his conviction right.
Since to cut the tongue from the skull, is not proving the man wrong. Only that you fear what he has to say.
@That one lurker, “specific options that have led to the mass casualty of human life needs to be specifically drugged out and ridiculed”- Lurker.
Aren’t you against the vaccine?
@MrTuxPenguin, we have never told anybody not to get it, only that we will not. You are of the idealogue of faucism. That the vaccine is our only salvation. We are not.
We’re all fücked.
Who decides what’s factual?
This shït never ends well and the irony is it’s well intended people like you that dig our graves. At least you’ve given me an idea for a book. Cheers, and enjoy the dystopian hell you’re going to bring about.
@MrTuxPenguin, I'm not against any vaccine specifically. I'm still uncertain about RNA vaccines as a group. Since this is it's first time being used.
I personally will be waiting 5 or 6 years to take it. Any one else has the freedom to take it.
But the vaccine hasn't caused Mass casualties.
Nor has the unvaccinated.
If we want to talk about Mass casualties, I would direct you to Governor Cuomo's actions.
Where he knowingly put sick old people into nursing homes.
To go one step further Governor Whitmer who put sick patience in general into needing homes.
That is mass casualties.
And at the very least we know the reason why Cuomo did it, his office has admitted it was political.
His opinion should be ridiculed and any of his supporters or his enablers.
If you'd like to ridicule anti-vaxxer-ism as a whole, be my guest.
In this specific case of covid, TDS has killed more people then anti maskers or anti-vaxxers.
@That one lurker, So I’m gonna try ridiculing you as stated in your opinion. *clears throat*.
Are you fking kidding me? mRNA vaccines have been researched for years. Do a simple Google search and you’ll see that scientists have been doing research on it for years. Literally YEARS. And do you know how many vaccines have long term effects? If you guess 0 you’d be right. Literally 0. Because vaccines don’t have long term effects. Again the quickest Google search could of told you that.
As for your “unvaccinated people haven’t been killing anyone” you can’t be any more wrong. Do you know how diseases spread? Do you know why we invented vaccines? That is the the most BS I have ever heard in my life. YOU are killing others because you can’t get over yourself.
We’re not talking about Cumo. This isn’t about left vs. stop trying to push blame on others. This about you killing Americans because you can’t tell the difference between a peer reviewed scientific journal and a conspiracy theory.
@MrTuxPenguin, You’d rather listen to quack doctors and politicians (who have all gotten the vaccine btw) instead the people who’s job it is to prevent sht like this. You are the reason why America isn’t great and will never be great. Because you would rather actively kill your family and destroy your country then think for a second that you could be wrong.
And the worst part is all this will go over your head. You’re going to shift blame, bring up more bs, and do whatever it takes so that you don’t have to learn a lesson. Over 600,000 deaths because people like you would rather be stubborn than listen facts.
How’d I do? I always thought if you treat people with respect they’d return the favor but hey, maybe that’s not always the case. I’m willing to be wrong.
@Mag3rPayne, Over 600,000 deaths and now its mutating because you guys are letting it. This isn’t fascism. This is science.
Btw I’m not looking to start another argument with you. You seem like a decent person. It’s just that some of your views come out of left field…right field?
I know there’s literally nothing that can change your mind. Literally nothing. Remember when trump said he could shoot someone on 5th ave and not lose a single voter? You are that single voter. And that fact is destroying our country.
No one’s forcing the vaccine. You should want to do what you can for the country.
@MrTuxPenguin, you keep saying I'm going to die or kill my family, still here.
@MrTuxPenguin, there’s no getting through to these people sadly. With everything these days being so politically charged everyone wants to always butt heads with the opposite side. It never matters how much research has already been put into something when you’re dealing with those who think science is the devils way to corrupt people.
@MrTuxPenguin, I don't know who you think is peddling conspiracy theories, because I am stating the peer-reviewed scientific journals. This is the first time an RNA vaccine has had public use.
As for long-term effects there has been a few, I may be forgetting the specifics but there was some problems with the polio vaccine.
Which I'm not even suggesting a blanket prescription for anybody. I'm only saying I won't take it.
Ask for your breakdown into tribalism. You can't say that I'm killing people if specific Governor's policies literally put sick people into the place they were most effective.
Just step back and look at this objectively.
If one guy not taking the vaccine is murdering people.
Then a person putting patience that were confirmed to be sick into a nursing home filled with non sick people.
You're being tribalistic.
Since, yes mRNA vaccines have been tested for years, yet every time they try to make it public it's shut down.
If that's fake news blame Wikipedia not me.
@MrTuxPenguin, Mike Yeadon, ex VP of Pfizer comes out against the vaccines.
Dr Robert Malone, co-developer of mRNA technology, willing to give up Nobel prize to come out against mRNA vaccines.
Dr. Kary B. Mullis, inventor of PCR tests. Died Aug. 19 calls Fauci a bureaucrat who shouldnt be in charge of directing health decisions.
Safe and Effective, Safe and Effective, Safe and Effective, Safe and Effective,
They repeat that phrase so FVCKING much that it makes people think otherwise. Streisand effect.
@MrTuxPenguin, I saw your secound message after I posted mine.
You're wrong, in too many ways wrong. Both my parents are vaccinated as per my request. Because of my caution they got the right ones from reputable sources.
No going out to a Denny's or something getting a jab with a side of flapjacks.
I choose for my self what I do.
"This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe in. No matter the odds or the consequences.
With the Mob and the Press and the Whole World tell you to move. Your job is to plant yourself like a tree by the river of truth, and tell the whole world
No, you move."
Am I just to forget that the entire time during last year politicians from various sides was calling on a boycott of the "trump vaccine". Am I to forget just how turncoat they were the moment a Democrat came in office. This is all political gamesmanship, and I refuse to be a pawn or a statistic.
@MrTuxPenguin, as for the end kind words work wonders coming from a foe. But they're an insult when they are only saying it when they're in power.
@The Pun Shielder, You are the ones who keep sounding like fanatics. You just repeat that people who don't think like you are anti-science.
We can show you video evidence, FOIA emails and documents, counter studies. But no, it's always the same lines. Anti-vaxxer, Science-denier, conspiracy theorist.
"Lol, debunked on first page of Google"
What scares me is that penguin has it on his mind that we can be walking around healthy and somehow killing people, as if the vaxxed aren't capable of still spreading the virus too.
@Mag3rPayne, less filling! Tastes great!!!
@MrTuxPenguin, A person should have the right to determine what gets injected into their bodies. Everyone should also take responsibility for their own personal health. Where a mask if you want. Get the vaccine if you want. Or don't.
Do vaccines work? Sure. Should someone be forced to get it? Absolutely not.
and yes, the vaccine is being forced on people. either get the vaccine or lose your career that you have had for the past 20 years... look up Sacramento, CA.
@MrTuxPenguin, viruses mutate naturally. A vaccine wouldn't stop that. Covid is never going away and it has nothing to do with masks or vaccines.
@AceWolf456, censorship in any form is inexcusable. The problem is that liberals have taken over and dumbed down the education system for the last 70 years, and people today have not learned any critical thinking skills. They have been groomed as sheeple, willing to accept as fact anything that comes from the mouths of the state run media. Orange man bad? Ok. Virus with a less than 0.1 % mortality rate is the worst pandemic of a lifetime and requires completely shutting down and destroying the world economy? Ok. Earth is flat because I can set a ruler on the ground? Ok. We are literally living out the movie idiocracy, just as the liberals and the deep state have designed, so that they can live in unimaginable wealth, power, and prosperity and the dumb population will continue to vote for them to keep getting their government payment crumbs.
@AceWolf456, science is often used to back political arguments. Who on the opposite side would you allow to determine what is scientifically true or not? Think about how such a power could be used against you and thats how it be used against you and your beliefs.
For example what if someone with the power to censor decided that global warming was a myth and he decided to scrub all information that might suggest otherwise?
@Mag3rPayne, perhaps you have some actual papers that prove your points against the mRNA vaccines then? As a skeptic I always take things into account. Most of what I’ve seen are baseless claims and news articles.
As for penguin, he was a bit too radical for my tastes. While I do think it’s stupid to not wear a mask, as it’s still the best way to stop the spread, I don’t think you’re actively killing your family. You are however, not taking any precautions to protect them from a virus that could severely affect them, not just killing them.
The major thing to take from this is that mRNA has been under studies for quite a long time, regardless if this is the first public usage, it’s been under research for many years. So please, send me an actual scientific paper that pleads your point.
And lastly, I’ve been fully vaccinated since January. I’ve had no issues or any health problems.
@Bobaganusche88, problem with what you’re putting out there is it’s not just liberals, but conservatives as well. If you need an example just look to Texas and their sorry excuse of an educational board.
@Mag3rPayne, Mike Yeadon is an anti-Vaxxer that’s been disproven Dr.Robert Malone is basically one level above conspiracy theorist, Kary B. Millis was a global warming and HIV and AIDS are connected denier these aren’t great examples.
@The Pun Shielder, my precautions are keeping a healthy immune system via prophylaxis. Popped positive via nasal test, yet since I have been taking quercetin and zinc for a year, along with ivermectin after positive results, my infection was kept from increasing to severe disease. Viral replication was interrupted, and stopped it spreading to my lower respiratory system. I masked while infected around other people. Our point is, and Fauci has said this too, That masking does nothing during a full blown outbreak.
That website compiles all studies on ivermectin vs. covid with hyperlinks to each individual study. Its Safe and Effective.
@MrTuxPenguin, Thank you for advocating for the vaccine but i must point out that you're incorrect that they do not have long term effects. I don't know all the possible effects. We certainly can't rely on VAERS because anti-vaxx idiots post crap in there to discourage vaccines.
The AZ and J&J have been suspected to lead to VITT (vax induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia) and increased risk for GBS (gullain-barre syndrome). Very rare for GBS, like 100 out of 1.2 million.
@Mag3rPayne, Robert Malone seems somewhat controversial but was interesting to read about his position.
I struggle with how much info to provide to people because while the vaccine appear mostly safe, they do have risks. If i say GBS occurs in 100 out of 1.2 million seemingly more in the AZ vaccine which Irby even approved in the US... it's transparent but people have a hard time computing those numbers. It's less than their chances of dying if covid. We don't go into that much granularity with other medications like antibiotics causing allergic reactions or skin necrosis. Regardless of how small the numbers are, it'll be a big deal to whoever gets it.
@Mag3rPayne, googled the website, found on the FDA that they do not recommend ivermectin for COVID treatment. Another site, ebm.bmj.com, lists your source, and mostly ivermectin, in a very poor light.
And when I did jump onto your site you listed, 3 paragraphs in it explicitly stated that “While many treatments have some level of efficacy, they do not replace vaccines and other measures to avoid infection. Only 29% of ivermectin studies show zero events in the treatment arm.”
So all that was put together in my lunch break.
As for masks, it doesn’t prevent you from inhaling it, it prevents the virus from spreading from you, which if everyone actually wore it, would reduce the spread. Sadly we had many people who didn’t want to wear a mask.
So if you have another site I’ll add it too my to do list for homework :p
@The Pun Shielder, I'm on my work breaks too atm. My saved links are on my home computer. I read both sides of the data, peer reviewed, preprints, etc. My overall feelings on how I use my judgement on the situation as a whole, is this. Do I trust the scientists who have everything to gain from the vaccines success? Or do I trust the scientists who have everything to lose who are speaking out?
if you want another unapproved scientist to watch and get his opinion, check out Ryan Cole.
Time after time when you Google these people or check Wikipedia, you will notice the trend of smear campaigns on their names. stop letting journalists fact check for you, and listen to the scientists own words.
@Thone09, Did you form that opinion from first page googling and Wikipedia? Or actually listening to these men?
@The Pun Shielder, as far as trusting the validity of trusting any studies shared from both sides, always keep in mind this one.
@Thone09, in that video, he literally says he is not an anti-vaxxer, he says that he has major issues with the way the global health community is approaching these mRNA trials. if all it takes for you to shut out someone else's information is seeing the keywords like climate denier or conspiracy theorist, than you will never formulate your own opinions, only parrot others.
@Mag3rPayne, most of these come from trusted news sources like Reuters this issue with listening to them directly is you are going to cling to what you want to believe and it’s becomes impossible to see anything negative about them.
@That one lurker, Do you have any links for peer reviewed scientific journals?
@Mag3rPayne, Did you really just use the excuse “no one I know”?
@Mag3rPayne, Looks like YouTube doesn’t censor videos huh. I guess you can’t say it’s controlled by the left anyone.
In regards to to the YouTube video, Kary Mullins also has a book called “the HIV hoax” where he explains that HIV doesn’t lead to AIDS.
He also has another book “Dancing Naked in the Mind Field” (with a very generous photo of him on the front)
You’re taking advice from this guy?
As for Yeadon, he’s British. He’s talking about Briton and their vaccine.
But a quick Google search can also tell you what he’s untrustworthy as well I’m sure.
Also about your topic with trusting scientists who have everything to gain, you’re looking at it wrong. Those anti vaxxers gain fame. They can say they’re laying out all on the line but they’re not. Most of them are already not accepted by the general scientific community, And now they’re just trying to steal money from right wing group who will fund them as long as they keep saying whatever.
@That one lurker, Wait, Did you say you suggest your parents get the Covid vaccine but refuse to get for yourself? The rest we can hash out later but did I read that right?
@MrTuxPenguin, they use moderna and Pfizer in Britain too. I see you found Mullins Wikipedia page enlightening. It still doesn't mean he didn't invent the PCR testing method. You will find later that he recanted that statement. All I did was share the info. You are welcome to not accept it.
@RogueKnight, Yea that’s where we get into the grey area of freedom. Do you give a country the freedom to kill itself? Do you give a person freedom to kill itself?
But considering the majority of people in America don’t wanna die I’m gonna go with we do need some oversight. We’ve all benefited from having a government more than you can ever know.
And that leads me into the forced vaccines, The government isn’t forcing its people to get the vaccine. You can get it or quite your job. You have a choice. Kinda like you can work for Amazon or not.
Since you have to get tons of shots to join the military are you against the military too? Schools recently Did away with the law that you have to be updated on all your shots and now we have outbreaks of chicken poxs and measles again.
You have the freedom to kill yourselves, but not others.
@Mag3rPayne, Since you guys trust the FDA so much (so much not to get the vaccine because they haven’t approved it yet) I figured you might wanna look at this
Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19
@MrTuxPenguin, you act as if I have not seen that. But if I have the mind set that the FDA blacklisted existing medication to push the vaccines through, how do you think this would do anything?
@MrTuxPenguin, Covid is not the end of the world, stop acting like it is, a country just had a successful insurrection with an unvaxxed fighting force. Stop baselessly saying all unvaccinated people are killing themselves because my the covid recovery numbers from last year immediately disprove that, I'm happy cases are going up because the deaths aren't going up at the same rate. And the longer that happens, the mortality rating goes down.
@MrTuxPenguin, this looks like a study, that looks to be a "sales pitch" for mRNA vaccines. So I'd take it with a grain of salt.
The particular things that I was stating, if you'd go and have a reread, was that the vaccine hasn't been used on this or large scale experiments.
This was published in 2018, by its verbiage even in the opening paragraphs. They're making it out to be experimental, even with it being understudy since the late 80s.
If I could remember where I saw it where the FDA back in '01 and '08 failed to give them approval, I'd post that as well.
As for your last question. Yes, I deliberated with them for some time over what vaccine would be good for them. Looking over some things here and there. Since it's not recommended for specific cancer survivors, my mother's survived 2, while my father survive colon cancer and had an aneurysm.
They didn't know nothing and our family doctor retired. So while we were in between doctors,
@Dangerous Dan Spivey, Oh yea, Lurker wanted ridicule and you can’t get into details while doing that. I made a lot of generalizations had.
But that’s interesting to hear on the GBS. It seems that the JnJ vaccine has had tons of bad pores haha.
You see, if republicans were hesitant on getting vaccinated because of that I could empathize with them a bit more. If they had any real proof like that I could empathize with them a bit more.
@MrTuxPenguin, I looked into it. My parents are both in their 70s, I'm in my late 20s. I'm at no to low risk. Less so because I'm a recluse. I stay healthy with some boxing and lung exercises.
I'm in little danger of getting crippled from being ill. Mostly because I've been sick with covid already. Lost taste for three months but nothing else. During the whole of that time I stayed home, I socially distance, I don't wear a mask. Because I did my homework like a f@cking nerd.
Covid research is so partisan.
With individual doctors specifically coming out and stating on the record that they didn't test specific "cures" from Europe just because Cheeto Hitler talked about them.
So I don't want to hear much from a person if they validate their opinion based on where it came from.
@MrTuxPenguin, the point is that we are hesitant of the unknown that could develop in the future, saying safe and effective, only a year into human testing means nothing to me. It is completely reckless to vaccinate an entirety of a population, including the generations that are at extremely low risk, because if something does go wrong, hopefully not, we haven't just crippled the world.
@MrTuxPenguin, over the topic with RogueKnight and my reply. Have you heard of the fact that some people can't take the vaccine?
If not how does that change your opinion?
To medically bar individuals from working, based on government edict.
If so where's the bar? Covid? But that will change.
If the synopsis of the left is true, saying America is this horrible racist place. What would stop the government at that point to create a one drop policy?
Being black is biological, so is being jewish. We had an entire Revolution over the gay and trans arguments. If that's biological to. Then how can we say the notion can't expand.
Tldr:Give the mouse a cookie.
@AceWolf456, I could not disagree more. Silence a man on any topic and you're likely to make him think he's right. Let him speak his mind and he's more likely to engage with 'opposition', and therefore may *actually* change his mind.
@That one lurker, Glad to hear your parents are doing ok.
But you’ve thrown me through a loop. Why would you say the Covid vaccine is safe for cancer survivors but not get it yourself? I know you said you’re at low risk, but you can still transmit it. You caught it and the you can transmit it to others who may not be able to get the vaccine due to health reasons. You said you were a recluse and probably not at high risk of transmitting it, but you still caught it.
I’ll talk about give the mouse a cookie but I really wanna focus down on the your parents thing.
@Mag3rPayne, So I get people are afraid of the unknown. But it isn’t unknown. As Lurker said, we’ve been studying this vaccine since the 80’s.
Trust the doctors, scientists, researchers and the people who get their coffee. They know more about it than we ever can.
It doesn’t get any more sciencey than the CDC.
@MrTuxPenguin, no, having the cancers was the major issues. It could have made my parents on the eligible. I.e. medically exempt from the vaccine.
I understand you'd like to brow feat over personal responsibility. But another of my reasons for not getting it is activism for the people that can't get it.
So I'd like to push the issue about your readiness to through a group of people under the bus.
Letting them not go out to live life at best, or leave to get food at worse.
With that, do you think Australia is doing a good job?
One covid case, shut down the country.
Low vaccine requirements so they enforce a shutdown with the military. Turning the country into papers please over night.
With us looking to implement the same policies. I.e. federally enforced border control between states. Where you can't leave your state with out proof of up-to-date vaccination.
Tldr:he asks for a glass of milk
@MrTuxPenguin, you know breakthrough infections occur? If you trust the CDC you would know that you can, because they recommend you to mask still. They stopped low symptomatic tracking after recording 10k cases by April 30, then transitioned into only tracking breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths. How does that not grossly skew data towards the vaccines favor. Hiding potential breakthroughs keeps the efficacy higher.
@That one lurker, start thinking of it as proof of health, sounds stupid but that is what they are saying when you have to show vaccine status or negative results. What they are turning this into because people see someone without a mask and assume that they are instantly infected.
@Hot Coffee, preach
@That one lurker, You have a real good structure going on with the mouse asking for cookie. But I’d say it’s not a direct comparison. The mouse wants the cookie, and it won’t hurt anyone. Here the situation is more akin to the mouse refusing to take his medicine.
But, I’m still trying to figure out the parents thing. So your parents could of legally and realistically not gotten the vaccine (the vaccine you don’t trust) but you suggested otherwise to them. And now to advocate for those who can’t get the vaccine, you refuse to take it yourself?
I haven’t heard anything on Australia. I’m gonna have to look them up. See what they’re doing.
@Mag3rPayne, The CDC isn’t hiding anything. They say it on their website.
Vaccine is 94% effective. There’s gonna be some breakout cases.
The only reason why masking is still a thing is because a large percentage of the population is still unvaccinated. Seattle lifted the masking mandate. As did a lot of cities.
(But with this delta variant going around because some people let it mutate instead of get vaccinated it’s got people all scared again. But the vaccine is still pretty seductive against it so I’m not worried).
As for proof of health thing you said, you needed to show paperwork of vaccines to put you kid in school. Vaccines are proof of health. I know that you don’t have chicken pox, mumps.
@MrTuxPenguin, please do look up the correlations between Australian and the US.
The main contingency that I have is simple. My parents are 70. If the vaccine can help them now, but it has terrible effects on them in 30 years, they need to take it now.
I'm in my twenties in good shape, eating right, and staying away from people. I got sick once, it was nothing to me. I don't need the vaccine. In 40 years when I'm in the Target demographic I may get it.
And don't pull this spreading bs on me.
The vaccine only lessens the response of covid in your body. You can still get sick, and you can still being asymptomatic carrier.
So regardless if I got it or not, it wouldn't matter.
What my focus is on making sure people that are medically exempt from getting the vaccine, aren't made into second class citizens.
Here's my question with the mouse cookie analogy.
If a band posted that vaccinated people would pay 12$ while unvaccinated pay $1,200.
Is that anti civil rights?
@MrTuxPenguin, As of May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported vaccine breakthrough cases to focus on identifying and investigating only hospitalized or fatal cases due to any cause. This shift will help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance.
Previous data on all vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC from January–April 2021 are available.
They have not been counting all breakthroughs...
@MrTuxPenguin, you need to stop this unhealthy and factually wrong mentality that viruses only mutate in unvaccinated people, look up viral mutation. Vaccination is listed as a possible cause. You are accusing people that you don't like, because they haven't done something that you did. You are a peer pressure bully. I bet deep in your gut, you feel a sense of regret, you are worried too, but you just want others to get it so they can possibly suffer like you. It's the same reason HIV spreads because someone wants others to suffer the same fate they do, and have no problem not informing people.
@That one lurker, you work pretty hard at being dumb.
@Paul T, not all work is good work. But being at opposition to concentration camps isn't always popular.
@That one lurker, these are quarantine camps. Totally different...
@Mag3rPayne, and under a communist system they're not starving people to death and killing dissidence. They're only sharing the inequities of life.
There's so many dead people in the world, what right do you have to yours.
@That one lurker, So the vaccine works by not letting the virus live inside of you. Those that can’t be vaccinated want you to get vaccinated because it’s like building a shield around them. We’re protecting the compromised. The vaccine doesn’t just lessen the virus, That’s if you are part of the 4% exception where you get sick even after the vaccine. Vaccines are designed to train your body to kill the virus instead of letting it spread.
But also you’re right if unvaccinated people get paid more or less than vaunted people. Do you think it’s anti civil rights to discriminate people from voting if they’re a felon?
@Mag3rPayne, No links? No proof? Wanna tell me why mumps hasn’t mutated? Or chicken pox?
As a virus replicates, its genes undergo random “copying errors” (i.e. genetic mutations). Over time, these genetic copying errors can, among other changes to the virus, lead to alterations in the virus' surface proteins or antigens. Our immune system uses these antigens to recognize and fight the virus.
Stop the virus from replicating you stop it from mutating. Let the virus spread you let it mutate.
@That one lurker, in regards to Australia,
They look like they’re helping its people. Something they we aren’t doing.
Speaking of other countries did you hear how the Taliban want to run ‘their’ country? Single religion, ban abortions, anti vaccines, homophobic…does any of this ring a Bell?
If you do not have a perfect vaccine, that stops vaccinated from spreading, then it is "leaky". Why do you have to wear a mask right now if you've been vaccinated?
@MrTuxPenguin, didn't I tell you you would be lured by your sources to link Taliban to trump supporters. We can see the cogs in the machine before the news report even hits your eyes and ears. been saying it for days now. You just march right along, like the good German you are. Who's a good German? You are, that's who. The funny thing is those qualities aren't even how most trump supporters act. That's what they show you so you can generalize half the country and get you all riled up.
@MrTuxPenguin, and as far as felons being able to vote, as long as they pay their fines and serve their time I have no problems with it. That's how it works in Florida now.
@Mag3rPayne, You were so close. SO CLOSE.
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a conservative non-profit association that promotes medical disinformation, such as HIV/AIDS denialism, the abortion-breast cancer hypothesis, vaccine and autism connections, and homosexuality reducing life expectancy.
Here’s an article by them saying that it’s alright to discriminate. Weird how they went back on that huh?
@MrTuxPenguin, you really just trust Wikipedia, didn't your teachers tell you, or did you even read on Wikipedia that anything on that site should not be used an an authoritative source?
@MrTuxPenguin, you are the one who claims no medical experts are against vaccinations all the time. Obviously there are. If you don't trust all scientific opinions that's okay. I can choose which ones I want to trust. I wouldn't expect you to understand liberty with your authoritarian views.
@Mag3rPayne, Kristin Story Held is the President of the AAPS (second link you sent me). Here’s one off here recent articles. It’s a lot to type out so I’ll give you the headline.
LIFE-CHANGING: Harvard Medical Student Discovers 1 Secret Mineral That Helps You Lose 52 lbs In 28 Days
@Mag3rPayne, Well you don’t trust any sources. But I’ll give you some
I can give you more if you want. But I’ll you do the quickest Google search.
There are doctors that are against the vaccine. They just shouldn’t be trusted. You keep looking for a red flag but there isn’t any. You’re not looking for facts. You just want to be right.
@MrTuxPenguin, you are intelligent, you should know smear pieces when you see them. Neither of us are changing our opinions, I'll let you have the last word. I don't need a vaccine unless it's a one and done. I've got natural immunity for the time being. See you in the trenches when the false flag gets you to think you need to put your countrymen in camps/jail. Good luck with your job hunt in all seriousness.
@Mag3rPayne, Haha. Smear piece. Talk about being authoritative. You wanna let Lurker decide for himself?
But the way the JnJ shot is one and done.
Look I’m just telling you the facts. That’s not authoritative. If you want to turn a blind eye go for it. I just hope you don’t tell people you base your knowledge off of facts.
If you ever want to change your mind just know that the left won’t judge you. A lot of people grew up thinking conservative.
@MrTuxPenguin, so let's start off with the Australians.
The plan you posted is from January.
This is up to date. And it's spaghetti. I find it hard to navigate on a phone.
A few key things that I saw that it wasn't talking about was how the the military was enforcing everything.
As for the reason I have a problem with them.
They're making concentration camps for the unvaccinated.
Another issue is coming out of New York City. Mayor Bill De Blasio has made an executive order pushing out covid restrictions.
This is the back lash
The title was renamed, from
" backlash erupts as roll out of vaccine passport checks gets underway and NYC restaurants with some business owners branding the move 'segregation'"
@MrTuxPenguin, because a large population of the unvaccinated in New York City are Black and Hispanic.
They lay out the rest of the specifics. Meaning that you must have proof of vaccinations to go to any grocery store that has indoor dining.
I'm not sure about you but we have in Arkansas Walmarts that have McDonald's, Subways, ect. That would mean specific grocery stores would bar you for not having proof of vaccination.
The key thing in all of this is that there is no exemptions based on health or any other underlying conditions.
Guil barre syndrome, multiple sclerosis, and specific types of cancers. As well as many others I don't know about. Will stop you from getting groceries in NYC.
@MrTuxPenguin, back onto your first post.
" the vaccine works by not letting the virus live inside you."
Then go on to State
" the vaccine doesn't just lessen the virus, that's if you are part of the 4% exemption where you get sick even after the vaccine."
Then the last statement
" vaccines are designed to train your body to kill the virus instead of letting spread"
What you said here is self-contradictory and factually inaccurate.
Statements 1 and 3 are contradictory. Because of the specific way the mRNA vaccine works. Statement one is more accurate. Since the vaccines cut off of the food source of the virus. Viruses unlike other diseases are living. The body needs to fight a living viruses to strengthen itself. So that leads into why statement two is relevant.
Since we're not treating this like a flu and instead using the mRNA vaccine we are allowing this 4% to be the dominant chain in the evolutionary process of this virus.
@MrTuxPenguin, if we want to call this a shield to put around people that are unable to be vaccinated. Then the fact that 4% is getting in regardless, breeding regardless, and is transmittable regardless. Then that will be the most dominant strain going forward. Meaning that the vaccination just do not matter. Since the only thing I will protect you against of a dead strain of the virus.
As for your last statement. Tighten up what is to be a felon, the current jailing process at the moment isn't reformative it is retributive. As long as it's retributive then I agree that felons should not have the ability to vote. If we start to reform felons then I'll change my opinion later on, if needed.
Are there in lies the problem, is it a violation of a person's civil rights to borrow a person based upon medical status.
Or is it fine to let unvaccinated people died because of a "birth defect".
@MrTuxPenguin, to a separate note. The Taliban is just wanting to Institute Sharia. Christianity has nothing close to the fundamental principles of sharia. Regardless of how you want to butcher Muslims belief.
If you don't understand anything that's a Taliban believes that's fine. Since I've spent 5 years trying to understand Islam, I could answer some questions. Since you seem rather confused by the events taking place there.
If I viewed in the abstract like you're trying to do the Taliban can line up with the leftist/marxist values as well. Establishing a Theocracy, a removal of women's rights of privacy, institutionally accepted rape, and the ever constant desire to eliminate the Jewish race.
#pincushionsforprofit, specifically referring to, regular boosters required at over 6 billion in profits. This pandemic only seems to enrich those that promote it, doesn't it seem?
@That one lurker, So I didn’t see the date on that. Probably because I was on my phone.
But here’s one from the BBC that supports what you’re saying. (Can we stop saying BBC is leftist now?)
But I’ll agree with you that it seems like they’re over reacting to it. They don’t need the military to come in (unarmed).
The NYC one I see your point. 1. The mayor can’t make the companies do anything. He can put out a mandate but in the end it’s up to the company.
2. Especially in Arkansas. Gov has almost no sway in anything that happens there.
3. It’s up to the governor to protect its people. His city is dying because people are trying false information in the vaccine. Would you rather him do nothing and let his city die? (I understand it’s not the whole city but every life counts right?).
@MrTuxPenguin, on the date, it was far at the bottom in between a lot of stuff, that's why I didn't harp on it. I think Australia's websites just bad for mobile.
As for the BBC, they are state-run media, and they have a lot of biased reporting. They also advertise that they're not hiring white people unless they're gay. So I have my problems with them. It's not that they have a bies.
As for talking about Arkansas I was using that as an example. That we have Walmarts, Krogers and Targets that have dine in options. The fact that having a McDonald's in your market means you need to be vaccinated. Is my main thrust.
The second problem is that these restrictions are not going through the legislative process. They're being passed through the emergency powers of the executive order.
And to be blatant, Bill de Blasio is a fascist.
He made specific rules that cut the Jewish community away from every where else. While sending police to chain parks, disperse crowds, and spy on children in house
@MrTuxPenguin, when a lawsuit was made against his mandate. He pulled it before it could be judged. Then reinstated it. Saying that the lawsuit was over because the law was no longer active. Meaning they had to make a new lawsuit against this other law that's the same law.
@That one lurker, You got links for the gay thing?
For De Blasio bring a fascist, didn’t trump do the same thing? Just on a larger scale?
But you should be the biggest proponent for the vaccine. The longer the virus is out killing people, infecting others, it’s gonna get worse. The virus and the laws. You’ve got the benefit of seeing from both sides. Yes those that can’t get vaccinated are gonna get put on the spot. Discriminated against but not because they can’t get the vaccine, but because people are going to think they are anti vaxxers. And the longer we have this as an issue the worse it’s gonna get.
Walmart doesn’t want infected people in their stores. It’s bad press. Doesn’t matter what the laws are.
But the sooner we can put this behind us the sooner we can get back to enjoying making fun of anti vaxxers again. (Remember the memes?)
The science is out there. The vaccine is safe. But the longer you deny that the worse it’s gonna be for everyone including your parents.
@That one lurker, And that isn’t a threat or a statement to force you into complying. You’re parents are at high risk. Would you rather have them face Covid or the tested vaccine? Would you want them to face a mutated version of Covid because people allowed it to spread and diversify, or blockade it like we did with other viruses.
@That one lurker, So the felon thing first: I completely agree the jailing process is retributive. That’s stunting we should change. Felons need to be integrated back into society. But 1. Prisons are a company and make money of other prisoners so they can lobby for that not to be the case. Their argument is…
2. Conservatives will claim that the left is “brainwashing” or “converting” criminals now. That we’re putting them into “concentration camps”. That’s why we have a broken justice system.
On the vaccine thing, I don’t see how I contradicted myself. Maybe it’s because I know what I’m saying but can’t say it correctly.
It statement 1 is accurate “by not letting the virus light inside of you” then statement 3 is the how. You can switch it around. “The vaccine train your body to kill the virus, so that the virus didn’t live inside of you.
Your statement on cutting off the food source is incorrect though.
@That one lurker, For the 4% that does get through: no vaccine in 100% effective. You could say the same for any other virus. The reason why it didn’t is because the Covid virus (specifically) won’t get to enough people to mutate. Of the virus mutates every 1mill person, then you can drastically slow it down by only letting 4% of the population get infected instead of 99% (there’s a natural immunity I just don’t know what it is percentage wise). And if you get rid of all the places (people) it can jump to (by using vaccines) then it eventually dies off. That’s the ideal version. In reality, we have anti vaxxers who let infect them and others (Both non vaccinated (by choice or not) or they live other countries where they can’t get the vaccines. This is how outbreaks of other viruses start in other countries, Because they don’t have access to vaccines to prevent such outbreaks.
@MrTuxPenguin, first, before I dive in. What's the gay thing? If you're not specific I'll just send you chapter one of jojo for the meme of it.
@Mag3rPayne, They got this information from Reuters. Do you trust Reuters?
@MrTuxPenguin, Trump took a federalist approach to the states mandates. Letting the states deside how to do things.
If you mean the executive orders, yes but in a different context. Trump would make an an executive order over the Border. The activists would come out and sue it. He'd then drop it.
That's all the same, the major difference being.
When do executive order would be changed.
Think of it as a group of friends talking about what they want.
Bill de Blasio says pizza. Some people say no, and they discuss about. But in the middle of the discussion Bill de Blasio was holding a phone saying "hey I got the pizza joint on the line, what do we want?"
Same scenario, Trump says pizza. Some people say they don't want pizza. They start talking.
Then Trump says "ok, ok. You want chicken instead of pizza, how about we order pizza with chicken on it."
That's the best way I can think to put it, at 3:15 in the morning.
Bill de Blasio "said" you sued me once, well fsck you, try it again.
@MrTuxPenguin, your augmentation is flawed.
I understand that you trust the government. But do you trust the government just because it's the government or because it's your guys in the government?
I personally don't care who's in the government, I care where we're going.
I don't like that our governments are using Party politics to divided segments of the population through authoritarian and libertarian ideologies.
At this current Point The Authority has made so many blunders, that I could not give them the benefit of the doubt. I've seen the virus and I'm not scared of it. I've seen the vaccine and I am not scared of it. I see the government threats to steal my liberty, and how they'll treat people that can't follow their edict.
I say no to Nazism, not because they're arbitrary evil. But because of their nameable malice and disregard for human life.
So my apologies, I will not give the mouse a cookie, because I am not a eugenicist and because the ends never justify the means.
@That one lurker, with Blasio I was referring specifically to “sending police to chain parks, disperse crowds, and spy on children” statement. (Btw what’s the spy on children thing??) Trump sent in the national guard to police cities, and dispersed a peaceful crowd next to the White House for a photo op.
But no I don’t trust the government. I don’t trust corporations either. I trust the scientists. The people who made this their career. I’d go to war with the gov and the corporations if science weekly said to haha.
I do agree that the government is trying to separate the people though. You’re absolutely right. Divide and conquer. Trump and Biden are on the same side (even if they don’t know it). But I only see the left pointing it out. You don’t trust the government (understandable). But you’re letting it divide you anyways. Don’t be scared of the vaccine. The government isn’t trying to steal your liberty. Again that’s propaganda told to you by the government.
@That one lurker, You’re so quick to vilify the government but who’s telling you to do that? You’re going to say “no one I’m a free thinker” but every link you’ve given comes from a conservative source. The government. Like it or not, conservatives are government too. You even said that government dividing our population. You need people on both sides to do that. A left AND a right hand to pull society apart.
It’s good you’re against Nazism (so am I) because it does disregard human life. It also doesn’t have the science to back it up. It’s unsustainable.
Think of it like this, screw government, screw corporations. Those are people who put themselves on top. And you never trust someone who’s after their own interests. You trust those who put something greater than themselves first. The working person like you and me. You don’t trust those with the whip, but the grunts next to you. And the grunts are saying “the vaccine is safe”. Half the government needs to agree with them and the
@MrTuxPenguin, And the other half needs to disagree with them. Divide and conquer.
This isn’t a “the truth is being surpassed“ type deal. You have politicians, government, saying to not take the vaccine. Government is saying both. Take it and don’t take it. This isn’t a left vs right type ordeal. It’s a top vs bottom one. And you and me, we aren’t the top side.
But that’s my speech. Trust the government officials that say don’t take the vaccine. They’ve taken it. Government doesn’t care if you die or not.
@MrTuxPenguin, you have to be joking here, saying the Nazis and have science on their side. The Nazis were eugenicists.
The same kind of scientists that thought measuring skulls was a sign of intelligence. They were the prominent thinkers of their time.
They were on the foremost of science. Literally the bleeding edge.
I understand what you're saying with this, but it's blatantly misinformed.
That's one reason why the German people thought they could create an ubermensch. A compounding Factor of sociology and scientific study.
One of the ways that I know this is because of my studies into Margaret Sanger. She wasn't an extremist because she was a eugenicist, she was an extremist because she wanted to remove a portion of the population, because of eugenicist study into race.
It was the science.
@That one lurker, No one is talking about nazis.
Also this this why I bring up the Taliban
@MrTuxPenguin, to talk back on topic. All the politicians say to take the vaccine. There's no divide of take it or to not take it. The only people that are saying not to take it, are Libertarians like Rand Paul that is forced to be Rep. He hasn't taken it, including a small number of other congressman.
As for the split, your assessment is wrong in this Factor. We are being split authoritarian and libertarian. It's not left or right. You don't need two sides pulling into separate directions, you just need an axe down the middle.
The " follow us or die" mentality.
NYC has said it. And you're complying, even after knowing that it'll permanently remove portions of the population based on unmedicating factors.
In a plain contrast, tell me about the trans issue or why we shouldn't remove gay people from polite Society.
The entire propaganda campaign was saying gay people are born the way they are.
So imagine the entire scene in reverse. With you saying it's ok to discriminate against gay pe
@That one lurker, If there’s a political divide between taking the vaccine and not, then both sides can’t be for it.
We’re not gonna push blame elsewhere. You know the right was saying not to take the vaccine.
@MrTuxPenguin, this is so exasperating.
There is a political divide, not because of taking the vaccine, but the authoritarianism and terrorism revolving around the vaccine.
Republicans and Democrats want people to be vaccinated. If you decide not to get vaccinated the Republicans will say okay that's your choice.
Democrats will bar you from polite Society, remove you off your social media, and we'll make it so you can't go out to buy food.
@That one lurker, Get some sleep bro. We can hit it again in the morning. (Morning for me. It’s 3am).
@That one lurker, First things first. Good morning. Hope you slept well.
Secondly: I owe you an apology. I’ve been talking to you as if you and Mag3Payne were the same. He’s a conservative and you’re a libertarian. And while there is a lot of overlap today, they aren’t the same. Looking back at our discussion it all makes sense now. Even the giving the mouse a cookie thing. You don’t want the government to use the mask mandate as a stepping stone to take even more liberties. And while that seems like the biggest “duh” moment, all I have to say is be patient with me🥺. I didn’t go to college.
But you’re right, The authoritarianism side of things will always try to take over personal freedoms. And they can too because while libertarianism is about individualism, a single person will always lose to a group. But don’t fret, Because you can have a collective of individuals. Sounds contradictory but it’s true.
So let me ask you, do you feel represented politically or philosophy wise?
@MrTuxPenguin, non on both, I'd deffin my self culturally US conservative, politically libertarian, but fundamentally Christian.
There for, small goverment is good, I believe some but not all of enlightenment philosophy.
I.e. the construction of nation-states, the free market, and The Limited role of government. Those are John Locke's principles.
What you've been saying and what I found through talking with you is also Enlightenment principles, but they come from the extremist side of them. I.e. "socialism" and "communism", but fundamental Marxism seems more precise.
I think that you think in blocks of group identities. That's the fundamental principles of the Frankfurt School that fled the nazis to get here. This is one reason you have a hard time looking outside of left or right power dynamics.
@MrTuxPenguin, the Frankfurt School wants two segments people and portions of population based upon one or two characteristics. I.e. if you're black, you belong with the blacks, but if you're black and gay you belong to both. But individuals that belong to a dissident group, something that doesn't fit neatly in their previously organized boxes, makes them the outlier. That's where Marxism is.
Marxism is a revolutionary ideology that pits oppressor and oppressed against each other.
There was always the oppressor and there was always the oppressed. Regardless of the topic. Frankfurt School in the 60s found the way to discuss it.
They named it the critical theory.
This was constructed to eliminate the oppressor class regardless of the topic through ruthless and unending criticism. Critical sex Theory, men are oppressing women, because men make more, men are stronger, and men rape women.
Critical gender Theory, straights are oppressing gay people, there are more straights, there is no repr
@MrTuxPenguin, representation, they're born this way.
Critical race Theory, whites are oppressing blacks, there is more whites, they hold the big positions, there was once racism.
This level of criticism can be levied at any group at any level. You must have saw the sudden shift from gay rights to trans rights as the progressive talking point. Because it's all about the revolution it's never about the goal.
I personally hate the Supreme Court ruling that made gay people subject on the Civil Rights cause for discrimination. Because that latence ruling is forcing church's to go against their doctrinal belief.
Which is a First Amendment violation, and the exact opposite reason of why we took prayer out of the classroom.
The only thing that I do agree with, is something that a gay commentator stated.
"Now that marriage isn't an issue any more I can vote how I want."
The marxists now smear this man, because he's no longer one of "their" gays. He's allied with the oppressors. Which make him
@MrTuxPenguin, an anti-revolutionary. Which means he's now in a oppressor that needs to be removed just like everyone else.
It's fine if you didn't go to college. I did, this was my major. Spent five years and got my degree. So I understand, stuff washes over people, because it was purposely designed to be both manipulative and obscuring.
If I could speak personally, I could have never dreamed of a more evil ideology. Could you imagine an ideology that states that Oprah Winfrey is lesser then a starving white homeless man. Just because he is white and a man. The reason that distinction is important is because it's being taught in schools, to children. I could never see my self as a person if I preached the inferiority of black people to a generation of black children. How f@cking psychotic are these racist?
@MrTuxPenguin, No. Jim Smith, board member for Pfizer, Chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, Ex CEO and president of Reuters. No conflict of interest here, look the other way.
@MrTuxPenguin, I'm more libertarian than conservative. I voted trump because he was a populist outsider. Don't take that as conservative. I'm flexible on abortion if it's early, I don't care if your queer, but I take issues with trans saying I have to play along with their dress up time, and my issues with the vax are over long term data. This is not the first time the government has pulled schemes like this. Look into the botched vax for swine flu in the 70s and the goods the CDC pulled then.
I just don't think you have the same lived experience to make you distrust the gov that others have seen in your lifetime.
@That one lurker, So you consider yourself a liberal. Me too. John Locke is considered the father of liberalism.
And I don’t try to put people into groups. It’s a starting point to get an ideal of where one is coming from.
Gotta agree with you on the other stuff though, but it’s a good thing no one is talking about Marxism. Again, I’m only talking about liberalism which you have said you’re a follower of. Looking to people such as John Locke. And as liberals, it is pretty understood that the conservatives aren’t liberal.
Libertarians want people to get the vaccine they don’t want government to force them to get the vaccine.
To quote another famous libertarian “Mikhail Bakunin said, In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult the architect or the engineer.” ("What Is Authority?," 1871).”
In regards to vaccines, I defer to the makers of the vaccine.
@Mag3rPayne, Then don’t bring up articles if you don’t trust the company. You either trust Reuters or you don’t. You either trust PBS or you don’t. We don’t get to Cherry pick what we want. This isn’t the Bible Haha.
That trans comment proves your not libertarian. Libertarian is the ideal of free from authority. You can have problems with whatever, but if you vote for someone who (ie) bans gay marriage, You’re not a libertarian.
1. I don’t trust the government. That’s why I’m voting 3rd party. I want the government to do its job. (Trust me, Biden wasn’t my first choice either).
2. The 1970 swine flu killed 1 person I saw (I think that’s what you’re referring to). Covid has killed over 600,000.
3. You know who was President at 1976 when the swine flu broke out? It was Gerald Ford. Republican (after the switch so a now day Republican). His step father started Ford car company.
I’m against government, but I’m more against companies because you have a say in one of those things.
@MrTuxPenguin, oh, ok then. Before we get anything else.
That's a little long to type out, here.
I was using Yahoo who is mirroring the Washington Examiner.
@MrTuxPenguin, the hardest thing I think is getting across a simple factor. I am more conservative then Mag3rPayne but we're both libertarian. Which is different from being a liberal.
Lemme explain, maybe Mag would agree.
We are American conservatives, we believe in the founding principles of America. When we say we want to conserve, or that we are conservatives we want to conserve America, the founding principles of it.
The fundamental core of America comes from John Locke, on the idea liberal principles. This formed into a republic, with a very weak and begrudging federal government. Over the years the federal government gained power which shifted the nature of the country.
Like the institution of on American ideas and ideals such as Jim Crow and slavery.
Sense and the fundamental founding of America the founding fathers recognized that all men are created equal.
So to specify, I for one believe in the principles that founded America that makes me conservative. Those founding princi
@MrTuxPenguin, * principles are libertarian in nature.
Because I am looking to reform or conserve a portion of society that causes me to be on the right wing.
If we were revolutionary or overthrowing an existing system that would make us left wing.
@That one lurker, "a republic, if you can keep it"
@MrTuxPenguin, my trans comments were exactly on form, I dont care if they want to be considered women. I care when I,..."I" .... have to be forced to consider them women.
@That one lurker, So I checked out the second link and it wasn’t a single website but I got what you were saying.
He’s not the sole guy who worked on it. He was one of MANY and now he’s trying to get clout for being anti vaxx. For every crazy there’s 100 who have worked on it saying it’s safe.
That’s not what makes you left or right. Being a revolutionist doesn’t make you left as much as being Christian makes you right.
But I do see what you’re saying.
America has progressed so much from the founding fathers. Back when slavery was legal to now. It’s great to keep those founding principles but those principles were on helping the disenfranchised, And giving people the power. To keep being progressive and always try to make America a better place. If there’s a better solution find it and implement it. We don’t ever stop trying to innovate. Voting conservative stops us dead.
@Mag3rPayne, Ok that clears things up. Let me hit you with this, trans people don’t care what you think. They just want to be trans.
You can choose to respect them or not that is totally up to you.
If anyone has gotten over what others think of them it’s the LGBTQ+ community. Trust me haha.
@MrTuxPenguin, just start from the top, "in regards to vaccinations I defer to makers of the vaccine" that was in reference to the quote you brought up about defining true Authority. Then the moment that I show you an authority on the matter, you shift it to cherry picking.
I don't believe the reverse is true, since it's good to know the opinion of all experts on the matter. But to say that one sources good and the other is bad just based on your personal opinion, it's disingenuous.
In fact it leans you to being more authoritarian.
Left and Right are literal terms that refer back to the French Revolution.
We're after the monarchy fell. You had the people that wanted to use the power of the monarchy and their connections to legitimize the government setting on the Right. And the Jacobin party that wanted to destroy the state religion, that one of the kill all nobility, that wanted to kill off the clergy. All to make a fair world.
The Left refers to revolutionaries, the Right is to keep
@MrTuxPenguin, the gains of what was.
That is by the literal definition of the words, historical and present. So that's another false equivalence.
And lastly I disagree, every push for progress in America has turned out terribly.
To specify, after the founding documents made the guideline, everything outside that guideline is progress.
Sadly, progress included such measures as segregation and Jim Crow.
Because it was a part of the founding principles of America that all men are created equal. If the southern states recognize this to be fact we would have ended slavery long ago. So when the Thirteenth Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments came about it was putting everything in stone. That slavery is wrong and every free man has the right to vote.
The southern states decided to do the progressive thing, as they're doing today. Instituting segregation and Jim Crow.
Learn some history on this.
Sometimes history can be black and white, we need to learn it, so it's not repeated.
@MrTuxPenguin, on your mag comment I have one rebuttal. Trans people do care what you think. What is a pronoun?
You don't use third person words when they are there. But when you're talking about them.
So they literally care what you think.
@MrTuxPenguin, it's Ma'am! Videos completely disprove that.
@That one lurker, I’ll admit you got me on that Malone guy. But he’s not the inventor of the vaccine. He did do some research but when he dropped out of school to work at Vical he even said they stopped him from doing more work on the matter.
If Pfizer made the vaccine, and Malone never worked for Pfizer then he didn’t create the vaccine.
Jim Crow laws weren’t progressive. They wanted to conserve racism.
Trans people want be respected. You wouldn’t call your dad boy.
@Mag3rPayne, What’s ma’am videos? Oh the meme? You can’t point out one example and say that for everyone. It’s like saying “this one scientist said vaccines are bad so ask scientists say vaccines are bad” or “a Republican said he believes in Q Anon so ask republicans believe in Q Anon”.
I known trans people. Don’t generalize.
@MrTuxPenguin, you are comfortable generalizing when it comes to people who don't want mRNA vaccines. What happens if you misgender your trans friends? Do they care?
Also, with the FDA approval for Pfizer, do you have any concerns about the fact that the ex commissioner of the FDA works on Pfizer's board (Scott Gottlieb)?
Or Stephen Hahn, the FDA commissioner who took over after Scott, who just took a job at Flagship Pioneering, backer of Moderna. They will most certainly profit off of their decisions they made in government. Are these positions rewarded for their help in the regulatory processes?
@MrTuxPenguin, you misgauged me bringing him up. By the research and knowledge I've done he's done work with mRNA vaccines in their discovery. My statement wasn't that he created the Pfizer or the moderna. He was one of the people that helped make these vaccinations possible. I don't trust mRNA vaccines not because he said not to or the experts to say too. I've done my research, falling in line with this one guy. The reason why I'm not taking the Johnson&Johnson is political. Since there is a group in the US that can't take any vaccine, they need people to stand with them.
As for bringing him up, I hate the idea that you're using confrontational language. You said it your self, you didn't study this stuff like I had. So I'm not trying to "own you" I'm trying to juxtaposed propaganda with critical thinking.
I would call it propaganda, since you have no information that doesn't circled back to the authority.
@MrTuxPenguin, the problem with our disagreements specifically on definition of topics like "Progressive". Is simply the word has no clear definable definition except to move forward. Which can be easily turned in later portions to being a bad Direction that "wasn't progressive".
If I may ask you. If I could provide you proof, that people are using Progressive logic to reinstitute white supremacy and segregation.
Would that be an effective enough to get you hear out the reasoning?
Also, "trans people" is a loaded term are you talkin about the activist are the people that have active diseases that need to be treated. They're two separate entities with one praying on the other. I disagree wholeheartedly with the way that you're using people with mental diseases as shields to further an idealistic goal. If you didn't mean to fine but if you did, then we can drop the topic on a case of bad faith.
@That one lurker, So the people who can’t take the vaccine want others to take it. Again it’s that barrier of immunity to protect them.
(Unrelated: What if I called you a racist for trying to stick up for those that can’t get the vaccine because you think they can’t do it for themselves. Wouldn’t that be crazy! Dying reverse racism or something).
Malone clarified that he was not discouraging the use of the vaccine but was providing people with as much fair information about their risk.
We know the risks and the benefits outweigh it. He has no evidence to back up his claim.
I would say if you went to school for this then you’re brainwashed. Right! That’s what schools do? Or we can say people who have gone to school for this are smart and we should listen to them. Either way you cut it it doesn’t look good for conservatives.
@That one lurker, So I’m using the word progressive as political. Progress to mean (Not political) means making things more effective, and people happier. And if the progressive party decides to start hiring white nationalists like fox did, or give a platform for them then I’ll switch sides.
I’m true to my beliefs first. Not my party.
Also I bring up that article about Malone because I want to be proven wrong on him. Let’s discuss him. Not to just shut you down.
@Mag3rPayne, We’ll I’m trying not too generalize when it comes to people who don’t wand get the mRNA vaccine. Right now my generalization is that they don’t have any reasonable excuse. And so for I’ve been proven right. The only ONLY real evidence is the guy Lurker mentioned. (And that’s just at a quick glance). Otherwise it’s quack doctors or uninformed posts on Facebook.
So if I misgender my friend they’ll correct me. But that’s because I care to be respectful and they know that. If someone doesn’t care, they aren’t gonna try to change you. They’ve given up on disrespectful people.
I also think of pride in the FDA we’re on Phfizer’s side they would of gotten it approved earlier.
@That one lurker, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/watch-trump-booed-after-asking-crowd-get-covid-19-vaccines-2021-8%3famp.html
If it helps Trump doesn’t believe Malone.
@MrTuxPenguin, before I send you those links. Let's recognize something, since you brought it up as a point.
The left-wing media has been screaming that Trump is a fascist for the past 4 years. During those four years they have called Trump supporters cultists.
So now that we're at a place where, Trump takes credit for the expediency of the vaccine and it's safety. And he is booed by his "cultists". With the only retort being, hey man, that's your right.
Trump has been pleading people to take the vaccine. Because he wants america to be safe.
The end of last year Democrats up and down the aisle said they wouldn't touch "trumps vaccine".
How am I supposed to take a group of politicians seriously when their first reaction to a deadly disease is to politic.
If there could ever be an example of why Trump was the better man, look at him now.
He wants people and families to be safe, politicians just want the political win.
This and everything spawning from it, is why I resist.
@MrTuxPenguin, FirstLink is the construction of white of affinity groups
Where white kids are separated from other people, to discuss what white people have done.
Please read in full.
The second link is a news article about a mother finding out about the segregation occurring in her child's class rooms.
The over and under of all this can be linked to CRT. The applied study of critical theory onto race.
All the way from racially segregated college dorms
To public and political positive affirmation
There is a growing and creeping force from the left to bring us into a society that recognizes and considers race as the defining mark of a person.
@MrTuxPenguin, on the vax, I know. I read it. That was the original article I was trying to send to you. You then said that for every one of him there was 100 that would say otherwise.
The end of your statement makes no since, you watched tv, they said take the jab you said ok. Then they said Trump supporters and conservatives are killing grandma. So you yell at me for killing grandma.
Exaggerating to absurdity aside, before we even started these conversations. You had assumed that since I wasn't taking the vaccine that ment I was advising my parents not to. That is what I call brainwashed. A close book definition could be found as the second definition of American Heritage dictionary of English language 5th edition.
"The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation."
@That one lurker,
@That one lurker, I deleted everything I said because this matters most
Did you just say Trump wants America to be safe so he’s asking people to take the vaccine? Did you really just give up on your argument that quick because a politician said too?
What about the dangers of mRNA? What about long term effects? All that just gone now?
@MrTuxPenguin, my argument was three fold. Simplified to this.
1.we don't know the long term effects.
2. Evil basterds in goverment are trying to make people second class citizens.
3. If everyone folds to tyranny, then people to stupid/unaware of what's going on will be crushed.
Trump wants Americans to be safe.
So he asked people to take the vaccine.
Taking the vaccine will never be the end. Since we all know about the boosters.
The US goverment now gains mass compliance to
1.lock down the country for any "medical emergency", regardless of if it's real(like covid) or not.
2. Federalization of individual states, making fly over states local and National level politics irrelevant. Through the simple action of no longer leaving the decision up to individual states.
Sub 2. Regardless of what you think of the man, Trump did something beautiful in the eyes of every small town Republican. When given the chance to mandate a Federal response. His response was to let the state's do as they saw
@MrTuxPenguin, fit. Democrats was Furious about this. It's literally impossible he set out every note and fact about this. Just know that because Trump gave the power to the states four Democratic States including Michigan and New York killed old people in nursing homes to pump up the numbers. Making this all theater from the very start.
I could go on. But my morning is short. One reason why I wasn't able to get to this yesterday was cause I've been super busy. Grabbing refences, sending videos. Just to prove what? The evil f@cking comi bastards are evil f@cking comi bastards. If you think things are going fine then I can't change that. You also can't yell at me loud enough to take the jab. Because I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing this to stop a group of people from turning into second class citizens over night. Jim crow was and is awful. We can't change the fact of that. But Jim Crow didn't spring up one day, it referred to a group of laws that came over the course of 30 years.
@MrTuxPenguin, also, I tryed to give you fair news sources when talking about subjects. But if litaraly the right are the only ones talking about it, it's really a cůnt move to toss it as "right wing propaganda" just because you disagree with the source politically. I have factual problems with sites like Yahoo and MSNBC/CBS/CNN because of undisclosed bias in the reporting and the construction of narrative lies. Take russiagate as the pure example, because it started with "the piss dossier". The document was payed to be made by the DNC to an ex-English spy. That was fired because he was taking money from Russia. The piss dossier moved through the hands of every outlet, but was broke a week later by buzz feed. After the initial run of it roughly 2-3 weeks the story died. After that CNN started reporting as if the document was true. Then every one jumped on board. It was then used in Donald Trump's first impeachment as the reason why he should be impeached.
Later we found, it was all a
@That one lurker, lie. With zero credibility.
While the fat cat media got rich off the whole f@cking shït show.
So sorry if I use one source with a right f@cking leaning. When all of left wing news doesn't want to f@cking talk about something like the return of racial segregation, then I guess it becomes a right wing opinion.
@MrTuxPenguin, have you heard of ivermectin? This medicine has been researched for over 40 years. We should be having hospitalized patients with COVID taking this. It’s been shown to cure/rid the virus in less than a week. Corporations sadly haven’t been promoting this because they can’t make money on this drug. I agree with lurker. I personally haven’t taken the vaccine because We don’t know the full side effects. Usually vaccines are tested for several years before released to the public for mass use.
@That one lurker, So Trump is urging people to take a vaccine that we don’t know is safe yet right?
Doesn’t sound like he really wants America to be that safe. Right?
@Crossicus , I just heard about it yesterday-ish. I have only heard it’s name and they were using it in India? Don’t know anything else shout it though haha.
@MrTuxPenguin, if you believe in that supposition, that's fine. That's not my overarching argument.
I've explained my side over and over again. At this point it's a willful ignorance and bad faith.
To specify, if the vaccine has side effects later on it'll be his fault.
If they don't, then you'll never give him credit because you're a spineless hack.
Unless this rabbit snare is your admittance that he's done a fantastic job.
So much so that everyone should throw caution to the wind and Trust Trump with 100% of there future medical endeavors.
If you want to have an honest discussion about this, I'm more than up to it. Right here you're showing me you have no idea of the scope or the scale about what's going on.
Unless you're happy that fascism is taking over in America.
@MrTuxPenguin, also Ivermectin was one of the possible treatments Trump was talking about. So it got canned immediately.
Makes me f@cking hate politicians.
@That one lurker, If the vaccine has side effects it’s the scientists fault. Trunk has no part in the vaccine. He gets no credit or blame.
All I’m saying is you can’t say trump is looking out for the American people by telling people to get the vaccine while also claiming the vaccine can cause unwanted side effects.
You can’t have it both ways. Unless you’re saying that there are no side effects of the vaccine (yet) and this you’re afraid of what if rich isn’t a real argument. In the meantime you’re just making the pandemic worse by being an anti vaxxer.
He must not of believed in it that much if he’s saying take the vaccine.
@Crossicus , Oh is that the medicine they use to get rid of worms in animals?
The FDA says not to use it. I thought we were trusting the FDA because they didn’t pass the vaccine. Well they did now but before.
Looks like it’s still inconclusive.
@MrTuxPenguin, on crossicus post, since it's short. Saying that it's "that medicine that gets rid of worms in animals". Is subtractive many medicines do many things for many things. To just remove all the other context to just call it a drug for animals is absurdity.
Honestly with how much you're trying to pin label anti-vaxxer on to me, you're exhibiting the real anti-vaxxer mindset.
I.e. apples have arsenic in it.
We are not feeding rats apples when we put down our arsenic traps.
@MrTuxPenguin, Trump said out a policy called operation warp speed. Operation warp speed allowed medical companies like Pfizer to test portions of the drugs at the same time as other phases.
Normally how it works is each phase is done in sequence. Which would normally take years upon years.
Allowing time to rear its ugly head to show some major side effects. That is the purpose of this process.
This also allows any self-correction to be done when needed.
Since Trump allowed them to work at "warp speed" if there is an overall problem with the drug that one has become apparent if more time and dedication was put into it.
Then it's his falt.
Just alike it's his falt that people will live if the vax is good.
Because those individual people, would have died without it in the mean time.
You're logic is bafflingly short sighted and narrow scoped.
I would understand your line of questioning if you had no idea what operation warp speed was.
@MrTuxPenguin, but I assumed you understood that your championing Trumps vaccine. A vaccine that is only possible because he removed so much regulation that's ment for safety.
Yet, Trump supporters are the f@cking cultists.
F@cking authoritarian goose stepper. Following the Piper of Hamelin to the nearest river to take your last bath.
@That one lurker, Hey I’m not trying to pin anything on you. You are against the vaccine. That makes you an anti vaxxer.
So it’s trump’s fault you don’t trust the vaccine. Ok. Because he sped up the process.
I guess it’s a good thing we didn’t re-elect him if he’s gonna just rush a vaccine then tell people not to get it only to later go back on that.
That’s what I would say if it was true. In reality the Covid vaccine went through all the tests all other vaccines go through.
This comes from a hospital in a red state so it’s more trustworthy right?
@That one lurker, Op Warp Speed just gave unlimited money to the company’s that actually made the vaccine. Trump then put Fauci in charge.
But because the vaccine came out during Biden’s administration, republicans were so quick to start talking sht about “their” vaccine (it’s really the companies’) and Fauci.
You just bought into it. If you were afraid of long term effects you’d only eat organic foods, cut out sugar, and regularly go to the doctor’s who would then tell you get the vaccine.
But because all you’ve heard is vaccine=bad you’re inclined to believe it and look for any reason to back it up.
@MrTuxPenguin, look, you said it yourself, your not educated on the topic. The mere fact that you're getting a basic pieces of information wrong is a clear sign of that.
And it is obvious at this point that it is impossible to tell you or at least teach you anything. Since you have proven yourself to not only be incapable of reading but also incapable of critical thinking.
I'd be willing to continue this conversation if you'll acknowledge your massive ahistorical f@ck up.
You've made three in these two post.
1. Trump was always asking people to take the vaccine for the very start.
2. The covid vaccine testing was able to be done simultaneously, which stop research for long-lasting effects. This was due to the guidelines inside operation warp speed for removing these boundaries.
3. The vaccine was released shortly after the 2020 election. Trump got an experimental shots before the election. There is videos of Biden getting it in December.
@MrTuxPenguin, cont..3.. if you can't discern accurate days on a calendar. Then God bless which ever guardian angel has helped you this far in life. And I immensely feel sorry for anybody that knows you in real life. They all have my sympathy.
@That one lurker, you may be too smart to be on funny pix. But thanks for the post
@Gothem, leaving a platform because you're to smart makes the place dumber.
I'm not smart, I'm just what was left.
Two brain cells on a hamster wheel.
Censorship has been proven time and time again to not work. Ideas do not go away when they’re suppressed, they just go underground, where it’s harder to keep track of them.
The bigger modern problem is social media algorithms that make it very easy to get sucked into a bubble where you’re only surrounded by people who think a certain way, and any opposition to the groupthink is regarded as heresy.
This applies to both the left and the right, politically. Both sides surround themselves by people who only agree with one point of view and reject anything to the contrary.
It’s led us to a point where we can barely communicate anymore because no one is listening.
@I Are Lebo, it was better when the representation of both sides were forced to stay in DC, they're families and children went to the same schools and they had to put up with each other and maintain civility.
@I Are Lebo, inserting politics into everything (mostly the media for a long as I can remember) has led to the belief, that if someone doesn't have the same opinion, they're not just wrong, but bad people. Which makes these ecco chambers into little internet gangs.
@I Are Lebo, hence the musket
"The right to an opinion" is a damming thing, there's lots of people in this world that the right to an opinion, like a doctor, if he's about to open my skull and operate I've listened and trusted his opinion, but Dave at the bar that said he read a Facebook post about vaccines should also be allowed his opinion, I'm not saying we stop Dave from making noise out of his mouth, but let's just look at the bigger picture.
The problem with this is some political figures have been trusted because of their opinions and its turned out pretty bad for everyone involved, so is there a right way to do this, it seems at every turn there's someone being oppressed or used, beaten or worse
I'm very sceptical about the whole left and right divide to be honest, it's almost too perfect that it exists and some people can profit off of pushing the right to attack the left or vi's versa
@butternut squash, Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, but not everyone has an informed opinion.
@butternut squash, experts get it wrong more often than they'd like to admit. Look at afghanistan, the experts(17 intelligence agencies) said there was no way it was possible. They didn't plan on the Afghanis just surrendering without a fight.
Every inch you hand the government is an inch you’ll never see again in your life without a violent insurrection. You give them the ability to censor SOME things, assuming they’ll only censor stuff you don’t like? Guess what, new president in four years, and this one extends that power further and is now censoring some of the stuff you do like, and you have no way to roll that back. Extend that to every possible concept, and account for the fact that the federal government REGULARLY does things that are against the best interests of the people, and you get the general idea as to why I consider myself libertarian.
@DesignatedElfWhipper, people like to say it's not censorship, but private company policy. Dr. Shiva uncovered that we have state election officials that have private portal email servers were the officials were telling Twitter who to monitor or remove. This is the man who invented email... He had to represent himself in court because no lawyers wanted to touch the issue. He also uncovered a vast spiderweb of government and private election companies that work together to engineer the elections. Both sides involved. He found out about NASED, where the 50 top election officials collude together. We have a government-corporate technocracy now.
Why do I feel like the people who like this meme would also like the 1776 report?
You can have my musket
I will follow you to the ends of the earth butthole glitter.
I am happy to enjoy political stability up here in Canada. How are you Americans doing?
@Emp4th, Not getting jailed/fined for holding opinions the government dislikes. At least not yet, we’ll see how long that lasts.
@Emp4th, I am interested to see how our upcoming election goes
@random09, Just learned that they called an election. I don't know if there has ever been worst timing.
"Let's call an election the moment everyone is polarised on every issue".
Some of the issues they raised up in CBC poll made no sense as to why they would be raised now.
@Emp4th, I don't even live in CA and I knew they were doing that. Saw talks last week about about Trudeau wanting to dissolve parliament to hold a special election so he could try and swing a majority.
@Emp4th, ya trying to hold an election right now is not a good idea. Odds are it won't go well for him. I bet it will be another minority government.
@random09, or worse. Harper 2.0. Religious and racial minorities can say goodbye to their rights if that happens.
@Mag3rPayne, Happens in parliamentary democracies. The UK were stuck in an election loop after the brexit vote went through.
Revolution? I’m in. I’ll bring snacks.
“Unfettered conversations are taking place…” -NYT
Sound the alarms!
@Cave Dweller, 4 years of not my president, Russian agents and bots are the blame for dislikes, rioting for 100 days on a federal courthouse, billions in city damages from BLM protest. - This is deemed acceptable
10 months of this election is sus, or I think the CDC is overstepping. - "You are now deemed enemies of the state and should be rooted out from society."
@Mag3rPayne, “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity” unless not doing so can adequately be explained by the same.
Ben is busy being neck deep in Old Widow Martha then he'll be right with you