The Netherlands did that to themselves though.
@AverageIdiot, but what did they do? I can't find anything online that explains this meme.
@LyricTerror, they voted to have insane prices in order to be not reliant on fuel imports. I'm not knocking it, just saying I don't feel sorry, because they elected to have those high prices. It was a choice the country made.
@AverageIdiot, interesting thank you
I can't wait for future generations to recognize that we've built cities for cars, not people and then to hopefully reclaim that space in a meaningful way. I'm personally tired of car culture being put above safety of walking citizens and walkable cities.
@FoodEatsI, same. I would rather be able to walk and shop near my home. I'm all with ending suburbs, too.
@LyricTerror, what does "ending suburbs mean"?
@WelI Obviously, to end single family zoning. A form of institutionalize racism, designed to keep minorities out of white neighborhoods by increasing cost of housing and decreasing supply. Simply allowing mixed-use zoning would be an immense change in a better direction.
@FoodEatsI, how is only allowing residential housing to be built in an area racist? A house being expensive is just supply and demand. Pretty sure you can go to the Detroit suburbs and buy a house for about the equivalent of one month rent in the city. Honestly the only racist thing is assuming how much money someone makes is based on what race they are.
@WelI Obviously, give it a single google search bruh. It's been the ONLY zoning allowed in mass since the 60s. Creating an artificial supply deficit of housing, to disallow communities of color that are typically poorer, from purchasing said homes. It is illegal to build mix-use buildings in most of the US.
@FoodEatsI, Yes, suburbs are racist, because reasons... It's so much better if we all cram into cities. That would make everything better...
Minorities are more than capable of buying property in the suburbs, but they are led to believe they should live in cities where they don't own anything, and pay exorbitant prices for crappy things. Philadelphia for example has absurd taxes. But you see an abundance of minorities living their, renting, paying high taxes, and not trying to leave.
Its cheaper to live in the suburbs and better for everyone. We aren't meant to all live on top of each other.
@thatoneguymaybe, stop being racist REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
@thatoneguymaybe, Looking up the history of redlining will give perspective on the way housing/zoning and racism are connected, combined with how gentrification has affected different populations, it’s an interesting look at the effects it’s all had on people of color.
@The Despondent, someone who has done their research. I appreciate you friend 😉
Unlike the people who see the word racism and the logical part of their brain shuts off. Then go on to down vote anything they don't already agree with instead of doing research to verify their stance. Truly wild the lengths boot lickers will go to to ignore facts 🤡
@FoodEatsI, I'm not arguing whether zoning exists or not, it definitely does, and personally I'm ok with it. Yes houses are expensive, but just because a thing is expensive doesn't make it racist. To be fair price per square foot is considerably cheaper in the suburbs.
Now, blockbusting and redlining are a whole other situation...woof
@FoodEatsI, as a minority, moving to the suburbs is the goal and changes our family history. You’re the one ignoring the facts and only researching political talking points.
@WelI Obviously, because they're hell on earth for people like me who need quiet and don't like people. Can't wait to move out of ours and onto 10+ acres of solitude.
I grew up in a literal village (300 people) and then move to a city of 2 million and sure, it has been fun, but I've learned I'm not a city person.
lol at the snowflakes that got upset about my post because I hate the 'burbs. it was an opinion. I'm allowed to hate them and want them to cease to exist.
Another thing, suburbs need cities to exist. That's where all the jobs are for the burbanites to get their money. You can't have one without the other. Screw them both, I'm going to go hermit in the woods.
F*ck your suburbs full of Karens and HOAs.
@FoodEatsI, saying that something that is expensive is “racist” is the most racist thing you can say. Saying someone can’t buy something that is expensive because they are a minority is racist. Ferrari’s are expensive to buy, the car company is not racist, espresso machines are expensive, that doesn’t make the company’s that make then racist. Redlining did exist, and likely still exists incidentally due to some bias, but it doesn’t anymore on an institutional level. Not to mention renting out property, particularly in a big city, is usually way more expensive in the long run, and proper budgeting and saving to buy a home will always save a family money in the long run and not only that it usually helps them make money in the long run because now they own the asset of a home which will usually gain equity. Stop calling a thing racist because it used to be 60 years ago, its not anymore and we have many checks and balances against it nowadays
@LyricTerror, you didn’t say you didn’t like the burbs, you said get rid of them, which is what people have a problem with. Everyone is allowed to have a personal opinion as long as it doesn’t affect others with a different opinion to yourself
@The nOly One, I said end suburbs. That doesn't mean to tear down the hellscapes of suburbs that already exist. That would be such a waste of materials, even with the fact that most suburban houses are built cheaply.
Just simply stop building them. Enough exist. revamp the ones with better quality homes and buildings in the least. Allow little shops to exist within them so you don't have to drive everywhere. Have better community spaces in them, like community farms. These things can happen and not ruin your precious suburbs.
@thatoneguymaybe, suburbs are decent money back if you upgrade and maintain your home like we have, but I tell people to buy land somewhere. Land is money. I regret not following my dad's footsteps of buying property around Michigan. My parents sold it for a lot and now my mom's living her last years in the comfort of Florida without having to worry about bills. Now that's living.
@LyricTerror, I agree, land is money. I sold my last house a few months ago, and made money on it, we got a bit more property, but I couldn't get all the land I wanted because of our destroyed economy. That combined with me being on the young side.
I want 10+ acres, maybe I'll get it one day, if we don't turn to full on Socialism before that..
@LyricTerror, I think suburbs are mostly fine, unless there is an HOA, they can screw themselves.
I live in the country now, but the burbs are fine, they don't need cities either, unless they have nothing in them.
The area I moved from, the people from the city got jobs in the suburbs quite a bit, so there goes that theory...
@The Despondent, Looking up the history of it, and then learning about what has changed will give you perspective on the way housing/zoning isn't racist today.
Unless you count minorities getting special treatment. Then I'll agree it's racist.
You are stuck in the past, current day doesn't have the same problems, and people can choose to get out of their situation, no matter what color their skin may be.
More than a generation has passed since then, and it's simple to get out of the bad situations with a bit of self discipline.
@FoodEatsI, youre correct and yet nobody wants to accept that the US has racist rules
@thatoneguymaybe, your exception doesn't negate the widely known facts that suburbs and cities are dependent on each other. The fact that your city depends on the suburbs proves they're co-dependent. These California suburbs and cities are similar.
@thatoneguymaybe, yeah it started racist for sure, but my suburb is mostly Filipino-American and, if you know anything about them, even other Asians are racist against them. It's pretty depressing.
@thatoneguymaybe, I figure at least 10 acres is a good chunk. We were hoping in Idaho, but may happen in Maine.
@LyricTerror, I disagree, suburbs are more easily independent than cities, and maybe I'm missing the data, but to my knowledge a lot of suburbs don't need the cities.
Cities are not needed at all, but they are here, and have been ingrained already.
California is already a messed up state, so using them as an example, or comparison of anything other than a disaster zone is pointless.
@thatoneguymaybe, the data that was shared to me is that it was known that many suburbs relied on city money to exist (taxes, people's income from working in cities and then coming back to "bedroom communities" or whatever the term is for what I'm currently living in). I'll be fair and honest, that could definitely have changed since I last checked and I'll refresh and update my facts behind it. Thank you, and also thanks for being awesome to debate this with.
California has its upsides and downsides, yes lol, but the food is awesome and the whether is worth dealing with people. Our family is just done with city life and we'll go live in the snow again if that's what it takes for space and quiet. Our daughter has severe sensitivity to sounds and she's begged to live in Michigan in the woods.
@LyricTerror, Hmm, well maybe it was once that way, or maybe you define suburbs a bit differently, but they don't rely on cities for taxes, since each township/county has its own taxes, and incomes.
Obviously there can be a mix if people go to and from each, but I would wager that they would be fine without it. In my area, the towns do quite fine on their own, and their local economy is strong, and we don't have many big chains here.
But it's possible that it's the situation we are in, I would just think we are better off without the cities, and better with the suburbs and country.
You are welcome, thanks for keeping this cool as well. Always refreshing to have respectful conversations. Not very common here.
Sorry to hear about your daughter, my wife has a lot of sensitivities, so I can relate.
P.S. Don't go to Michigan, it's going downhill fast, I have family there, but it's not worth it!
@thatoneguymaybe, yeah I'm from Cheboygan County area and my husband is from Charlevoix. Both beautiful areas but being taken over by the boomers and people who want to pretend to play country living while complaining there's not a Starbucks everywhere.
@LyricTerror, Yeah, suburbs in California are different from suburbs elsewhere, especially the East Coast.
@LyricTerror, this! My grandparents bought 4 acres for 10k like 50 years ago and now its worth 50-60 times that now that there are neighborhoods and schools within walking distance of each other. Just because there isnt anything there now doesnt mean it anything hardly. Land will usually only accrue value if you can drive 20 minutes and be somewhere relevant.
@HaloFox, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Land is money. No matter where. That same thing was with my dad, even a sliver of property up in the UP of Michigan. $3k dollars turned to $36k back in the end run. And trust me that land is literally in the middle of nowhere. I'll take land over the suburbs. My parents paid $15k for 40 acres of land. built a house. ended up selling it all for over $300k.
@thatoneguymaybe, nothing wrong with adding more democracy by advocating for socialist policies. :)
Bro with cars you have to pay insurance, gas, and pay to maintain it. Screw that I wanna be able to afford name-brand food. I’m moving to a city with a subway the first chance I get. I take the bus to work half the time anyways.
@dandyhandy, for some people car ownership is up to 39% of their income. Absolutely insane.
Ah humans , reading the above. I do believe i am cursed with reconizing reason. Cant wait till yall go extinct.