I never liked this argument because no one can have a say because we wouldn’t exist to have an opinion on the matter on anything. Had our parents decided to have sex a day before or after then we that particular individual would not have been conceived and someone else would have.
@megamanx181x, in my case I can absolutely make the argument. My parents tried unsuccessfully for years to have a kid, then in desperation paid tens of thousands of dollars to pay a surrogate to have me. They made someone else carry and suffer out of their selfishness to have a kid, and I will never forgive them for it.
@Bobaganusche88, So does that mean you are not living a happy life?
@Bobaganusche88, They paid someone for a service. How is that a problem?
@Weird Porn Stash, Hence my question. He should be feeling very grateful if he was living a happy life. If he is and is still upset with his parents, I really like to know why
@dafaqisthis, indeed. Clearly they were wanted, other willing people benefitted from the situation, and carrying a child full term is a sociable and rewarding experience. Childbirth itself is a magical thing, even if you don't keep it at the end.. sad to see it wasn't the dream scenario that was intended by all
@TheMightyImp, possibly because he feels/felt like a service
@Weird Porn Stash, I think it's a joke seeing as its this app and that's a common phrase. Kinda like I never wanted to be born.
Milennials: "Oh good, people do know the difference."
If its not your body directly affected then shut up, you get no opinion
I was gonna be aborted. And im not against abortion. You humans think life is precious but you are hippocrates.
@Cuactemoc4919, I wish I was hippocrates, then I would have some killer insights. But since you meant hypocrite, I can see most people have conflicting opinions. But it’s not as simple as “life is precious so abortion should be denied.” That type of linear thinking rarely gets you the right answer
@dafaqisthis, i concur. Everything is a dam it i forgot the wording. Example laws are to general although everything is a case by case bases. Thats it. Everything is a case by case basis. Life is hard to generalize. to many variables
Haha watching the Americans go nuts in this thread is making me want popcorn
You humans live in a sugar coated world. Shyt is still shyt even if sugar coated.
That truly is the ultimate counter argument, and I think it says a lot about the hopelessness that has become so prevalent these days.
@Ser Waffle Knight, I dont think it's a good counter argument. That's saying that instead of trying to do anything to make a difference, for whatever they may believe, that they would rather not even have the possibility. We would not be here today if humans relied on this mindset in the past. The lightbulb? So many attempts didnt work so he should have just given up? Humans didnt learn how to farm overnight, it took generations. Societies collapsed but people still fought on. Life is hard, always has been, and always will be. Will I make a huge difference to the grand scheme? Probably not, but I will probably make a difference to someone out there.
@TheGoogler, I didn't say it was a positive thing or agree with the negativity. All I'm saying is that abortions are helpful to parents who aren't prepared or wanting to have children, and prevents life before it has the chance to be sentient and miserable.
We absolutely should be attempting for fix our problems, but if more people were better prepared before having children it would be a step in the right direction.
Looking at you, 12 U.S states that just banned abortion.
@Ser Waffle Knight, Clinton once said about abortion: it should be available, safe and rarely used
@Ser Waffle Knight, or how about the simplest solution of all. Stop having sex before marriage or you're ready? It really is that simple. People just want an excuse to live their life with no consequences. How about instead of planned parenthood and taking our tax money to that dumpster fire we actually have classes that teach waiting until the right time instead of just throwing condoms at kids and saying have fun and be safe I guess. If you dont believe me go to a public schools sex ed seminar. Also people are really in denial about how abortion even originated. It was to cut down on the African American population.
@Ser Waffle Knight, my problem is that people rather choose an abortion over just putting it up for adoption. No one is making you raise the kid and there are many out there that would love to adopt. Abortions really undermine the idea and value of life just because people don't want to live with the consequence of their actions.
In summary: yes, better preparing people for having kids is good, but abortion is not a solution if their not.
@Ser Waffle Knight, or maybe if you don't want to have a kid, use the like dozen types of contraceptives out there. The childs life shouldn't be a choice to begin with since it is so easy to not get pregnant these days. I would rather have a child be born and put into the adoption system than the child be executed for the parents convenience, which 99% of abortions are for convenience.
@Scarlet Pumpernickel, “why don’t you just put the kid up for adoption?” has always bugged me as a counter-argument for abortion. For one thing, pregnancy is physically and financially taxing. Even a best-case scenario- one where you have zero complications and are able to work right up until delivery- still involves weeks of recovery after birth before you can go back to work. In the US, that’s unpaid leave. If you DO have complications during pregnancy, that can add weeks of extra bed rest before AND after birth, plus expensive tests and extra appointments with your doctors. This isn’t even getting into how much it sucks balls to have something stealing nutrients from you and jostling your bladder and stomach 24/7. I’ve worked in an OB/GYN, and every woman in their third trimester was exhausted and a little bit miserable regardless of how happy they were to be having a baby. Pregnancy is an acute medical condition.
@Scarlet Pumpernickel, the problem then stands in the issues of the child going into a system that is often underfunded and can leave kids with miserable childhoods, possibly setting them up for failure later in life. Life is a sacred thing, but in a sense isn't it kinda selfish to bring a kid into an already harsh and overcrowded world and immediately putting the odds against them for the sake of our own consciousness? Its important to look at effects that a belief or decision will have on the next step
@Kyroll, in summary, I don’t think it’s fair to say all women with an unwanted pregnancy should just suck it up for nine months and put the kid up for adoption. Especially considering the low level of support pregnant women are offered in the US (no universal healthcare, no paid maternity leave), and the fact we have the HIGHEST maternal mortality rate of any developed nation- in fact, live delivery is about nine times more likely to kill a pregnant woman than any form of induced abortion (per the CDC). Obviously, it is better to prevent unwanted pregnancies entirely by destigmatizing birth control and ensuring everybody who doesn’t want to be pregnant has education about and access to birth control. What leaves a bad taste in my mouth about many so-called pro-lifers is their singleminded focus on criminalizing abortion instead of addressing the factors that cause unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
@Kyroll, If you see pregnancy that way, then the only logical conclusion is to never have sex if you don't want a kid. I don't think people are entitled to doing it if they aren't willing to face the possibility of pregnancy through to the end.
@tmo0792, there it is. the stupidest fvcking thing ill read today. thanks for getting that out of the way for me
@tmo0792, because just telling kids not to have sex isnt an effective for of birth control. I've gone through public school and never had condoms thrown at me but I have been told that they are available at planned parenthood for free so you can practice safe sex. Sex isnt about just making babies at least not anymore. The right time is different for everyone and it doesnt mean you shouldn't wear a condom. It's been proven that teaching abstinence has actually resulted in a higher abortion rate and an increase in illegal abortions that lead to way more health risks to the mother.
What should happen is higher funding towards teaching safe sex practices as well as establishing a universal curriculum that gets taught to students in either 6th grade or 8th grade so middle school. Many programs start in 5th grade but most extensive ones occur later and are often repeated in highschool freshman year.
@owanobi, You... Are you serious? Or just... Chronically naive and ignorant? You realize that anything short of outright chemical sterilization can still result in a pregnancy right? I am living proof of this. My parents were on and actively using every contraceptive they possibly could. And yet? Here I am. My old Math teacher actually did use various shots, chemical ejections, condoms, morning after pills AND STILL had 4 children before saying f it and getting her tubes tied. So... Yea... You are an idiot.
@LaDarkProphet, ah yes, I too love to use extremely anecdotal information to prove my point. The fact is that these methods are 99.9% effective if used correctly. This does not mean that weird things can't happen but your anecdotal evidence that is not provable does nothing for me and calling me an idiot for telling people to practice safe sex is not going to help the situation. You are basically telling people "fvck contraceptives because they aren't 100% effective and just get an abortion instead." your math teacher is also very open about their sex life.
@owanobi, seriously I dont know many math teachers that are that open about that stuff except my mom who is a math teacher for highschool haha.
@Runnin with scissors, yea, I mean some people are just naturally open about that kinda stuff but that's one awkward conversation. "yea we used every contraceptive in the book and we still had enough sex to have 4 kids. Totally an accident though, even after the second."
@owanobi, Ok. Your almost there. Keep focusing on the math. If say.... roughly 1 million people all have safe sex and contraceptives are only 99% effective, how many unwanted and unplanned pregnancies is that? And nice strawman.
I never once said that contraceptives and safe sex were pointless/useless. What you did there? Was a strawman. All i did was point out that you can practice all the safe sex in the world you want, and you should definitely do that, sometimes accidents happen. And for the record? Thats not just anecdotal evidence. Just google how often contraceptives fail.
If you practice safe responsible sex and you still accidentally get pregnant then an abortion should be a last, but available resort. And saying you would rather see a child born into the adoption/foster care system can only come from someone extraordinarily ignorant on how the adoption/foster care system works in the U.S. I would not wish that hell on my worst enemy.
@owanobi, Again. Just goggle the amount of abuse that runs through the U.S adoption/foster care system. Dont even research it that throughly. Just a skim should be enough to tell you that you should maybe reconsider that statement. And for the record? An abortion is not an "execution". Thats trying to emotionally manipulate the conversation using loaded language.
So. For the record. Yes. P.S.A: Please practice safe, responsible sex at all times. And exercise your legal right to an abortion responsibly. 👍
@Runnin with scissors, Well i was actually out of school at the time when i heard the explanation. Her husband was a mentor of mine and i was over at their house pretty often. Honestly should have just said my friends wife but she was technically my math teacher 🤷♂️
@LaDarkProphet, an abortion is an execution, you are killing a potential child against it's will. And before you say "An unborn fetus is a bunch of cells" brand new DNA is created AT conception and if you destroy that, you are essentially killing a potentially valid child. I understand I used a Strawman. You have to realize that while yes all of them are not 100% effective, some like shots are 99.7-98% effective and if you combine that with condoms for good measure the chance is basically 0. Also 99℅ of people will get an abortion out of convenience. Not to mention only 1/3rd of people actually uses condoms in the first place just based on CDC statistics. I also understand the foster care system really sucks and needs some crazy reforms but it is still better than just killing the child because you didn't want to take it to term. The only reason I see abortion a valid option is for people who were rape or incest victims, as that makes the most sense.
@owanobi, you lost me on that last bit. I think abortion should be allowed whenever but with increasing costs to the couple. Like first abortion is completely covered, #2 is only 60% covered because your dumbass didnt learn to use protection, and #3 is only 10% covered but you can still get one it's just now costing you over $10000. Low income would suffer but it would be a good deterrent and incentivize safe sex practice. If a person isn't ready to have a child often times the kid will suffer and not have a good life and it can ruin the parents life as well. If someone has a kid when they are ready and willing kids usually turn out better.
Here’s my opinion on this. I’m very pro killing babies, but really against giving women choices