How Christianity spread
God help you if you mention the muslim conquests to someone who believes this.
@Kliment Voroshilov, can we just agree that people are fallible and no one lives up to what they preach?
@Obi Kenobi, Absolutely, which is part of the reason I hate the modern application of hypocrisy. To have standards and not live up to them all the time is part of being fallible.
You are being converted; please stop resisting.
Do you believe in Christianity?
*loading crossbow* shame
When you’re so jealous of the Pagans worshipping Saturn for their bountiful harvest that you change Jesus’ birthday to the same fvcking spot on the calander
@TriangleTesticles, you mean roman Catholics, Christian's didnt do that.
@phalcon , Please elaborate on why Catholics aren’t Christians
@phalcon , excluding Catholics from Christians is like saying beef is not meat, only pork, poultry, venison and fish are meat.
@occasionalmutant, do you know the origins of Catholicism? Cause if you did you would understand.
Let's go back to the 300s. Emperor Constantine is in charge, he sees Christian and pagan factions ruining hes control over people.
So he comes up with a creative solution, he takes the traditions of both Faith's, blends then together and creates a new state sponsored religion.
There for example is seen in how he took the winter solstice celebrations, and combined them with the birth account of jesus and made a new holiday.
This also introduced things like praying to saints and objects like rosaries and such. All of these practices where forbidden by the bible and the church founders, but were permissible in pagan customs. So again combination of the two.
Sure on could argue Christian flavors were a bigger part of this new faith, but the pagan customs where enough to make this new religion no longer christian as it introduced ideas that are not compatable with the christian faith.
@TriangleTesticles, see my answer to that other guy above.
@occasionalmutant, saying Christian's when you really mean Catholics is like saying meat is dry and disgusting and I never eat it at Thanksgiving when you mean turkey
@phalcon , you do realize that Catholics don’t worship saints or rosaries right? It doesn’t even make sense because saints literally become saints by following Christ and doing his work near perfectly on earth. So then why would someone worship a person who worshipped something else? If they wanted to follow in the footsteps of that person then they would worship Christ.
@Awc123awc, but they do worship them. Many Catholics have more pictures of saints, and pray to them all the time. They often do that more than Jesus at times. They take around body parts and artifacts that they thjnk have special powers...
All of that biblically is reserved for God only.
And no you don't become a saint by following Christ and doing his work near perfectly on earth.
Biblically saints are just another name for followers of Christ. Interchangeable with Christian.
See Romans 15:25.. But now I go into Jerusalem to minister to the saints...
Biblically there is no special class of people know as saints.
Just one more example of how Roman Catholisim rejects the bibles teachings and uses their own.
Thus full circle, it's not Christianity but it's own unique faith.
@phalcon , You do realize that you are either misinformed about Catholic history, or cherry picking facts to justify your viewpoint.
Christianity started with the apostles, and has had various schisms to create the four main branches: Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant. In the post-apostate era, an early dispute concerned whether Jesus was completely human and non-divine (Arianism), or divine. Constantine convened the Council of Nicea to create the Nicene Creed to resolve this dispute. The Nicene Creed is used by all the major sects, not just Catholicism.
Constantine died in 337 AD, with christianity as the only sect of this faith. De fide catholica was a 380 AD edict establishing Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire, with catholic as an adjective meaning universal. First major schism in christianity was the Great Schism of 1054, creating for the first time the Roman Catholic church in Rome, and the Eastern Orthodox church in Constant
@occasionalmutant, inople. Next major schism was the 16th century Protestant Reformation, which led to Prtotestand Anglican faiths, using some of the arguments you put forward.
The protestant attitude that Catholicism is somehow non-christian is nonsensical, at best.
@occasionalmutant, well your forgot the branch that where just simply Christian and who rejected all that other stuff and who simply believed in the scriptures.
And I wouldn't exactly call them a branch, rather the root.
And this group has existed throughout history alongside these other groups.
Unfortunately these other groups have diverted so off the original path they can no longer be considered Christianity but their own faiths.
Like its obvious to see when you compare what they believe, and what the Bible teaches are most often in conflict.
How do you know they aren't Christian? When in conflict with scripture they value their traditions over scripture.
Christianity takes scripture as supreme doctrine or all things of faith.
@occasionalmutant, to your se one post..
But it's not Christianity. It's a pagan-Christian religion. It rejects scripture and values its own traditions supirior to the Bible.
How can something that rejects the foundation be consider part of it?
@phalcon , we do not worship saints. And as far as pictures go, most people have more pictures of family members on their house than Jesus. We don’t pray to saints we ask saints to pray for us since they are in heaven their prayers are far more perfect than ours can ever be. Jesus works through his children as well. There is an entire process for how people become saints. The Bible is great but it’s not everything, the more the faith is studied and and prayed about, the more God reveals to us about ourselves, the world around us, and the faith itself. To just look at the Bible would neglect 2000 years of study of the faith and other moments where God has spoken to us. And Christians are followers of Christ, we follow Christ and the words he left for us.
@Awc123awc, your just playing word games now...
How do you ask them to pray for you? You pray to them...
Come on don't be dishonest.
Also biblically there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus...
Also how to pray? Jesus said our father who art in heaven...
Also praying to saints give them attributes that only God has.. Such as being omnicient, and omnipresent.
At any given time the common saints must have multiple people praying to them... Unless they are God, they cannot hear everyone's at the same time...
It's not just illogical, it's also not biblical.
@Awc123awc, also that's exactly my point... "the bible is, great but it's not everything"....
The Bible itself literally claims its everything.
This is why groups such as Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian.
They reject the foundation of the Christian faith as being all sufficient, and they come up with their own scripture and traditions that they consider supirior to what Christianity teaches.
@phalcon , I’m sorry you’re unable to understand, perhaps it’s because the Bible isn’t the end all be all of faith, and I’m also sorry if you literally only pray the our father. Your faith sounds so impersonal I truly am sorry for you. There’s so much more to faith than the Bible and I have tried to explain that but you can’t understand because you won’t look up from the Bible, it sounds to me like you’ve made the Bible your god
@Awc123awc, in the beginning was the word, and the word was eith go, and the word was god.... john 1:1.... the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the father full of grace and truth... john 1:14...
The word is god... jesus is the word....every word of scripture is god, when you read the word, you are reading god himself.
So ya, I'm going to take everything in the word to be correct over any word of man. The bible is the end all and be all of thectewchings of thecchrietian faith.
Anything beyond that is no longer christianity, but some other religion. The bible itself testifies to this.
*Abrahamic religions in general
@Donquixote Corazon , not really, Islam isnt abrahamic, its pagan moon god stuff mixed with some old testament stuff.
And actual christianity is actually judiasim fulfilled,
And this faith hasn't been violent towars the world, but rather it's been the most persecuted faith on the planet.
So persecuted in fact that people who even prentended to be part of that faith have persecuted the true followers as well.
Look no further than jesus and the apostles. All but like 1 or 2 where killed for their faith. None of them ever spread their faith orctaught to spread it eith violence, the very scriptures that are written condemned spreading christianity by forces.
It's clear the faith has been hijacked by people who dodnt even follow what they say they do.
Why does everyone have to push their imaginary friend onto other people ?
So many confuse roman catholisim with christianity. Not the same faith.
@phalcon , Catholics are the OG Christians, and still very much so considered Christians today
@Awc123awc, well not actually the og Christian's were much nicer but they got uh... eradicated. Take a guess who did that.
@Awc123awc, what's og?
@Hagasay, does og mean original? If so, then the answer to your point would be Roman Catholics eradicated the original Christian's. It's well know they persecuted them.
But in all fairness, they didnt entirely eradicate Christian's, they tried but failed. Some small groups lives on up until the reformation period too.
@phalcon , that is actually false, Protestant Christian religions broke off from Catholicism which was just called Christianity before the schism, they hold the basis for all Christian beliefs that have been changed over the years by people splitting off. It was the church founded by Christ himself when he passed it off to Peter to be the first pope
@Awc123awc, no such thing as a pope in the bible.
The Bible also says "call no one father, for your father is in heaven".
And there were groups that existed long before Rome did, and parallel to the existence of rome as well.
The protestants where not the first people to have the views that, they had.
Also I think your confusing the reformation with the schism. The schism was an, event in the 1000s between Rome and eastern orthodox groups.
The reformation was like 500 years after that. Early 1500 to 1650s.
If you don't know a, simple fact like that I'm not sure how well I trust your theology on the matter...
@phalcon , my apologies for not using the picture perfect precise wordings but the “reformations” are also schisms that had people who thought that they themselves knew better than God and broke apart from the faith. And there has to be leadership in the church or no statutes of belief can be established or make decisions about what we truly believe or not, Christ said to peter, “you are my rock upon which I will build my church” making him the leader of the church, or as we call him and his successors now, the pope. And insult me all you want but just because I fail to cite things perfectly doesn’t mean I don’t have knowledge of what I’m talking about, it’s better to understand concepts than the table of contents
@Awc123awc, sorry but you can't get the doctrine of a pope from one verse.
Especially when other verses contradict that.
Like seriously there's entire passages in timmoty that address qualifications of elders and bishops and all that.
Yet the bible is silent on a papacy.
And its not exactly silent either... Pope... Means father...
And the bible says to call no one father...
How do atheists spread their ideals? Hmmm...looks up Stalin, Lenin, Ghengis Kahn,....oh. I should shut up says the ignorant.
Incorrect, that was the Catholics, and they spread Catholicism.
@Thatoneguymayknow, you do realize that Catholicism is a part of Christianity right? And before the schisms they were just known as Christians
@Awc123awc, It isn't. They just identify with part of Christianity. But whether they do, or don't. They are separate, for a reason. They have different beliefs. So, I fail to see your point.
Everyone knows things used to suck in this way, but tbh that was when a world cult superpower ran things and all the other christians didn't really get a vote.
@TomPholio, the other sects of Christianity didn’t exist at that time
@Awc123awc, there have always been a variety of Christian belief systems, the majority of the New Testament is Paul correcting or encouraging various aspects of the different regional churches beliefs and understanding of Scripture.
The same is true of all the major (and minor) religions.