Tips are a stupid practice, and we should stop letting businesses factor them into their employee's wages. I'm already paying you for food, i shouldn't also have to bribe your staff to get decent service.
@Doctor Yak, exactly
@Doctor Yak, couldn’t agree more
@Doctor Yak, what he said
@Doctor Yak, as a bartender in a restaurant of 6 years that completely relies on tips to pay my bills, I completely agree. Though it’ll have to be done through lawmakers and business owners. People who use this as an excuse to not tip are stupid especially as this is culturally expected in several regions and it’ll only affect the server as anyone higher up won’t care or see the server as doing a bad job
@The Cossack, here would be a question as a bartender. Did you ever feel the desire to go above and beyond to get a better tip?
I know tipping culture is different in different places. My understanding is in the south. Down here we have cheaper homes, poorer neighborhoods, and a tipping culture. Mostly because of a blue collar root that's sympathetic to hard work.
I personally try to tip 25-30% since I know it'll help. But then again, I don't go out drinking, so I may not know the bar seen.
I know in the south, we have a floor and tips. If the tips don't cover minimum wage, the boss pays out the rest. I've found this to be best, since it allows low risk hiring for a transitory job.
In an inverse, would you be satisfied with minimum wage and zero tips?
What's your thoughts?
@Doctor Yak, a waiter is a luxury. A restaurant doesn't need waiters. If the business has to start paying, even, minimum wage for this work. They'd go under.
Then, there's another entry level job that's destroyed.
Add onto that an open southern boarder, then where would lower and lower middle class people would go?
Labor jobs are being made under the table, restaurants would lose waiters, big chains are making kiosks to take orders and of course self check outs.
Stuff them into "free college?" They been though a free 12 year "free school" what makes another 4 years any different?
Will we go full venezuela and give people government jobs?
Just digging and filling holes?
@The Cossack, that’s why I tip 30% - 50% in cash, even though I use my card to pay for the meal
@That one lurker, it’ll depend on the customer and the restaurants staffing for the day. If I get into good conversations with someone then I’ll try to start making recommendations and try to enjoy talking with them for potentially a good tip or just simply because it’s a short distraction from work. Lately like everywhere else it seems the restaurant I bartend at simply doesn’t have the staff so most of the time I’m just reduced to quick check ups then I have to ignore my guests to handle drink orders from servers so anytime there’s one above the standard 20% is much appreciated. As far as minimum wage I think it’ll have to be slightly above for the none stop business restaurant I work at goes through form open to close (especially running with the same 2 bartenders covering the 5 bar shifts and only 3 servers covering the 12 server shifts required even on weekends)
@That one lurker, as stated that slight appreciation on a good tip really does help refocus me at that moment while a ridiculously good tip from someone I barely checked on does give me guilt that I could’ve done way more if I could only get the time. I do believe tips should either go completely still or at the very least reduce the reliance on them like upping hourly and making 5-10% an expected instead of raising that expected from the 15 I first started at to the 20% it is now
@Hot Coffee, it is much appreciated and even I do that if I find myself going out somewhere but it’s not necessary like if I find myself slammed and barely even refill or make you a new drink (or just remove the cap from a beer bottle and hand it to ya) I completely understand if 20% is the highest. I will try to remember your face to definitely make up for it should you come around again because otherwise there’ll be slight guilt from not trying to earn it if I get pulled away for a significant amount of time trying to catch up on server drink orders or resupplying the bar to get ready for another rush
@The Cossack, so, from what you're describing, the complaints on the matter is a double edge sword with your job on the line.
Let me explain.
You'd like a more consistent flow of income.
You try to explain this plight so people understand.
Some people start tipping better, but now they know how bad the job can be.
Less people start working these jobs, more people are stacked on your plate, the less tips you get.
The more you complain.
But since this cycle is now a meme, there's no way to change the narrative.
Putting more strain on your job for less and less return.
Inversely, the people that share your sympathies, but have no work experience in the field, try to increase minimum wage laws.
Shutting out more staff and piling more on those left behind.
@That one lurker, more or less…the work complaints were all revolving around the current issues of everywhere not having the staff, more than likely just pure venting unfortunately I crammed in. Back to the tip system the problem is the absolute reliance on every customer tipping as the business is only paying the employee around $5/hour (usually around here certain places, some not even) needs to be stomped out and bring tips to more of an extra incentive customers can do optionally. As stated when I first started, tipping was expected at 15% then as minimum wage went up the expected went to 20% (not purely the reason) instead of businesses having to fork more per hour for their own employees. Been out of country to places where tips are not expected while staff is paid a livable wage directly by the place of business and it’s not all that different experience wise.
@That one lurker, if the tip system is so important to restaurants to keep around then maybe the 5-10%. Something with small boosts but nothing crippling if not paid and as a final additional point maybe certain servers won’t profile and prioritize certain customers assuming what they’ll tip given it’s reliance for their income and bring it back to more consistent service, unless the customer’s just being unpleasant to be around. There’s a few of those servers in every restaurant and bar I’ve worked and is an understandable line of thought given the reliance
@The Cossack, the only other place I've been to is Italy. I was around 13 and to stupid to think of such solutions, and since I haven't looked abroad to their solutions, I'm stuck at an impass.
Yet. The things that I do know. Italy had both strong tourism and cooking culture. Where I stayed, I learned, that children went to school between the hours of 7-11 then back 2-5. Since the idea was for the kids to eat at home and have enough time to get back.
Many restaurants was to small to hire additional staff, and those that was large tourist traps had long lines.
So, I may not have had the foresight, and maybe Italy is a bad example.
As for your words, either 4am I'd the wrong time to read words or I'm not sure what you mean by 5-10%. Mind explaining?
@That one lurker, 5-10% tip if the tip system needs to exist then that’ll be the new expected amount nothing big like 20%. Restaurants have to pay a bigger hourly or closer to something livable making ridiculous slow days or a table sitting there 4 hours after paying the bill (true story we timed them) a hell of a lot less painful
@That one lurker, mind you none of this is because I’m not making enough or I’m not getting tipped, compared to a friend who’s in an hourly job plus overtime I made his monthly income on a single Friday-Sunday stretch then whatever for the rest of my month. Just looking at how the system is it’s really strange how it functions
@The Cossack, you may not know this, the meme for getting rid of the tipping system was started by lazy/antisocial Marxist who was wanting equity instead of equality.
People that do less then the bare minimum or even less, i.e. the servers the system is designed to weed out.
Think of evolution, if the losers was able to comment on the changes.
"Oh, what do you mean that genetically formed necrosis is un attractive?"
"Man, making spears is too hard, why not be a bunch of berry pickers. Nomadic? F@ck that, moving a tent is hard work. If we need berry's we'll walk out to find them and bring them back."
These people are complaining about being the genetic dead in on a living body.
I'd hate to impune on Doctor Yaks honor, but I'd bet he has no skin in the game. Only repeating points fed to him. Trying to remove your ability to get more pay for extra effort. To defend the ego of fools who half @ss their jobs.
@Doctor Yak, there are restaurants that do that, they just increased the price of everything on the menu by about 20% to cover the cost of that.
@That one lurker, idk for sure what you mean by skin in the game, but I'm assuming you mean i don't work in the service industry, which is irrelevant, because I'm coming at it purely from a customer perspective, and it's annoying to have to pay an extra cost on top of that of my meal. I tip when i go out, but i don't like that it's expected. It should be a reward for service well provided. I don't want to pay your employee's wages with a tip, i want it to be a gift.
@Doctor Yak, okey, let's say your meal is 15-18 dollars, 20% you're tipping in the ball park of 3.50-3.80, but let's say 4$ for simplicity.
Would you rather pay 22-25$ for a meal?
Since you'd also be paying for those that don't leave tips as well.
Then ontop of that, the few people that do a good job, would you be willing to give them extra?
Restaurants can keep costs low because of how they provide luxury labor.
As I said, and The Cossack confirmed. Remove the insensitive for a better wage through hard work and the whole system become equitable.
Was you ever introduced to the class grade problem?
In a class room a teacher found a discrepancy in their class. So, to make thing equitable they averaged the grade.
Rewarding the lazy, and punishing the active.
The only way from there to make things work is by force (fascism) or remove the lazy (communism).
Or we can let people work at their own pace, being rewarded by their efforts. (Free market)
@Doctor Yak, don't take this as a hard criticism. I just don't think you thought this outrage through.
@That one lurker, yes, i would rather my food cost more and not have to tip. Then i could tip on top of that if i want to.
@Doctor Yak, then which would you prefer, removing the lazy workers or forcing them to work harder for their wage?
@That one lurker, i don't care. I just don't want to pay the employee's wages, i want the employer to.
@Doctor Yak, that's why I say you have no skin in the game.
You show no care about what happens to the restaurant or the worker. Just a blanket, one all fix for a problem you have.
This is not productive, and your "solution" will lead to honest workers having their labor stolen from them.
@That one lurker, as a customer i have no loyalty to the restaurant or workers beyond what they earn. I shouldn't have to care about whether they succeed or fail, just the quality and value of what they offer me. And if people have to lose their jobs or "have their labor stolen" so i don't have to tip, I'm fine with that.
@Doctor Yak, so, you'd like everyone to suffer for your convenience?
@That one lurker, not everyone would be suffering. Most people would be pretty much unaffected, other than they also wouldn't be required to tip.
Like where i live, tipped wages aren't allowed. Legally every employee gets at least minimum wage, unless they're a private contractor or something. We still tip servers and whatnot, but it isn't to pay the employee's wages, it's to reward for good service.
@Doctor Yak, so, to get this straight. You are able to pay an extra 20% on a bill. Then tip ontop of that.
And you'd like to advact this 20% be put on other people's bills, regardless of their economic status.
What would you think would happen to small town restaurants or even family business restaurants if you remove the bottom third of their customers?
Here, wrote out a long tirade about how my favorite restaurant nearly went under from a 10% increase in their menu. Also, I'll still recommend American Chinese mix restaurant. Having eggrolls and rice next to a flat burger just hit different.
Back on topic.
You said it your self, you don't care if people have jobs as long as the results are satisfactory.
So their is no fact or anecdote I can give you to help focus your knee-jerk opinion.
If this is incorrect, post what part of the world you're talking about. And I'll take a look at these laws.
*leaves behind fake dollar bill with Bible passages*
@megamanx181x, They go straight to hell
@akgaimer, gasp! But that’s better then real money!
@megamanx181x, that gets put into those church donations basket everytime I find them
@megamanx181x, I'll raise you a 3 dollar bill
@The Cossack, uno reverse card
@injit, ooo thanks! Wait a minute…:
Every Sunday at noon, the church crowd comes in, camps out in multiple booths and always stiffs.