It's a bit weird how amongst the MSM, antifa is considered underrepresented, but in discussion boards and comment chains there's barely any mention of how wrong the alt-right are. I don't agree with the arms-race of violence that has become normal amongst both parties, but a lot of people seem to disregard the fact that a lot of the alt-right actively approve of the extermination of non-whites.
@YUNoJump, it's becoming easier to call out those in favor of peace but still use violence to achieve peace than it is to call out those using violence in terms of hatred/bigotry. All in all, they're all just human created concepts, that don't have true, real meaning. To quote Ed: "the machinations of my mind are an enigma"
@YUNoJump, what's to call out? Everyone hates the alt right and they're so small they are irrelevant. Except for one instance in Charlottesville, the alt right has been pretty passive. Contrast that with Anitfa who are making it a regular thing to show up and assault people unprovoked. It's like why do people pay more attention to violent street gangs over a crazy racist grandpa down the street.
@Oujosh29, alt right groups are responsible for the most terrorist actions in the United States in recent times, if you include gun violence motivated by race. They are a small percentage, sure! But they're a growing and active small percentage
@Commander Jammer , seen that being said, but never seen convincing data to support it. The data I have seen groups non-right wingers in with the right wing and ignores left wing motivated attacks. For example, they say Jared Laughner was a right wing terrorist attacker when he was really just crazy (one of the main reasons for the shooting was grammar!) And he was more left wing if you wanted to label him. They also classify the dude who flew his plane into an IRS building as right wing terrorist attack when the pilot was a Democrat who was pissed at the IRS.
@Commander Jammer , the alt right haven't been violent for a long time, they've just turned into a complete joke. Yet people want to pretend they're some big threat for some reason. Probally the overdramatic and sensationalist tendencies of our culture
@Commander Jammer , I think you're using alt right as loosely as antifa uses fascist
@Oujosh29, if you want to see the data, I got mine from the ADL, SPLC, and a criminology journal called Criminology & Public Policy. I did a good amount of research into this topic for my college class, and they're more prevalent than you'd imagine!
@Oujosh29, although I gotta say having a discussion like this in a comment section is a bit difficult, I'd like to talk to you about it more
@Oujosh29, as it turns out the alt right is actually a decent bit larger than Antifa (what with antifa being a reactionary movement rather than its own campaign), what has happened in recent times is that both parties bring weapons and are ready to commit violence at an event, the alt-right say it's to protect their freedom of speech while antifa says it's to protect themselves. Neither side is correct, and the existence of that mentality at events is what causes violence every single time.
@YUNoJump, Well, you've got the "sensible people" who don't feel it necessary to call out "obvious facts," and you've got the alt-right vehemently defending themselves, so that might explain it.
@Commander Jammer , at the end of the day, both groups are sh!t who misrepresent their ideological cousins. Antifa gives a bad name to anyone with socialist ideals and the alt right ruins the reputation of Patriotic conservative groups. So the reason why all of the rallies are turning into sh!tshows is because on one side are hateful idiots and on the other are self righteous morons
@CustardGas , I wouldn't set those two up as equals in violence. Within the 372 extremist kills in the past decade, 74% are right wing extremist, and only 2% are left wing. (Data from Snopes) Not to justify left wing violence, any violence is awful. But the extreme right is FAR more violent.
@Oujosh29, I really do wonder what it's like to live in your world
@YUNoJump, good point. I find the appeal by some to make those far right extremists out to be less threatening than they are to be very concerning. Equating an organized and armed group with the stated goals of killing people based on their ethnicity with one crazy old man yelling at the trees shows a disturbing blindness to reality. Yes I'm talking about @Oujosh29
@Donald Drumpf, pretty nice. Really nice when a Starcraft 2 tournament is on.
@SirLoveday, except, you know, most "alt-right" people are white identitarians and ethnonationalists who don't advocate for genocide at all. I don't agree with them, but they're far from brown shirts marching the street and chanting for ethnic cleansing. It seems to me that the "they're all basically Nazis who want to kill all minorities" crowd are the ones ignorant of reality.
Meanwhile, you have adherents of the most genocidal ideology in history on the streets assaulting people with impunity and you want to pretend that a white identitarian movement that's a small fraction of the size, is mostly peaceful, and is near-universally despised is a greater threat?
@YUNoJump, but when you lump in anyone even slightly conservative with alt-right, you lose all credibility. Antifa literally beat people for coming to the aid of a disabled veteran because they didn't like his politics. Antifa is a terrorist organization. They are looking for a fight, and pretty soon some actual nazis are going to start jumping ugly. This will end VERY badly for everyone
@Commander Jammer , Snopes isn't a reliable source. Let's try this, name 5 right wing terrorist attacks the last couple years. If the definition includes the Charlottesville driver and Dylan roof, then the definition is so broad it would include all the BLM assassinations of cops, the guy who shot up the Republican softball game, and the dozen of incidents in occupy wall street, riots after Trump won, and Antifa beating up anyone they want. Seriously, I keep hearing people saying the extreme right is so violent I would like some examples. I got plenty of examples of the far left being violent, but the far right is mostly abortion stuff from before the 90s
@YUNoJump, you are wrong. Peaceful protests where no weapons are brought - except by Antifa - then it gets violent. Antifa causes the violence. Period.
@Commander Jammer , guy, why the fück would you trust "data from Snopes"? Seriously, they're not going to represent reality as it is. To pretend that they would is either incredibly naive or incredibly dishonest.
@CustardGas , I've never even heard the term alt-right until Antifa started their terrorism. So Antifa has only increased awareness of a marginal group and given them legitimacy.
@YUNoJump, you're totally incorrect. AntiFa is a global organization that was established in the 80's and it's far larger than the "Alt-Right" if you're not just lumping in everyone on the right.
@big freedom, "Alt-Right" usually referred to especially fringe ethnonationalists that wanted forced IQ tests and eugenics before AntiFa started calling everyone it.
They were basically an entirely online movement that took the banner of "Neoreactionary" ("NRx"). They even called their movement "The Dark Enlightenment", if their irrelevancy wasn't already apparent enough.
2012: Michael Page kills 6 people at a Sikh temple
2014: Frazier Glenn Miller kills 3 people in a Jewish neighborhood
2015: Robert Lewis Dear kills 3 at an abortion clinic
2015: Anti-feminist John Russell Houser kills two women at the movies
2017: white supremist Jeremy Joseph Christian kills two men
There are way more examples too!
@Commander Jammer , I count 16 victims.
The Orlando shooting alone killed 49 and wounded 58.
But, please, list those "way more examples".
@Commander Jammer ,
3) crazy dude who was ruled incompetent in court. That's really using a broad definition to call that right wing terrorism.
4) The shooting had nothing to do with politics. A crazy dude shot up a theater then killed himself. The police themselves said they don't know what the motive was.
5) this is a stretch, but I'll call this legit since I consider the cop assainations terrorist attacks from the left.
So that's 3 (maybe) out of 5 in the last 5 years. still not seeing some dangerously violent right wing. will incidents happen, yes, but that's true about any group.
@Oujosh29, these violent groups kill more Americans than Islamic terrorists do, yet we seem to deem them as less dangerous.
@Commander Jammer , keyword is last decade, truth is there were some really violent left wing extremists, it died down for a while, but I would not be surprised if it had a resurgence based on recent events. It takes two to tango and in the end neither side is innocent at the moment. My point is not to defend any side, but simply point out that it's not normal Conservative or socialist leaning people who are the problem but the diehard fanatics assaulting anyone who disagrees
@CustardGas , I can agree with that, I'm just saying in recent times, the alt right has been more violent
@Doctor Krieger, do I really need to provide any more? It's too much effort for something a Google search can come up with, I already did it once
@Doctor Krieger, Also I can't be the only to find having a debate like this tiresome in a comment format, right?
@Commander Jammer , now you're making stuff up. The night club shooting far out stretches violent attacks of the left and right combined. Then include other attacks such as the San Bernindo, Fort Hood, or Boston marathon attacks, its not even close. You provided 3 legit examples. Off the top of my head I can provide more examples of left wing violence, yet it's the right that more dangerous? Ummm,no.
@Commander Jammer , this format is for when people are killing time while doing other stuff. I'm commenting during commercial break watching college football. Go OU! Boomer Sooner!
@Oujosh29, again, that 372 deaths in the US I mentioned earlier includeds Islamic extremists. Alt right extremists did 74%. I'm not making it up to try and be malicious, I'm just telling you what my research into the topic has turned up. Please don't acuse me of lying
@Commander Jammer , and you got it from Snopes. I guarantee you they didn't include any of the cops killed by BLM activists as left wing terrorist attacks, but include the lone wolf shootings of the right like the ones you listed. The things about such studies, they can show whatever they want by messing with the definitions and data.
@Commander Jammer , oujosh is taking the position that those numbers are false because those responsible aren't really right-wingers. Guys like Krieger will just call whatever sources you use bogus. You just can't debate against those kinds of arguments. There's no point
are we going to ignore that one of the "fascist " groups in the meme is kekistan. literally another meme
@Oujosh29, looking at another source, Critical Events in the Life Trajectories of Domestic Extremist White Supremist Groups in the journal of Criminology & Public Policy, since 1990 far right groups alone have killed 275 people. Which is very similar to the the claim of Snopes.
This one isn't a news source, it's a journal article in a criminology journal.
@Blue Shirted Guy, hey, is not fair to say what others are thinking, that's just strawmanning them. But I see what you're saying.
I'm arguing so that people reading it can get a good dose of both when they look at it, so they know that not everyone agrees and the reasons why. Discourse is the only way to a better tomorrow my friend
@Commander Jammer , 275 in 27 years? Even if all 275 really were right wing killings, that's hardly anything in a country as big as the US.
Looking up one of your studies, it's clearly biased. The study doesn't mention (as I predicted) left wing attacks such as the police shootings, and is just absurd with some of the classified "right wing violence" they list Christopher Harper Mercer as a right wing shooter who killed 9, but the dude was a black guy who wanted the fame of being a mass shooter. Studies like these follow the philosophy of "all violence is right wing and left wing violence? What's that?"
@Oujosh29, the article is literally only about white supremists, so that would be why it doesn't mention left wing violence. It's off topic. I don't think it is biased though, they do a pretty good job of explaining their methology in their paper.
@Commander Jammer , objectively false. Islamic terrorist attacks dwarf that of right wing terrorist attacks. The Orlando shooting alone dwarfed that of right wing terrorist incidents in the US last year.
World-wide, we're talking about hundreds of right wing terrorist casualties versus 10's of thousands Islamic terrorist casualties. Last year saw nearly 28,000 dead from Islamic terrorism. They're not even in the same ballpark.
@Commander Jammer , I'm not strawmanning haha. Krieger calls out sources all the time, even when he uses sources like freerepublic.org. Oujosh and I have discussed this issue before. He does think that, which is perfectly fine, but you can't have a meaningful debate with 1 side presenting that argument. There's no way to prove everyone's political affiliation through this app. I'm with you on the benefits of debating for all to see, I'm just saying don't expect to get anywhere
@Blue Shirted Guy, can't have a meaningful argument? How so?
@Blue Shirted Guy, I don't expect to get anywhere either, but thanks for the information
I think I'd be offended if he just took my word though 😆
@Oujosh29, just when it comes to this issue. If you are arguing that most of these terrorists aren't really right-winged, even when all these sources identify them as such, then the only way to argue against that is by going through each individual and presenting evidence of their political affiliation. Doing this before a formal debate setting would make for a very meaningful argument, but you can't just can't do that on this app
@Doctor Krieger, I'm talking domestic not internationally,this is a uniquely American issue.
There's debate into whether or not the Orlando shooting was actually an Islamic attack, as the claims of revenge for ISIS deaths seemed an afterthought to the purpetrator.
The man seemed to be having issues with his sexuality, and exploded one day very similarly to school shooters
@Commander Jammer , bullshìt and bullshìt. Right wing terrorism is an almost entirely Eastern European problem.
Also, there's absolutely no reason to believe that Mateen, a practicing Muslim, was lying when both he and ISIS attributed his motives to that of terrorism. There's no real debate here, there's just people trying to ignore the attack out of intellectual dishonesty.
@Blue Shirted Guy, I've already shown some of the reasons the studies are biased. You can't claim lone wolf attacks by people who are right politically are terrorist attacks then ignore the same on the left. You also can't just pick random acts of violence by white dudes and go "well, we think it counts as right wing". I'm still curios how the study authors decided a black dude wanting to be a mass murder gets lump into right wing extremists. It's perfectly legit to questions sources, espically when it comes to political matters. Studies are usually always biased one way or another.
it also doesn't jive with everything I've seen. a couple legit right wing incidents compared to riots, protests, shootings of republicans and cops? yeah....
@Doctor Krieger, Dude I'm really not trying to bamboozle you or anything. I'm not trying to be malicious. I'm not lying to advance my point. There's no debating with someone who accuses me of maliciously lying.
Please don't be disrespectful to me, as I've tried to not be disrespectful to you
@Oujosh29, oh I'm not calling you out for questioning sources. But when you question every single source saying the same thing, we can't present an opposing argument through this app. Cause we can't use a source. We'd have to go through and research every individual's background and then present our findings. Even if we did all that research, it'd be impossible to present all of it here haha
@Commander Jammer , oh the irony of the "you're being unreasonable!" response to avoid a legitimate argument and drop the conversation...
Don't demand respect from me, by the way, earn it.
@Blue Shirted Guy, did you know that people with blue shirts commit all terrorist attacks? True story.
How'd I do the study you ask? Any killings/attacks done by someone wearing a blue shirt is counted as a terrorist attacks, and anything else is counted as work place violence (fort hood anyone?). It's a legit study, I swear!
@Doctor Krieger, I didn't say you're unreasonable, but now I am because of this statement.
Your opinion from what I can gather is that I'm a lier in saying domestic right wing violence is a bigger issue than domestic Islamic terror. However, when I try to show you why I think that, you say I'm lying again. C'mon man
Anyway, I think this is enough for today, I'm gonna go play Overwatch. Happy Labor Day y'all, and God Bless 'murica
@Commander Jammer , good commenting with you. Good luck in overwatch, and hope to snipe you if you play battlefront
@Oujosh29, again, I'm not calling you out for your thought process. I'm just saying we can't debate against that argument without going case by case and presenting evidence of political viewpoints. Cause if we use a study, you'll just call out the study
@Commander Jammer , happy Labor Day to you as well! Now go heal some Genjis
@Blue Shirted Guy, hooray for the post-truth world, where there's way too many sources of information, real and fake, that people don't bother looking for the real stuff and just let their confirmation bias act as a fact checker. I don't like what this site is saying so It's fake news, these cited sources with evidence are also fake and made up entirely.
@YUNoJump, in multiple comments I spefically said why I had a problem with the studies. No one has explained why I'm wrong about it
@YUNoJump, it's actually depressing haha
@YUNoJump, i definetly cant fnd a debunking of the sh!t they peddle.
@YUNoJump, it's a completely different thing to advocate acts of bigotry and violence than to actually commit acts of bigotry and violence, they have the right to think what they want without persecution but antifa doesn't have the right to assault others without persecution. I'm guessing that's why you hear a lot more about antifa
@Commander Jammer , umm that's pretty facetious...
@Commander Jammer , I've seen that number and it's used extremely loosely, most of those numbers are due to the fact that the assailant was white with a history or connection to a right wing group. Unlike attacks like the Pulse nightclub shooting which had a member declaring that act to ISIS, the Dallas shootings which were done in the name of BLM, the kidnapping and torture of a disabled man for being white, cases of young white women being gangraped by black men for being white, or basically of the violence by members of actual left wing groups at protests. I'm just bringing this up because I feel that the right wing is overrepresented in these statistics and the left wing is underrepresented due to bias and semantics
@Commander Jammer , how many have the left killed? American or otherwise, it's a losing argument no matter what you say
@YUNoJump, it's cooks like you who give these false realities and beliefs to the left, how on earth can you say something so idiotic that the alt right is trying to man hunt non white races, republicans are not the racist party and the left are not the heroes of civil rights, history has proven this much get off your high horse you sad disgrace of a human being
@Whale penis, I think you have the wrong guy friend, I'm not very good in the kitchen.
I doesn't matter if you don't think you're a Nazi. If you March for "free speech" next to dudes carrying Nazi flags, you're complicit. Antifa has got bad members, bad eggs, for sure, but it's a decentralized movement and is therefore not to be condemned as a whole. Anyone carrying a Nazi flag, on the other hand, has pretty clearly stated what he/she thinks.
Why you gotta bring politics to my Funny Pics maan
@UnfunnyDeadMeme, Because sometimes politics is funny maan.
@UnfunnyDeadMeme, because the current political situation is so tense that it will seep into everything. I'm sure there will be a Trump toy figurine for kids soon
@Jdrawer, You're right. Politics are a joke. If they weren't. They'd be more compromising and have primarily of middle ground people in control.
So what's happening here is the normalisation of attacking people who stand up against fascism - anti-fascists (antifa). By labelling the people who allegedly take part in "unprovoked" attacks, you make it acceptable to attack anti-fascists. This itself is absurd. America eventually sided for the anti-fascists at the end of WW2 and now we have people and a president reluctant to condemn fascists and neo Nazis. Sad times
@Unkle77, no dude, Antifa IS fascist. I'm going to assume you're a decent person and just say you should watch a few more videos about what they do and who they really are. You can start with folks like Bearing, Sargon of Akkad, or...lets go with Drunken Uncle, he's pretty funny.
@King Spunkmonkey, I agree that there are militants in all political organisations but it will be dangerous to assume that anyone who marches against neo Nazis or stands up against racism, including the president is an antifa militant. Once you start generalising about anti fascists and painting them with the same brush, the more tolerant we become of intolerance. In Britain, we lived through months of bombing and war so there's zero tolerance towards Nazis and racists. I only wish America would retain the same approach
*a future for kekistani children
*Are you guys with the fascists?*
No we're anti fascist and we'll beat anybody wh...
*This is it*
@Medic135, *are you with the antifa fasists*
no we just believe racists and retards should be called out for corrupti...
*this is the place*
@liberachi , wow just wow, the term is mentally challenged and calling them out is just wrong what did they do to you
@Medic135, excuse me, I don't like it when the connotations of words change over time and don't understand why other people besides me have to have equal rights, WHAT DID I do to you to make you try to sway my terrible, misinformed, 1950's opinions
@liberachi , *are you with the rude cunts?*
No I'm just Liberach..
*This is the place*
@Medic135, I love our role plays
@liberachi , another fun encounter, tomorrow at 4?
@LieRen, why all the downvotes? What is "praise kek?"
@Blue Shirted Guy,
Must be some commies in here
@Blue Shirted Guy, It's coded language for "I think I'm better than anybody who doesn't come from my own insular community." Not to mention it adds nothing to the conversation.
@Blue Shirted Guy, it's a meme to take the piss out of religion (mostly out of Islam). Basically, the whole Pepe and Kekistan thing just exists for the sake of satire.
@Jdrawer, absolutely barbaric takedown good sir
Kek is the best joke
Get political out of funny picks
Remember folks, no matter who you side with, reliable sources are your friend.
Man can't wait to see some memes making fun of the left and not just right. *dies waiting*