You call somebody a monster and evil who is getting little pay and puts their life on the line and the 9/10 who are good are going to say fvck you
@voided sanity, the 1/10 who aren’t good might turn up...if only to beat your ass.
@voided sanity, the good 9/10 totally allow the psycho murderous ones just do whatever they want. Would you back up your coworker if they killed someone? This is why 3 cops are charged with murder right now even though only one put his knee on a mans neck until he died.
@Sluggernot, surely the ‘good 9/10’ are the reason why the other cops were also arrested and investigated?
I mean who do people think arrested them? The civilian law enforcement? The judge and jury? Of course it was the police.
@voided sanity, I'm one of them!
@Sluggernot, he didn't die from the knee. The cop was 100% in the wrong. The knee or lack of air did not kill him.
I'm not sure of your persuasion, but I could take a guess. For George Floyd death, around 30 lives lost by rioters hands alone. Four shooting inside chaz, and many rapes. Not to mention the death tolls from the burst of new covid cases from the mass gatherings.
How many dead does it take to make "psycho murderous" and how do you feel backing up your "coworkers" after they kill people.
@voided sanity, I'd say it's more than 9/10 to be honest
@Captain Magma, I agree but like toothpaste commercials nobody will believe 10 out of 10 doctors endorse it.
@UglyNakedGuy, then thank you for your service. And I hope your town is not getting caught up in all this hate.
@That one lurker, the term going postal comes from somewhere. I don't want to see the version where they are all armed and trained
@Sluggernot, did you know that the majority of sustained use of force complaints in law enforcement are initiated by fellow officers?
@voided sanity, your complaint is valid to a point, but the 9/10 who dont stop the 1/10 are also the problem. As are people who think being a cop means they are special and dont have to answer to the people they serve
People are so fvcking stupid, of course this was gonna happen. "OMG defund the police they're all evil!" *3 mins later* "OMFG WHERE ARE THE POLICE PEOPLE ARE DOING ILLEGAL STUFF"
@Oh so cherry, my thoughts exactly! What you think is going to happen if you remove the train tracks? The train not to derail?
@Oh so cherry, tons of people are quite happy the police aren't answering calls. The police did a protest in NYC for like 3 months. Everyone loved it. It was super chill
@Sluggernot, yeah, the tons of people that are happy about it are the ones committing crimes. $100 says if you asked every non-criminal if they like the police, they say yes. Another $100 says criminals don’t like the police.
@Chief Poundserhard, should cops be able to murder people or not? Straight up
@Sluggernot, depends on what you consider murder, because i feel like you'll give them loose definition.
@Finndogs, shooting an unarmed man in the back, who is running away lets start there. Should you you be arrested and prosecuted for doing that?
@Sluggernot, what did the unarmed man previously do before his back was turned? Was it in the heat of the moment? Can you prove the cop was purposely aiming for the back or simply looking to maim to slow down the individual. After catching the individual, did the officer try to assist the wounded or did he simply cuff them and leave then there. What was the individual suspected of and what was his past? Why were they running? Was their interaction civil before the accused ran away? Etc
A lot of these questions are pretty helpful in determination if this issue is murder, a sad case of manslaughter, or a justified event.
@Sluggernot, ah, I see how this is gonna go. So I’m going to assume you believe MOST (50%) of police shootings are “unjust” or unwarranted.
However, as data shows, that is incorrect. From what I found, 50 males were unarmed and fatally shot in 2019. So while those may be considered “unjust”; and, as @finndogs points out, much is unknown about each situation and why that particular action was taken. To focus on 50 incidences out of some 350+ million police encounters is to knowingly disregard concrete fact. It’s your duty in making a claim as bold as yours to present compelling facts. To simply cite a case wherein an officer just shoots someone fatally in the back, then blanket that to every police officer, is a failure on your part to have a reasonable, cohesive argument.
@Sluggernot, also, I’m going to assume you are speaking about the most recent police shooting of Rayshard Brooks, when you mention “shooting him in the back while he’s running away.” While the loss of life is tragic, you can neither say he was unarmed, nor was lethal force warranted.
You cannot steal the taser off of a police officer and shoot it at him, all while resisting arrest, and not expect there to be more severe consequences. And while the Atlanta DA that is prosecuting the officers may have changed his tune on the lethality of a taser, it stands to reason that if you point and shoot a lethal weapon at a police office, there should be a reasonable expectation that greater force is going to be involved.
@Chief Poundserhard, no. I just want to have police accountable for their bullshjt. They're straight up not. They can literally choke a man to death and not have any repercussions. Talking about new York. Then when something does happen and a policeman is actually charged, the police throw an instant pissy party and a bunch of law cucks back them up over straight up murder. Its bull. The police CAN be held accountable for their actions.
@Sluggernot, so are we going to debate over police choking people out, or are we going to debate over police shooting citizens unjustly? Because one argument is separate from another, but you’ve brought up both occurrences, so I’m not sure what your argument is right now...
I mean, either way, pretending that police shoot people and choke people to death on a regular basis is not factual, and is a foolish way of thinking
@Chief Poundserhard, its too regular and the point is when this does happen its completely swept away. What happened to the police who shot the guy in Miami, laying on the ground with his hands empty and up in the air? Nothing. What happened to the policeman who killed a kid in his own home because he was holding a Wii mote? Nothing. What happened to the swat team that threw a flash bang into a crib almost killing an infant. Nothing. What happened to the policeman who drowned a homeless man and joked about it? Almost nothing. The governor had to press for prosecution and the police tried to strike. Really? Really though. Just 5 random instances from the last decade across the US.
@Sluggernot, you’re looking at outliers and calling them the standard. Looking at a decades worth of records and only finding a few dozen examples out of the millions of cases and calling it the norm isn’t correct. No one is saying that messed up examples don’t happen but we shouldn’t pretend they’re the norm
@Natural Sarcasm , im looking at outliers and saying these actions should be prosecuted. I don't have to pretend all of these actions are ok. You dont have to act like my 5 examples means I must hate all police. All 200 outliers I could come up with go completely unpunished, and that's unacceptable. And for every outlier there's a whole precinct backing them up and not just looking the other way, which is bad enough. They're saying not only can each of these police kill someone but I'll straight up not come to work if you even mention pushing an investigation and literally any scrutiny into anyone's behavior is not tolerated.
Very poor standards. I think we can do better with our treatment of poor LEO behavior.
@Sluggernot, that’s not at all what they’re saying. Right now public backlash at police officers are at an all time high. People screaming in their faces, throwing bricks at them, hitting them and they are being told they can’t defend themselves. It’s easy to understand not going to work and giving up when day in and day out for weeks you wake up knowing you’ll have to face the mob and be told you’re the villain
@Natural Sarcasm , that's a new discussion. From actual violations to riots
Yah SURPRISE people are done with this brutality shjt. Police will be prosecuted for a short while. The public will be placated. A few police will be made examples of. We'll be back to zero accountability for police actions in 2 years tops.
@Sluggernot, well if proper steps are taken then we can improve and reform the police but if things keep progressing the way they are then yes when this calms down there will likely be less accountability for police as there will be a need for more officers after most quit or got fired so they’ll hire anyone and training will be minimal from time restraints to fill the positions. And covering their tracks will likely be the new norm in order to avoid public riots instead of reforming and improving
@Natural Sarcasm , cell phone cameras arent going anywhere. They'd already cover this crap if they could. Stingrays and crap can only do so much. The next incident like this will be live streamed from 3 angles.
@Sluggernot, I’m a little late to the barrage of replies from a while ago.
I think we can all agree that police brutality is abhorrent and should be condemned, and I’d be hard-pressed to find anyone - ESPECIALLY police offers - that would condone this type of behavior. Sure, you could make a partial argument that doing nothing reveals complicity, and to a certain extent I’d agree; but if lives are in danger, or a suspect attempts to harm a police officer or members of the public, it’s the police officer’s duty to eliminate that threat of danger.
That said, I’d agree in prosecuting certain instances, but a lot of these examples are extremely circumstantial. Just as a question, would you accept an acquittal of charges if all cases were prosecuted? Even if the same amount of police officers that were never prosecuted received an acquittal from a judge? Not trying to “come at you” with your questioning, just asking a simple question
@Sluggernot, @Natural Sarcasms, thank you for this debate and keeping it classy. I don’t think either parties have changed minds, but I think this was a peaceful, professional debate.
Until next time...
@Chief Poundserhard, Yo go dude!
Also, I inadvertently ran a red right in front of cop. Cop promptly lit me up and came up and said, "What the heck!? Why'd you run the red?" I just replied, "Thought it was green. Idk.". He said, "Oh, well, green arrow but not for you. I'm only pulling you over since if I didn't every would have been like 'Yo what up with the police.'"
And he let me off. Not even a warning.
@Sluggernot, But wait, how come the media didn't cover the white guy that was shot in the same situation a year ago? Why didn't anyone protest then?
@Chief Poundserhard, exactly! A taser itself may not be lethal, but if the criminal successfully uses it on a police officer and incapacitates them who says they won't then take the officers firearm and shoot them where they lie? Those officers were not in the wrong
@Sluggernot, I'm assuming the shooting a guy in the back is from Rashard Brooks. While resisting arrest for a DUI he stole a cops taser then punched another cop, fired it at them point blank, then fired it again as he was running away. He wasn't unarmed. Please watch the body cam of Rashard Brooks's arrest and subsequent shooting AND look up Tennessee V Garner as it's well established case law that pertains to police shooting people in the back.
Btw the cop that shot Walter Scott in the back got 20 years. But I guess cops aren't held accountable. 🤷♂️
@NotCaveJohnson, Walter Scotts killer was the first one to be prosecuted in FOREVER. Only after video came out of him planting the taser.
For fun I googled police shoot man in back RANDOM US STATE
at random i picked Indiana. Found a hit.
I tried Washington after that and didn't see anything, admittedly. Seems like this happens quite a bit. Weird
@bowlnmike, lucky you. I’ve gotten 1 warning in my life, but it didn’t come without punishment. The cop roasted my a$$ for like 15 minutes because I had a radar detector and still didn’t slow down. I then made the mistake of telling him it didn’t even go off, so he got me on the “why even have it in the car??” So then I got an Escort Redline EX, and life has been good.
@Sluggernot, but I doesn't happen quite a bit... We live in a country of 330million and people who commit crimes tend to not want to go to jail. That's why Tennessee V. Garner is pounded into cops heads for training. Even if you found 1 case for every state per year it still would not be happening "quite a bit". Quite a bit is the murder rate in Chicago. 1k people per year (most of them justified) across THE WHOLE country is not a lot. Do you want the rate to be zero? It can't be zero. Cops are trained to not shoot people in the back unless the suspect is armed or at least poses a threat of serious bodily injury or death to the officers or others. This is a judgement call. As in every profession human error is going to happen. It will never be zero.
Checkout "Police Activity” on YT. It would do you good to listen/see the perspective of police in a few use of lethal force interactions. The channel is just body cam footage of incidents across the US.
@NotCaveJohnson, but when it does happen and it's straight murder. Even premeditated, it went unpunished until recently.
@Sluggernot, so you're telling me that we live in a country that has improved it's record of accountability? Can you understand why it's frustrating to some of the people on here to see a large portion of society getting upset about this when we are moving in the right direction. And how the act of widespread anti-police sentiment is a potential detriment to that progress?
This country is making progress. Nobody is ok with murdering. But the people who argue with you on cops murdering people are likely going to be more informed about the occupation, the case in question, and the law. Educate your self on every case that you find upsetting so you can't be manipulated by other people's bias and you'll find conversations more productive and less confrontational.
@NotCaveJohnson, not sure how you've come to that assumption. I don't give a crap about confrontation. I have educated myself plenty. Ive gone through Basic Law Enforcement Training. Ive done quite enough to make a judgment on the dogshjt accountability LEOs have my dude
@Sluggernot, Fine. You still need to look at things on a case by case basis. They're in different police departments in different counties in different states with different judges and courts.
Whistleblower protections. That's my only suggested solution. Better whistleblower protections. Lots of stories of police getting bullied out of the job for calling others out and IA doesn't do much other than try to avoid lawsuits. Convince good people to become cops and protect officers who speak out.
The other side is to get people to commit fewer crimes. Fewer and shorter police interactions = fewer chances for LE to fvck up even if they don't improve their accountability. I don't think this is an impossible task but the conversations happing now aren't about criminality and violence in the society, only from LEOs. Which is a relatively small issue. Not unimportant, but one that is being prioritized incorrectly imo.
@Sluggernot, it seems pretty clear you have never had to make life and death decisions in a split second.
If you perceive a deadly threat, do you risk not going home to your family because some guy wanted to b an a-hole and be a threat to you? Or will you ensure you go home? Yes, sometimes cops make bad decisions by mistake. But based on what they believed true at the time, it's a justified shooting. And yes, there are bad cops. The people most pissed off about bad cops are good cops.
Here is the other thing: if you don't want to risk being shot, don't resist the cops and don't present yourself as a threat.
As to being unarmed, that does not mean they aren't a deadly threat. The news throws unarmed out there on all sorts of things. Brooks was unarmed in initial reports. Michael brown was unarmed but best the crap out of an officer and was charging him. He still presented a deadly threat based on his size and known aggressive behavior.
@RogueKnight, so if i haven't had to make a life or death decision I can't criticize police actions? I can only say "welp ive never been there so no matter what the police do has to be fine with me" no thanks
@Sluggernot, with your examples, you are looking at them in hindsight. And without presenting all the facts. Yes, maybe some of those deserved discipline and charges. But you do not have all of the facts. You also obviously don't understand the laws regarding use of force for law enforcement.
@RogueKnight, oh please. I have extensive training on lethal force and justification.
@Sluggernot, if you did, then you would understand use of force is judged on what a reasonable officer believed at the time of the incident. So with your flash bang example, it's probably not reasonable that the cops would know there was a crib there.
@Sluggernot, all I meant by saying you obviously haven't is that you're examples and statements are not meeting the standards set by the supreme court.
You are also failing to hold those who resist officers accountable for their actions.
@Sluggernot, what is this extensive training you have?
@RogueKnight, i do need SOME brevity typing on a phone but yeah on resistance I see few (some) stun guns or pepper spray. I am uneducated on pepper spray usage in public but it seems a better option than a 5 minute chokehold. But my point is larger than the 5 examples. Or the 5 killings over the last few years that sparked riots in Baltimore, LA, CHICAGO, e.t.c. the point is we all know a dozen stories or more of Cops being objectively bad and getting a paid suspension.
@Sluggernot, most use of force issues are controversial with cops saying justified and others saying it isn't. Brooks is an example. Cops are condemning what happened to Floyd. I have yet to meet one cop who defends what he did.
Chokeholds on the west coast areused in deadly force encounters only. A carotid control hold is NOT a choke hold, but is still only used against violently resistive subjects.
Pepper spray is low level, but often times doesn't work and also exposes the cops, impacting their ability to deal with the situation.
@Oh so cherry, and yet crime rates are decreasing...
@Natural Sarcasm , it’s hawt when you get so involved
@griffinstorme, Ah yes. *nobody there for crimes to be reported to* "Look, less crimes!"
@Chief Poundserhard, you are an idiot
@Landrover, thank you.
Well what are they supposed to do? Risk getting arrested for doing their jobs?
@Slovak Guy , they gotta risk their lives for people who’ve demonized them and get paid jack for it, can’t imagine what’s stopping them
@Slovak Guy , maybe if they didn’t violate that constitution while doing their jobs then yeah
@ReverseGiraffe, please explain how shooting someone who fights you, resists arrest, steals your weapon, and the fires that weapon back at you is unconstitutional.
@tampon thief, there’s no possible way that happened without escalation, given the footage that was released of the guy being totally nice and compliant.
They want to pout and whine and not do their job because murderers are being held accountable. I say good riddance. Out with the trash.
We don’t need the police
@Landrover, that's what they said in chaz but then 6 people got shot in 10 days and 2 of them died
The police are not the judge jury or executioner, there should be no deaths from cops, none of the people cops apprehend are criminals because you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law
It’s funny because of the F word.