Making this in lieu of a possible comment war:
Maybe a group a people who partake in degenerate behavior shouldn't be protected within the larger social group they identify as, nor be a representation of said group. Stereotypes are only good as jokes; people who reinforce them through their ignorance and actions are not good people
@ptitty1231, except the Asians who reinforce the stereotype that they are smart, they aren’t bad people.
@ptitty1231, Well, as long as they ARE protecting their degenerates within their larger group, I will associate their degenerate behavior as being representative of their larger group.
@ptitty1231, the Catholic Church has proven that it is more interested in covering up the rape of children than it is in saving souls. It is a fûcking sham and needs to be completely disbanded.
@raki zaki, did that offend you? You’re going to stick up for the church at this point? Let’s hear why?
@big freedom, also the scale of it was massive too, ppl knew about it back then but not to the degree that it was discovered, Catholic church should've shunned them out. Now ppl mistrust them
@RomeoStealYoGurl, not was. Is massive. It’s still happening.
@big freedom, This again is looking at the actions of a few people and assuming it to be representative of a whole. There has certainly been plenty of cover ups throughout the past of this degenerate behavior and I agree that should not be happening. However, especially recently many dioces have released names of the clergy accused of these actions and is the church as a whole is working to stop these cover ups. I am curious as to know how you came to your conclusions of the church being a "sham" and not interested in "saving souls"
Statistically, the Catholic Church has no bigger problem than any other Christian sect with pedophilia. It's just more highly publicised. The rate of pedophilia within churches is actually very similar to the rate in the general population, which just shows that people who believe in God are just like everyone else.
@PottedPlant, where the hell are you pulling those made up statistics? Oh, I found the Wikipedia article.
And even if that’s true, it’s not a relevant statement. It doesn’t matter to the children being raped, and then the priest is moved to a different town to rape again, what the percentage is. It’s the rape of a child, and the church knew it was happening and did nothing to prevent it.
It’s literally choosing to protect the church and it’s raping priests over protecting innocent children.
If you’re going to defend them on “Well it’s about the same rate” as the general population, you’re a sicko.
@Jomyani, you’re wrong. It’s the actions of thousands of priests and YES the whole church is guilty. The Catholic church, as an organization, KNEW it was happening and rather than try to stop it, they would move a priest that they KNEW was RAPING CHILDREN to another town rather than give him to the police.
And it is still happening today in spite of all the news about it.
Some diocese are finally coming clean, but that’s the actions of a few, not the organizational a whole.
Dude you need to calm the fvck down and be reasonable. There's plenty of data that's not from Wikipedia that you can look this up from. I am not defending the terrible people who cover up rape, I'm not defending the people in Catholic church who let it happen. I am however pointing out the fact that the stereotype that is associated with the Catholic Church having abnormally high pedo rate is incorrect. Acknowledging that fact is not the same as defending rapists, it's just being honest about reality. It's especially hypocrtical of other Christians to laugh along with the incorrect stereotype about Catholics, all while having a similar rate of pedophilia. That's what I am trying to point out.
@PottedPlant, you’re using a false argument. Nobody is comparing Catholic to anyone else. We’re calling out the church for raping kids. Something that I think everyone should do every time they hear of it wherever it happens. It happened in the church so yeah, I’m going to call it out every chance i get. Just like I do with US Olympic teams and colleges. They rape kids. Don’t defend them. Ever
By all means criticize the Catholic Church, that is your right. My point still stands. The problem with this picture, as well as your original comment, is that you seem to believe that the Catholic Church is worse than any other church, when that isn't the case. My pointing that out isn't absolving the Catholic Church of its actions, only correcting a stereotype that is not born out when looking at the statistics.
@PottedPlant, still with the statistics ... and my original comment said nothing of other churches. You’re using false logic. There are priests in the church who rape children. The church knows it’s happening and protects the priests and allows them to rape more kids in other towns. That’s not a statistic it’s a fact. Has nothing to do with any other church or any number of rapes that are not involved with Catholic Church.
Your original comment was that the Catholic Church was more interested in rape than saving souls. Unless you're going to be willing to say that about every other church then I'm not sure how that can be taken otherwise. For the millionth time, I'm not defending those pos rapist priests, only pointing out an incorrect stereotype. If you think statistics don't have any factual value, you may as well just give up on logic, because you're clearly not good at it. Only emotional appeal and outrage.
@PottedPlant, dude. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT OTHER FÛCKING CHURCHES. I made a comment about the CATHOLIC CHURCH because that was what the OP posted and morons in here defending the church.
And using statistics for this argument is absurd, refer to earlier comment. If you don’t get that, you could use a logic and debate lesson.
Oh my mistake then. So you would be willing to say the Baptist Church is more interested in rape than saving souls? What about the Presbyterians or the Lutherans? Willing to say the US Olympic team is more interested in rape than performing at the Olympics? Just curious to see if you stay logically consistent.
@PottedPlant, yes. I haven’t seen any evidence of sexual cover up in the Baptist church. But if they do, fûck them.
As for the olympics, every coach that was caught raping an athlete I want them flayed and beaten. If the team knew it was happening and moved the coach to a different city, then I want everyone that participated in the cover up to be beaten. I’m very consistent on my opinion on the rape of children.
@big freedom, I am sorry to hear you do not want to use any statistics or hard evidence here, but I will leave you with this point. The Catholic church does over $4 billion in outreach/charity programs annually.
Anyway, I wish you best, man. And here's to hoping the church continues to release these names and continues working to stop the cover ups, so that these people can finally face justice.
@Jomyani, a serial rapist that donates to charity is still a rapist.
And take a minute to learn why “they’re statistically similar” is not a relevant argument for this. If those kids were not raped by a priest doesn’t mean they would be raped by someone else. Statistics are irrelevant in the case of an individual being raped.
@Jomyani, Lol leave it to a catholic to think you can buy forgiveness.
@PottedPlant, so being religious statistically doesn’t make you a better person at all? How useful that religion is.
I think you have to reach level 60+ Catholic Lecturer to unlock that skill tree. Alter boy familiars then have to be tamed. Not worth the effort.
@Thecoolaccount , ok, that was funny.
Hell yeah Erik bringin that internet comment etiquette!
Hes on youtoob
@sploot, big money salvia doing the lords work
@sploot, No one: Me: *upvotes* “Blessings!!”
I wonder what people do about the firemen or cops or teachers or doctors that have raped children. Do they put out their own fires or chase criminals? Do they homeschool? I mean just because some people in a group do something horrible it must mean that is the policy of the whole group right?
@Mkb617, but fires are real, so we actually need firemen... lol but actually the issue is that if a fireman raped a child and the firehouse he worked at found out then that dude would be fired (ayyy) but despite serving no actual purpose in society except as a meeting place for friends and family, the church protected all of the rapists in its midst.
@Mkb617, Lol how many fire departments or police departments willingly cover it? And should we talk about numbers here? I dont think you do. No, i dont think you want to compare the numbers of how many firemen and police officers molest children vs how many catholic priests do. And again, most firemen and police officers i am aware of would never cover up something as heinous as this. But the church? Well hell, they will give you a new name, passport and new congregation so you can do it again. Comparing apples to asparagus there cupcake.
Catholic Church should be held accountable for the cover up and should be charged with aiding and abetting known criminals. Whole entire organization should be disbanded.
@Pseudonymble , yes there was a huge coverup and it was despicable. Unfortunately the people that will do that kind of thing have a tendency to drift into those positions because it gives them access.... my point was that it is not a policy of the church or accepted by the church as a whole. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. The actual priests who did it and the others that covered it up are a very very small minority. Unfortunately yes they are powerful and high profile. That does not mean it is accepted by the church as a whole.
@Mkb617, Well I reckon I’m just a bystander round these parts. but technically it was accepted by the church, maybe not the majority of the religious followers but the organization of the church on the highest levels decided many times to cover up child molestation and rape. Makes you question whether or not such an organization should be forced upon children at such a young age, despite forming some dangerous beliefs at a young age it puts them at a MUCH higher risk to encounter individuals likely to rape or molest them. Buuut like I said I reckon I’m just a passerby, wandering through...
@Earth Chan, once again this is not accurate... yes a lot of the higher ups and many that were at or near the very top were involved, but still a minority of these people were involved. I am not saying that things don’t even now need to be fixed, I am just saying that too many Catholics are painted very unfairly. There have been similar problems in many Baptist churches as well but you almost never hear about it because Baptist churches aren’t in general as big or as organized as a group.
@Mkb617, you reflecting blame is making Christians look bad. You made a mistake talking about firemen and cops, you staying stuck on this mistake is childish. There was cases found that lead to the arrest of priest, doing research finds the John Jay report has a few discrepancies. When it comes to any case like this try show your work and not say things flippantly. Stick to the facts, anyone with a par of eyes know that Catholics are getting a raw deal, that doesn't mean you need to take this subject so personally. And to @Albatraous, this is loving your neighbor in a biblical sense.
@That one lurker, i am not trying to deflect* blame at all. I think what many members of the leadership of the Catholic Church did is horrendous. The thing is even though it was and has been big news, very few people actually know the details or who was actually involved. The just hear church and scandal and run with it. If someone actually believed in the church before this happened or even just thought the goals of the church as a whole were good then this shouldn’t change that opinion because even though it was members of the leadership that committed the atrocities, it is not like it was actually some sort of hidden policy.
@Mkb617, the whole organization knowing moved priests that raped to new town after they were accused. Dude you can’t defend that. It’s not the actions of a few priests. It’s thousands of priests over decades and it’s still happening. And the church, as a whole, is still covering it up.
You people defending this are fûcking sickos. You are the definition of the iron law of bureaucracy.
@big freedom, do some actual research it was approximately 3000 priests out of over 400,000 which is less than 1% . It is still utterly horrifying but it is by no means the church as a whole. I don’t defend anything and I believe anyone involved will and should burn in hell. Your reaction is just an example of how people against any group can use the media to make a horrible situation seem even worse, if that is possible.
@Mkb617, 3000 priests that we know of, and the church knew about it and moved those priests to new churches. They knew kids were being raped and chose to protect the church. You defend that by attacking me for responding with outrage over child rape? You’re a sick dude.
@Mkb617, no, it's reflecting*, you're trying to shift blame onto others. You keep using disingenuous words like "but" in the worst possible ways to shift the blame, to reflect.
Then you avoid the argumentation by making it personal again. That's not healthy, it's showing you have something to hide. If you came out of the gate attacking some faulty premises instead of accepting the statement and going "but they do it to". It's a symptom of power to corrupt, being comfortable within that power set you aside from your congregation, 81%of cases happed to boys, 56% of cases happened to one child, 40.9% of cases happened at the home of the alleged victim, 52.6% was touching over clothing, 44.9% touching under clothing, 26% oral, 25.7% disrobed victim, out of the 90%of cases they detailed no rape charges and included accounts of 1.5% of cases of a priest verbally abusing or showing pornography to the victim. Age of the victims 11-14 50.9%, 15-17 27.3%, 8-10 16%, 7 below 6%,.......
@Mkb617, to turn back to the priest 56% was one victim, 27% was 2-3, 14% 4-9, 3.4% 10 and up, how ever 149 of the over ten (3.5%) group was accused of 2,960 victims, accounting for over 26% of the overall record of abuses. 7% of the priest on record was shown to have been physically, emotionally and or sexually abused in their childhood, 17% of cases were found to have alcohol or substance abuse. Out of these cases 80% of them had an intervention by Church authorities. All of this comes of allegations in a span of time between 1950-2002. Show me some other office of High Authority that doesn't have a record like this. Teaches bang these numbers out in a year or two, politicians may even have it worse. But what can't be ignored is the time this takes place in 1950-1979 68% of the accused priests were ordained. 79% a priest ordained was between 25-29, 40% of priests at the time of their first allegations was 30-39, 42.3% of the priests were associated pastors i.e. priest-in-training.....
@Mkb617, with a knowledge of this lining up it looks like the numbers could have been inflated by bad faith actors. People that slip into the clergy try to make a mockery and then get kicked out. Out of all this 49.9% was an accusation by word of mouth and 13.6% was by parent or legal guardian, making 63.5% little more then just an allegation. 26% of the priest accused, about 1,021 was investigated by the police 252 lead to criminal convictions. What is wrong working off the facts. They focus in on the worst parts of our cultures, if this was any other group there get a free pass. Even after saying all of this, if this report held to its same standards the other groups then the teachers union and lgbt activists may have a lot more scrutiny thrown their way. We don't live in a just society, and you have news outlets working like propaganda machines. The coverage is nowhere close to being fair, and that's the way it will be as long as sophistry have a place in our culture.
@big freedom, that is an unfair characterization, you're begging the answer, the same type of mentality that went on during the witch hunts with only on clear answer. A rather gruesome and genocidal answer if you ask my opinion. By all records shown the accusations looked more like ol' creepy uncle Joe Biden then an organized ring of pedos.
The reason being of the "shell game of priest" is the response to cure for the problem. They move people around every three years, keeping an eye on any accusations being made. If in the next town another accusation is made they kick the guy out. Sounds fine on the surface but we are dealing with humans here not some sort of true false dichotomy.
@That one lurker, are you getting your info from ibelievethecatholicchurch.com?
I’m not begging the answer at all. I’m making a statement of fact. The organization of Catholic Church knew about priests raping children. Their “investigation” was to move that priest to a new town, not tell them that he was moved there becuase he was raping children at his last town, and that’s acceptable? Are you fûcking kidding me?
If I’m in that new town and didn’t know and left my kid with that priest... it’s the Church’s fault as much as it is the priest’s fault.
This is indefensible, yet here you are trying to defend it... sick
@big freedom, not saying that you're interested in facts, logic or reasoning or at least reading. You could tell I'm not happy about the situation is much as the next guy. Your moral outrage on the other hand is just as despicable, because you're using child rape to beat anybody that doesn't fall in lockstep with you. If you could breeze past three full bars of text where I call on every statistic from the 2002 case study and still think I'm here to defend child abuse of any kind.
@That one lurker, I’ll say it again, statistics Do. Not. Matter in this case. It’s not as if those kids would’ve been raped by someone else if they weren’t raped by a priest.
I don’t demand anyone fall in with me at all. But if you defend rapists, yes I’m morally outraged at the rape of children, then I will absolutely call you out on it.
@big freedom, huh, no wonder you quoted a fascist. The big "but" you put there is telling. Be less reactive and think.
Statistics don't matter, then we can make up whatever we want, the Catholic church raped no one then. It was just all made up by angry atheist that hate Catholicism. All made up the Illuminati lizard aliens in between them trying to turn the whole planets frog population gay. I don't need statistics to tell me that I'm wrong. I'll say that I'm right because every piece of factual evidence is either too wordy for me or it's inconvenient to my facts.
Facts do matter, evidence does matter. You saying otherwise doesn't make the facts disappear. Rapes occurred, mostly it was molestation. Facts are hard to fit in a narrative, grow up and get used to it.
@That one lurker, And there it is. The stupidest thing posted on the internet. Did you read why statistics are irrelevant in this case? And what fascist am I quoting?
@big freedom, Robert Michels and his iron law of oligarchy. A socialist turned fascist because he wasn't able to be a part of the iron law.
"The stupidest thing posted on the internet" is a satirical mockery of someone who states that statistics don't matter? - quoted from the person being mocked for believing that statistics don't matter because of his moral outrage.
The statistics are irrelevant to you because you're out for scallops and blood. By how flippantly you've been throwing this around it's obvious that you don't actually care about the kids being hurt. You're only caring about them being hurt. Two separate things that are vastly different. But I would expect your quick reading and you're faster responses to understand the nuance.
@That one lurker, man you just throw one logical fallacy after another. Good luck out there man.
@big freedom, that's fine, find roost on some statue while I clean off the board of your intellectual deposits.
@That one lurker, lmfao. Yeah bud, you’re such an intellectual. Best example I’ve ever met of Dunning-Kruger
@That one lurker, that’s some high level hypocrisy you’ve got there, “Your moral outrage on the other hand is just as despicable,” this is the Catholic Church you’re talking about the ones that implemented the execution of heretics and apostates when they did not follow the “morals” of the Catholic Church. You are an imbecile if you think you can judge others for being morally outraged when defending an institution that once executed those who strayed from their given “morality”. I’m speaking as a former Catholic raised and sent to afternoon religious schooling when I say screw that institution.
@Soser5, the quote you're using is out of context. The guy was trying to bully every one using moral grandstanding. Everyone can see that the molestation of children is wrong, even the most depraved among us can see that, my main problem with the Catholic church is their handling of this subject. That doesn't mean every one that defends the religion condones the rape of children. The church and the faith are different, "big freedom" wasn't making that distinction, conflating those of the faith are complicit.
So, here's your problem and why moral outrage doesn't work on the internet. Think for a blasted moment, if I was in defense of the Catholic church why would I put up the stats and statistics that coused the whole scandal to begin with. Is it fair to say you don't believe in facts, statistics or logic because you're defending a man who says they don't matter?
Statistically, the Catholic Church has no bigger problem than any other Christian sect with pedophilia. It's just more highly publicised. The rate of pedophilia within churches is actually very similar to the rate in the general population, which just shows that people who believe in God are just like everyone else.
@PottedPlant, again with the lying using stats!
Let’s picture this. The Catholic Church found out that a priest was raping kids. They alerted the authorities and that priest went to jail. He didn’t go to another church and rape more kids. According to your “statistic” those kids would be raped by the general population.
Or can you understand that the statistic doesn’t matter in this case. The rape of a child is not a statistic.
And it continues to happens and the church continues to cover it up. It’s not “a few individuals” it’s thousand of priests and the church as a whole knows it’s happening and continues to hide those priests.
Quit defending the indefensible with a statistic that doesn’t matter.
Ever hear of the “iron law of bureaucracy”
This is a text book case.
@PottedPlant, so be religious doesn’t make you a better person in a category like rape? Cool
What's your point? People aren't religious because they want to be better. That would have the premise that they knew what was good before they became religious, not that their religion tells them what is good and how to behave. People are religious because they are afraid of death, and religion offers them a way of escaping it. Religion also gives them some idea of an ultimate meaning to their existence, not just molecules floating through space.
The pot calling the kettle black
@megamanx181x, Meanwhile, the tea kettle is actually blue.
"They encourage a culture and activities that are countary to catholic ideals" you mean "love thy neighbour" isn't something Catholics are meant to do?
@Albatraous, by all accounts the lgbt community uses love in the carnal fashion. "Love thy neighbour" is ment in a less perverse way. The man is calling out Pride parades, an event that is known to have promiscuous intentions, with its attendees barely clothed with no what with all of children drag to the event by clueless parents trying to act inclusive.
@Albatraous, just because you love someone that doesn’t mean you can’t tell them what they are doing is wrong. That isn’t an argument about whether the lgbtqrathf+ community is wrong or not. I am just saying that if Catholics, or anyone else, truly believe that someone is doing something wrong telling them so is not the same as not loving them.
@That one lurker,
“by all accounts the lgbt community uses love in the carnal fashion”
It could just be poor phrasing, but that sentence makes it seem as if you think lgbt people only love each other sexually, and dont love in the classical sense of the word. Which is a pretty fvcked up point of view.
@Mkb617, i’d say that telling someone that they can’t be who they are and can’t support other people like them is the same as not loving them. yeah
@K1l, the church doesn’t say someone can’t be gay, they say you should not engage in gay sex, just like they say you shouldn’t engage in non married sex. Sometimes when you love someone you have to tell them what they are doing is wrong. Once again that isn’t a judgement on all the letters of the alphabet that is now a part of these groups. But If Catholics, or anyone else, believe that what someone is doing could lead to their ruin it would be immoral mot to tell them so. That doesn’t mean they should harass them about it, that is its own kind of wrong, but to encourage it would also be bad.
@Mkb617, But the church also doesnt want gays to marry. So the argument isnt just they don’t want people to have pre-martial sex, they don’t want gay people to have sex at all.
It’s pretty disgusting to say that you decide who can and can’t love each other. Im not saying all catholics are bad people, but if your religion says that it’s “immoral” for two consenting adults to enage in love and sex you need to re-evaluate the morality of what you follow.
@K1l, to speak in the broadest sense of how they use the word, it is carnal. Individuals may have different uses of the word, the main focus in the sentence I wrote was for the community. The community only knows carnal pleasure in its debauchery. That is why nowadays the lgbt community is making fun of the idea about a straight pride march. If they were about love in the purest sense of the word they would not be the lgbt community they would try to encompass heterosexuality as well. I hope that cleared up why I used that specific phrasing.
@That one lurker, the community focuses on “carnal pleasure” because that’s what people have always had a fuss over. It’s been called “unnatural” for men to lay with men and women with women. Of course they gonna focus on the thing that people are targeting for.
But they do focus hevaily on love in the classical sense. That was the whole point of the fight for marriage equality that was only just legalized 4 years ago.
And the reason why straight pride isnt included in the lgbt community is because the community is for sexual orientations that have been historically oppressed. Being straight is and has always been considered the “norm” so there’s no need for straight pride.
@K1l, my point had to do with the love they neighbor. No the Catholic Church don’t want gays to marry but they also don’t want previously divorced to remarry either. They believe man and woman forever until death. I am not saying right or wrong in this. I am just saying that just because they believe these are wrong does not mean they don’t love them. They just think they are wrong.
@K1l, so you agree with my original statement, that you attempted to morally shame me out of.
What class will sense do you mean? After gaining the right to marry they started to harass anyone that disagreed with them. Trying to steal away their livelihoods and make them so ostracized that they could go hungry. If the community's focus was on Love then they would outwardly the crying defame anyone using these tactics to silence their opposition. My example is the guy and the wedding cake. One the first lawsuits, got hit with another lawsuit by a trans activist, after the baker one again the same activist sued him again after another declined "order". Look up the last one and how demonstrable it is. This is what we see as the communities idea of love.
@That one lurker, No, I don’t agree witj your original statement. You claimed that the community focuses exclusively on sex, which is not true. It’s a main focus, but not the only one. The biggest focus is acceptance of love and sexual attraction between people of the same gender. The whole point of gay pride is “we love who we love, please accept that.”
And the deal with the baker thing is ridiculous. The baker has declined service to people based on sexuality and gender identity. The people he declined should have a right to sue for discrimination.
Imagine if the baker refused service to a black person strictly on the basis that they were black. That’s discrimination, no? Replace black with “gay” or “transgender”, it’s still discrimination.
@K1l, I'll do the last one first because I don't have much to talk about on it. The transgendered individual in question is an open activist a part of a transgender activist organization who is going after a person that doesn't even live in their state. If this cake was earnest that is an entirely different question but after losing the lawsuit with this baker the activist put in another order. If you don't know what the next order was, please understand that I hope we both understand here at this is a malicious Act.
The activist wanted a birthday cake to celebrate the birth of satan, it was to have a pentagram and an upside-down cross, with a standing of baphomet licking a six inch cake dildo that the buyer wanted to be "fully functional".
The activist is trying to shut this man down for having a difference of opinion. Can we not come together to say that this is not furthering the conversation? Or do the ends justify the means?
@K1l, no, I specifically tried just stay away from the word sex. An apt way of discussing the habits of the lgbt community is to call them carnal pleasures, fashions, and even debauchery. All of that and none of that can involve sex. The community runs around and acts like a fool showing off their junk to any person that passes. How is that respectable? How are people not supposed to look at that and not call it stranger outlandish, odd, or even queer. Force everyone else to accept it so that you become normal, instead of becoming normal with a few quirks.
" the biggest focuses on acceptance of love and sexual attraction between people of the same gender." lgBt.
Also even if I gave you a little leeway on that you have the alphabet soup pouring out of everyone's cans to be a special snowflake. The "community" has literally everyone but the cisnormative. It's even used as a slur. Why is it used as a slur? If you're trying to be accepting of everyone's sexuality, then why make it a slur?
@That one lurker, lol that’s fvckiny hilarious and obviously a joke. I don’t know much from the case, from what I do know, the baker cited “religious beliefs” as the reasoning for refusing service initially. The flaw of that logic is that no religion that I know of has rules against transgenderism. The second cake request was to give a real reason to refuse service, because the first cake order was completely harmless and there is no justifiable reason to refuse service for the initial request.
And again, the baker was being unjustifiably discriminatory. I would want the same backlash if a transgender baker refused service to a cisgender customer just because they’re cisgender.
@That one lurker, Lol there it is, you seemed calm at first but now you’re lashing out. Do you actually know anybody from the LGBT community, or are you pulling all this from some youtube videos you saw of a couple LGBT pride parades?
Of course some people at parades are outlandish, but that doesnt represent the LGBT community as a whole.
Gay people don’t run around all the time whipping their dicks out. It’s really extreme to equate some people getting wild at an event to an entire minority. It’s actually hilarious that you think that’s all these people do.
Im not denying that there are some people who take it too far, but cmon dude, the vast majority of them are normal, level headed people.
@K1l, maybe take a moment and think about what you're making this guy into? He's a martyr, pure and simple.
Now let me take you through the steps, two gay people came into his business ask him for a "custom cake". He refused and offered them a pre-made cake. Instead of leaving and going to another bake shop less than 5 miles away or so, they sue him. He wins because it was a "custom cake". The transgender activist comes along and purchases a "custom cake". He wins that one because it's a "custom cake". On the same day that the court ruled in his favor, the exact same activists ordered another "custom cake". It's extortion at this point.
@K1l, I am specifically speaking in the case of Pride parades. Is the American Pride parades was anything like the Japanese Pride Parade earlier this year, you would see a lot less kick back. It looks like a normal Cavalcade of people. These people, that run around and do these outlandish things, don't want to be considered normal. Why doesn't the "community" call it out?
Literally the pope, meaning the head of Catholic religion, said "be kind to everyone" When talking about gay people. Wtf
To be fair, the bible actually says you should not judge others for your actions, specifically because who are you to challenge those actions? Are you sinless? Most likely you are not therefore you should@not judge others simply because they are of a different faith or do not believe the same things you believe. Instead it says to love everyone as we are all creations of God.
@Implicit88, That argument is so often used against Christians to try to implicate them in being judgmental and otherwise acting contrary to the Bible. It’s become a sort of “gotcha” anytime a Christian or group of Christians stands against an ideology or action they believe is immoral. The problem is that the argument is flawed deeply due to a lack of understanding of the context. Yes, the Bible, specifically Christ himself, does forbid judgment. Yet what he is referring to is the judgment of sin, as in what the Pharisees were doing, the Pharisees were playing God by deciding who was good and who bad in accordance with the law, and they were so concerned with judging other people that they overlooked their own sins. In another passage Christ famously says “let he without sin cast the stone first” and again he is referencing that no human is without sin and therefore no human has the right to judge the sins of another, such is reserved to God alone. The catch there is that making moral
@Implicit88, judgements about ideologies or activities is not judging a person for their sins whilst overlooking one’s own sins. Nether Christ nor the Bible ever commanded followers to look away when they saw evil, or worse, to become enveloped in it for fear of judging others. To the contrary, scripture frequently warns believes to guard themselves against falling into temptation and being submerged in sin. One doesn’t have to cast judgment on another person to see that a certain type of belief or action is immoral and sinful. If we were talking about the Church welcoming in murderers and condoning an ideology that supports murder, suddenly I bet detractors would throw out these arguments about not judging others, but because the issue is the LGBTQ ideology, these arguments are seen as valid. So again, it should be said, the church declaring its opposition to a particular ideology or action is not in fact the equivalent of casting judgment on the sins of others. Honestly the church
@Implicit88, would likely be against “Pride” even if it didn’t celebrate some of the core elements of the movement (homosexuality, trans individuals, etc) just for the simple fact that it pushes a narrative of it being ok to put one’s sexual preferences on public display, and because it runs counter to the church’s own teachings on sexual morality (is abstinence encouraged at Pride, for example?) so the point is, the church can and should stand against ideas it views as sinful, and doing so doesn’t equate to casting judgment on the sins of individuals. Last time I checked the church is also against greed, but I don’t see everybody rushing to defend billionaires from the church’s stance that greed is immoral and sinful.
@Implicit88, saying that something is a sin is not making a judgement. If someone is jaywalking and you say “hey you are jaywalking” that is not a judgment, that is just a fact.
What do you mean by "you people"?!
@Effectpanda, the Catholic church
@K1l, I am seriously in shock that so many people are willing to defend the Catholic Church.
“But they’re statistically the same as the population at large”. Somehow that excuses knowingly covering up and allowing the continuation of child rape? Unbelievable
I was born in June, and recently learned June is pride month, which explains why I’m hella gay.
@AceWolf456, That’s not how it works, but it sounds like you’re gonna have a fabulous month anyway.
@AceWolf456, well, I was born on D Day, just like Robert Englund, but I'm not overwhelmingly patriotic, so your logic is flawed.
I will, however, haunt your nightmares in a damn heartbeat.