Doesn't that make it conditional?
@fool for fun, only if you love God to stay out of hell.
I feel like it's more of Him just giving us a choice to accept Him or not instead of forcing it. If we choose not to then we simply go to a place where He doesn't exist because that's what we chose. What happens there is none of His concern.
@AlyciaFear, but the point is that he apparently loves everyone. Jesus died for our sins or whatever (so we should be able to sin or else he didn’t die for our sins because... that’s how that works) but don’t you have to be baptized to get into heaven? and don’t you have to accept Jesus as your lord and savior? Some people don’t believe in God because he apparently chooses not to show himself, so they can’t believe in something that there is no evidence of because that’s how their brain works... If you don’t do all of these things then God (who controls every aspect of the universe) makes a conscious decision to send you to a place where you are tortured, even if you were like a super good dude who spent all his time volunteering at a charity for puppies... seems wack to me.
Salvation is a free gift, but you have to accept it.
@TomPholio, salvation from what’ll happen if you don’t accept salvation
@TomPholio, Christianity is one giant case of self imposed Stockholm syndrome
Edit: I guess it’s a little unfair to say self imposed, it’s usually done to you by your family
@TomPholio, ‘salvation’ is a funny way of saying that if you don’t blindly believe in the proposition of this particular religion your all loving god will torture you for ever. You know, because he’s good!
@TomPholio, @ I Are Lebo, @ Captain Anderson, salvation IS free. We as a human race weren’t made to burn in Hell. We were made in His image. When Adam sinned, he committed treason by directly disobeying God’s command of not eating from the tree. Adam and Eve were deceived into thinking that they weren’t like God. Since mankind fell from grace, there needed to be a redeemer and that was Jesus Christ. God Himself gives you two options: life or death. He also highly suggest that we choose life. But hey what do I know, I’m just a preacher :). Stay blessed
@IronJaguar, and 2 books later he said we could rápe our slaves if our wives were barren and we owed god a goat if we fvcked our wives on their periods. if you take from one part of the old testament you gotta cop to all of it
@IronJaguar, there are several things wrong with that.
1) Adam and Eve were innocent of the knowledge of good and evil. They literally could not comprehend why it was wrong to disobey God. The inclusion of the serpent (which God couldn’t have not known about) made it a test designed to be failed. It would be like putting a dog in a room full of treats and telling it not to eat the chocolate one. That’s not the dogs fault, it’s the one who left the chocolate there.
2) the idea that all of humanity is responsible for the actions of an individual is entirely immoral. Substitutionary atonement seeks to make us responsible for the actions of others, which is unreasonable as we cannot control the actions of others.
3) what made the crucifixion of Christ any different than the hundreds of other people being crucified? Why couldn’t any of their sacrifices count for anything? Why does god need blood sacrifice in the first place? Does he use blood magic?
4) he does in fact give you a choice:
Do as he says or else face his wrath. He is like a mob boss, telling you “that’s a nice soul you got there. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.”
And most importantly
5) there has been no demonstration of the veracity of the Bible, so why should we care what it has to says about anything? You have to cherry pick from it to get any sort of a positive message and you base that cherry picking off of your own morality. So why do we need the Bible at all?
@Captain Anderson, I would say it’s imposed by others and then self affirmed.
@TomPholio, Don’t you have to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior to get into Heaven though? It’s not free if there are conditions... if somebody can only believe in what they see or that which can be explained by reason (and that’s just how their brain works) then it would be impossible to accept Jesus as their lord and savior, even if they were open to the idea of his existence. It seems pretty petty to make the conscious choice to send somebody who has spent their whole life doing good to Hell just because they didn’t accept your son as their own personal savior...
@Hoban Washburne, right and this was when man-kind as a whole had fallen and perversity ran amok the whole world. Hence, the whole flooding of the earth to try to start all over again. When that didn’t work (Noah’s kids turned their back on God and began to worship idols), He began to demand the ritual sacrifices of goats. With Abram (later known as Abraham), he was indeed tested to see if his loyalty would falter if God gave him a commandment to kill his only son. The installment of the Law was put there to remind us that we aren’t good enough to uphold it nor good enough at it to keep doing it. In fact, it was more of a school master where it attempted to guide us but ultimately couldn’t make the decision for us. If you’d like, you can read Galatians 3:19-25. Gives an in-depth analysis as to why for the law
@I Are Lebo, God never designed a test for them to fail. Rather, Lucifer decided to rebel against God because he wanted to be like or better than God. The Bible states that he was more cunning than any other serpent that was created by God. It also states that Lucifer was a great and glorious being and that he glowed beautifully. It’s also alluded that he was a great musician.
2. I didn’t say that all humanity was responsible for all of the actions of one. I said that people fell from grace and that there needed to be a redeemer. “For through one man death entered, yet for another, life and eternal life entered.” Romans 5:12-20.
3. The sacrifices did count for something. They served as a mantel to COVER things up, not WIPE CLEAN the stain. When Jesus was crucified, His blood was perfect to WIPE AWAY the sin of mankind. Any other crucifixion wasn’t good enough because sin had entered the world and we were all under the perverse nature. He lived a sinless life as a man. Heb. 4:15
@IronJaguar, firstly, there is no reference to the serpent in the garden literally being Lucifer, and even were that the case, is it not argued that God knows everything that will happen? Why did he even put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil there in the first place if the consequence for an individual eating it is the condemnation of the entire species? That’s absurd. God absolutely set up the fall, by putting the hazard there and by ignoring the presence of the serpent.
People ‘fell from grace’ because two of them ate an apple. That’s making humanity as a whole responsible for the actions of an individual. You do this again with Christ. Please don’t be dishonest.
Sacrificing one person doesn’t absolve another. There is no connection whatsoever between the torture and murder of Christ and the absolution or partial absolution of humanity.
@IronJaguar, and while we’re quoting bible verses as if they actually matter:
Exodus 21:7-11 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
Or how about
Ephesians 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.
There is no justification for what passages you cherry pick from the Bible. Because no
good reason exists to accept that any of it is true. There’s zero corroborating evidence outside of the Bible, and the books of the Bible were written by anonymous authors and voted into canon by a committee choosing from dozens of books.
@I Are Lebo, I’m agnostic and open to the possibility that God exists, since I can’t definitively prove otherwise... but even if he exists I’m like 99% sure the Bible is bullshjt written by random dudes throughout history.
@Blasphemy is Fun, I am not opposed to the idea of a god existing, but it depends on how that god is defined and what evidence or demonstration of existence there is.
The god of the Bible is self contradicting and therefore cannot exist.
The contradiction of perfect justice and ultimate mercy, the contradiction of being all knowing and yet is constantly thwarted by fallible humans, the contradiction between humans being perfect and made in gods image, and yet intrinsically flawed and sinful.
The responsibility and tenants of morality is a shifting goalpost with Catholicism.
@IronJaguar, real convenient how you skirted around that part where abram raped hager then Jacob went and raped Bilhah, both being gods chosen prophets on this earth, something he was pretty chill with. Or that part where moses told his army they could rape the virgins of the Midianites as a reward. You cant cherry pick the bible man
@I Are Lebo, God knew there was an enemy and gave man the authority to deal with it. He gave it to them in Genesis 2.
In 1 Peter, it talks about how Hell was made for the devil and his messengers. It is not in God’s heart for man to perish in hell. God is equally just and loving and gave every man dignity of choice. He had to because God is love and love demands a choice. If you can’t choose to say no to God’s goodness, then you can’t really choose to say yes and love Him.
I thank you for your time and your insight, fellow Funny Pics user. Have a blessed rest of your week.
@Hoban Washburne, 1. Abraham and Jacob were both before the Law was given.
2. They didn't commit rape. They had 2 wives.
Abraham took hagar as a 2nd wife.
This was also before God had Moses write the Genesis account and people didn’t know that God only wanted them to have one wife.
Abraham came out of Uz a people that worshipped the Sun or moon... I don't remember and he didn't have a lot of scripture on how to live.. Which is why he was goofy enough to try to make God's promise come true in his own strength... He needed a redeemer. And learned it even more so after the Lord got on him about having Ishmael with Hagar.
@Hoban Washburne, the Bible is pretty clearly okay with rape in general.
@IronJaguar, that’s a ridiculous proposition.
Firstly god is not love. The two are not synonymous. You don’t pray to love, you don’t obey love’s orders and commands.
As for man having the authority to to deal with the enemy, Adam and Eve had neither the knowledge or experience to deal with the serpent in the garden and God punishes them and their offspring for eternity for failing the test they didn’t even have the comprehension to understand.
God is not just if the punishment for a finite crime is infinite torment. There’s nothing just about that. If not loving god means he hates you, he’s not all loving. It’s not dignity of choice to choose either blind reverence or eternal anguish. That’s the mob boss telling you that unless you give him deference, he’ll kill you and take all your stuff.
There are many instances of Christian figures having multiple wives long after Moses, so your claim to Hoban is worthless.
@I Are Lebo, sure, its just generally the goto objectively bad example for an overall highly self-contradictory text. In a variety of contexts just about any action can be justified, save rape. So I suppose my argument is more a focus on the lie that is the superior morality of an old testament, or really biblically-based god as a whole, whose commandments and actions express the idea that rape is ok at times and then not ok at others
@Hoban Washburne, question. “In a variety of contexts just about any action can be justified, save rape”. Was that supposed to be even rape?
@Hoban Washburne, and I think it’s more that the text is so vague and the faith is so manipulative that the Bible’s words can be twisted to fit literally any narrative. Especially when you factor in selective listening.
Remember that both sides of the American Civil war claimed that the bible supported their side. The truth is the Confederates had it more accurate when it came to slavery.
@I Are Lebo, any action can be justified with the exception of rape, was the intent. could have worded it better
@I Are Lebo, i dont know if id even go so far as to say overtly manipulative. Just long and vague and frankly, cobbled together. the bible wasnt written with a unifying theme, it’s many short stories bound together flying in the face of each other, because many were written without other portions of the narrative/text in mind. look what our legal system has done with even slight vagueness in our constitution, we still argue vehemently about what is and isnt free speech and a right to bear arms, and those werent all that vague at the time. anything without extreme specificity can be warped a million different ways
@Hoban Washburne, I was referring to faith and the pushing of faith as being manipulative, not the Bible itself. If faith can and is used to justify mutually exclusive ideas, then faith is manipulative.
And rape can definitely be justified with the Bible. There are multiple accounts of it in the bible where it’s commanded directly by god for the men of his chosen people to take virginal girls from other tribes and forcibly make wives of them.
The books that constitute the Bible were voted in sometime around the sixth century. The canon was decided by counsel. That’s why the Bible seems cobbled together.
I don’t really think the debates on free speech are reasonable. Short of defamation (which has to be proven to be intentional and not just being wrong), or calls to violence, everything should be permitted. Hate speech laws are antithetical to free speech.
As for the second amendment discussion, that I leave for another occasion because I do think that issue is more complicated.
@Hoban Washburne, and for the record, rape being supportable by the Bible is evident in all of the rapist priests that are then protected by the clergy.
Crazy how things work in fantasy land
Phew...glad I’m not a nobody
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
While this might be true for some variations of Christianity it does not apply to all schools of thought, just so happens that as far as I know it is the school of thought of the reslly big one but they're heretics anyway so doesn't matter what they think, either way hate summer so I won't do well in hell