I actually do think we should try to take on some refugees if very vetted. We were a contributing cause to the powers that put many of the Syrian refugees where they are
@Runnin with scissors, I agree but I also think it's a short term solution. Removing the people who believe in change from the country weakens the chance for internal change to occur. It's a balance
@PassengerPenguin, internal change will never occurred in Syria until the assad regime has either been defeated in battle or assays head is on a platter. That's what they thought back in '00 when papa assad died and it's only escalated to what we see now from there. The goal should be to get people our of harm temporarily until their oppressive regime can be overturned and then send them back. Casualties of those that don't care either way are pointless deaths
@Runnin with scissors, it takes about 250,000 dollars to relocate one family to the US. We could support 10 families being relocated to Turkey with that money. International law states that refugees are to be in the nearest safe country, we can help more that way.
@PassengerPenguin, Most Syrians who are displaced are also hated by the Assad regime. So either fight ISIS with your country's version of Stalin, or join ISIS and fight Assad.
@Hotchkiz, But there's already too many in Turkey
@Runnin with scissors, thank you, I agree completely. The whole point of this ban is to make sure we have the plan to fix this.
You don't fix a leak without turning off the water...
@No Sjit, But there is no easy solution without war on ISIS and Assad. In the mean time, refugees are dying by the thousands.
@UmActually, true. But I believe the law states they're to be sheltered in the "nearest safe country" of which there are dozens between here and there.
@UmActually, If you've got someone in your family in need of major help, you help your family before anyone elses. We as a nation really can't afford to bring over refugees safely, and even if we could, that money should be going towards trying to fix the many problems we have in our own nation already. Many other countries who tried bringing in refugees of clashing cultures have seen major problems develop due to it. We shouldn't follow suit in that.
@Hotchkiz, and they all are taking in refugees. Besides, the UN has stopped using that part of the refugee law, since airline travel is now relatively cheap.
@Runnin with scissors, look up the immigration explained with gum balls video. You will change your stance on immigration. Extreme vetting or not.
Black people: black lives matter
White people: even when blacks kill blacks
@Sexy Homunculus, somebody finally said it! My lord!
@Sexy Homunculus, That's silly, the black community can't fix murders that happen anymore than white people can fix the fact that whites kill whites 85% of the time. We can, however, fix police brutality by utilizing better training methods, body cameras, giving non-lethal options, etc.
@UmActually, police brutality doesn't even happen that much
@Quency200, really? It doesn't? How come between 2009 and 2010, over 5000 incidents were reported of police misconduct? To say that doesn't happen that much is naïve at best.
@UmActually, BLM practically burned down one of their own towns in a riot against "police brutality" that was later proven by cameras to have never occurred. Also, one of the leaders of a chapter of BLM believes in black supremacy. BLM is a joke now.
@Arbys 2to5pm Deals, BLM is not that organized, man. They are not an official club or group by any means, they're protesters. Besides, I never said that black lives matter is entirely correct. They kind of encompass the entire tea of the protest movement, ranging from angry at injustice, to supremacy. And if we're talking about supremacy being a problem, the head of the national security board has been proven to be a white supremacist
@UmActually, are you talking about Steve Bannon?... He's not the head of national security, he's just on the council. Also, there is no "proof" at all. There was one person, Pelosi, claiming him to be a white supremacists because of white supremacists partaking in a website he *used* to run.
@UmActually, also, this isn't television. The term is "director of NSA" not "head of national security", and our director of the NSA is not Steve Bannon.
@Arbys 2to5pm Deals, I am talking about Steve Bannon, and I'm not talking about the NSA, you silly fool. I am referring to his position on the national security council, which is separate from the NSA. He is one of the directors of the security council, and has a pretty heavy vote there. And I'm not talking about that, there is plenty of proof of him that being a white supremacist, including the people that he featured on his website at the Time of his running it, as well as his comments made about Jewish Americans. He also was the person that encouraged the use of Japanese internment camps as a precedent for a Muslim ban. And this is not Nancy Pelot see, this is his own words.
@UmActually, chief strategist.
Also, I'll have to ask for a source. Every article ive read that supports the claim he is a white supremacist has only been able to point to him saying things such as the idea we should move away from multi-national agreements and that we should protect our citizens by limiting immigration. And, in my eyes, it's a fair point considering history's proof of how clashing cultures only hurts the nation. Also, he criticizes Islamic principles. As someone else on here stated before, it's not fair to label someone a white supremacists for being against the doctrines of Islam.
@UmActually, first hand source would be appreciated. Too many websites that aren't giving direct quotes, plus, they aren't giving sources either
@UmActually, um actually the culture promoted in the black community is the main contributor to why 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murders in the USA (Department of Justice).
@MrLampoon, they did not specifically say that but the 13% responsible for 50% is. I'm filling in the gap with the culture comment.
@UmActually, thank you!!!
@MrLampoon, really? You think that it is a question of culture and not of socioeconomic level? How come those murders fall basically along poverty lines?
@UmActually, yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. I have not researched murder statistics in relation to socioeconomic levels, I will admit that. However, I can already see a flaw in that logic. If it had to do with socioeconomic levels, then why do whites not make up more than 50% when there is a larger number of whites on welfare in the USA? If it had everything to do with socioeconomic levels, then whites, with a greater number of individuals on welfare, would commit more murders than blacks. But that's not the case. 13% is responsible for 50% of murders. You can't say that has nothing to do with culture. Just listen to the cultural music of "black America." It's gang stuff and "fvck the police." Look at the riots and the chants used in those riots which are predominantly composed of black individuals. It's a culture problem.
@MrLampoon, There is no "black culture," and besides, .01% of black people have been arrested for murder. Keep in mind, that 50% stat only accounts for arrests, not convictions. Saying that .01% of a group doing something is a culture problem is cool, but that's also about the percentage of yearly police misconduct resulting in a mistrial, gross personal injury, or death. Is that a culture problem?
@UmActually, while everybody is arguing with you, i'm going to point out that you said entire tea instead of entirety, which is hilarious.
@UmActually, no black culture? You're serious? If there wasn't a black culture then why would BLM talk about it? In addition, you can't say there is a "police culture" because that's an occupation.
@MrLampoon, an occupation made up of just about every ethnic background and culture.
@MrLampoon, yeah, and black people in America encompass many different religious backgrounds, educational backgrounds, socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. etc. There is no uniform black culture. No matter what you say, there is not, it is too diverse of a group and there are too many on shared experiences. Every police officer has the shared experience of training, so it is more accurate to say that there is a police culture, then there is to say that there is a black culture. The statistics that you mention, only account for arrests, not convictions. Keep in mind, most murder trials have multiple suspects that are arrested for murder. When the suspect is described as African-American, police are far more likely to arrest more people. Also, poor white people are significantly more likely to live in rural areas, and thus are not in close proximity to other people. However, poor urban white people are just as likely as poor urban black people to commit murder or be the victim of murder.
@Sexy Homunculus, that's literally like saying we shouldn't get mad at ISIS for killing US citizens because US citizens kill each other. I mean...we have white kids shooting up schools, theaters and churches what right do we have to complain about terrorist attacks...
@Tokenblackguy, and you don't think we get mad at those white people when they commit terrible acts? Most people would agree that anybody regardless of their race or background who does something terrible like that is an evil and horrible person. Whether they're a domestic or foreign terrorist they're a piece of shjt who needs to die.
Sure if you pay like we have to
@Lastmanonearth, I agree bc lots of regugees in europe tries to get to germany so they wouldn't have to work and they would get big money. Thats why you can see who is a war refugee and who is a gold digger
@sebscribe keemsta, gold digger... wouldn't they still be seeking a better life. Germany is not the promised land you are thinking of I spent 6 months there learning the language and politics. Germany in general has one of the best work ethics in the world and anyone who doesn't work is severely looked down upon in both German and Muslim cultures.
@Runnin with scissors, yeah for regular person Germany is regular country, but I tried to say that they get money(I don't know how is that called :D) because they are refugees. I can't remember how big that is money is but I think that is big enough so you don't have to work. And I said gold diggers bc people got send to smaller and not that rich countries and they were fighting for place in richest countries. Like few families were send to my countrie, in my countrie isn't war or smt, and only one family stayed because they were happy that they are out of war. I am not negative or racist about refugees I'm justi saying some of them just used chance to get in better countries. But you can understand it too they just want live in richer country
@Runnin with scissors, that's the root of many problems in the US. Not working and contributing used to be shameful and looked down on and made it very difficult if not impossible to live. Nowadays there are plenty of entitlements and benefits to stay home and not work or have kids and collect money.
Young Americans: I'm moving to Canada!
Canada: ten year vetting program much more stringent than ours
@smii7y, That's not refugees.
@Richard Cypher, Well, if the minimum wage isn't increased, that's going to stay that way.
@UmActually, minimum wage also isn't supposed to be lived on.
@Richard Cypher, But it is. Minimum wage only exists because business owners weren't paying people living wage.
@sebscribe keemsta, That's pretty obvious, they want to live in the best place possible.
@Richard Cypher, if you're going to make statements about minimum-wage, do your research, buddy. Minimum-wage was specifically put in place so that people who are working 40+ hours a week could get by in the industrial system. Minimum wage back then, you could afford to feed a family of five, get public transportation to and from work, pay rent, as well as have a little extra to save or spend for yourself. That's no longer the case, since minimum-wage did not keep up with inflation. Now, at minimum wage, working 40 hours a week, you can afford to get groceries for one, get gas, pay rent, and maybe, if you shop at discount store, you might have a little bit extra to save. You still probably don't have enough for healthcare. Let me know what your system should be, at the very least, enough to live on.
@Richard Cypher, *The minimum wage system should be
Hahaha, oh that really made me chuckle. I can barely hold back the tears, woo
Well your lives matter. It's just that you don't
*Americans who have a sense of economics, and what's been going on in Europe for the past decade with the sharp increase in rape, and other violent crimes mainly from the refugees
@Hockman9, those refugees aren't vetted. That's like saying, "A guy from Chicago is working here?? But it's so murdery there!"
@UmActually, it is murdery there, but he is a legal citizen there was born here. We didn't see the violence of another country and take in people from there who have a totally different culture than us from woman being second class citizens to throwing gays off roofs and killing other religions or making them slaves, those people in Chicago have been neglected by our past presidents and leaders that brushed it off as merely a gun issue but never dealt with what was happening there
@UmActually, citizen there and was*
@Hockman9, But thousands of Ugandan Christians enter the US as refugees every year, and they openly advocate the murder of all Muslims and Jews. Also, we do take in the people who are the targets of violence (Syrians), and we listen to the evidence (very few of the crime "spikes" have been confirmed by police or government record, nor is there any evidence of their occurrence, besides Sweden, who had a 150% increase in rape, but that's not due to refugees, that's due to the new definition of rape)
@UmActually, because we have murders and rapists in our country (at significantly lower rates btw) doesn't mean we therefore should allow those type of people in when we have statistical evidence of how they don't want to nor do assimilate to our views of human rights and our ideals, and the violent tendencies of those we let in. Extreme vetting or not we don't have the infrastructure to let in the amount the democrats want from a simple stand point of letting the ones we let in settle and assimilate rather than group together and create "black out" towns and areas of cities where they keep to sharia law and don't see our government as it's rule of law. I volunteer at a afterschool program with mostly refugee/recent immigrants and they live in trailers outside of the middle school I help out at because there is no where to put them and frankly we are a post industrial nation that doesn't have the capacity of jobs to handle the influx of immigrants and refugees we let in now
@Hockman9, Please use punctuation. Anyway, we have no evidence they don't want to assimilate and, of all the refugees in our countries, Canada and US, less than 50 have been registered on a watchlist. Maybe not treat them with such hostility and they would assimilate better. "Man, they should just all go back to their fvcking country, taking our jobs, our women, our money... Why do they only hang out with each other? They too good for us?" Also, if not here, where? They have no homes to go back to. Both sides in the Civil War want them dead.
@UmActually, the new divination of rape didn't take place until recently this has been a epidemic since 2006. Plus Germany and the U.K. This isn't an isolated incident. We dot. Have obligations to take in who we do not want to take in. Christians and Jews there are in a totally different environment from where we live in a civil society. If I was in a war torn country getting slaughtered and enslaved I wouldn't be too kind toward the muslims who are the ones doing it currently. I have heard the death to muslims thing but I have heard over and over of the death to America from main stream muslims in the Middle East. The one retired marine that was privately contacted through an organization loving there can't even leave his base of operations because the farmers villagers and citizens would capture torture and kill him. That's happened to news reporters Christians and Jews there. That's actual evidence to attest we don't want people with that mind set to come in by the thousands.
@Hockman9, 2010, actually. The jump happened in 2011. German police stats show no evidence of this, and the U.K. hasn't either. Sure, we shouldn't, but the US calls itself the world police, it's got to step up to help the people they bomb. Ugandan Christians are in political power in Uganda and are the ones doing the slaughtering. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, my man. But why are the ones here perfectly peaceful?
@Hockman9, if we want to help, let's help them there. But we've already seen the effects of when we try to make a country democratic or "westernized" in our sense of the term. They don't have the same values as us and we can't change that anytime soon especially by just throwing them into a culture where they see woman uncovered 24/7 and think that they'll just get used to that when in their culture that is a sign of a whore that you can just take for sex, or seeing gays kiss in public all the time when there that is a capital crime and they would decapitate them and hang them. Or woman not obeying their every command getting beat publicly. These aren't things you cant just unteach because these are the things they are being taught since they are small and even in America or the west still being taught in their mosques and schools
@Hockman9, We can't help them there. Assad hates us as much as ISIS does. In any case, the solution, to you, is "let them die," even when the refugees here are not violent? "I know with the statistics say, I'm ignoring them because it doesn't support my narrative. LALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU"
heres a fun fact: although trumps supporters were mostly white, white people as a collect DONT support him! (Whaaaaaaat?)
@Stalingrad, Your "whaaaaaaat" at the end makes me think you're being sarcastic. If you are, you're wrong. No one race of people does anything as a collective. People are individuals.
@Weird Porn Stash, i mean thanks for agreeing with me, the whaaaat was tongue in cheek, a sarcastic "i would never believe that"
I do think you may have misinterpreted what I said. I said white people as a collect dont support him because you ask a mass of white people if they like trump and some will say yes, some will say no. May be a majority but for the most part its not "You white? You prob like trump huh."
"All lives matter" is just another way of saying "shut up ngiger."
(Leftist) Women: women's rights matter
Someone: what about preborn women?
@Tyrellious, Abortion has reduced maternal death by over 800%. When moms die in childbirth, the baby has a 25-35% chance of survival. Without abortion, more people would die.
@UmActually, if you don't think of the preborn child as a life, yes. If you do, then even a 1000% decrease in maternal deaths associated with birth complications (not even addressing the third variable problem of giving all 800% to abortion when we have made other advances in maternal science in the meantime) would not be enough to level out the life lost.
@Tyrellious, No... as I said, when the mom dies, the child has only a 30% chance of survival.
@UmActually, yes. But given the tiny number of maternal deaths, and the large number of abortions that have little to do with maternal safety, the statistics swing to the side of waste. From a perspective only viewing maternal deaths, sure. Abortion lowers that number. But when compared to total abortions, total births, and total deaths, a gross gain of 800% on a tiny number is still a net loss.
@Tyrellious, "We should let them die, because there is so few of them." Nice logic, bud. Go tell your mom that if she had a complicated pregnancy, you'd rather both die.
@UmActually, I didn't say that at all. I'm just saying that abortion as a whole has resulted in a net loss of life. Regardless of what it has done for maternal death rates. I'll ask you to quit with your fallacies so we can return to the realm of statistics. You don't see me misquoting you, using an ad hominem argument, bringing your mother into it, or understating a 30% chance as a 0% chance. I'm simply saying that abortion has resulted in a net loss. Were it limited to only the cases in which complications were expected, as you suggest, the numbers may be vastly different. But with abortion on the whole, the number of maternal deaths per year is not an adequate number to make up the loss of potential human life. If you don't consider a preborn child to be a life, then by all means abortion saves lives.
@Tyrellious, But a large portion of the people without complications have financial problems or academic, occupational, or religious issues. Abortion must be available to those who need it for any reason.
@Tyrellious, sides, I'd rather terminate the fetus before it gains cognitive function, than allow it to begin cognitive function, live for 2 to 3 months in constant agony, and then die. There are 1 million reasons why abortion should not be illegal. On top of that, women will still get abortions, because you think a 16-year-old in Catholic school is going to carry a baby to term? No, they're either going to get an abortion in the clinic, or if that's not available, they're going to do with a coat hanger. Making abortion illegal does not mean that people won't get abortions, it just makes the people who need it go to drastic measures to get it.
@UmActually, again. Nowhere near my argument. I'm not arguing for or against early term, availability, financial assistance, those who work around the law or anything of the sort. I'm simply saying that abortion is a net loss of life. I leave the rest to philosophical discussion. I'm only interested in the statistics
@Tyrellious, Sure, you say it is a net loss of life, but that is assuming that before 16 weeks, when most abortions occur, a fetus is fully alive.
@UmActually, yes. I am assuming that any fetus is a life, from conception to full term and beyond. That is my premise.
@Tyrellious, not that it is just a life, but that it is a human life that is as vital as a born human life
@UmActually, if it is a life, then it is a human life. As far as vitality is concerned, there are a few schools of thought, typically being that fetuses are nonvital since they are not promised to be, that they are equal to all other lives because all human life is equal, and that a fetus is more vital because of its potential than that of a human who has lived 30 years. (Similar to choosing to save a child rather than a middle aged person from a fire) I tend to fall in the universal equality group. So yes. I believe even an unborn baby is a live human.
@Tyrellious, why? What, to you Mark's life? Is it the heartbeat? Because, if you believe that, then you must be out rage that animals die so we may eat. If your issue is that it is human, what shows you what is human? Is it the DNA of the fetus? Because the afterbirth has the exact same genetic composition. Is combination of the two? Then you must be really upset that we are allowing Syrians to die by the thousands to Assad and ISIS instead of helping them. Every reasoning that you may have against abortion can be countered by 1 million hypocrisies that you have.
@UmActually, a million hypocrisies. Lel
@Tyrellious, what he's saying is pro life and anti abortion are two different things.
@K2S0, listen. You're a statistical robot. You out of anyone should understand. I'm not arguing opinions or morals. I stated mine, as was requested. But my bottom line statement is that it's a net loss. Whether you're pro life, anti abortion, anti life, or pro abortion. Now if a fetus is considered to not be a life at all, or to be less than a life, then that skews the numbers. But if a fetus is a human life, then even at an 800% reduction in maternal death (even given a 0% child survivability) life gained would still not make up the deficit. Now he may very well be arguing from a standpoint that a fetus isn't a life, or that a prospectively mentally ill child is worth less, or that a mother is worth more because she is a producer. And that's fine if he is. I'm not trying to contradict anyone's opinion or give my own. I'm simply saying that, at level pegging, you can't say abortion saves lives on the whole. You can say it saves some lives, or that the lives lost aren't as valuable.
Sure all lives matter that doesn't mean I want to pay to support all those lives.
Go where you want but if you mess with me you gonna get wrecked I don't care who you are because I'm Cthulhu
@Lord Cthulhu, Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn