Remember kids, historically, you can vote your way into communism, but you ALWAYS have to fight your way out
@thrawnfett, got your 6
And those for it deserve to rot.
Give us every single person from every other country willing to fight and die for freedom! You can take our Nation hating socialist loving bjtches 3 to 1!
@MMSieBreeze, my family is early off the boat polish, then VERY late... we got 17 to 1 in a good position, their house with long sight lines with farming fields and heavy forested woods and stream beds. And we got 1 to 7 in the first no knocks, on the same house and land on the other half of the valley. There will ALWAYS be more door knockers than family. So my goal will always be 18...
@thrawnfett, I read the Trudeau wants to dissolve parliament and host snap elections to obtain a majority party. I think I've seen this before...
@thrawnfett, socialism is here in many forms. Capitalism is literally ruining the world and has created a disgusting bloated moronic idea of freedom. Ask the Japanese Americans where their rights/freedoms were during WWII. Just a sham. America is broke. Was a good run though! But I don't believe this country will last any longer than it has.
@MeatStick, I didn't say socialism. I said communism, very specifically. Capitalisms problems is a seperate discussion maybe, but private property ownership vs state ownership is crucial for a simple reason. If you own nothing but yourself, then the only thing of value you own is yourself. I'd rather have my car stolen than my life. But ask the Niihau incident or the pro Hitler and Mussolini marches why they would lock up Americans with Japanese German and Italian heritage. History isn't ever kind, usually never desirable looking back, but I'd rather less than 150k detained for 3 years, than 50 to 150 million dead in the last century.
@thrawnfett, honestly I dont believe in any pure governing system. We already have socialist programs in the US (such as public roads) but I will also say that nationalism is the underlying problem overall. Anytime a majority in a country gains too much power and believes that their ideology is the only correct solution while adhering to rigid rules of governance is problematic.
Like in pure socialism people have the opportunity to take advantage while not contributing in pure capitalism people can lose their voice due to power dynamics becoming unbalanced due to a money centric driven society so those with more can influence more.
Realistically I think politicians shouldn't be allowed to accept campaign donations and only be granted specific times to appear on media broadcasting sources (excluding personal social media) which would grant fair exposure to both sides.
We actually used to have that. News stations including local stations were required to report both sides.
@thrawnfett, unfortunately reagan removed that contingency (the fairness doctrine) bush senior blocked it as well. I dont agree in distributing inaccurate information or leading people to answers that only align with your personal beliefs that may benefit you. that's what the fairness doctrine protected us from it was never blocking free expression it just meant organizations claiming to distribute "news" were required to be open to discussing and presenting both sides.
if you want to know why news became so biased this is basically it. the oddest thing about it is that it was removed when fox created think tanks to help better reach their audience with their views. granted they all do it now but it was 100% fox that did it first it's actually a really interesting story about the development of media today and theres tons of sources about it.
anyway sorry for the rant that went off on a tangent.
@Runnin with scissors, these are different discussions my dude. I don't care about Socialism vs capitalism, aside from "the goal of Socialism is Communism" - Vladimir Lenin. I care about communism, and the fact that despite it being a "perfect and fair solution" it somehow always ends with my family dead
@Runnin with scissors, I straight up don't accept the premise anymore. My family keeps dying to this philosophical cancer because some bourgeoisie rich kids can buy enough bullsh!t "class studies" to advocate for a system where MY only consolation is they'll ALL be lined up and shot into the ditch above us. And it sickens me that the same mass grave we fought for will be filled with the useful idiots that dragged it to our door
@thrawnfett, pure socialism may lead to communism but aspects of it are still desirable and used in every capitalist society today. What's more surprising is minimum income guarantees are proven effective with lower economic costs than poverty. I can provide studies if youd like or you can watch rudger Bregman discuss it on youtube.
I feel like we mostly agree but I'm kinda missing your point which is frustrating and I feel like you didnt really talk about my points.
@Runnin with scissors, I don't care about your points. I don't care about socialism as a concept, aside from communists use it as their excuse, then they kill my family again. I can listen to another 1000 lies about how it will be equality, and so perfect, and everything will be better. Then YOU'LL see the "but some people won't accept the better. They need to be stopped before they RUIN the better. They're enemies OF the BETTER and WE need to stop them from DESTROYING the BETTER" and I will continue the family tradition as being the first corpse in the massgrave, surrounded by the corpses of the commies that were "just trying to educate me via the front door" and all chucked in by more rich kid commies that don't get the reason they're throwing us in the pit is so they can be shot into it after
@thrawnfett, so what do you support? Pure capitalism? Because that doesnt exist...
mind you I'm second generation danish which has socialist aspects in it's country and I was raised to believe supporting the next generation to succeed further than we did is the goal.
@thrawnfett, you seem to see things very black and white while living in a gray unknowingly. Also I have never supported communism it's actually very different than socialism seeing as socialism is a democratic distribution of certain goods and services by the government paid for by taxation while individuals maintain property rights as wells as other ownership rights.
@Runnin with scissors, I support the death of every communist alive. Because even if not, when they finally kill ME, they're going to do it for me anyway. You fu@king idiots never realize that I'M NOT LYING WHEN I SAY YOU'RE SECOND. And you're going to see all the ones pulling the triggers SOMEHOW live anyway. Despite their high rhetoric about how unbecoming of the revolution you were as you're knelt in front of OUR massgrave, and as you stare at the bodies and are told to repent by singing the song of workers revolution, you STILL DIE. So I support a wrathful God wiping all of the commies out. Jeebus, Buddha, Muhammad has the best shot I say, wipe em all out and save 50 to 150 million THIS century
@thrawnfett, well I'm atheist so I dont see the wrathful god happening anytime soon. I also live in the US and I dont see mass graves coming along anytime soon due to a shift to communism which also isnt happening.
Also I dont appreciate being called a fvcking idiot when you dont even seem to read anything or accept how you live and benefit from the culmination of ideology expressed today.
You seem alarmist and are offputting so I'm going to treat you like a bum with a sign that says the sky is falling and just walk away. Goodnight.
@MeatStick, irony was it was democrats in the states. And liberals in canada who took freedom away from the Japanese in ww2....
@phalcon , did I say anything about political affiliation? They both suck.
@MeatStick, yes, you implied the Japanese people lost their freedom during WW2 because of people who had capitalistic ideology.
Rather in fact it was the socialists who took the Japanese American freedoms away.
So I was making the point that socialism has harmed more people then helped
@phalcon , no. That's not the point. My point is America is done. Two party systems starve and deprived people equally as much as your false phobia of whatever you're getting at with parties. I don't care about your political points. I care about the fact it's all garbage and regardless of which party is doing what, they don't care about you or me and they prove it again and again. We'renot the greatest. We're one of the worst. They're gonna take and starve whomever they like. It's fvckd. Just like the leaders or this country for the last 80 years. Good day.
@thrawnfett, You dont even own yourself under communism/socialism. Theyll tell you where your working and you have no choice but to work it. Also theres not a significant difference between socialism and communism. Look it up if you dont believe me.
@Runnin with scissors, every socialist thinks socialism just means slightly more goverment power and authority over the economy. It doesnt it means the goverment has seized the means of production. Which translates to it has seized all private property. When you argue for socialism and communism you by definition are arguing for the siezing of all your property. Everything you own to be taken away from you and redistributed based on what some beurocrat in power deemed to be fair.
@CocoasBro, that's just communism. Socialism is when the means of production are owned OR regulated to some degree. Kindof like having safety regulation for workers, labor laws, and environmental regulations. Under capitalism nothing would be regulated.
Tbf I think we all know that the free market and invisible hand are the best guides for how much to invest and how much of a product to produce, but I wouldn't say that deregulation every industry would give power to individuals. I think the main issue is that we need to make a government which is uncurruptable, and unfortunately not a single american actually advocates for improving the government in that aspect, because they listen to news companies trying to feed them bullsht. If you aren't paying, your the product.
@CocoasBro, I would say the government can own some industries though if they are unprofitable but provide essential services or services that make people happy. EMS/ ambulances are terribly expensive in the US because it isn't considered essential and as such needs to turn a profit. Mental heath services are in a similar boat.
@Wordsarefun, oxford dictionary disagrees with you. Maybe actrually google the definitions of words before you use them.
@CocoasBro, That's never how it is used, and that isn't the only definition that exists and is valid. Nordic countries are described as socialist, but are a far cry from what you described. There has almost never been a socialist country by your definition since even communist countries did not fully own every industry.
but, if we are going to use that definition, then any normal person would disagree with it. it would basically be the same as fascism without the nationalism. if you want, replace every time I say socialism with "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
@Wordsarefun, 1. Thats not how this works dude you cant just use a word wrong and change its definition to suit it. Im sorry you labled your entire political movement wrong.
2. Plenty of actrual socialist countries have existed. Countries that have seized all private property have existed. (And continue to fail because they put the fate of their entire economy in the hands of dipsh!ts.)
@CocoasBro, I didn't change the definition, that definition already exists. The Oxford English dictionary isn't the only dictionary that exists, and litterally punching socialism into Google give the definition I described. 🙄
Obviously they would fail, but even then there are pretty much no countries that have. Even communist ones allow capitalism. We can both be against socialism as you describe, but very few people in America want the free market to end. Most just want some socialist policies to regulate industries who's success depends on human suffering.
@Wordsarefun, litterally no it doesnt. I know ive looked so unless you can give me a link dont make that claim.
And yes they have. Like i said the determining factor of if a country is communist is if they allow the people to have private property. And there have been many (failed) examples of that.
@CocoasBro, google search: "socialism definition"
Result: "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
Key word: "or", "owned or regulated"
Source: oxford language
Google search: socialism vs communism
"a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
Very different. Socialism always allows private ownership except of key resources like oil, water, etc..
@Runnin with scissors, I like how you ignore the other definition of socialism.
(In marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.
I wonder what that "regulation" of a persons private property looks like under socialism.
@CocoasBro, you do realize oxford puts definitions in order of accepted accuracy right? You chose the third definition. Granted the second is almost useless but yours is below that. It's 3rd. Pretty sure you had to go past the first presented definition therefore ignoring it and chose the one that suited your view point.
I literally read the first result. I hardly ignored the other definition but I'll just throw your words back: "that's not how this works dude you cant just use a word wrong and change its definition to suit it."
You also didnt respond to the other source but I doubt you read it since there really isnt a whole lot there supporting your view points but it's also the first website in the results.
@CocoasBro, also you are using the oxford definition in relation to maxist theory which is just stating that it's a transitional stage to communism rather than a system in itself which is how communists view socialism sure since karl Marx is the founding father of communism... now if you listen to MLK from the left or Milton Friedman (one of the world's most famous economists) from the right they actually bring up and support a lot of socialistic policy including a minimum wage guarantee.
Kinda crazy that you are agreeing with Karl Marx...
@Runnin with scissors, 1. Thats quite the assetion you just made that the oxford dictionary definitions are meaningless. Care to back it up?
2. The first definition prooves my point socialisms goal is to destroy private property rights. Its goal is to take everything away from the individual and give it to the state.
@WallrusArmy, *political retort to you opinion*
@speedway guy, *explosive off topic rant attempting to insult your comment*
@speedway guy, *retort to your retort while adding unnecessary information to make me think I look more convincing*
@WallrusArmy, there you go, these guys get it. Do you have sources to back up your baseless claims?
@WallrusArmy, *completely irrelevant comment that for some reason gets a lot of hate*
@WallrusArmy, you fvcking wot m8. Only an idiot would think that
@WallrusArmy, *refutes your information by posting snopes*
@sticks86, *ad for relaxation dvd only 9.99 +shipping and handling*
@WallrusArmy, Greta: HOW DARE YOU?
God our leaders are so incompetent what we need to do is give them complete and absolute authority over the economy and everyones private property. -Socialists
@CocoasBro, the government controlling private property is communism, not socialism. Socialism is about resource distribution
@Baileyjrob, oxford dictionary disagrees with you.
@CocoasBro, except you forget one thing. Socialism is compatible with democracy and liberty, while communism seeks to create equality through redistribution of wealth through the use of an authoritarian government / dictatorship. Without socialism, there would be no military, fire department police, schools, libraries, railroads, interstate highways, social security retirement benefits, etc.
Was it really socialist? Or was it a dictatorship/oligarchy masquerading as socialism?
@Nurse Joy, that's what every socialist/communist country is. It falls right in line with the ideology
@officercoolguy, or maybe just maybe you could look into a few of the ideas instead of condemning them all but that would take actual work and humans can’t be bothered
@Nurse Joy, the thing is the deeper you dive into socialism, the further authoritarian your government is.
In other words, you cant have socialisim if its voluntary. You have to force people to comply.
@Nurse Joy, and the difference is…?
@eleven, the ideas are fine, noble even in some cases, but just because an idea is well intended does not mean that it will work out in society as intended. Socialism/fascism/communism, they’re all the same and all end up at the same place: millions starving to death and millions executed for wrongthink.
How many more millions have to die before we can stop having to listen to, “but real socialism hasn’t been tried yet” rhetoric?
@Nurse Joy, You realize that socialism/communism is just the ownership of the means of production. Which translates to the goverment owns all private property. Its almost impossible to have anything other than a dictatorship/ oligarchy under such a system by the very nature of creating it.
This is why I avoid socializing. To prevent socialism!
Do people still think socialism and communism are synonyms?
@Baileyjrob, unfortunately yes. What’s more is people from the United States don’t even realize how Socialism is an integral part of our everyday lives. Without Socialism, we would not have the military, fire departments, police, libraries, schools, the Eisenhower Interstate Highway system, railroads, airports, and so many other things
Can I have Healthcare please?
@Lying Cat, https://www.healthcare.gov
@Raki Zaki, thanks bruv, my Healthcare is free now.
@Lying Cat, well let me tell you my Canadian Socialized health care... fell down stairs 4 weeks ago. Twisted my ankle bad...couldn't walk. went to er... doctor did xray, said food news it's not broke, and sent me home and told me to follow up with my family doc in a week...
He failed to do more tests, turns out my family doc ordered and ultra sound and found out 2 weeks after my injury I had torn ligaments...
I probably should have had surgery to fix it, and now might limp for the rest of my life.
Wish I could have legally paid a doctor more to do a better job when I first fell.
Sure I have free health care, but it's often poor health care.
@Lying Cat, no
@Lying Cat, glad I could help
All I’m saying is that if socialism always fails, why does it need America’s help to do it?
@MrTuxPenguin, and all I'm saying is that if socialism is so much better than capitalism, why is a trade embargo from ONE capitalist nation causing it to fail, even when it can still trade with every other nation on the planet?
@Secale, that’s not really the case because the US can pressure other countries to not trade with that country by threatening not to trade with them too. Also the US imports an insane number of goods, so it’s basically losing a giant customer with a big stick that loves to intimidate other customers regularly. PS: I’m not advocating socialism I’m merely pointing out the greater impact that the US has via policies on other countries.
@MrTuxPenguin, so the Soviet Union failed cuz America made them? The second most powerful nation on earth by a fairly wide margin couldn’t survive us not trading with them? China and North Korea are so low on human rights cuz of us? The richest country in South America with one of the largest oil reserves in the world ran out of money because we kept buying their oil?
@BigJohnson86, I also said socialism not communism.
That last one is also a yes btw.
Venezuela put all its dependency into its oil so when the other major sellers (US and Saudi Arabia) dropped their prices Venezuela collapsed.
@MrTuxPenguin, communism is a type of socialism sooooo….
And what’s the excuse for Venezuela now that oil has rebounded?
@BigJohnson86, communism is more a form of fascism than socialism. Having a more democratic socialist system around our populous would lead to pretty much the same results as the last time our country had similar policies (40’s & 50’s). Our country was the strongest it ever was at that point. We had the most economic and infrastructure growth this country has ever seen and it’s when the might of our military was bolstered to make us the strongest country in the world.
@Turd Factory, the fact that we were the only developed nation that had their industry intact after 2 world wars in 25 years probably had nothing to do with that. Every major power was deveatated from the war and we had introduced women into the workforce in mass for the first time so when we brought home millions of men we just didn’t turn off the factories. We made them build other shjt like cars, TVs and radios. We became the leading world power almost by default.
@MrTuxPenguin, it doesn’t, and I’m pissed off that we keep try to intervene. It’ll fail in its own time. We don’t have to do a thing. The biggest irony is when ever we have involved ourselves in other countries’ politics, things get way worse for that country.
Bring our soldiers home, leave the rest of the world alone.
@BigJohnson86, The fact that neither world war touched American soil also has nothing to do with it?
Turd factory is right (a weird sentence but a correct one). Communism is a type of dictatorship where socialism isn’t.
If communism was at one end of the spectrum and anarchy was at the other, socialism would be half way.
@Hot Coffee, I can’t agree more. America is the biggest intervener of others probably ever. We need to focus more on ourselves.
I didn't realize there were people escaping most of Europe by raft...
Socialism and Communism are not the same, and it maddens me anytime people try to equate the two.
National healthcare, or perhaps is shaped rockets. America chose one, the world chose the other
I just love how BLM appropriated their symbol from the IRA and black culture in general has taken a lot from white culture and yet the only time ppl talk about cultural appropriation is when white ppl allegedly do it but then again nothing makes sense anymore these days
@bobbylupo, google snoop dog kilt... as a Scott myself... can I not claim culture appropriation there?
Also the other day was international indigenous day... ironic... no one cares about indigenous white people in europe...
Lots of talk about how it was bad to colonize the americas... no one is saying it's bad now for blacks and asians to colonize europe...
Lots of talk about how it was bad for white people to force "christianity" on natives in the americas (I use christianity loosely as it wasn't real christianity) but no one cares about islam being spread into Europe at present...
Principals these days are very selectively applied.
@phalcon , it’s only bad if the “bad” thing is done by a white person especially a straight white Christian but if you’re gay or black or female or Jewish or trans then anything u do is “empowering” or some other bullshït