At least he’s the most colourful of the bunch
@swizzknife, he is a very funny guy
@swizzknife, they’re all white guys tho...
At least he's friendly (and will never hold legitimate power)
@The Landshark , thankfully
@The Landshark , he’s already a senator but go off I guess
@griffinstorme, a senator for decades that has passed close to nothing that he proposed. That makes him one of the most failed senators out there, with not enough real political power or influence to do more than get reelected
@Dephenistrator, he’s moved the democratic party’s platform further left than like any senator in decades. The ideals he’s been fighting for are mainstream now. Just because he didn’t enshrine them in law in his lifetime doesn’t mean he didn’t accomplish more than many ever will.
@griffinstorme, shouting that he will make anything he can think of free ti trick lesser minded into voting for him and his proven failed ideas is no better accomplishment than a salesman hyping up a terrible car to a naive buyer. The democratic party moving left because of him.... really? Do you really want to label him responsible for that tragedy? The dems are alt left of alt left. That's not good or mainstream and that's why the 2020 dems are in serious trouble.
“It’s funny, sometimes American journalists talk about how bad a country is, that people are lining up for food. That is a good thing! In other countries people don’t line up for food: the rich get the food and the poor starve to death.”
- bernie sanders, you can search a video of him quoting this.
@Dephenistrator, we should listen more to him... guy speaks the truth like a devil
@Dephenistrator, a delusional crazy bag of bones devil
@seeUpee, “white people don’t know what it’s like to be poor”
Yeah, he speaks the ‘truth’, all right. /s
Alright, I definitely dont agree with everything Bernie says but cmon, the comparisons to communism is just blatant propaganda.
Same people who have a fit about Trump being compared to Hitler compare Bernie to Stalin as if it’s not as equally ridiculous.
@K1l, Bernie is openly socialist and put that title on himself
@K1l, any and all politicians that want to place a total ban on "assault weapons" or "high capacity magazines", which is pretty much every Democratic presidential hopeful this year, are Hitler-esque and can go fvck themselves as far as I'm concerned.
@K1l, I'm a conservative and as immature as he is, I support Trump. And I agree with you that the blanket comparisons are ridiculous. They may be similar on certain things, but not across the board, which is how the comparisons are typically made. Neither Trump nor Sanders will commit mass murder / genocide. If comparisons are to be made, they need to be out in context.
Are some fun control laws certain Democrats talk about hitleresque? Yes. But any comparison to Hitler should be made in that context and that context only.
@MrJojo, this could be said before they banned machine guns that can shoot 1200 rpmright?
@K1l, its usually ignorant and or low iq people that equate socialism to communism. These same people believe tariffs are taxes on foreign countries when in reality its a tax on American importers. These same people hate socialism and yet are okay with subsidies to farmers for lost income due to china no longer buying as much product from farmers.
@K1l, in comparison they are different. In action, socialism leads to communism.
@RogueKnight, Regardless of whether or not you agree with them, Democrat gun control proposals are absolutely not Hitleresque. Nazi Germany had very lax gun control laws. They only took them away from jews.
Actually a very similar case to Nazi gun control was in the 1940s U.S when the government disarmed the Japanese-Americans and threw them into internment camps.
@fallingback09, Bernie’s policies have aspects of socialism but it still keeps capitalism as the primary type of economy. Pretty much all of his policies are common in the rest of the Western world besides the U.S. it’s nothing radical.
Also the slippery slope argument is one of the worst forms of argument. Don’t use it.
@K1l, it’s enough to keep people on their toes. Once it remotely infringes on a free market society (drastic mandatory increase of minimum wage, high taxation of businesses, etc.) it poses a great risk of growing into socialism/communism because we’ve given the government enough control to impact our livelihood
@K1l, it’s enough to keep people on their toes. Once it remotely infringes on a free market society (drastic mandatory increase of minimum wage, high taxation of businesses, etc.) it poses a great risk of growing into socialism/communism because we’ve given the government enough control to impact our livelihood.
It’s not a bad argument when it can and has happened. I’ll use it wisely.
@K1l, comparing trump to Hitler would only be accurate in the authoritarian mind set, but Hitler was a socialist like Bernie which is why people are uncomfortable with the whole extremist left wing thing. Being extremist is the problem.
@K1l, normally I agree, slippery slope is lazy and illogical.
However, the democratic socialism model is to kill the free market in the - death by a thousand cuts - model. Sweeping, all encompassing changes are not possible, so they just take and take and take until they achieve their goals.
This is not my opinion, this is what actual socialists have told me. They claim it’s inevitable.
This is why I reflexively and continuously fight against even the smallest advancement of any socialist policy.
The free market is far from perfect. But it’s infinitely better than any government bureaucracy.
@Veraseth, it’s not an extremist left radical idea. Pretty much all of his policies are common throughout Europe and Canada.
@big freedom, Pretty much all of Bernie’s policies are taken from Europe and Canada, where they have proven to be effective in aiding the lower and middle classes while promoting a free market.
Free college for example, certainly promotes the free market. America has a major student loan debt problem. Forgiving the debt would be like a massive stimulus package for the economy. A bunch of educated individuals who make a decent living will now have a ridiculous financial burden lifted and will be able to spend more money into the market instead of giving it to the government.
Free healthcare: The highest cause of bankruptcy in the United States is from medical bills. Free healthcare would obviously eliminate that cause.
There’s still some stuff he’s proposed that I dont fully aggree with, but a bunch of his policies seem like (and have been proven to work in various nations) they would benefit the low and middle class greatly and hardly effect the upper class at all.
@fallingback09, that statement isnt true, but lets suppose it is... the same could be said about capitalism except with the key differences that profits are privatized while losses are publicized. So one could say capitalism is even worse than communism. At least in communism you share in ownership while in capitalism you end up paying for loses of companies while receiving no benefits when they profit
@big freedom, free market needs regulation. In a perfect free market there would only be one company.
@Implicit88, here let me rephrase. It’s not a slippery slope. It’s a cliff with one of two options: communism, or complete implosion of basic infrastructure. It’s not a slope, but the ending is the same.
@Implicit88, that being said, that is not even comparable since freedom allows anyone to be a part of the free market by choice with the consent of the risk of loss. That’s a good philosophy, but a danger to compare logically.
@fallingback09, before much regulations we enacted anti trust laws and so on to stop bigger companies from gobbling up all the little ones. Eventually only 1 company would remain. Even now you have huge tech companies that own many different areas. Without anti trust laws your choice would only be a figment of your imagination.
@Implicit88, no I believe in regulation to prevent monopolies. I don’t agree with a flat wage dictated by people, and ensuring that through government intervention. Government sucks at everything except enforcing negative rights
@fallingback09, you miss the reality of the situation, companies pay extremely low wages in almost all states. Hardly any states are increasing minimum wage to even combat inflation. What this has caused over the years is an increase in government reliance. So companies post profits while their employee cost is subsidized by the government. Another issue that has let this continue for so long is the reduction in costs by sending manufacturing to china. This helped americans with low income but was a double edged sword as eventually the prices of other things go up and wages dont go up to sustain that. So what we are left with is massive wealth gaps and an extremely government subsidized labor force.if wages at least kept up with inflation min wage would be around $18 an hour. I am not for a immediate increase in the min wage though since that can decimate small employers. However large employers can easily absorb the cost of a quick increase.
@Implicit88, you’re both correct and incredibly incorrect.
Correct: needs regulation.
False assumption: regulation have to come from government. You can easily and more effectively regulate from an independent and unbiased 3rd party
Incorrect: perfect system, one company. That’s a ridiculous statement. A “perfect system” has an incredible amount of competition forcing companies to abide by market demands. If they are irresponsible, market will force them out.
Whoever told you that 1 company = perfect system? That’s a Marxist and Fascist ideal.
@K1l, “free” = government paid for. Which has proven to be the worst way of using funds.
Debt forgiveness = government stepping in to fûck over the people that made loans. Government involvement caused the debt crisis, it’s definitely not the solution.
I don’t get how you don’t see how more government has caused more problems...
The government that governs best, governs least.
@Implicit88, wow...ok I think you miss the vision in what could come of socialism. Businesses would choose to close down because they are hemorrhaging money due to increased taxation and wages, and masses of people would lose jobs. Basically it wouldn’t be worth the effort of business owners anymore. Increasing minimum wage would create more inflation no reduce it.
@fallingback09, no one is proposing an increase in taxes on small businesses unless it comes in the form of a medicare for all or single payer healthcare system. Again, an approach to increase wages slowly has worked and is working in a lot of areas with no business loss. No logical@business owner would fire an employee due to a tax increase. The inly reason an employee gets fired at no fault of their own is because they no longer provide value.
@fallingback09, inflation may increase at 4% (double) but people’s wages would have went up 50%-100%. But i doubt inflation will increase that much as the money from this increase will likely be used on high volume goods and services.
@Implicit88, that’s still strict control. If someone earns their way to be a multimillion dollar business owner, why stop them? Who are they stealing from? Why force businesses to pay more in whatever form of payment? It has also still caused inflation slowly. Regardless of wage increase, product and service prices have increased due to that ideology. Has it hurt? No, but it hasn’t helped and leftist complain the most about inflation that was a secondary cause of what they wanted. And yes, they would close down or fire people if the bang wasn’t worth the buck. Socialism is downright an act of greed due to a lack of respectable work ethic.
@fallingback09, its fine to have millionaires, whats not right is allowing a system where tax payers are subsidizing low wages. I am not imposing any earnings cap. Raising the employment wage is a direct response to open markets and the world economy which have also contributed to decreasing wages (yes when adjusted for inflation). Businesses only hire people or remove people if value is or is not there. It has nothing to do with tax rates. Its just illogical. Employing more people to earn more money would actually make more sense during a tax increase if you know anything about taxation.
@Implicit88, that’s still using the government for personal gain. Not what it’s meant for and that is the main reason people blame other people for their problems and expect use of the government to coerce their way into getting what they want. Employing more people at an increased wage doesn’t result in net gains by default. That should be the responsibility of the employer and employee, not the government
@big freedom, the government pays for shjt all the time.
Trump’s tax cuts for the rich were about $1.5 trillion. Student loan debt is approximately that same number. They could definitely afford it and it would have a larger immediate and long-term positive impact on the economy than tax cuts for lower and middle class America.
Also, the loans that people are paying off arent to the colleges, it’s federal loans. The colleges were already paid, students are paying the government. Loan debt forgiveness would fvck nobody over.
The government has been a cause of many problems, I definitely agree. However, they’re also the only ones who can really fix them. Bernie’s plans seem like plausible remediations to crippling student debt, crippling medical bills etc.
Just letting these things go is pointless because the issues cant fix themselves. Many of the policies Bernie has proposed are strategies that have been proven to be effective in several comparable economies.
@K1l, so many fallacies. Government paying = taking taxes and giving most of it to their cronies before finally paying for services.
Trumps tax cut made more sense for more middle class than it did for rich. Stop listening to cnn, or any cable news.
Yes, federal loans which were idiotic government program. Do you think the government has money? It’s OUR money, not theirs. They suck at being efficient. I don’t. Stop taking my money to give to cronies and political donors.
The issues can’t fix themselves you’re right. Get government the hell out of the way and let the free market actually fix it.
I still don’t get how you see government, the reason it’s fûcked up to begin with, can possibly be the solution. What have you witnessed in your life that has given you faith in the government to solve problems?
@big freedom, The problem is that the free market hasnt been able to handle these issues. Healthcare and high medical bills have been a major issue for a long time in the US and nothing can be done with student loan debt without the government letting it go. The free market can’t and hasnt been able to fix these problems. And the point that you keep ignoring is that the proposed policies have been proven to work in several comparable economies . It’s not some radical leftist idea that’s never been tried before.
@K1l, trumps tax cuts for the middle class (not upper, if you read the results and ignore the bias) is 10x better investment then bloating college prices more and more by guaranteeing colleges will be paid whatever they demand. The more free tuition then very obviously the more they will charge because what's stopping them? Asking for more free tuition is asking for more funding to the practice that puffed up the problem in the first place. That's supply and demand and something a communist/socialist like bernie couldn't possibly hope to understand. In our era, more problems could be solved by government removing themselves from something they have mucked with too much with over regulation and bad policy.
@K1l, no, government intervention is stiffling the medical market and bloating prices by removing competition and killing free market. Your using slight of hand word use to blame free market instead
Medical costs is the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. Can’t you recognize how fvcked up that is? Higher taxes and slightly longer wait times is worth it for a system that benefits everyone.
There should still be private healthcare systems for people who can/want to afford better healthcare, but the reality is that a bunch of Americans can’t afford private healthcare and they shouldn’t be drowned in medical bills for something they can’t control.
And how would college prices bloat? They can’t go up if they are free to the public. That statement just doesnt make sense.
@K1l, i not only recognize how messed up it is, but identify the source and solution of the problem to be completely different from yours. Unnecessary higher taxes and deadly higher wait times are never the solution.
How do prices bloat? Your kidding right? If it's "free" that just makes the government pay for it and that will keep the prices soaring. Even if that worked for a while, the prices would go up, taxes would go up, and tuition would eventually be rationed as prices bloated. well bloated more they are already bloated from similar practices.
@K1l, they’ve been a problem since the government decided to get involved. They have made it worse. Period.
Our healthcare system is the gold standard for research and innovation. Government gets involved and makes it a bloated inefficient bureaucracy.
Go to benefit-revolution.com
Craig Gottwals makes a living on guiding companies through the healthcare market. I’ve been listening to him and reading his blog since before Obamacare.
@K1l, and we are not those other countries. Don’t compare relatively tiny and homogeneous populations to ours. They are not the same.
I’m not ignoring those “solutions” I’ve looked into them and have the ability to use rational and pragmatic thinking and know that they are not feasible. They give more power to a corrupt and incompetent bureaucracy. They don’t solve the problem they make it worse.
@Implicit88, the falling wages based on inflation is caused by government intervention. Those companies that are not paying more to their employees ARE paying more to their congressman to write laws that allow them to control the market.
Still shocking to me that people think the solution to this is more government. Guess what, that more government will STILL be bought by the corporations, and will exert even more influence. How does this make wages rise?
@K1l, Nah, gotta appeal to the scared individuals to try and stop any momentum behind things they dont like. Stalin bad! So this guy is bad too!
@SkizleDNizleS, just because they are both communists doesn't mean stalin and bernie aren't bad separately.
@K1l, you really ought to look at Canada to see how socialism and communisim work together. Communisim is really the extreme for of socialism.
So what do we have here? Justin Trudeau, guilty of multiple ethics violations. Including obstruction of justice. He takes from Alberta wealth to give to Ontario and Quebec while Alberta suffers. He give all our money away. He is trying to completely ban guns.
That's the problem with Canada. So many socialists programs that we cant afford to pay for them.
And when your side talks about implementing health care for all...
You know what that means? Per citizen, Canada spends around 3 to 4 times as the us spends per citizen on millitary. Tell me how the us van afford to a budget 2 to 3 times what it is right now?
This is what communism does. It starves it's people by spending on things that are unaffordable. It steals ways rights and freedoms.
That's exactly what the top Democrats want to do.
@phalcon , I don’t think it’s reasonable to imply that Canada is communistic. We’re not. While I definitely agree that incompetently run bureaucratic bullshït combined with a false compassion masking ignorance and socialistic attitudes are dragging down our economy, we are still very much a capitalistic country.
Having said that, if my government ever actually attempted to take over the means of production, let alone actually commit to the installation of communism, I’m fleeing the damn country.
Not sure where I’d go. I’d have to do my homework on that.
@I Are Lebo, dont know if I said it was, but heading towards.
And you gotta look beyond taking over the means of production to the level of control over production.
Take the former Canadian Wheat Board. While the means of production were not goverment, the means of distributing your means of production were 100% goverment controlled. Kind of like owning a billion dollar pipeline that justin bought.
It also involves the removal of free speach, punishing people who different opinions. That happens under justin. Its alos about disarming the population, well justin is trying to remove even more guns.
Also, consider control over productions. Business licences, for example can limit how many business exist.
A lot about communism is also about not having choice. Take health care... my union is promoting no private health care. That means people wont have options to choose their own health care options.
It's also about making people work for other people.....see part 2....
@I Are Lebo, part two... so be careful not to think if there is no direct control over means of productions as the benchmark of communisim.
Controlling production can still be done by indirect means and accomplish the same end results.
And like I mentioned above, it's also about being oppressive and controlling over people...
That's were we go from having socialist programs to being communist. And sadly Canada is going that way fast. In some areas already there.
So far, there are 11 Bernie fans. Probably benefit from his modernized communism plan.
@twenty8nine, don’t underestimate the allure of wishful thinking and entitlement. Bernie has a LOT of supporters.
And when it gets stale just says it louder
The motherland will rise again
Hmm, use my taxes for health-care, why yes I'll vote for that.
@Shodai Hokage, except I don’t want my taxes paying for your healthcare, so no I won’t vote for that
@PoisonousBacon, fun fact: over 60% of US healthcare costs are paid by the government.
@PoisonousBacon, One could argue, that your premiums and monthly payments do just that, you're already paying for someone else's insurance, not directly, but you still are. Except the insurance company's are making a profit.
@Empshok, even funner fact: healthcare costs have skyrocketed with government involvement. Just like college tuition. And you still think it’s a good thing?
I will honestly never understand people that believe that the government is better than free market.
@PoisonousBacon, if everyone's taxes contribute into a healthcare system, it's paying for yours too. This is what's so annoying about American politics right now. It's them or us, no middle ground, no compromise.
@Shodai Hokage, two differences in what you’re saying:
1. Freedom of choice to be involved in a pot of money based system, and mutual agreement between the insurer and insuree
2. 1 government running everything vs. multiple insurance companies competing for business resulting in better coverage for a lower cost.
Those are massive factors you just cannot overlooked
I like Bernie Sanders
@benderama, oooof course you do. You lack wisdom and the ability to either think critically or be in charge of your own actions AND their consequences.
@big freedom, that’s not really fair. I mean, I like Bernie Sanders. I just don’t think he has a realistic view of the world.
@I Are Lebo, it’s hard to be fair to benderama...
my comment isn’t that liking Bernie = lack of critical thinking. I mean that the people who want the government to give them stuff and be in charge of all of their responsibilities (Bernie’s major platforms) and miss the nuanced reason why they’re a. Terrible ideas b. Totally unworkable... people like benderama, lack those abilities.
@big freedom, it’s a lot of short sighted, self centred thinking.
@I Are Lebo, i think tbe short sightedness is one of the biggest problems because the ramifications should be obvious if you just work it out beyond the part where you get free stuff. Not everybody, but most people i talk to in person either don't think paying for "free" stuff will have any serious consequences or don't care about it at all, usually quoting something about what's right to do.
@Dephenistrator, I’ve been saying for years that if everyone lived the way I have been, that society would collapse. (I’m on government support and haven’t worked)
I genuinely predict we are nearing the end of this phase of civilization, at least in the west, and primarily because of increasing entitledness combined with the technological improvements that allow such attitudes to not wither and die like they have throughout human history.
Intersectionality is a cancer that would kill its host organism, and it’s not the only ideology currently pushing things that way.
@I Are Lebo, i agree that this has been happening. I entirely hope it doesn't go that far, but i don't see any sign of this behavior slower down but speeding up instead. There may be a game changer at the breaking point if we are lucky.
We have gotten too comfortable. This was prophesied in fallout 3 by the ai president. He said everything went to hell because we got so lazy and so comfortable we lost sight of real problems, bickered over nonsense and let the world fall apart. I never thought i would would quote that POS robot in seriousness.
@I Are Lebo, i also think that since we are so comfortable and have such great lives that detrimental loss of this lifestyle doesn't seem like a consequence to experimenting with government. I think the comfort of never having real serious problems prevents generations from fearing what can happen. Another quote, somewhat butchered:
Great men are made in a hard world and strive to make the world easy, the easy world makes weak men that make the world hard again.
@Dephenistrator, hard times create hard people. Hard people create good times. Good times create soft people. Soft people create hard times.
It works visually as a wheel, but the point is always true.
@Dephenistrator, people have begun to forget the horror and atrocity of the early 20th century, and the costs of ideological warfare. This is a really bad thing, and the collapse is inevitable. What remains to be seen is what form the collapse takes and what rises afterwards. No civilization lasts forever.
I often find myself wondering what the political climate was like in the decade leading up to the collapse of the Roman Empire, or the Byzantine empire, or any of the other superpowers of their eras.
@big freedom, that was the quote i was aiming for! Very pertinent to our time. thanks freedom.
@I Are Lebo, i used to quote that that about no civilizations lasting forever in high school. The constitution itself is the longest enacted document so it's time could end at any point. Having a two year old now I'm hoping this doesn't happen Violently. And if America collapses inward now, that would leave doors open for terrible countries, notably chinas government, to be more aggressive around the world or directly at my home.
@Dephenistrator, I’m pretty convinced that the global importance of the USA has been drastically overstated. Remember that the world got along fine without it for several millennia.
But I share your concerns. It all comes down to how the collapse takes place. In a violent clash, the victor is usually either the most well equipped or the ones with better strategy. If a violent civil war breaks out in the USA, the side with drones and wire taps is going to annihilate the other side.
My big fear is that a moralistic ideologue will seize power. That would spell the end. If someone like AOC took charge, I don’t think the country would survive the term. We’ll see what happens, especially when Trump gets re-elected. I’m also really curious with what’ll come after Trump.
@I Are Lebo, i don't think politicians will even know where to go after trump. The left went nuts and the right is aimless.
I'm not saying the world will end without the US military, but even going back a century ago was too different a time to compare to now. There are hostile super powers with weapons could threaten many countries without the US around. It's very possible a catastrophe would occur.
@big freedom, i know it’s so terrible having free healthcare and college in literally every other country in the first world. I grew up in America and moved to socialist New Zealand where everyone is poor and suffering in breadlines. I hear Scandinavia is about to fall to the reds. /s
@Dephenistrator, there is no left in America. Even “radical” democrats like aoc are just left of centre compared to the rest of the world.
@griffinstorme, that’s a nonsensical statement. Pointing at AOC and saying that she’s just left of centre is like pointing at David Duke and saying he’s just right of centre.
It’s also an unfair claim, as there are plenty of left leaning politicians in the USA.
@griffinstorme, well i guess we will just have to settle for being one of the last major countries making medical advances for all the socialist countries that can't afford it anymore. also have to settle for not endlessly bloating a national medical budget, or failing to meet demands and limiting visits, or letting health care decline in general.
@griffinstorme, you’re so far into the ideological bubble that you can’t even see the edge of the bubble. Quit surrounding yourself with people that are in lockstep with you.
I bet you think you have an open mind? $1M dollars says you can’t have a logical rational conversation with a conservative without resorting to either name calling or just shouting at them.
@I Are Lebo, um, are not familiar with the standard left/right political chart, or are you just being obtuse?
@Dephenistrator, what? Per capita, Switzerland does the most medical research in the world. The us is still behind most Nordic countries in scientific research. And the US is barely in the top 10 per capita in innovation and start ups. It’s easy to say America is pumping out the advancements when they have like 30x the population of most European countries.
@griffinstorme, the thing i like most about your statement is how it doesn't disprove the US making the most scientific advances, by using data meant to reframe everything.
@Dephenistrator, well obviously the US is gonna have the most of a lot of things. They have a sh1t tonne of people.
@griffinstorme, no, I’m not. AOC and her ilk are VERY far to the left on that scale. She’s NOT a moderate.
Your claim that there is no American left is entirely unfounded.
@griffinstorme, the value of a country is not determined by the percentage of its populace that is in R&D. That’s would be like determining a country’s wealth based on how many rich people live there rather than GDP or economy.
The USA is the largest contributor of medical R&D based off the amount of money spent on R&D, which is the primary relevant statistic.
@I Are Lebo, wow I didn’t know aoc advocated abolishing the state, wage labour And private property while advocating workers revolution to control the means of production. Where did I miss that in the democratic platform?
Also the us is closely followed by China in medical r&d. So weird that they’re socialist and Switzerland is a social democracy and they’re both doing so well in medical research. I thought that was just impossible. What an ignorant myth that America is the centre of the universe. It’s so... well... American.
@griffinstorme, you missed her push towards the abolishment of the state where she called for open borders and the shutting down of Ice. She also is pushing for $20/h minimum wage and is an open socialist.
However, none of those things define left wing. That’s part of an insane perspective so far to the left that everything to the right of Stalin becomes right wing. Liberalism is left wing and does not include communism or socialist ideals. You simply do not know what you’re talking about. You’d do well to educate yourself before spewing ignorance on the internet.
China isn’t socialist. They’re communist. Big difference. Switzerland is a capitalist state. I never made any claim that the USA is the centre of the universe and in fact argue to the contrary. I’m a Canadian and am often frustrated by American egotism, but I’m far more irritated by the false facts and ignorance that people like you share while erroneously considering yourself morally virtuous by doing so.
@griffinstorme, so, no response then, huh?
@I Are Lebo, oh my god why are you so obsessed with me? Sorry I’m not on this app 24/7. I have a life.
@I Are Lebo, a high minimum wage and open borders have nothing to do with abolishing the state. Does Europe not have centralised governments because they have open borders within the eu? Does Australia not have a state government because they have a $20/hr wage? Nor does socialism as a whole advocate elimination of the state and centralised power.
Liberalism can mean many things? Neoliberals, classical liberals? You’re gonna have to be specific because your generalisation (about like everything not just this) is really showing that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
China isn’t communist. They maybe used to be, but they’re state capitalist. Some leftists argue they’re more socialist, just trying to operate in a world that’s mostly capitalist, but I think power is too far divorced from the workers for that to be true.
@griffinstorme, open borders IS the abolishment of the state. If anyone on the planet can enter your country and receive its benefits, you no longer have a country. Which is still irrelevant to the topic, as a desire for the abolishment of the state is NOT a defining factor of left wing.
The EU is a governing body, which means that the nations within the EU are more vassal states than sovereign nations. Which is also still irrelevant to the topic of there being “no left wing in America”.
Socialism is the state destroyer. It annihilates the economy and devastates the growth of any nation that implements it.
I wasn’t generalizing about Liberalism, I was speaking generally. There’s a difference. I never defined what Liberalism is because that wasn’t the point. It’s still left wing. Neoliberals are left wing, as are classical Liberals, and both groups exist within the American political system.
None of which addresses your ridiculous claim that the USA has no left wing.
@griffinstorme, “the us is closely followed by China in medical r&d. So weird that they’re socialist.”
“they’re state capitalist. Some leftists argue they’re more socialist, just trying to operate in a world that’s mostly capitalist, but I think power is too far divorced from the workers for that to be true.”
You have now argued both that China is and is not socialist. I do not believe you understand what socialism is, which would explain your false claim that New Zealand is socialist. It’s not. You also very clearly do not know what left wing means, either.
As to your jab about me being obsessed with you, you called me out and then stopped responding when I took your horseshït claims and refuted them. It’s cowardly and I don’t like it when anyone does that. Idgaf about you, but if you’re going to talk shït like you know what you’re talking about and then make nonsensical and self contradicting claims at me, I’m going to call you out on it.
@griffinstorme, also, I waited two days before asking if you were going to respond. If you think that’s obsessive, I really don’t know what to tell you.
When I’m not actively on this app, I don’t think about you at all.
If you think this meme follows any sort of logical pattern then you are so far up the a$$ of corporatist propaganda that you are beyond help
@Professor Daddy, same to you if you don’t see the pattern. Just so far up the ass of far left biased media propaganda.
@Professor Daddy, They all blame a specific group of people for their problems. Logical enough for you?
Lmao I can’t wait for him to become president, everyone here benefit from his policies, and then you’ll still whine and cry about nonsense.
@griffinstorme, not for the same reasons, but that statement did make me laugh
@griffinstorme, if you think he’ll get elected, you are delusional. But I know you are, because you think his policies (the government giving people things) is a great idea.
It’s remarkable the difference in the grizzly bears in Yellowstone since they banned people feeding them... $1m says you don’t understand the correlation
@big freedom, $1m says humans and grizzly bears aren’t the same thing.
@griffinstorme, so you are incapable of seeing the correlation
@big freedom, I can tell your big brain self is just dying to explain your clever little analogy, so if you want to go ahead. I’m sure someone here will give you an upvote to make you feel valid.
@griffinstorme, nah. I don’t have the crayons or the patience to explain it to you. I’m sure if you try, you can get there on your own.
@griffinstorme, his point is that constant intervention breeds weakness. A government that provides everything to their populace with no effort required on their part will result in a populace that stagnates and rots rather than improves and progresses.
This is why Universal Income doesn’t work. When people don’t benefit meaningfully from hard work, they stop working and become indolent and lazy.
The correlation is that when the bears were fed by tourists, they became fat and lazy, and therefore unhealthy. When feeding them became prohibited, they returned to foraging and hunting, keeping themselves fit and helping them to survive better.
@big freedom, see my response to griffinstorme. Did I do a good job at reaching the point or did I misunderstand?
@I Are Lebo, nailed it
@I Are Lebo, this is why I think that the “progressives” are the most racist people on earth.
“If it weren’t for us and our benevolence, those poor brown people would starve to death on the streets. We must do everything for them. They couldn’t possibly survive without us.”
@big freedom, absolutely. That’s why they’re able to stand there with a straight face and argue that the high incarceration rate of blacks in America is entirely due to systematic racism, while ignoring every fact that shows that blacks disproportionately commit crimes. Or if they do acknowledge it, it’s because “black people are oppressed by society and lash out”. No acknowledgement whatsoever that blacks are capable of self determination and have full agency over whether or not they break the law.
They’re also hypocrites, because the same people will totally ignore the sentencing disparity between men and women, which is NOT based on personal actions, but rather on judge and jury biases.
@I Are Lebo, there’s a part of it that they get right, there is systemic racism - it just comes from the people that they think are “fighting for them”
The policies of the war on poverty are designed to keep poor people poor and therefore easier to convince to vote as a group. Ever notice how black conservatives or libertarians are seen as evil? “How could you go against our people?”.
People that think for themselves are hard to control. Getting the mob to move in one direction is way easier.
@big freedom, anybody who ever invoked the words “race traitor” is a PoS whose opinions should be immediately discounted as the bigot that they are.
Also, isn’t it interesting how all of the majority black democratic cities just sink into worse and worse conditions the longer they remain blue? And yet it’s the Democrats that support the blacks. Right.
Have you ever listened to Dinesh D’Souza? He has a lecture about how the Democrats were and continue to be the party of racism and he traces the entire lineage back to before Lincoln all the way to the present day to show a clear and unchanging pattern.
@I Are Lebo, I really like Dinesh. Jordan Peterson is great too. I like their pragmatic, logical approach. The only argument against them is screeching and shouting “racist, fascist”. The last gasp of the mental midget who doesn’t have a logical argument.
@big freedom, it bothers me to see people yelling fascist to try to shut down speech, while being totally blind to the irony.
@I Are Lebo, it is amazing. I was watching the Antifa thugs in Portland... they are begging for someone to come along and meet violence with violence. It’s fûcking terrifying
@big freedom, I watched Steven Crowder addressing the issue, and the dishonest reporting is just disgusting. CNN reported it as “mostly peaceful” while antifa shïtheads are literally attacking random passersby with hammers and bike locks, hours after the Proud Boys (who by all accounts committed no violence that wasn’t in direct self defence) had left.
There are so many media moguls parroting the line about all Trump supporters being racist white supremacists that these ignorant bigots genuinely think they’re justified in committing this kind of violence to anyone they can throw a “white supremacist” accusation at, which is literally anyone.
It is absolutely terrifying. The small comfort is that by and large, antifa mostly seems to be comprised of utterly incompetent people.
Politics in my funny!!!
@Kskronz, fist time on here?
If we're doing politics in here then I'd like to say once on this one comment section to say I really like Andrew Yang. If you are a Bernie or a Trump guy you should check out Yang too because he's attracting people from both camps.
Aaah America land of the free and of the deeply carved paranoia of socialism, comunism and co.
@80think08, sure. Just like being paranoid of live electrical wires, or mother grizzly bears. It’s right to be scared of things that can kill you in a miserable way.
@80think08, a paranoia is an irrational fear, so pushing back against socialism or communism isn't a paranoia. It's a way of maintaining the countries successful economic integrity.
@Dephenistrator, I can see you are very involved in politics and you are in the same boat as me. Hell yeah!!!!
@seeUpee, *high fives
I don't think any two people are completely identical in politics but it's always nice to find others that share common beliefs. Especially when our beliefs are treated as taboo by hateful people.
@Dephenistrator, man! I tell you what, I remember the trump wrist band and you happened to be the only person who had something positive to say about it. I am a die hard conservative republican foreigner who loves this country to death and would die for it if need it be. That been said, you are soooooo right! No two people are completely identical. I think you are one of the most educated person in this app. Seriously! I enjoy reading everything you have to say and I’m like dang! This guy is so hitting the bullseye with me is crazy. But you know what I like most about you? Is how strong you feel about your believes man! That is a hard quality to find now days! Too many fruitcakes changing their mind bc of people thinking against them. So keep it up!
@seeUpee, thanks, I'm not used to getting complimented so i don't know what to say. So many people do succumb to peer pressure, i do think that's a bad trend. i will change my mind if given good enough reasons but not from pressure or bad tempers. I think one of the biggest things i do wrong is i sound mad in text, or at least I'm told. I'm very blunt, so it comes off different on here. I am usually alot calmer than people think.
@Dephenistrator, I think what you think is “sound mad” is more like the strong believes you have. So be blunt!
@seeUpee, XD don't worry i don't think i can change that if I tried anyways. Hey if you have a steam account you can look me up under the same name with an avatar of gaara
@Dephenistrator, I do not have one :( you do have a friend request on Xbox tho
@seeUpee, i would reply but i have been locked out of that account for over a decade after they require a Microsoft password that i never set. I don't have any console subscriptions anymore unfortunately and consolidated to pc
@Dephenistrator, I hope you don’t think of me as one of the hateful people. For all of our disagreements I think you’re honest about what you believe and how you think and I think that’s the most important part of any debate. You seem to me to have integrity and that to me matters more than whether or not I agree with your position on any particular topic.
@I Are Lebo, nah don't worry, i don't think your hateful. I like your comments and even our debates with eachother. Civilized debate is so very rare these days. I enjoy that you use facts and refrain from lesser insults and that effected the way I debate years ago when I saw you do it. I consider you a good person, and enjoy our conversations.
@Dephenistrator, I sincerely appreciate that. I have a tendency to fly off the handle and that’s coloured my interactions with a lot of people.
@I Are Lebo, well, i think we all do that sometimes. You can be sharp but your still more composed than most. I think your standards are telling you to do better (which is a good thing) and that makes it hard to see that your carrying yourself pretty good for heated political debates compared to most.