Tis said to posses enough Fentanyl to kill a man 3 times over!
@ConfusedWhat, he mustve been a prophet
@Guy Fawkes, it could take out a whole army, just like a holy hand grenade
People on funny pics have been less political lately. Let's stir the pot.
also -@captain swordsman
and -@no you
@ThePandaPool , i disagree. Only people who believe like you have been less political. The rest of us SMART ONES have been MORE political. Wake up.
-some other idiot
@tbsrk, gotta say. I'm impressed as to how much you got me to cringe at that one.
@ThePandaPool , everyone who doesn’t believe the exact same things that I do is a Nazi
-yet another idiot
@I Are Lebo, And everyone who doesn’t agree with me is a Marxist.
- some idiot basically calling himself a Nazi
@Nellybert , that one doesn’t really work
@I Are Lebo, It’s the Internet, nothing works if you’re going to go and apply actual logical thought to it.
I mean, that's basically BLM's Turin Shroud or something.
I haven’t been staying up to date. Did he have Fentanyl in his system when he died?
@Jwells18, he swallowed all the fentanyl he had when the cops came up, so he wouldnt be arrested with it. The cities medical examiner said that is what killed him. Floyd's family hired 8 more medical examiners in order to find one that said the cops knee killed him and not the drugs.
@Jwells18, for context 2 milligrams of fentanyl can kill someone. Chauvin was likely a huge bastard, but he didn’t murder Floyd. He was sacrificed for the sake of the country.
@AverageIdiot, oh snap, the media really does twist things. Made him look like an upstanding citizen mercilessly killed by the big bad police
@Snarfel Burger, 1 milligram (mg) = 1,000 microgram (mcg). I give (IV) young, healthy adults 150 mcg, and their breathing slows significantly. 250 mcg (IV) in one dose, is often enough to slow someones breathing to a point they need assisted breathing. George Floyd died of a drug overdose: significant amt of fentanyl (11 ng/ml), morphine (more narcotic to slow breathing), and methamphetamines all in blood at time of death. Average death dose of fentanyl is about 10 ng/ml; drug addict George had 11 ng/ml, plus all the other drugs. He was saying he couldnt breathe long before he entered delirium and had to be restrained for safety of others. The dude was an addict, with his dealer, hiding/eating all the evidence when the cops showed up. He accidentally killed himself.
@Jwells18, As someone who watched the whole trial... He had fentanyl in his system, they found a meth and fentanyl pill with Floyd's saliva in the back of the police car and two intact pills in the Mercedes that Floyd was driving. Although the levels of fentanyl were within levels of people that had overdosed they were also at levels of people who are alive while on fentanyl. A pulmonologist, cardiologist, the medical examiner, chemist, pathologist, ER physician, etc, dismissed fentanyl as the cause of death stating that a death consistent with a fentanyl overdose would have manifested differently. The pulmonologist made a convincing case, based on Floyd's behavior, that he was fighting to position himself to breathe with great discomfort. That Floyd's position was the cause of his oxygen deprivation, not a just a suppressed respiratory system from the fentanyl. Chauvin was shown to be, beyond a reasonable doubt imo, a substantial cause in Floyd's death, AND Floyd was high AF.
@NotCaveJohnson, The medical examiner also said, if the police had found Floyd dead in his apartment he would have ruled it drug overdose. The prosecution’s ER physician admitted you can asphyxiate from drugs, the Pulmonologist made that assessment based off of the video and not an actual examination of Floyd (I heard several lawyers saying that’s never been done in court before), the use-of-force expert admitted Floyd was acting in a typical manner that wouldn’t have given him concern, and the DT instructor said Chauvin was using an approved hold because they showed most of the time his knee was on Floyd’s back and not his neck. It definitely wasn’t proven “beyond a reasonable doubt”
@Snarfel Burger, Yes, if other evidence did not exist another conclusion would have been made. But other evidence exists. Observing the behavior of Floyd, his anoxic seizure, his rat of decline in alertness,all are signs of wether or not he had an overdose.
I don't think he was convicted of the right charges, but Chaivin was without a doubt a substantial cause in Floyd's death. Wether he did it negligently or with malice, or evincing a dépravéd mind are different subjects. But that man was fighting to breath and Chauvins body weight was preventing him from doing so more effectively, even if the fentanyl was suppressing his respiratory system Chauvin accelerated the process.
@Who Nose, if Floyd's resperatory system was suppressed by fentanyl wouldnt that make him more susceptible to positional asphyxiation? Less weight and a broader range of positions can cause substantial reduction in effective breathing.
From 2,300 blood samples in fentanyl DUI cases from the last year the average fentanyl blood level of very alive drivers was close to 9.6 ng/ml, a quarter of people tested had 11 ng/ml or higher. Wasn't Floyd an addict? Wouldn't he have a tolerance? Not to mention adrenaline from the altercation countering the respratory suppression that was supposedly the sole cause of his death.
@NotCaveJohnson, It's been proven time and time again, the hold Chauvin had him in, doesn't kill people, even when applied for longer than Floyd was on the ground.
Floyd was complain about being unable to breathe before he was on the ground even.
It was the drugs, the other examiners never physically saw him.
The trial was botched, and an innocent man is in prison for a criminal who overdosed.
All of the officers were under pressure because of the bystanders yelling threats, and enclosing on them.
Floyd died of an overdose, and they couldn't help him, especially thanks to the bystanders. End of story.
@thatoneguymaybe, have you heard of Tony Timpa or Angelo Quinto. Showing that a similar situation is survivable doesn't mean it negates an occurance where it wasn't. Fentanyl DOES suupress the respiratory system, meaning the activation of his muscles relating to respiration require more effort than typical. Having a healthy and sober individual on a mat with weights on their back, or a barrel chested YouTuber having an intern kneel with both knees on their back, doesn't mean that Floyd wasn't clearly struggling to breath under the weight of Chauvin.
He also said he wasn't on anything. You know damn well you don't trust a damn thing Floyd said during that interaction. Much of it was likely theatrics to delay arrest.
I agree the trial was compromised, but that's from a jury stand point. From an evidentiary and trial based standpoint I think it was fine. Chauvin wasn't innocent. No police officer on the planet should be kneeling on a subject with no pulse.
@NotCaveJohnson, beyond reasonable doubt was not proven, and the jury was compromised; the trial was a farce of Justice. 11 ng/ml fentanyl, plus the other drugs, plus pre-existing health conditions: BEYOND reasonable doubt (hence intelligent people still talking about it today). Even taking his cytochrome P450 (tolerance) into consideration, that’s a $hitlo@d of drugs for drugged up George to have in his system. The jury got it wrong. Trial should have been held elsewhere, jurors should have been sequestered with no media; politicians should not have made public statements to influence the jury. Jurists came out afterwards stating fear for themselves and family if they didnt convict. A travesty is what was witnessed.
@Who Nose, I agree that the jury got it wrong, that the trial should have been had elsewhere, and jurors sequestered. but none of those things influence what was presented in court and what and how evidence was collected.
What's frustrating is this 11ng/ml. Lethal doses range from 5-120ng/ml in Hennepin county and people being treated with fentanyl for chronic pain have been shown to have concentrations of 9.9ng/ml. If all you had was a numbers then yes that's reasonable doubt. But we have more than just a number. If a fentanyl overdose manifests WITH symptoms X, Y, and Z, and there is nothing supporting that X, Y, and Z occured, in fact there's evidence that they didn't occur, then simply having the number is not sufficient to say he could have overdosed. Its not reasonable to say he could have overdosed. Or in this case to say Chauvins actions would have had no effect on when or if Floyd asphyxiated.
@NotCaveJohnson, You seem to enjoy overlooking the fact that you cannot expect someone, officer or not in that situation to be fully aware of everything happening to the criminal below, while being threatened by bystanders, and leading a group of much less experienced men.
He used what he was taught, and should not be held accountable for something he can't know.
If we allow an injustice like this to happen, why have laws at all?
You hold a man guilty for doing what he was trained to do, what he has done many times, and for not knowing what ran through the criminals veins, as they waited for the ambulance. Despicable.
@thatoneguymaybe, I'm not overlooking the crowd. 🤦♂️ Yes, the crowd unknowingly contributed to the situation and prevented other potentially life saving actions from being taken. Regardless, Lane pointed out "I think he's passing out", "Roll him on his side?" Officer Keung said "I can't find one" after checking for a pulse. A reasonable officer would at that moment be aware, thanks to the observations of his colleagues, that they are sitting on an unresponsiveness suspect with no pulse. This is indefensible. Everything before this had some reasonableness, but when Keung said he couldn't find a pulse it didn't. Chauvin was twisting Floyd's wrist and squeezing his knuckles up until they put him on a stretcher. That is definitionally excessive force. They're trained to reassess, they're trained for the recovery position. Doing so is no compromise in safety or security, and potentially life saving. Even taking into account the traffic and the crowd, it's terrible judgment. Despicable.
@NotCaveJohnson, 4 minutes of him struggling, and complaining, he could breathe.
We hear right about minute 1:52 before they got off of him, over the radio it's announced he is still breathing, which was in communication with EMS, and Dispatch.
I haven't seen any footage or audio of them checking the pulse, and getting an answer.
For the majority of the time he was down, he was breathing, he was talking.
If he was dying by being unable to breathe, why did it take so long?
Do I think they were on him too long, absolutely from my shoes.
But you live your life as a cop, and be trained to do something, then get in trouble for doing it.
Do you understand why police are resigning, and leaving in droves?
Because cops get charged, and called murderers over something like this.
The entire Portland Rapid Response Unit just resigned, because one of their officers got indicated over an interaction in a violent riot with Antifa.
Nobody is willing to do their job, and get put in jail, or worse.
@thatoneguymaybe, if you watch the body cam from Officer Kueng, at time stamp 20:25:50 Keung is checking Floyd's pulse and then says "I can't find one" and Chauvin is heard saying "uh huh". You can also see how Chauvin is holding Floyd's hand.
Kueng checks multiple times after that, and it looks like Officer Lane did too. But Lane is trying to check for a pulse at Floyd's ankle.
When I look at this I can hear coconuts.
As a cop, I believe Chauvin was extremely negligent. Officers have a duty to care for those in their custody. But it's the fentanyl that killed Mr Floyd.
@RogueKnight, did in you watch Dr. Tobin's testimony? And the testimony of most of the medical professionals saying a fentanyl overdose doesn't fit the totality of evidence? So for me, this might be pretty close to withholding an epi pen from someone going into anaphylaxis. Or to be more analogous, sitting on them and preventing them from accessing an epi-pen. Sure it was the snorting of peanuts (speedball) that triggered the anaphylaxis (suppressed respiratory system), but positional asphyxiation AND preventing treatment are still volitional acts causing/accelerating/ensuring death. He was high AF, but he didn't overdose. If you mean it contributed to his behavior leading to that situation then sure I'd agree with that.
@NotCaveJohnson, see Who Nose comment here about the fentanyl.
Those medical professionals were all hired by one particular side of the issue to say one particular thing. I do not believe their statements were accurate. A couple of them were basically politicians at this stage and no longer doctors. I truly believe that politics got in the way of the truth. If I remember correctly one doctor even initially said it was fentanyl and then later changed his statement.
With what I saw the officer do on video there is no way that left any permanent damage. It was not enough pressure applied.
@RogueKnight, Negligent? He had the authority to use a Taser instead of detaining him, but he personally knew Floyd prior to the incident and chose less force, then was being screamed at and surrounded by passersby with mostly new recruits as backup while Mr Floyd died slowly to his overdose while begging for his mother; at what point in this stressful situation was he negligent to Mr Floyd, his fellow officers, himself, or the onlookers??
@jcmatanui204, he had the authority to use a taser instead of detaining him? That is an extremely ignorant statement. People are always detained after you use a taser on them. You don't use a taser on someone that you're not trying to detain.. And I've detained interested people that I knew from prior calls for service and such. Neither one of those points has anything to do with what happened. Yes it was a stressful situation. There was an uncooperative proud gathering that the officers had to manage and pay attention to. Where the officer was negligent was in his duty to render aid and care for the person that was in his custody. When someone's in the custody of a police officer that officer has a duty to render aid in the event of a medical emergency. The person detained is in our care. And they cannot be denied medical aid just because we have them detained. That is where the negligence comes into play. Other officers were telling Chauvin to check on Mr Floyd and he refused to .
@jcmatanui204, And also regarding the taser. Many agencies across the country, space including mine, want officers to consider if the person is under the influence before using a taser. Due to the stress that drugs and alcohol can put on the human body, Especially during times of physical exertion like a fight, and other health issues that drugs can cause they really don't want us using a taser on people who are obviously under the influence. They prefer we go hands-on to detain the subject.
@jcmatanui204, he was kneeling on a corpse for 3 minutes. Signified by the anoxic seizrue which he ISNT trained to identify, and his lack of pulse which he IS trained to identify) Officer Lane suggested a recovery position twice, and Chauvin dismissed the suggestion. Negligence. When he stopped being responsive things should have changed. They were trained to reassess.
@RogueKnight, see my response to Who Nose.
From 2,300 blood samples in fentanyl DUI cases from the last year, the average fentanyl blood level was close to 9.6 ng/ml, a quarter of people tested had 11 ng/ml or higher. Floyd was an addict likely with a tolerance.
Having that level in his system does not mean he DID overdose, it simply means he could. Coupled with the over evidences, he likely didn't.
Was fentanyl a necessary ingredient in Floyd's death in that manner in that point in time? Sure. But was Chauvin's body weight and knee position... IMO, based on the testimony of the medical experts (I have a masters in biomedical engineering), yes. And certainly the delay in getting medical attention by kneeling on a subject with no pulse ensured his fate. I considered the testimonies of most of the medical professionals to be genuine and accurate. Even taken with a pinch of salt for bias and other self interested motivations.
@NotCaveJohnson, All but one of the Medical Examiners didn't see the physical body. That discredits them.
Most were no longer really doctors, and really just politicians. That discredits them.
He had more than fentanyl in his system, and it was the combination, as well as the amounts that lead to his death.
All of the evidence points to him overdosing.
People have repeated what happened, with the same size people, a d body weight(minus the drugs), and in that position, it does not prevent breathing.
Plus, he complained he couldn't breathe long before.
If you truly are a biomedical engineer, the you should know that studying a subject requires knowing everything about it.
You are missing some key information about what happened, or willfully ignoring it.
@thatoneguymaybe, what was there to see from the body? The medical examiner meticulously documented the autopsy but there wasn't much to see. Scrapes on his nose from shoving into the pavement to breath better, and scrapes on his shoulder from rotating his torso to breath better. He was dissected and sectioned, that can only be done once. They had access to his blood the medical examiners report and photos.
The evidence includes the video. His alertness, his respiratory rate, his coherence, his position, his actions while conscious, his anoxic seizure after loosing consciousness. That's all evidence. 🤦♂️
I'm incorporating ALL the evidence. The only thing that would discredit them is holding a position incompatible with anatomy and physiology. You're literally dismissing medical experts because they were called by the prosecutions yet your calling me out for cherry picking? Talk about projection.
@thatoneguymaybe, if all but one medical expert can be dismissed, according to you, becuase they didn't see the body then Dr. Baker's testimony is gospel, right? Here are some of his quotes from the trial.
"In my opinion, the law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression was just more than Mr. Floyd could take by virtue of those heart conditions..."
"So my opinion remains unchanged. It's what I put on the death certificate last June. That's cardiopulmonary arrest, complicating law enforcement subdual restraint and neck compression. That was my top line then and it would stay my top line now."
"Yes, I would still classify it as a homicide [a volitional act resulting in death] today"
You have some cognitive dissonance, dude. He was a contributing cause of Floyd's death. That's only one element of the charges, but it was satisfied... repeatedly.
@NotCaveJohnson, You do know what homicide means for a medical examiner, right?
You now how it compares to the criminal code definition of homicide, right?
He may have contributed, but not due to any intention, or negligence.
Let's say he did cause an accelerated death.
He is trained to use that technique for restraining someone. He isn't taught to only use it if they aren't high out of their minds.
He isn't taught to restrain them after giving them a blood test to know what they have in their system.
He may learn to identify someone on drugs, but he can't know what, and how much.
His job is to get him into custody, and let the rest be sorted out. He is supposed to care for the ones he arrests to the best of his abilities.
If he has no good help, and a crowd of bystanders yelling threats, he cannot be expected to perform perfectly, nor to know things he cannot know about the criminal in his custody.
@NotCaveJohnson, The problem with other medical examiners coming in afterwards, and looking at it after being hired by the opposition, is twofold.
First, they are hired by a biased party, (eight in fact I believe), which if need be to get eight people(Not all of whom are current, respected doctors), just so you can get someone to agree with you, isn't a solid case.
Second, when they do not see the evidence firsthand, they don't get the full picture. There is much to be learned from seeing such evidence in person, that photos will not help with.
Some can be viewed after the fact, but not everything.
I'm even willing to think the other examiners harbored no ill will to Chauvin.
But they cannot claim negligence, for someone who does not have the situation to obtain the knowledge in the moment.
Dont let your cognitive dissonance cloud your mind, open it up a bit, and consider all possibilities, before you open your mouth.
@thatoneguymaybe, yes homicide means voltional act causing death. It doesn't mean criminal intent, just causal link. They explained that in court.
@thatoneguymaybe, you seem to be under the impression that medical experts had any say in the criminality of someone's actions. There function here was to discuss explanations about what caused death. What is and is not physiologically plausible, likely, or certain. Not that it was because chauvin did something outside of his training. Even if that technique is mostly for putting people in cuffs, and nowhere is it taught to continue that technique on a non-resisting and pulseless subject already in handcuffs, but sure there's reasonable doubt for some elements of the charges
Excluding EMS here are the states medical experts: Dr. Langford (Provided care to Floyd at hosptial), Dr. Smock (ER physician), Dr. Isenchmid (Forensic toxicologist, lab did blood work for autopsy), Dr. Tobin (Pulmonologist), Dr. Baker (medical examiner, autopsy), Dr. Thomas (Former medical examiner, trained Dr. Baker), Dr. Rich (Cardiologist).
Here are the Defense's :
Dr. Fowler (retired forensic pathologist).
@thatoneguymaybe, to be specific there was only one medical examiner. But I'll assume you refer to medical expert witnesses as medical examiners.
The medical experts never claimed negligence. They can't. They talked about Floyd's physiology and anatomy. What caused cardiopulmonary arrest? According to them... A lack of oxygen. Does a fentanyl overdose match with this conclusion? Yes, but we have video of Floyd's final moments of consciousness which doesn't. Fentanyl overdoses are associated with drowsiness, Bluish tint to nails and lips, weak muscles, slowed breathing, confusion, etc...
His last words I could hear were "please, I can't breath" and 30 seconds later he had an anoxic seizure. So he's conscious, aware of his symptoms, articulating this, and within seconds loses consciousness. Floyd was turning his nose into the pavement to straighten his neck, and putting his hand on the pavement and tire to open his chest...
@thatoneguymaybe, ... In other words Floyd's position inhibited effective breathing and his efforts to breath more effectively were counteracted by the subdual and restraint of the officers. His ability to breath may have been compromised by fentanyl, but his position and Chauvin's body weight had a deleterious effect on Floyd's ability to continue breathing.
This is independent of whether or not Chauvin was criminally liable. It only relates to the claim that Floyd overdosed or that Chauvin was innocent or blameless. Neither of those are true. Is Chauvin "not guilty" of some of the charges he was facing? Perhaps. But was he innocent? Hell no. A recovery position was more than warranted after he became unresponsive and no pulse could be found while still in cuffs. No restraint techniques are appropriate for a corpse.
Stop tying medical experts to Chauvins negligence. They don't speak to that. They never spoke to that. Only what contributed to Floyd's death.
@NotCaveJohnson, They use the determination of how he died to make the charges. So if they say, he didn't die from the obnoxious amount of drugs in his system, that was killing him already, and that it was because of Chauvin accelerated it. They are indicating he killed him by negligence, in the eyes of everyone.
If they said, him being restrained, didn't help the situation with him already overdosing, and may have accelerated his death, but he probably would not have survived anyway.
That doesn't imply that Chauvin had a fault, beyond an accidental acceleration.
So by your words, Chauvin's crime is that he didn't put him in a recovery position?
@NotCaveJohnson, Which if you paid attention to what I have been saying this whole time, is not a good argument. Because he had far too much pressure on him, from the lack of experiences officers, and the threatening bystanders keeping him from being able to focus on Floyd much.
He should not be charged with a crime for being in an impossible situation, and a criminal dying from an overdose, causing him to die while in restraint.
Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe when he was being pushed into the cop car, why would they believe him crying wolf on the ground?
@NotCaveJohnson, Lack of oxygen was not the cause of death, as stated by the autopsy report. Only later did the other medical experts claim it was different.
It was stated by the examiner that he died from the drugs in his system, not ashpixiation.
Bringing in someone else, just so you get the answer you want, isn't science.
It was made clear they needed a scape goat, they made Chauvin the scape goat.
They worded things in a particular manner during court, so that people would see him as guilty of killing Floyd.
Thats why we are not happy.
@thatoneguymaybe, I'm sorry you don't understand physiology. A fentanyl overdose inhibits the resperatory leading to a lack of oxygen and ultimately death. The brain, heart and lungs being deprived of oxygen is the mechanism of most causes of death. If your heart can't beat it can't supply oxygenated blood to your brain and lungs and you die. if you choke you can't exchange CO2 and oxygen leading to a build up of CO2 and your brain heart and lungs are deprived of O2 and you die. Carbon monoxide sticks to the hemoglobin and prevents oxygen delivery to your heart lungs and brain and you die.
Lack of oxygen is how a fentanyl overdose manifests. If you want to assert it wasn't a lack of oxygen you're saying it wasn't a fentanyl overdose.
@thatoneguymaybe, I'm sorry you also don't understand how a court works. You call in specialist and expert witnesses to address areas that require additional knowledge to properly assess. Dr. Fowler was the defense's ONLY medical expert and the prosecutors witness were called to counter Fowlers testimony. Where were the defense's expert witnesses? Where Was the argument for a fentanyl overdose. No, instead they made arguments for carbon monoxide poisoning.
Dr. Baker was THE medical examiner. Consulting a specialist in cardiology or pulminoligy to refine conclusions is not the cherry picking you think it is.
Don't worry guys, it was just a non-lethal trained restraint technique that killed him, not the drugs. *wink* *wink*
but don’t worry guys bill cosby got a mistrial
( ._.) ᵒʰ
Twas a speed ball