@Grand Champion, *draws from cigarette*
@Cliff Racer, ecig with fake smoke?
@Grand Champion, Wrex
Fvck you, Illusive Man. And your sexy, sexy voice!
Getting on first Mars capsule like getting on Santa Maria with Columbus. We so ded.
Can someone explain to me the reference? Im out of this loop
@PunnyBaker, the Illusive Man is a morally ambiguous character in the game Mass Effect 2. He has access to almost unlimited funds and technology and is zealous in his pursuit to make sure humanity rules over the other alien species.
@Cliff Racer, if you take a critical eye to his actions (as opposed to his words) you find that he is not ambiguous at all. He’s just evil.
If we take everything that happens in all three games at face value, dismissing the Indoctrination theory, then at an unexplained point between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, the Illusive Man became indoctrinated by the reapers. I’m willing to bet that he did not start augmenting his own troops (as seen in Mass Effect 3) until after he was indoctrinated, as before then he’d have realized how foolish putting reaper tech into his soldiers is. He’s all about humanity, and they weren’t human anymore.
But some of the things he did before then were inexcusable. There’s a good reason why Cerberus is considered a terrorist organization by the Citadel. He’s blown up occupied buildings, employs assassins, and commits espionage regularly.
He’s always been a xenophobe, as evidenced by the graphic novels, and he has no issue with killing
humans if he can justify it to himself.
Still, I’m disappointed that you can never kill him and he can only ever die by his own hand. That was a failure of game design in my opinion.
@I Are Lebo, those are great points for him being evil but I'm not sure about the indoctrination theory. He was super fired up about keeping the collector base in ME2 for the reaper tech and he wouldn't seem the type to hesitate augmenting and then sacrificing those humans (who are barely human anymore anyway) for the good of humanity as a whole. I'll have to play ME3 again though because it's starting to get fuzzy, I can't even remember if the decision to destroy the collector base had an impact in ME3 or not.
@Cliff Racer, also Mars is where we discover our first Prothean Beacon.
@Cliff Racer, unfortunately, it did not. The only difference in Mass Effect 3 from the final decision of Mass Effect 2 is whether the optional boss you can face in 3 is the proto reaper brain or the proto reaper heart, and the in game difference between the two is negligible. Plus, the enemy is easy to miss facing at all.
Which crew members survive the suicide mission has far more of an impact in the final game, as many missions are only available if the associated crew member survived. In addition, the best conclusions to the inner species strife is only possible with key survivors.
The very possibility of peace between the Quarians and the Geth is only an option if both Tali and Legion survive the suicide mission with Legion not being turned over to Cerberus.
The genophage storyline’s best ending (genophage cured, Krogan species led by Wrex and Eve as allies to the galaxy) can only be accomplished if Wrex and Mordin survive, and if you keep the intel from Mordin’s loyalty mission.
The unfortunate truth about Mass Effect is that very few of the choices the player is presented with actually matter.
Who you appoint to the council at the end of ME1 is mostly irrelevant. Whether you go paragon or renegade is irrelevant to the overarching plot. Whether or not you cooperate with Cerberus over the course of ME2 doesn’t matter. Oddly enough, the largest choice given with the greatest effect on the game is who you choose to romance.
The survival of the following characters also matters surprisingly little (unless they are involved in a romance with Shepard): Ashley, Kaiden, Grunt, Samara, Morinth, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Thane, and Zaeed.
The choice between Ashley and Kaiden in ME1 seems profound at the time, but the survivor follows the same role regardless, with the only special note being that Kaiden in ME3 becomes one of the only possibilities for a homosexual male romance in the franchise. Their actions and personalities in ME2 and ME3 are nearly identical.
A quick edit. In my original post I wrote that Kasumi’s death didn’t affect much, and I was wrong. If Kasumi dies or is not recruited in Mass Effect 2, or if the player does not respond to her call in time, in Mass Effect 3 she will fail to stop a high ranking and indoctrinated Hanar from sabotaging their home planets defence systems, leading to the extinction of both the Hanar and the Drell at the hands of the Reapers.
@Cliff Racer, as a side note, the indoctrination theory I was referencing is the theory that Commander Shepard himself has been indoctrinated during or before the events of Mass Effect 3, leading to the conclusion that some or even all of the events of Mass Effect 3 were not real. The theory has some valid points, but I still don’t really buy it. It seems like bad writing or hasty development is a more likely culprit for some of the plot holes in the game.
It is not really up to question whether or not the Illusive Man has been indoctrinated, the third game straight up confirms it. That’s why he was unable to take control of the Reapers, having already tried (hence why he is all burnt in the final encounter). As the Starchild says “he could not control us because we already controlled him”.
@that crazy Marine, did humanity discover the Prothean archives first or the Charon Relay first?
@I Are Lebo, if you play renegade you get to bust a cap in his ass on the citadel at the very end. It was...satisfying for my Bjtch Shepard
@Mr Sarcastic, really? I was not aware of that. But then, I’ve never done a full renegade trilogy run before. Mass Effect 1 and 2 has fun/mean stuff you can do as a renegade, but Mass Effect 3 full renegade Shepard is a freaking genocidal maniac.
If you do everything wrong in ME3 you can cause the extinction of a whopping six species.
@I Are Lebo, yeah it was great. I just finished a renegade play through and I felt so awful about the bad things I was doing. But it was also really funny sometimes. Luckily the only extinction I caused was for the krogan (didn’t cure the genophage) and the rachni (killed the queen) unless you count the reapers as a species then I killed all of them with the destroy ending
@Mr Sarcastic, you can also kill the Hanar, the Drell, the Quarians, and the Geth. I don’t count the Reapers because they technically aren’t a species.
@Mr Sarcastic, the first time I played through ME3, Tali killed herself and I threw my controller into the wall. Then I abandoned the playthrough and started over from the beginning.
@I Are Lebo, to be fair you do have to choose between the geth or the quarians, unless I suppose you killed the quarians and then chose the destroy ending. Oh shoot I guess I also killed the geth but they never mentioned it so it’s fine everything’s fine the quarians are fine...
@I Are Lebo, relay
@Cliff Racer, Augmenting his soldiers with reaper tech was also a matter of practicality. With Henry Lawson's help, he'd subverted the Reaper control signal, ensuring the indoctrinated troops would be unflinchingly loyal. It also allowed him to turn a refugee into a perfect soldier in days, as Edi pointed out in the Cerberus base.
@Mr Sarcastic, you can make peace between the Quarians and the Geth by sacrificing Legion. Considering it dies no matter what happens, it’s not much of a sacrifice.
@FalconHalo, while this is true, it’s also unquestionably evil. It’s total enslavement.
@I Are Lebo, yeah i always make peace with them. I don’t think I could ever bring myself to commit genocide like that even in a game. Or betray my pals legion or tali
@Mr Sarcastic, Tali was always my favourite character. I have a 9” figure of her in my collection.
@I Are Lebo, Same! She’s my favorite romance.
@Mr Sarcastic, the only reason I ever played as male Shepard was to romance her. I kinda wish femshep could’ve had a thing with her, but it’s cute how if Shepard doesn’t romance either of them, Tali and Garrus eventually hook up.
@I Are Lebo, totally agree. if I had to choose one squadmate for her to end up with that wasn’t Shepard it’s definitely garrus.
@Mr Sarcastic, this is my problem with mass effect. I’m a huge fan of the series and absolutely adore the lore and universe set up. But EA has fücked with the game over and over again, and it’s difficult sometimes to get past the boneheaded mistakes. Tali’s picture being a slightly edited google image was such an insult to the character and her fans.
I really would have liked her to have an actual face.
@I Are Lebo, I'm not denying that it's evil. I intended this to be further evidence for how evil he is. The bottom line is everything to him, no matter who gets trampled in the process.
@FalconHalo, I consider that evil. There’s a difference between evil and malevolence. Reality doesn’t really work like bad drama, the bad guy isn’t the psychopathic mastermind going “MUAHAHAHA!!!” in the shadows, it’s the guy who suppresses or is lacking a conscience who will do anything to accomplish his goals.
The ends do not justify the means when the means run counter to the principles. The Illusive Man claims to be all about humanity, but he completely fails to preserve the primary tenants of what it means to be human. He has on many occasions done things that benefit Cerberus as an organization to the detriment of humanity as a whole. For instance, kidnaping civilians and forcibly turning them into shock troopers that he sacrifices without hesitations or regret.
He is able to ignore the small picture by focusing on the big picture and by doing so commits mass scale slaughter. For instance, in the case of the Horizon colony. He set that colony up to be hit by the Collectors.
He even had their guns disabled beforehand. That’s pretty evil. A possibly necessary evil, but is still evil.
@I Are Lebo, While he is unquestionably rotten, he didn't start out that way. The comic series Evolution reveals a great deal of his origin. He started Cerberus in response to the encroaching Reapers. He learned of them through a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated and partially husked people. After coming into indirect contact with it (the energy jumped into him from someone else) he transformed partially, gaining his iconic eyes but retaining his free will. He heard the Reapers through the augments, telling him that humanity's fate was inevitable. Interestingly, Saren got his augments in the same way, though he was exposed to more of the energy than the Illusive Man, transforming him further and, notably, indoctrinating him sooner. The Illusive Man's fate as an unwitting agent of the Reapers was sealed well before they arrived, even before Sovereign attempted to take the Citadel.
@FalconHalo, that’s a fair point. His ‘evilness’ isn’t really his fault.
I truly belive that one day Elon will be the Jesus of the Mars population