just some wholesomeness
I really look forward to seeing what the dynamic between Nebula and Stark will be like in End Game
@ConteStick, I’m really looking forward to people shutting up about Opportunity and not talking about it as if it was an individual. It was a preprogrammed drone that did not posses even the most rudimentary form of a mind.
Mourning Opportunity is like mourning a broken satellite. It’s an expensive and advanced piece of technology, but that’s all it is.
@ConteStick, but yeah, End Game is gonna be awesome.
@I Are Lebo, people treat roombas like little house dogs. Some people name their plants. Humans will pack bound with just about anything that will respond to them. Talking about a drone like an individual is nothing new or crazy. "Mourning" is a but silly, but I think celebrating the rovers lifetime achievements makes sense. It's easier to apply the emotion to a single rover than the team of engineers behind it.
What IS stupid are these people haven't thought about Opportunity in years. Like, oh, now that the rovers gone I can get some easy likes by saying how "I totally always thought Oppy was the greatest" they don't talk about all the cool science, or crazy weather it endured. They just say it's so sad that the rover sang happy birthday to itself every year
@wynaut, anthropomorphizing non human things is just human nature. I’m talking about the emotional reaction. This isn’t even like Tom Hanks in Castaway, it’s more like the audience members screaming at the damn volleyball.
That is indeed stupid. Never underestimate the shallowness and idiocy of humans.
I’m not worried about robots taking over and killing us all. What’s far more likely is affordable robot companions that are better than human companions in every way and the human race going extinct because most of us stop fücking anything but robots.
@I Are Lebo, the government's will try and step in, if they can act fast enough. I don't think making them illegal would work, but giving incentives to have kids might.
China's got a big population problem on the horizon, and they've started giving hide incentives to have kids. China's issue is that people just don't want kids. They grew up in single child households and either think that's the correct number of kids to have, or just don't want to bother.
I certainly don't have a solid solution, but watching what happens in China the next few years may be a good indicator on what issues we'll face and what does or doesn't work
@wynaut, if you could have a holodeck from Star Trek that never malfunctioned, with a replicator inside it, would you ever leave your house again? Because I know I wouldn’t. Not really anything to incentivize there except the removal of the holodeck, and that wouldn’t end well for anyone involved.
@I Are Lebo, but you still have to deal with the world outside your holodeck. Even if you got food delivered, and the bathroom worked, you still gotta deal with the outside. Money will still matter, still have to buy the food, electricity. If nothing else, there will be taxes. War and violence will also affect you, even if you ignore it or are unaware. Fahrenheit 451 is a good example if this.
Frankly, I'd get bored on a holodeck. Sure they're neat, but give me enough time and the illusion will be just that. I know the holodeck is a perfect illusion, but I'll know it's an illusion. I think there were a few episodes from star trek that tackled getting lost in the holodeck, I just remember picard saying it's nice, but ultimately worthless to live in a simulation.
@ConteStick, 20 bucks says she threatens to stab/attack him 6 times
@I Are Lebo, I really hope you're right. It seems the whole plot revolves around Captain Marvel, and Brie Larsen has been making an a$$ out of herself. If you have an alternate perspective, I'd be happy to hear it.
@wynaut, if you have a holodeck and a replicator, you have infinite resources and so do not have to deal with the outside world at all. Perhaps you aren’t as familiar with Star Trek as I assumed. Once replicators exist money is obsolete, and unless your house gets bombed or you get drafted, external conflicts are also irrelevant.
If you’re getting bored on a holodeck, you’re using it wrong. The holodeck contains all of reality and then some. Once your virtual companions and environments are good enough, the line between ‘real’ and ‘not real’ goes away.
It’s the problem of hard solipsism. If every sensory input tells you what you’re experiencing is real, then it’s indistinguishable from reality. If you were knocked out outside of a holodeck and were then placed inside before waking, unless the holodeck malfunctioned or was used inappropriately, you’d never know you were in a simulation.
@Empshok, no, I agree. Brie’s been a real cunt on social media. But she’s an actress, not the actual Captain Marvel, and I think that Marvel Studios under Disney have earned the benefit of the doubt.
I really doubt they’d invest this much time and money into the MCU to throw it all away at the finish line by trying to hamfist in neoliberalist ideology in Endgame.
Most of the problems with Black Panther were about the behind the scenes stuff with the movie, not in the movie itself. I’m betting Captain Marvel will be no different.
@BigJohnson86, no bet. That’s like betting Hulk will smash things or Spider-Man will make jokes.
@I Are Lebo, but hulk didn’t smash in the last avengers. Banner smashed
@BigJohnson86, you've got a point there.
@I Are Lebo, well, a lot of entertainment companies have been making poor judgments of their fan bases lately. Activision/Blizzard,l with Diablo Immortal, youtube with their latest rewind...I'm sure there are other examples, but I can't really remember. Anyway, you make some good points, really. And I hope Marvel and Disney are smart enough to respect their fans.
I liked Black Panther, and I didn't feel like it was racist at all. It really could have been, but it wasn't imo. They really do have a LOT riding on Captain Marvel, so unless they desperately need to send a message discouraging this whole "fvck white men" movement (cuz it'll crash their company) you're absolutely right.
@BigJohnson86, Hulk did try smashing Thanos, he was just unsuccessful. And he wasn’t in the rest of it, not really.
@I Are Lebo, to be fair we all wanted to be smashed by purple thicc boi
@Empshok, I’m surprised you forgot about Gillette. But yeah, a lot of companies are making the mistake of thinking internet culture is the same thing as mainstream culture. They’re submitting to the exactly worst people to submit to because there is no pleasing an SJW. The only situation they will see as acceptable is utopia, because that’s what they compare everything to.
@BigJohnson86, in all honesty, I’d have sided with Thanos.
@I Are Lebo, I'll admit I'm not a huge trekkie, but I do know it supposed to be a perfect simulation. The issue I have with it is more the philosophy and the issue of self worth. Maybe bored wasn't the right word, but empty.
Coincidentally, a bombing like you mentioned happens in Fahrenheit 451.
The replicator and holodeck will still need some sort of power/fuel to keep them running. Even if you had your own generator strong enough for both machines, you'd need to arrange for generator fuel from the outside. It can't just replicate without something fueling it, that'd be breaking physics.
Plus, replicators wouldn't make money obsolete, unless we got to a utopian state where everyone had one and power was simply provided as a community good. The cooperation required to get there would almost be more amazing than the holodeck. And if as you suggest people become willfully trapped in there own worlds, humans die off and maybe "there will come soft rains" becomes reality.
@I Are Lebo, i think my biggest issue is your approaching this with the perspective that holodecks and replicators already exist and are established, but I'm thinking about what would happen if they were introduced to our world now.
They would be amazing, but would be toys for the rich, and could potentially create a bigger socioeconomic divide as those with the money work to influence the powers that be to keep them safe in their boxes, still very concerned about the outside world for fear of facing it again. They would definitely create some very rich inventors, a replicator could very easily be kept hidden by a coorp for monetary gain. Even if they were publicly available, I don't think most people would be able to afford them, let alone power them. And if anyone is in the outside world, I think there could be reason to care/worry about the world.
Either way, I did not expect this conversation when I replied last night. It has been fun
@wynaut, the fundamental problem about having a holodeck and a replicator (the assumption about them being powered seems self explanatory to me. If you didn’t have the sci fi power source they wouldn’t be functional) is that it is indistinguishable from reality. It would not be an empty experience because it would be extremely easy to forget it wasn’t real if you set up your scenario properly.
I’m assuming they’d come with the tech to keep them powered because the entire combined power output of Hoover Dam wouldn’t be enough to power one holodeck. It would be like getting a lightsaber without the technology to manufacture your own power cells. That toy isn’t going to last long. Generator fuel won’t help you.
Replicators absolutely will make money obsolete because anything you need to buy you can replicate and anything you want to sell you can replicate. You can not have a money based economy with infinite resources. It simply doesn’t function.
That is what I was implying, that if we
had the technology, we would abandon reality for fantasy and then in all probability die off. Your holodeck girlfriend is going to be far better than a real one can be, and if you replicate a hologram emitter, she can even leave the holodeck with you.
It’s just a hypothetical. I understand that they’re still science fiction and may always be so.
That is a valid point. If holodecks were restricted to the uber rich, there wouldn’t be the issues of humanity dying off, but at the same time, far fewer wealthy people will be influencing society to their own ends, so it’s a bit of a trade off.
All I know is if I had even just a game system like in Ready Player One, let alone a holodeck, my entire life would be centred around it because reality sucks.
@I Are Lebo, yeah, if energy wasn't a concern, society could be at a point where money is obsolete, at least in its current use.
I still think that knowing that they're in a simulation will keep people conscious of the real world. Not everyone, but some people who my previous worth arguement rings true.
I do fully agree that life would revolve around holodecks, what you do in them and out of them. Finding romance outside of a simulation would probably be a big thing, because it would be "valid." "Better than a simulation" or "just simulate it" could be common phrases. Products might try to appeal to their realness on order to compete. With how much the first world revolve around media, I agree that like in ready player one, life would revolve around it.
@I Are Lebo, And on the tech side, a real holodeck will just be science fiction unless we can create "hard light". Perfect VR like sword art online is a strech until we understand brain signals much more deeply and can interact with them, both reading and writing.
If I remember the book correctly, the vr from ready player one was pretty realistic, if still a ways off. That's probably our best bet this century.
@wynaut, you’re getting hung up on the wrong part of the hypothetical. It was just if you had access, you’re reading far too much into it and are thus completely missing the point.
It’s not about the technological ramifications but the societal ramifications. If you can have access to something better than reality in every perceivable way, ‘realness’ is going to stop mattering to most.
@I Are Lebo, I guess I am far more interested in what a these would mean for technology than society. If we're at that point with technology I'm far more interested in what we haven't discovered or can't imagine. Things you couldn't recreate because you wouldn't know where to start. It'd be pointless to 'discover' such a thing in a simulation, because if it's not real you can't learn anything from it. An exaggeration of course, fiction can be a wonderful tool for exploring and explaining, but a rng computer generation doesn't correlate to the real world.
Bleh, that's a lot of philosophy-ish talk
I get your argument and point. If we were stuck on earth, I'd hole up too. I guess I'd rather have a warp drive
@wynaut, i would be interested in discussing that topic as well but I was attempting to illustrate a human flaw in that when given the opportunity, most of us will take the easy path, especially if it’s also enjoyable.
I disagree about exploration being discouraged by fantasy. If anything, I’d argue the opposite. I’d be a hell of a lot more likely to be an explorer when it’s NOT a miserable experience almost guaranteed to bring death. I think it’s been long enough since the pioneers that we’ve forgotten how absolutely awful life is for explorers. We will learn this message again once we start setting up colonies on Mars. The unfortunate reality is that in all likelihood, but the time the second colony is built on Mars the first one will have already died. The first generation of Mars colonists will advance mankind immeasurably. But the cost will be their horrible deaths. Every single one of them.
Exploration doesn’t have to be randomly generated in a holodeck. As long as the area has been mapped, you could explore the real world. On top of that, you could do so with varying levels of risk. You could go hunting without there being an ethical concern to it. You could go skydiving without risk to your health. You could climb Mount Everest. With Batman. Any level of fantasy to reality can be accomplished in a holodeck. You could play through a Superman story, as Superman, where you could change the storyline and have the characters adapt.
Perfected virtual reality is superior to reality in every practical sense.
They will fix it if they have the opportunity.
@riidii, *finger guns*
@The Flame War, 👈😎👈
Don’t forget about Spirit!