Transsexual, transgender, intersex, or any genetic anomaly involving a chromosomal arrangement of YY, XXY, XYY, etc are NOT their own genders. They are biological anomalies, genetic defects. The proof of this is that in the vast majority of these cases the person is sterile.
@I Are Lebo, why would a transgender person be sterile
@Braumz, excessive estrogen renders males impotent and excessive testerone has pronounced negative effects on ovaries and fetuses, but primarily because the ultimate goal of a transgendered person is to have their genitals surgically altered to become as functionally close to that of the opposite sex as possible. It is not yet possible for a man to get pregnant, no matter how far into SRS he goes.
@I Are Lebo, the way you phrased it sounded like you meant they were sterile from birth. Plus they just get their sperm/eggs stored before they start hormones, its actually free for transgender people to do that in the UK. And if they are in SRS they're not really a 'he' anymore are they
@Braumz, that depends on what you mean by he. The technology does not exist to turn a man into a woman. For a very, VERY small demographic of people, it’s possible to transition to a point where they are indistinguishable from natural. These are people who were lucky enough to be naturally androgynous, or began transitioning prior to puberty.
I’ve known many of these people. I struggled with my own gender identity for a while, and joined a support group. The people ranged from a woman who I would’ve never known was born male to a literal man in a boob window dress.
If you are male, and you freeze sperm before getting SRS, and use that sperm in en vitro fertilization, you are a father. Not a mother.
The line is not clear. Not when you take an objective truth like sex and apply subjectivity to it.
@I Are Lebo, i dont see why the line needs to be clear. If you see a transgender person, lets say they are mtf and visually trying to appear female, is it not easier to say she instead of he, and possibly make things awkward for everyone involved. I dont see why they would need to literally be able to give birth to a child or look, lets say 'passable' as a woman to just use she instead of he when talking. I am transgender, and not a thing about me is masculine anymore, except from my voice obviously. 99.9% of people say she, but when someone calls me a he because of my voice can make for some awkward moments. I mean, as long as trans people disclose that they are trans before starting relationships with people i dont see why not just use the pronouns for the gender they are clearly indentifying with
@Braumz, because the difference between male and female is more than the clothes you wear or the way you style your hair. There is a movement out there to deny the differences between men and women, and it’s a very dangerous ideology.
I have no issue with being polite and courteous, but you don’t get to mandate the words that come out of my mouth. If you look like a man in drag, I’m not calling you ma’am. I’m just not. If you have a problem with that you can feel free to not associate with me. That’s fine. We don’t have to like each other. But I’m not buying into the delusion that what you feel like matters more than what you are.
Everyone can and should live their lives the way they want to. If the way you live makes you happy, I seriously mean it when I say good for you. But if you want to tell me that there’s no correlation between biology and gender, you’re wrong.
@Braumz, and I don’t want to be crude or cruel here, and I genuinely mean no offence, but if you want to be taken seriously, get your vocal chords tightened or go for speech therapy. I understand the risk involved, but how you sound plays a large part in how you present yourself, and no woman with a bass is going to ever be taken seriously by the general public, cis or trans.
It’s the simple truth. I used to be on Caitlyn Jenner’s side until I heard him give a speech. I say him because I closed my eyes and listened, and it was very clearly a man speaking. Male voice with male inflections sharing a masculine viewpoint.
There are free lessons online in how to change your voice, so any trans-woman with a deep voice and a dick is someone I’m not going to refer to as female, because they simply aren’t.
Sorry to be so blunt, but facts matter more than feelings and I haven’t the willingness to dance around this issue.
@Braumz, in any event, ‘transgender’ is not its own gender.
@I Are Lebo, its not about what you 'feel like'. I guess it could be kind of put as, my brain is telling me i'm female even though my body is male. Its not just a feeling, its an uncontrollable one. Its not as if it's something like depression, something that is possible to overcome and get over one day. I will always feel this way, and always have felt this way. That being said, it is basically a consant, just like my body will always be technically the male body. The way I see it, if someone is feminine, use feminine pronouns, there is no harm in that, not to you, not to anyone. If someone is clearly presenting themself as female, and you use malculine pronouns, that can effect them, and you dont know what they've been through so i would say its best not to. Mental health is so important and you dont know who struggles with it so just be polite to everyone. Also I have done speech therapy, im more refering to when drunk or something and i fvck it up
@I Are Lebo, no transgender is not it's own gender, at least we agree on something
@Braumz, contrary to what you might think, I know exactly what you’re referring to. I’m envious of nearly every woman I ever see. I see the petite curvy bodies and my reaction is that I want to have that, not to possess, but to be.
But I face reality. I’m a 6’3”, 240 lb 30 year old man and no amount of surgery or hormones or self deception will change that.
If someone is presenting themselves as female and they pass, I’ll refer to them as female even if I’ve figured out or been told that they’re trans. But I’ll do it to be polite. If I’m told that I must do so by law, then I won’t do it purely based on principle
Compassion is often used as a shield nowadays for tyranny. I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but because of bill C16 in Canada, if I make fun of a person’s ugly dress and they’re transgender, that counts as a hate crime. This isn’t equal rights being fought for, its special rights in the form of language policing
I honestly think we agree about the most important points
@Braumz, I think our point of disagreement is this: you don’t get to decree how other people refer to you. No one has that right.
Likewise, no one has the right to comfort. You do not have the right to not be offended. Me saying things you don’t like doesn’t infringe upon your rights. You stopping me from saying things you don’t like does infringe upon mine. And vice versa. You have just as much right to offend me.
@I Are Lebo, i dont really want it to be the law to say 'she' to me, i more want it to be common courtesy. And just saying, I've been there, very depressed, peoples words hurt and calling them he when theyre clearly identifying as female can add insult to injury you know? Anyway i think we can both just agree to not be dicks to people. Also, I am 6"4 tbh but all I get is people saying "fvcking hell look how tall that girl is" so thats kinda good for self esteem xD should probably stop this now or it could go on forever. Agree to disagree on some things, and both agree to not be unnecessarily rude to people
@Braumz, I’m totally with you. We don’t have to fully agree on the fundamentals to reach the shared conclusion of “don’t be mean to people”.
I heard this got edited out of the episode for home video releases
I don't think that was ever in the episode.
That particular quote at least wasn't.
The episode was actually one about probability, where Bill Nye uses chromosomes during opening, as a example of things affected by probabilty.
Later on in the episode, gender is touched on again, but by another scientist (can't remember her name) as she uses gender as an example of something that falls into the category of a 50/50 coin flip. But this is a show for kids, and we know, as mature adults that there is always the chance that a coin can land on its side.
When I say that, i don't mean Sex Spectrum, necessarily, but more Hermaphrodites and other peoples who fall into a similar category.
@Sexy Homunculus, I know you didn't ask about any of that, and I kind of want of on a tangent, but the quote is made up, and I've heard many people say it got removed, but I think that's because they saw this image on the internet and went looking for it, and because they didn't find it, they assumed it must been removed.
@Sexy Homunculus, I do believe this episode was edited when it was put on Netflix. I don’t know what parts exactly were redacted and sent down the memory hole. But yeah. 2018 I guess.
Jaysus how many times will this get posted? Aight: this image is a shop, and the episode quoted when nye was actually talking about gender was about probability. Remember, this show was made in the more conservative than today 90s. You’re the writer for a children’s science show, and an easy example of chance is physical sex, which the word gender was conflated with back then. You’re probably aware of the work done on the study of gender expression, but don’t include a lengthy explanation due to time restrictions and the aforementioned conservative parental audience, and hope that people interested actually look into the explanations of gender vs sex, and that idiots decades later don’t quote you out of context without bothering to find out what the episode was about
@Captain Anderson, he’s still a piece of shît.
@Captain Anderson, that's assuming a lot.
@Scarlet Pumpernickel, not really, from a chromosome standpoint, the “normal“ is a binary. The vast majority of people, with the exception of intersex, are strictly genetically male, or strictly genetically female. There’s not a whole lot of other qualities that we have genetically that are a strict binary like that. Again, just to be clear, I’m talking about on a chromosomal level, not getting into trans/intersex/any LGBT issues.
@Captain Anderson, don’t forget to breathe.
@Captain Anderson, there is no such thing as gender only sec. Your beliefs are naturally in direct opposition to one another and you don't even realise it.
@Kalam1ty, even most intersex people conform to one sex or the other for the most part. The vast majority go their whole lives without even realizing their intersex.
@BlazingBowman, I was mainly talking about the biological expression of sex, not identity.
@Kalam1ty, there one in the same. Sex is gender and gender is sex. If you believe otherwise you're thoughts will necessarily be hypocritical. What people mean by gender is masculine or feminine. You replace gender with masculine or feminine their arguments fall to pieces.
@BlazingBowman, Yeah, I just said that biological sex can be used to represent a chromosomal binary, unlike eye color, hair color or height. I’m talking about Punnett Squares, and said that the exceptions are intersex people. I wasn’t making a statement.
@Captain Anderson, how many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?
@BlazingBowman, There really does need to be a term which is agreed to cover biology rather than identity at some point, given that like 99.9% of the population fall in to one of two defined camps (proper biological hermaphroditism being the rare exception). Fact is, however I choose to identify, I’m never going to need a cervical smear test. And since some medical test results can be affected by gender (obvious example - ‘normal’ testosterone levels) it would be helpful to have that in medical records, even if it does not correlate with your chosen pronouns.
@Bad Boi Jesus, "I love young people"
@Captain Anderson, I wish I was your comment, before I went and posted pretty much the exact same thing...
Did you just assume my chromosomes?!
This has been proven fake
I signify as a raccoon.