That's a lie... he's also been prime minister.
Filter or no filter, Trump is doing everything he said he would do. Lower unemployment rate, better the economy, ect.
What about the president of America? He's well into his 3rd year now. Does he expect to make it to the end of this term? If so, what about another 4 years? If he makes it past that, would he change the rules and allow himself to stay the president of two different countries?
Would he add a third to the list?
@mas2de, no, because there’s a system of checks and balances. This idea that he somehow doesn’t deserve to be president is insanity. He won the election. Move on already.
@I Are Lebo, one interesting thought is that the American President is the first President in history who has not accepted the outcome of the election and has lied about the results. So it’s not unreasonable (although unlikely) to think that if he lost re-election, that he wouldn’t accept the results. And what happens after that would be the greatest finale to this season of America
@YoYoMango, Trump is also the first American President to face this level of rabid opposition. There have literally been people talking about impeachment since day 1.
Trump says whatever comes to mind with no detectable filter. He doesn’t lie as much as completely disregard the truth.
But this is Trump Derangement Syndrome at its finest. When has Trump EVER made that push? I’m talking about action, not words. When people fixate on his rude tweets or snotty comments, they are falling into his trap. He uses his words as a magicians distraction, and the media fall for it every single time.
There’s a big difference between Trump saying he wouldn’t accept the results of an election he lost and him actually trying to fight back. After all, many democrats are STILL arguing that Hillary actually should have won, so you tell me who isn’t accepting the results of an election they lost?
@I Are Lebo, Donald trump has literally stated that millions voted illegally and that he really won the popular vote, and that it was rigged. Every foreign leader hears these things and now either assume that our president is a paranoid liar, or that the American democracy is a joke. Words have consequences, especially as president. Had trump been the CEO of any publicly traded company while maintaining this type of rhetoric, he would be fired.
@YoYoMango, American democracy is a joke. I don’t know if the amount of illegal immigrants in sanctuary cities voting equals millions or not, but their existence and actions are undeniable. The popular vote is mostly irrelevant because that isn’t the election. Jerrymandering and racially divided voting incentives are just a few of the things that rig the system either way.
As for words having consequences, they don’t when you refuse to bend to the outrage mob. Words are words. Actions are what matter.
@I Are Lebo, lol first, the trump administration’s own voter fraud commission found no evidence whatsoever of voter fraud. Second, it’s spelt as gerrymandering, and that effects congressional districts, not national elections. Third, I would agree racial charged voter suppression is absolutely a way to help rig the system. Fourth, if your excuse for trump is that words don’t matter, then we’ve certainly come a long way in how low of a standard we keep the president of the United States. Had Hillary Clinton been president, and she lied about basic things like where her own father was born, election crowd sizes, or especially claiming that North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat, then republicans would demand her impeachment and almost certainly try to invoke the 25th amendment.
@YoYoMango, considering Hillary lied about being shot at, and arguably committed treason by deleting the evidence of her massive security blunder, and yet democrats ignored that just as much as republicans ignore the garbage that comes out of Trump’s mouth, that’s a nonsensical argument.
Why I say that you have Trump Derangement Syndrome is because I have repeatedly brought up that actions matter more than words and that Trump uses crudeness as a political strategy to distract his opposition and yet you have still not addressed any of his actions and are simply hung up on the fact that Trump says whatever he wants to and doesn’t care about the truth.
You are playing into his hands, along with so many others. People like you are why he will be a two term president. Your opposition to him is invalid.
@I Are Lebo, being a pathological liar and struggling with basic English is certainly worth criticizing. If you don’t think that’s important, then your standards for the president are terrifyingly low. In regards to actions, reducing sanctions on North Korea, reducing military actions in South Korea, child separation at the border, fiscal policy that has created a crippling budget deficit, trade policy that has created our worst trade deficits in our history, being unable to reduce or even acknowledge the massive increases in hate groups and hate crimes over the past two years (again, words have consequences whether you believe it or not), suppressing the free market by suppressing renewable energy industry while propping up fossil fuels, massive environmental deregulation (because he doesn’t understand climate change, and thinks it’s a hoax), increase in drone usage in foreign theaters along with no longer publicly releasing the civilian kill count from drones, and currently failing
@YoYoMango, ....failing in stopping Russia from interfering with our election again, because Russia will help him get elected again. Is that enough action or should I go on? These don’t seem to be the actions of a “very stable genius”
@I Are Lebo, oh people don't like hearing the entirely true bit that the current US president was and is backed by the Russian president. He asked for Russia's help on international TV and he got it. Of course Putin liked the dumbest, most corrupt and least honest person from the start.
Donald Trump does not deserve to be POTUS. He has proven that a thousand times over. I will move on when he is rightfully impeached as he has so earned. If it is actually determined that he does not deserve to be in prison, then I will grit my teeth and accept that he's just an a-hole and an idiot but not a criminal. He still never has and never will show the office he legally holds the respect that it deserves and calls for.
@YoYoMango, Russia interferes with our election process while Obama was in office. Obama knee about it and did not stop it. He had phone lines bugged in Trump’s offices.
Lebo is absolutely correct. You have a bias and are absolutely committed to believing anything that confirms it.
Trump is a loud mouth, sexist, blowhard. And You are deranged.
@big freedom, lol Obama never bugged trump’s offices. If you believe that, then you’ve been exposed to fake news. Also, you’re admitting that trump is a loud mouth, sexist, blowhard, and you think that doesn’t justify scrutiny?
@YoYoMango, firstly, I’m not saying that him being a liar and a douchebag aren’t worthy criticisms. They are. But his behaviour has not changed in four years. Stop being shocked, grow the fück up, and move on.
As to his actions, he put sanctions on a tyrannical dictatorship that regularly commits human rights violations on their own people and has had literal miles of howitzers aimed at Seoul for generations, threatening mass death if they are defied. Supporting North Korea is supporting evil.
The child separation at the border started under Obama, so piss off with that. What do you do when people break the law with children? You separate them. No one is complaining about American convicts being separated from their kids, so this is pointless virtue signalling.
The budget deficit also predates Trump, so again piss off with that nonsense.
This is not the worst trade deficit and is actually one of the best, so that’s a lie.
The increase in hatred is not due to Trump. He is a symptom
and not the cause. The left wing are the ones propagating the hatred with double standards around bigotry and open hatred for whites and men. Look at how a single racially inflammatory tweet from Roseanne is enough to get the highest grossing tv show cancelled but four years of explicit tweets from Sarah Jeong are enough to get her hired at the NYT.
If you think Trump suppresses the free market you don’t understand what you’re talking about.
As for drone strike casualties, that makes him EXACTLY THE SAME as both Obama and Bush, so once again piss off with that nonsense.
There was no collusion with Russia, there was no meaningful interference in that election, that was the entire purpose of the two year long investigation.
You should go on, because so far you’ve presented a fantastic assortment of horseshït.
No one thinks he is a “stable genius”. He’s an asshole. But you’re a deranged idiot.
@mas2de, he won the election. He’s the president. Cry some more.
Or better yet, actually examine the problems in your society that got you to this point. That would be the grown up thing to do. I’m not holding my breath, though.
@I Are Lebo, amazing. Almost everything you just said was not true. I’d suggest taking 5 minutes to fact check each of those lines, I’d go point by point to explain why those lines are untrue but I simply don’t have the time nor the patience. In addition, North Korea just launched short range missiles the other day, and trump stated that he was with Kim Jung un. So I do agree with you that that’s supporting evil.
@I Are Lebo, if you’d like me to provide fact checks and sources for why your statements are wrong, I gladly will
@I Are Lebo, I could tell you the same juvenile garbage. Yes Trump won, more deserving and fitting people lost. That was with the help of a foreign country and he accepts that help willingly and continues to side with foreign actors outside of the best interest of the United States of America. They serve themselves and Trump serves only himself and his rich friends. That is one of the biggest problems in our society that led us as a country to this point. Choosing to ignore it and say that those who dislike the liars and con-artists in power are the problem and that they are "crying" about it, is another issue of a biased and illogical society. Instead of examining facts, you happily take as your chosen leader a documented liar, a cheat, an immoral human, and someone who fools idiots into thinking he cares about anything other than his money.
@I Are Lebo, words do you have consequences and to say otherwise is to ignore history.
Yes actions speak louder than words. But words have a power of their own.
After all, all it takes is mentioning Obama and it sends Trump supporters off the deep end. And that’s only a mild more recent example.
There are many other examples of how words have led to changed nations.
@Seohn, of course words have consequences. And the consequence of the words of the left who take every opportunity to be outraged, Trump is going to be a two term president. Words matter. Actions matter more.
I’m sick of the dishonest tactics. I’m sick of having to defend a piece of garbage like Donald Trump because the people going after him are foaming at the mouth and paying no attention to the consequences of their own words. Trump is an asshole. He’s always been an asshole, and he will always will be an asshole. Stop letting him derail the conversation by focusing on what a boor he is. It doesn’t matter. What matters is people blaming or crediting Trump with things he has not done. The children being separated at the border have been separated out of necessity and have done so since long before trump was in office. It’s a dog whistle.
Hold him responsible for the crap that he actually does. He does and says enough reprehensible things that these dishonest tactics aren’t needed.
@mas2de, no matter how many times you assert things without evidence, it will not make it true.
There is no amount of investigation into Trump that you would accept as long as it returned a not guilty verdict.
You’re part of the problem because of your tactics, not because of your motives.
@mas2de, I thought we all agreed on no poltics guys :c go to Youtube for these debates please, I came for funny pics.
@I Are Lebo, Oh, that's good to know. Well I guess I can go back to saying that there is no way there isn't enough evidence to convict his spray-tanned lard a$$ for colluding with a foreign government. Glad you know what I think Lebo.
Conversely: is there no amount of investigation and criminal convictions surrounding him and including him that will convince you that he may very be a criminal? There are plenty of people out there that even if he was thrown in jail for any number of very potential crimes, they would still say he was innocent and a patriot. If you want evidence, go read the 400 page report on it. A crapload of the evidence is collected there and formulated without bias. And that's just the investigation of interference into the presidential election. To say nothing of his conduct with banks and investors and money laundering and fraud.
I have accepted that there is not enough evidence to find Trump guilty of collusion. But he did Ask Russia on International TV to help!
@Dayshift, Funny Pics and Politics... Wait, no. That's not right.
@mas2de, you know what would convince me that’s he’s a criminal? Him being charged and convicted. The rule of law and of due process is afforded to EVERYONE, not just people you like.
And the conclusion of that 400 page report was no evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia on any illegal activities, and yet you continue to insist otherwise.
You keep going on about the crap the man says, when everyone sane agrees it’s crap. Move. The. Fück. On.
It’s seriously quite pathetic how you and so many others keep getting hung up on his rudeness. Move on already. He’s an asshole and that’s not changing. Stop being outraged that he refuses to bend the knee to you and your sensibilities. You aren’t a moral authority.
Honestly. Move on or fück off already.
@big freedom, sigh* once again you are biased as well and only look at resources that support your view as well freedom
The Muller report also confirmed. Fûck outta here with your ignorance
@big freedom, lol bruh, the Washington Times is a hardcore right wing news source. I hope you know that. Don’t use it as a valid source.
@YoYoMango, your logical fallacy is: guilty by association. Just because it’s reported in Washington Times does not make it less true.
@CellSword, sigh. Once again you bring nothing but prattle to the conversation. I read, watch, and listen to reports and opinion from all sides because I am very interested in what reality is. You should give it a try sometime.
@mas2de, yes Putin and Russia did everything they could to interfere. They will continue to do so. They, along with everyone else, thought Clinton would win. They wanted to weaken her. This has been very well documented.
@big freedom, lol for sure man, learn to persuade. All you do is attack, nobody will ever come to your way of thinking with your strategy. Just a friendly reminder to not be a gigantic a$$hole for no reason 😊
@CellSword, I could not care less if strangers on a funny pics app, who have demonstrated cognitive dissonance to an astonishing degree, are persuaded.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, it’s impossible to win one against a stupid person. I’m betting nobody has ever won an argument against you.
@I Are Lebo, it is seriously quite pathetic how you choose to ignore a man's words, actions and intent just because you think you're on his side. Yes he's rude, so what? He's also a criminal in the closest legal terms that anyone outside if congress can state. Get the fvçk over your stupid obsession with him and Open. Your. Eyes!
I mildly care if he refuses to "bend the knee" to 1/2 the country but that's just politics. I Do care that he Does bend the knee to foreign powers like Putin, Xi and Kim. How the fvçk can any true American not!? If you don't, then you truly don't care about US sovereignty. Grow up and smell the smoke. There's a fire here and you're refusing to believe it because you like your fake news from DJT, the liar in chief.
@mas2de, wow, you’re totally making a difference by pointing out how trump is a bad person. BRAVO! I’m sure that’ll change the results of the election or maybe impeach trump. I’m sure that posting this on funny pics will have an influence on politicians or even anyone else... 🙄
@mas2de, it is seriously pathetic how you choose to ignore any persons words that don’t confirm your previously held beliefs. Donald Trump is not on my side. I am not a Trump supporter. I despise him. But I despise ideologues like you far more.
He isn’t a criminal because every single criminal investigation has resulted in a lack of evidence. Open you own fücking eyes. If Trump is a criminal because he’s a self serving asshole, then practically every politician is a criminal by those standards.
You don’t understand any facet of this issue because you can’t get past the fact that he’s rude. THAT is what is most pathetic.
@mas2de, Also, you’re a hypocrite, because you’re the one ignoring his actions to fixate on his words.
@mas2de, I don’t think we should ignore how ignorant your comment is. Just like the fûcking morons who claimed Obama was going to invade Texas and demand a third term. Do you really believe the shît you said?
@Crossicus , You're totally right. I should do what you're doing. What is it you're doing again? Happily accepting it?
@I Are Lebo, you're completely on your head here Lebo. The ONLY reason why Trump has not been convicted by Mueller's team is because he is the sitting President. Apparently a sitting President cannot be charged with a crime except by congress. That is fact. Deny, deny, deny if you want, but quit bjtching to me about it. You're incorrect and you're willfully ignoring 1) the writing on the wall and 2) the evidence dredged up by the investigations of him and his conduct. He is also currently embroiled in several court cases in the state of NY and has been guilty of crimes in the past and just paid them off, or he's settled out of court (paid them off because he knew he couldn't get away with it)
It is you who ignores many facets of the situation at hand. He didn't actually intentionally collude with Russia, Fine. I begrudgingly accepted that when that was finally found. He still actually asked for help and received it from those he asked it from. Those are undeniable facts. Not hypocrisy.
@big freedom, which part of which comment?
@I Are Lebo, on another note, you seem to be under the delusion that the president was exonerated and proclaimed innocent of conspiracy to collude with a foreign government to interfere in the US election process. This is incorrect. The Mueller led investigation did not comb through Trump's and Trump business monetary ties to Russia. It looked at some but did not conduct a thorough investigation into the trail of money. That would be a key aspect of any actual investigation targeted at answering whether Trump attempted to collude with Russia. The investigation was just to say whether or not Russia interfered with the US 2016 election. Which, of course they did. The fact that Trump made it about him tells you that he was probably guilty. He has not been cleared of that crime BTW. Mueller's team just did not find enough on the surface to make it worth their while to go down that path. It was also not part of their job then. Barr and DJT say "exonerated", Mueller says "I can't say that"
@I Are Lebo, your arguments are shjt and so far you've stated 1 correct thing and that is that he won the election and that he's the president. How very astute of you.
There was definitely meaningful interference in that election and the fact that Trump Refuses to address it should make every American's blood boil. Putin did not decide the election, but he helped push it where he wanted it to go and that was towards a buffoon who would take Putin's word of every IC office in the US and then call Putin for a 90 min. as well as visit him Privately at Every opportunity And invite Putin and his translator into the Oval Office Without anyone else from the US allowed in. That is the man you're defending saying that there is absolutely 0 possible evidence that he colluded with the Russian government. You Cannot say that because the people who can actually assert that have not been charged to investigate that. So you saying that there was "no collusion" is only based on DJT's own dreams and...
@mas2de, a document that states that it could not exhonerate Trump of that assertion and that it was not supposed to actually look at that, so it didn't pursue that path to its finality.
Oh, and Please tell me what "actions" Trump himself has taken or pushed in punishing Russia for interfering in our elections time and time again. What actions do you think I should be focusing on here? His pandering to Putin's ego and power? His inviting Putin to have friendly chats and ask Putin how He (DJT) should handle things like the Mueller investigation?
You show me some definitive, harsh and appropriate action Trump has taken to outweigh his favoritism for the foreign country that helped him get his office, or STFU and go study up.
BTW to beat you to a bit of it, the Trump Administration (Not DJT himself) did impose some sanctions of Russia that really weren't that harsh though they do still hurt Russia.
@mas2de, Trump himself ordered attacks against Syria (good job Donald. One of the ~3 things I say that for). But even then that's just a Russian ally. Another push against RUS is helping give the Ukraine lethal weapons legally. That's a pro for Ukrainian self-defense and US weapons mfg. (Good job again Don).
@mas2de, those are neither facts nor undeniable. Again, no matter how many times you assert the same things without evidence, it doesn’t make it true because you asserted it strenuously enough.
The investigation did not attain evidence that can be used for an impeachable offender. Period. That means no evidence of legal wrongdoing, or else that would be cause for impeachment.
You’re so biased it’s blinding you.
@mas2de, he doesn’t need to be exonerated. He hasn’t been charged and due process applies to him as well.
@I Are Lebo, my tone is irrelevant. Facts are facts. Period. You're blind as a bat because you refuse to not be, but you continually say I am blind to my biases just because you don't want to believe it. Obstruction of justice is an impeachable offense and the investigation did find plenty of that. However, Mueller's team does not have the authority to act on it against Trump while he is POTUS. It has started plenty of satellite court cases and made indictments and guilty pleas and verdicts of it's own just not directly of the sitting president. (Again, only Congress can do that)
I gave you evidence, and you have not given any of substance yet maintain that I am a fool and that yours is the only correct position on the matters.
You're being an obstinate, hypocritical, idiot Lebo. Please just stop, or do research, then come back and stomp me with facts and clear, concise and correct arguments. But one or the other man. Seriously.
@I Are Lebo, I'm sorry, you're right. He is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law or in his case in potential impeachment proceedings. Just because a team of lawyers do everything they can to say he's definitely guilty of "X", doesn't mean he has gone through trial. So, he's not guilty of it until that sentence is handed down. You're still looking at the same base material though, reading that "If he was innocent, we would so state. We can not so state at this time." (Paraphrased) and you're denying that there is evidence of his wrong doing.
@mas2de, I never mentioned your tone, but you’re right. Facts are facts. And you don’t have any. All you have are assertions without evidence.
The investigation into Trump is not, was not, and could not be a blanket investigation into any possible wrongdoing the man has ever committed. The purpose of investigation was to determine if Trump illegally collided with Russia to become President, and he didn’t.
This is #MeToo levels of unscrupulous behaviour. Just keep asserting things without evidence, why don’t you? It’s only hurting your own cause by coming off as a deranged person who cannot accept any information that conflicts with your beliefs.
@mas2de, ranting your political agenda on the internet is considerably worse than accepting it. It’s only going to make people angry and tribal.
@I Are Lebo, He openly claimed to take credit for the economy in the first couple years of him being in office. If he’s going to take claim for the work of people before him. Than that makes him responsible for separating the kids too.
His supporters are the biggest hypocrites I’ve seen in years. Because they’ll use your very argument to denies that he has credit for dividing the children but support his claim of turning the economy around in his first year. The thing about hypocrites are that they don’t even realize they’re doing it. They are incapable of doubting their own knowledge or thoughts.
@mas2de, there isn’t enough evidence for collusion. There was plenty of other wrong doings found done by people around him. However there’s plenty of evidence to strongly suggest obstruction. If it were you or I that had done the things he did to try to slow the investigation. We’d be in jail.
And you can bet many of the same people who deny Trump of wrong doings would’ve tried to impeach Obama if he had done the same thing with as much evidence as there is for Trumps obstruction. Goes back to my hypocrite arguements.
@I Are Lebo, there was plenty of evidence that there was wrongdoing in terms of obstruction. Many of his very people that work for him said he ordered them to do things that would slow the process down and they flat refused. His own words through Twitter make it sound like he was trying to stop it. Plenty of evidence that says he isnt guilt free of the intent. Lets also remember that intent in many cases is enough to convict. If that were you are I doing the things he did to try to slow that investigation down or even appear to try. We’d be in a lot of trouble.
Mueller himself said he isn’t clear of it. I see how its easy to trust Mueller as being truthful about no collusion but lying about possible obstruction. But hey, theres nothing hypocritical about that statement at all is there?
@Seohn, the garbage that comes out of Trump’s mouth has no apparent correlation with reality. We have gone over this again and again. He doesn’t lie as much as completely disregard the truth. He also says ridiculous things as a political strategy to distract the opposition. Him claiming responsibility for the economy is another in an enormous line of horseshït that he’s said. So what? That’s not collusion, that’s not obstruction, and it’s not relevant.
Likewise, neither is you shifting the goalposts by swapping to what his supporters do. Holding Trump responsible for the behaviour of those obsessed with him is no more fair than blaming Milo for the actions of his twitter followers or anyone else.
Hold people responsible for what they actually do. Not what others do in their name.
@Seohn, if there’s actual evidence of obstructions, he should be impeached/charged. I’m not arguing against it. But the report saying it doesn’t exonerate him is NOT the same thing as saying it implicates him. He isn’t on trial, and is innocent until proven guilty, like anyone else.
If he asked (or ordered) a subordinate to obstruct, and they refused, and he fired them, that would be one thing. But if the giant manbaby told someone to help him, while either not knowing or not caring the implications, was told no, and then moved on, that’s not obstruction.
Likewise, it’s not obstruction to be a dick on Twitter. The derangement against trump is fücking exhausting. Russians on Facebook do not matter. The talk about election interference has been vague from the get to. Influencing social attitudes is something America does CONSTANTLY, so this freak out about Russian trolls on the internet is a total waste of time and effort. Unless they actually hacked the voting system, it’s irrelevant.
@I Are Lebo, A disregard for the truth is not much different than a lie. Really at that point its no better than an opinion.
But he does lie. And the example I use is the one where he lied about one of the senators being in the hospital and that is the reason why he didn’t get a vote for something he wanted.
Its as simple as this. If he isn’t lying then he’s incompetent. Because thats what a person who disregards truth to suit their view is.
and your arguments about if the giant man baby told someone to help him, well either not knowing or not caring about the implementations was told no and then move on. That still means it’s obstruction. Just because you’re not knowledgeable of a law doesn’t make you immune to it. “As someone put it I’m sorry I didn’t know it was illegal to steal that” will still get you jail time.
The fact that you’re using that as a defense means you’re stretching to defend him. And arent aware of how the law works....
@I Are Lebo, he may not be exonerated, but he’s also not proven innocent either. There’s enough evidence there to suggest wrongdoing in terms of obstruction. Now it just needs to be pursued to prove it otherwise.
Based on what has been shown by his own actions. His intent strongly appears to be to obstruct (aka interfere or slow an investigation). And according to the law. Intent is enough to lock you up.
Sure I intended to commit that crime judge. I had a letter written up talking about how I would do it.... but hey I didn’t actually commit the crime though so how can I be guilty of anything? Yeah that doesnt work in American courts for other people. Why should it be any different for Trump.
However you are right about one thing he is innocent until proven guilty. At the moment though he looks awfully guilty. The trick is proving intent or that he slowed the investigation, (which is the definition of obstruction.)
@Seohn, I agree that a disregard for the truth is no better than lying. That’s why I’ve been arguing for people to stop listening to what he says for literal years now. Him being the president doesn’t make him less full of shït, and people being surprised by his unchanging behaviour over and over again are literally deranged.
He lies constantly. This is old news. He’s not going to stop lying and no one can compel him to stop lying. So move on already.
The derangement is real. He’s either an evil mastermind or a buffoon? No, he’s a buffoon that the American populace elected because they’re so goddamn sick and tired of the status quo of corrupt, self centred, and incompetent politicians that they elected a corrupt, self centred, and incompetent businessman just to have something different.
People need to examine the core of the problem. Which isn’t Trump’s boorish behaviour. It’s why he was elected in the first place.
Telling someone to steal something and them telling you no is by
no means a crime. If he committed a crime, he needs to be held accountable. But people have been trying to impeach him since literally before the first day of his presidency and it is because of them that no one sane believes it anymore.
It’s typical boy who cried wolf, only in this case it’s Blitzer instead of hairy.
@I Are Lebo, But hey let’s do what you and people like you seem to suggest and not even try to see if he intended or actually investigate whether or not he obstructed. Because you know. If we ignore it and never investigate because he’s a clown. The truth will come out all on its own right? Because thats how truth works I guess?
He may be innocent until proven guilty. But he’ll never be proven innocent or guilty until someone actually investigates it. And at the moment the current evidence suggest that there’s a possibility he did it. And it’s not that hard to look up to find what current things make him look guilty.
@I Are Lebo, I don’t hold anything he says as truth anymore because he’s a compulsive lair. That makes him incompetent I think.
Telling someone to steal something and them telling you no. Can be proof of ones intent though. The moment he had several people reveal that he asked them to do that. Is the moment his intent became much clearer. And is likely the very reason he wasn’t exonerated of obstruction.
After all. It’s one thing to run your mouth online or on Twitter like he does. It’s another thing to try to convince other people to do the dirty work for you. (Like a mob boss.)
Weather they said no to committing the act doesn’t take away from the intent of the person trying to convince someone to commit the act.
Its the very reason why I think his intent was obstruction. The only reason I don’t think he’s guilty without a doubt and why Mueller mentioned doubt being used for court is because they have to have more proof that he actually said that to those people.
@I Are Lebo, If they had, say, a recording of him saying things those people claim he said that was meant as trying to slow the investigation. At that point there should no longer be doubt of his intent to obstruct. Which for everyone but Trump it seems would be a criminal offense.
And there are a few people that say because there was no collusion and no crime committed how can there be obstruction. Well that’s simple it’s easy to look up what the law definition is of obstruction. Obstruction is an entirely separate crime independent of whatever crime you’re being investigated for originally.
Person doesn’t have to be guilty or innocent of a crime in order to be found guilty of the entirely separate crime of obstruction. Obstruction is trying to slow or prevent or interfering with law-enforcement from doing their job or investigation.
In other words if I walk onto a crime scene even if I’m not guilty of being a part of and I start getting in the way. That would be obstruction.
@I Are Lebo, The other thing I want to point out is the way you word that one comment makes it sound like because people have been trying to impeach him since he took office. We should just ignore strong evidence of possible wrong doing by him? Its like your advocating that we shouldn’t investigate what strongly appears to be a crime all because there’s a group of people that don’t like him and want to see him impeached?
He shouldn’t be held accountable for the things he may have done because of the actions of others, is what it looks like you are saying when you use it to defend yourself.
Yes the boy crying wolf teaches us not to claim something that isn’t true. But it also teaches us not to ignore the possibility of danger because someone was being an ass. (Another lesson that gets overlooked from the story.)
@Seohn, what did I say, time and time again? If they have evidence of criminal behaviour on the part of Trump, they need to put his feet to the fire for it. But until such a time, they need to shut the fück up about it, already. There hasn’t been a single day in the last two years that CNN didn’t devote a significant amount of their air time to Trump, and many days they spent almost their entire air time on him. As for that PoS rag, MSNBC, Trump should sue them for defamation.
We need to ignore his words when he’s talking shït. That doesn’t mean we should ignore his actions. We shouldn’t. But truth doesn’t come out by listening to liars, and no one sane (or unbiased) is contesting the fact that he’s a liar.
Looking guilty is not being guilty. Brett Kavanaugh didn’t make a good show of himself, doesn’t make him guilty.
Intent is not a crime unless the charge is conspiracy. If he intended or wanted to obstruct but didn’t or couldn’t, then he is innocent of obstruction. And I don’t buy
the idea that he couldn’t, because he has Executive Privilege.
I have no doubt that he wanted to obstruct, like I said, manbaby with impulse issues. Doesn’t make him guilty of a crime. If he obstructed, let’s take him down. If he didn’t, let’s move on.
@Seohn, people have been looking for ANY reason to impeach him because they hate him as a person. That’s not the same thing.
The fervour is hurting it’s own cause. The crusade against Trump is not coming from an honest place and it’s counterproductive. It’s pushing more people into his camp.
@I Are Lebo, If he tried to obstruct and failed (such as trying to convince others to do it for you). Thats not much different than actually doing it. People get in trouble for failed attempts at crimes all the time.
And as I’ve said. They likely just lack the proof of obstruction or conspiracy by not being able to prevent doubt of what the people who made the claims he tried to do things they claim he said, are true.
@Seohn, the boy who cries wolf is not a lesson about overlooking danger. If you got from the story that the people were wrong to not rush to the boy the final time when there was an actual wolf present, then you completely missed the point of the story. It’s the exact opposite. The boy’s death was his own fault, and it’s CNN and MSNBC that are going to get Trump re-elected.
If he asked someone else to obstruct and they refused and he moved on, that’s entirely different from a concentrated effort to shut down a legal investigation into his wrongdoings. It’s not innocence, but if he did this repeatedly, then he should indeed be impeached for it.
I’d love to continue, but I’m late for work.
@Seohn, one thing to note, though. I really do think we are in the same side on this. I despise Trump. He’s a terrible person. I hate especially how often I’m pushed into defending him because I’d much prefer him gone.
@I Are Lebo, Just an FYI. Im not CNN or MSNBC. His actions make him look really guilty based on what I’ve seen so far. And I think it needs to be investigated. His actions caused the appearance of potential guilt.
His Actions, are what draw those stations to spend so much time on him. He’s a troll that feeds other trolls is one way to put it.
Regardless of how long people have been trying to impeach him. His actions played a part in their efforts to impeach him. He lacks the mannerisms of a leader. Weather that is wrong or right to seek impeachment. I don’t care.
What I do take a small interest in. And stay on topic about is his actions. And at the moment his actions appear to strongly suggest he tried to obstruct.
@I Are Lebo, I think Trump is a terrible human being. He may be a good business man. But he’s a terrible person. His poor social skills and the claims of “it was meant as a joke” every time the news latches onto something he should know was in poor taste to say. Makes me dislike him even more. Yeah he may have some good policies. But no amount of good policies will make me like him as a person.
and I agree I think we both see eye to eye on this. I just think regardless of what other people have tried to do to get him impeached. That doesn’t clear him of needing to be investigated for try to stop or slow the Mueller investigation. I don’t believe he should get special treatment all because he’s the president. If it were anybody else such as you were I we would be in serious trouble for the things hes said and done during the whole investigation based on the proof they have now.
But you know as well as I that because he’s the president they need more proof then they would for us.
@Seohn, him not having the proper temperament or leader is entirely irrelevant. He was elected into the office while behaving exactly the same as he has acted in office. That’s like a woman marrying an asshole, knowing he’s an asshole, and then two years later wanting a divorce because he’s an asshole.
Not only is Trump a terrible human, he’s also a terrible businessman. He’s a boor. But his behaviour hasn’t changed in over four years. Getting outraged over his behaviour at this point is like being surprised by the sun rising. We don’t have to like him, but we need people to stop crusading against him. They’re playing directly into his hands.
@I Are Lebo, I have not liked Trumps temperament since the beginning.
I will say that normally I don’t like to pass judgement as to weather someone did or did not do something. But for Trump I really think he tried/attempted to slow or stop the investigation. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that shows he fixated on it. Went off topic and ranted about it numerous times.
Because of his fixation on it for the last few years. It wouldn’t surprise me if he looked for excuses to fire people involved with it. The only thing thats missing is proof that the firing of someone was in part due to their involvement and now just because of whatever reason he claims to have used.
The fact that he had to be told multiple times that it was a bad idea to fire Mueller makes him look even more like his intent was to influence the investigation some way.......
@big freedom, I appreciate the elementary school counter point. I think I'm done here lol 😆
@I Are Lebo, ...... Even with all that. The part that really drove it home for me thinking he’s guilty of trying to derail it. Is when Muellers report talked about how several people said he ordered them to do acts that would be a direct attempt to influence the investigation and they flat out refused.
Thats the part that had the final hand in removing my normal non judgemental mentality. Now the trick is finding proof to give no doubt of this. Since the title of president comes with a perk us normal citizens don’t get when facing potential criminal charges.
There are people in jail now with flimsier evidence than is already present for him. And him having that title is the only thing keeping him from jail right now. But until it can be proven without doubt not alot can be done.
His actions I have mentioned have just given the people who’ve been trying to impeach him from the beginning. A more direct target to aim their efforts in.....
@I Are Lebo, But I agree it does get tiring how they were trying from the start of his presidency to impeach him. Even I at times defended him by reminding people he likes to get a rise out of people and says things just to get reactions.
Is it right he acts like that? No. But theres no rule against it so its pointless to seek impeachment over stuff like that.
But I have since stopped defending him due to the information that strongly points to guilt of trying to derail the investigation. I think they need to focus on that and clear up if theres proof without doubt. If there is proof without doubt. Then action should be taken. If they cant find any. Then his office title will have protected him. Since less evidence has been needed in the past for other people....
@CellSword, why in the world would I offer you anything more? You continually prove that you’re incapable of having an adult conversation, so I’ll meet you where you are. Please feel free to check out.
@I Are Lebo, But no amount of “it was just a joke” will make him look innocent to me. My sister had a habit of saying things in a conversation that would obviously make mom mad. But only after mom would get mad would my sister start to claim it was a joke to try and save her on ass.
Its a tactic I have seen many times. And the very one Trump uses. Doesn’t take a genius to learn that trick. The method of intentional saying stuff to piss people off then claiming it was a joke.
My mom was one of those people who would speak her mind too. But unlike Trump she was good at it. People still liked her afterward. I’ve never figured out how she was able to pull that off. Im guessing it was because there was no malice behind it and it was obvious due to her mannerisms.
@Seohn, it’s been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Democratic Party and President Obama went way beyond was is acceptable to spy on and investigate Trump and his campaign. I would not be very helpful either.
I want to congratulate everyone who continues to push this bullshît narrative - you will all guarantee that Trump gets re-elected. The Republicans have so much reason to show up at the polls now. Continue to attack and attack and this is what happens.
I didn’t vote for Trump before, but I am going to next time because of all of this.
@big freedom, do you know how children will use the excuse. “But dad Timmy did that too. he, or mom he hit me first.” Whenever they are in trouble.
I want you to think about and that how children use that exact same excuse when they are in trouble. Then apply that to when you bring up Obama to a conversation that did not involve Obama. If you do maybe you’ll see how there is a strong similarity between this childish tactic to derail a topic or divert attention away from the actual subject.
This is not the Obama main topic of conversation you are looking for move along. Because basically you’re only further making Trump look guilty.
Going to such lengths to distract away from the topic must mean there’s something to hide. Or some truth to it since you seem to claim the things about Obama are true.
And claiming that because somebody did something wrong it’s somehow OK for someone else to do something wrong, still implies both are guilty.
@big freedom, I don’t know about that. I know a few people that won’t vote for him now because of his actions. And people who vote purely on party I think are not patriots and put party above country.
@Seohn, which topic? A ridiculous investigation and unwillingness to play along? Because it absolutely 100% started during the campaign and Obama was absolutely 100% president at the time... if you can’t make that connection, I can’t help you.
Like I said, continue to attack, which will push more independents to vote for Trump, just as a giant fûck you to all the ridiculous deranged Anti-Trumpers out there.
@big freedom, even if Obama started the investigation. Obstruction is an entirely separate crime that Trump himself probably committed. But hey. Your argument seems to be Obama made Trump and his team say and do things that weren’t suppose to. Because lets just ignore what the investigation found and remove all blame from what they did and shift it to Obama.
Im sorry officer I didn’t shoot that guy. Obama started an investigation and made me do it. (Thats exactly what you sound like when you use that argument). and if you can’t make that connection I can’t help you.
Trumps own actions are going to drive reasonable people to vote for anyone but him who see the things he’s done and his compulsion to lie over petty stuff.
All the people that voted for Trump out of spite of his opponent showed themself when they voted for him the first time. He wont have as many that vote for that reason the next time. ....
@big freedom, ... Besides why should anyone care about pissing people off who vote for Trump out of spite. Those type of people dont need much incentive to do anything out of spite. And considering they prefer do act out of spite rather then best interest. Theres not much anyone can say that can convince them to change their mind anyway.
@big freedom, Voting against or for someone due to the mentality of just screwing over the other team. Is wrong on both sides. I mention that because there will also be people who don’t vote for Trump out of spite.
@Seohn, that’s what it sounds like to you because you’re incredibly biased and only see and hear things through the filter of that bias. An (probably) illegal (definitely political) investigation based on lies. If he did not collude and was being investigated for collusion, why cooperate? If I didn’t commit a crime and my neighbors continued to push the police to look into every detail of my life, I would not be very cooperative.
Trumps actions are well known before he was elected and he was elected anyway. The actions of the dems are driving more people to want to vote for him. That’s the reality. How you chose to deal with it is up to you.
@Seohn, “those types of people” is where you are wrong. Look at the polls. Trump is at his highest approval rating after the report came out. People are sick and tired of endless investigations and the ever increasing nut job far left democrats.
Not to mention a roaring economy and the amount of illegal immigration spiking at the southern border. There are many reasons to vote for Trump, not just spite, but that certainly will get more people to show up at the polls. Congratulations on acting like whiny children, you’ve made people hate you more than they hated Trump. That’s an impressive feat.
@Seohn, now, you can continue to be just like the main stream media and be clueless to reality. Remember that they had Clinton 90% to win in ‘16? They took about 5 minutes of self examination to think about how they got it so wrong. But they went right back to bias and attack. You are part of the problem. Trump derangement syndrome isn’t just a funny phrase. It’s clearly displayed every day.
I don’t expect you to change, you seem to be incapable of taking in unbiased news and forming your own rational thoughts. But I want you to be aware of how your actions and the actions of those like you are already having. Good luck
@big freedom, I like how you seem to think I’m biased but you don’t see how you are.
Trump knew what he was getting into when he took office. My opinions about Trump when he first took office were, he’s an asshole but he has some decent policies.
The investigation is, what it is. They found russian meddling and his campaign team had committed crimes. Since you like to bring Obama into this I’ll remind you that the Republicans tried really hard to remove Obama using his “birth certificate” to which some still believe or on other things they could come up with. But unlike Trump he didn’t throw a hissy fit about it.
Just because someone’s pissed off about it doesn’t give them the right to try to obstruct it. And based on his actions that I’ve seen I think he tried to obstruct. Because unlike Trump I understand that just because I’m pissed off about an investigation. I know better not to screw with it. Since that can get you in trouble for slowing it down or trying to influence it.
@big freedom, in other words just because the Democrats were trying to screw over Trump with the investigation. Doesn’t give him a free pass to commit the separate crime of obstruction. And that’s what you’re advocating for from the sounds of it. You’re advocating for giving him a free pass because you don’t like the Democrats. And here you say I’m biased.
Is it right that a lot of Democrats were using the phrase collusion even though the investigation wasn’t about collusion? No. Of course rather than Trump point out that the investigation was an about collusion. He use that phrase too.
But that doesn’t excuse the strong appearances of obstruction that Trump himself created. And it definitely doesn’t excuse his campaign peoples crimes that were found through the investigation. Or are you just ignoring that and focused all your bias towards being mad at the Democrats?
@Seohn, yeah, and the birth certificate thing was fûcking retarded. Just because one team does it doesn’t mean it’s right for the other team to do it back. That’s whataboutism and it’s moronic.
I am biased and I acknowledge it and do everything I can to be intellectually honest. I don’t give an issue a pass just because it’s “my teams” issue. I do everything I can to keep an open mind on every situation and look at it from a practical standpoint. I don’t try to have my values thrust upon others. Your life is yours and yours alone to do with as you will. I don’t think the government should any influence over our daily lives. This weird obsession with every thing the president says or does is not healthy. It’s bizarre and a sign of a diseased society. That is my biased opinion but based on a lot of experience.
@Seohn, let’s play a mind exercise. You can lie to me if you want, but be honest with yourself.
It’s 2007 presidential election season. President Bush sees that the likely candidate, a Democrat Freshman Senator from Illinois is leading the polls. Bush has an FBI agent not only listen to his phone calls but asks the FBI to investigate his past as well as his father’s past.
The FBI agent finds out that the Senator has ties to Bill Ayer, a known terrorist and that his father has very socialist leanings. So president Bush allows the agent to go to the media with a wild story about how Obama went to Africa and paid hookers to pee in his bed. And we know Africa has been doing everything they can to mess with our elections. The media takes the story, hook line and sinker, and spends the next 2 years attacking Obama for colluding with Africa.
Would you have criticized Obama for wanting to fire the FBI agent that made up the story - thus interfering with an investigation based on lies?
@Seohn, now, given the scenario above and what’s happened with Trump, would you want to grant the current president the power to investigate political rival Bernie Sanders, or Joe Biden or Kamala Harris based on lies that he himself created? And then use that investigation to bring down one of them should they be elected?
@big freedom, Yeah I would’ve criticized a similar scenario. Would’ve made jokes about him having something to hide just like I did Trump.
You have let your biases dictate your perceptions. You aren’t dealing with some far left or far right hypocrite if you thought you could stump me on that question. I voted for Bush twice. I had my reasons back then. I vote for whom I want and partys are a joke.
The difference is I hold all people as equal and judge them based on their character and their actions. I call out hypocrites equally. If Obama acted the way Trump does. Like a whiny baby at times. I wouldve called that out as well.
The biggest problem with using Trump to break the cycle. Is that hes not any different than any other politian aside from unafraid to run his mouth.
Want to break the cycle. Stop voting in hypocrites and party pushers. Human that don’t give a crap about other humans is why America is going down the tube.
@Seohn, I hope that’s true. Good for you if you mean that. And my perception of you is based on my interactions with you. You come across as a partisan shill. Don’t act like one if you don’t want that to be the perception of you.
@Seohn, I’m sorry I didn’t respond until now. I’ve been super busy and missed the notification.
But what you’re saying doesn’t really make sense. Of course Trump resisted the investigation. It was insulting, to both his ego and his reputation, and the people pushing for it clearly wouldn’t accept anything less than a conviction anyway, which means cooperating with the investigation would be like cooperating with your own executioners. The people pushing the hardest aren’t looking for evidence of what he did wrong, they’re looking for an excuse. That’s not honest, and I’d resist it as well.
If yet to hear any meaningful criticisms of his actual work as president. Everything is always a character attack, and while his character is sorely lacking, being a good person is not a prerequisite to be president.
@Seohn, it really truly does seem like you just can’t get past Trump being dishonest and rude. Those aren’t the important things to get hung up on.
@I Are Lebo, Yeah I think hes dishonest and rude. But dig through all my comments. Not once have I ever said thats grounds for his removal. It makes him a bad person and in my eyes not the best person for foreign relations (that thing thats necessary because as many people forget. We too are part of the world.)
In fact there are things I have liked the way he handled. For example North Korea. I’ve said many times now. And said years before Trump. Its about time someone told them off.
Why is it that criticizing the things one thinks Trump does poorly is immediately tagged as being entirely antiTrump or an attempt to have him removed?
Its like people supporting Trump immediately latch on to the negative comments about him ignoring the bad things Trumps says. Even though the vast majority of the news were targeting the negative things Trump himself has actually said on Twitter.
People are so fixated on what they view as antiTrump they ignore what the news is actually talking about.
@I Are Lebo, ... The only thing hes done that I believe its grounds for removal if there was absolute proof is his obstruction. (If it was you or I they would already have plenty of proof with what they have now. But him being president is the only thing saving him. Because they need no doubt for that reason only.
@I Are Lebo, I’ve literally seen people bitch that the news is running an antiTrump article. When all the article mentioned was the exact words that came from Trump himself.
Its as if they dont want the news to say anything about Trump unless its something good. They want the news to ignore Trumps twitter rants and insults he posts. And “only” talk about the positive things Trump does.
Thats not how it works. Trump knows being an ass publicly gets him attention. Thats why he continues to be one in public. If he didn’t want as much attention he wouldn’t act in a manner that draws it.
Go act like an ass in a Mall one day. Then as a control go back the next day and act nice. See which gets the most attention.
This is the primary reason why Trump gets more negative press than Obama did. Look at how differently the two act.
Drama sells. And Trumps practically a drama queen.
@I Are Lebo, Despite his attitude. No, I dont think its grounds for removal. But there are people who do. And its their right to think that way. Just like its the opposing sides right to think how they do.
What I find interesting is that MAGA is supposedly about making America as great as it was in yesteryear. But in yesteryear people were supposedly more respectful. Or so our elders would have us believe. Yet Trump acts nothing like the people that our grandparents would have us believe were around back when America was supposedly great. How is one suppose to return to that time of greatness if the people trying to bring it about dont even embody those times?
Unless of course by greatness they mean back to the beginning of the 70s when banks started to run amuck and screwing over everyone to the point that, here we are now. Insane student debts and various other corporate run government branches.
@Seohn, I never said that I thought you thought his rudeness was grounds for removal. I just said that it seems like you can’t get past it.
I criticize Trump all the time. There’s a massive middle ground between being biased for Trump to the point of ignoring or dismissing any wrongdoing, and being so biased against Trump that you gain Trump Derangement. Both extremes are bad.
The vast majority of the news coverage of Trump is from people who are deranged, they hate him so much. It’s not that people are ignoring what the news is actually talking about. The news coverage from places like CNN and MSNBC cover him as if he was a tyrannical overlord that must be overthrown while simultaneously presenting him as an inept buffoon that has to be removed.
Being charged with obstruction of justice requires proof no matter who you are. There is no proof currently to support this charge against Trump. The scenario is people looking for an excuse. If you harass someone until they hit you, all
you’ve done is set them up and show a complete lack of morals on your part. This ‘investigation’ is the same. The purpose of the Mueller investigation was to find proof of collusion between the Trump team and Russia. They found no evidence supporting the charge. The investigation is NOT and legally can not be a blanket investigation into any wrongdoing Trump has ever done. That’s constitutionally illegal, and morally bankrupt.
What people bitch about is irrelevant. People bitch about literally everything. But CNN and MSNBC will spend the majority or entirety of their airtime on Trump and not have one single positive thing to say about him. That radicalizes people, and the fervour actually has the opposite effect of pushing people away from what really is ‘fake news’, into being Trump supporters.
Trump’s twitter conflicts are not news. They do not matter. They won’t change. The people fixating on that nonsense are playing directly into Trump’s hands because that’s why he posts the way
It is not the right of people to push for impeachment for Trump’s rudeness because the law doesn’t support that course of action. That’s why they’re searching for any excuse to get rid of him. That’s why the investigation IS in fact a witch hunt, and it’s why Trump’s approval rating has never been higher.
The rabid hatred the left has for Trump will get him re-elected.
MAGA is an intentionally vague message that means basically whatever you want it to mean. Your argument about it is pointless. America was once the greatest country in the world for a variety of reasons. It no longer is. What you think made the country great is subjective, as is what you think will restore America to that position.
But you’re still missing my point. Being a polite, or even a good person is not a prerequisite for being the president. 24/7 negative coverage of a politician you don’t like is an unacceptable media practice that also backfires. And trying to impeach your leader simply because you
despise them as an individual sets a precedent that will destroy your country.
Nobody in the media seems concerned for the future, and that’s why the country is hurtling towards a second civil war. Nobody is listening, nobody is even attempting to get past their biases and preconceptions.
Mostly, I blame the left. Their double standards and holier than thou attitudes combined with their preconception that the right is evil (whereas the right mostly just see the left as misguided) precludes real dialogue form taking place.
Trump is a douchebag. But there are so many talking heads I could list that are worse. ‘Journalists’ that have no integrity towards truth and that’s why the media is not to be trusted. Look at how many major media outlets STILL talk about the “unacceptable behaviour of the Covington high school kids”. Or who continue to blame Trump for removing kids from their families caught crossing the border illegally.
Look at how many people who won’t hesitate to call Brett
Kavanaugh a rapist or gang rapist in spite of the overwhelming evidence showing Christine Ford to be a liar.
Truth has taken a back seat in politics for decades now. That’s not Trump’s fault, it’s why he got elected in the first place. He’s not practically a drama queen, he IS a drama queen. His personality, corrosive as it is, was found to be more desirable than another empty suit shilling for corporate interests over the well being of society at large.
The Clintons are corrupt to the core. The Democratic Party is run and staffed by virtue signalling hypocrites who stand for racism and divisiveness. The Republicans are little better, standing for stagnation and minimal government except when their views are being challenged.
But I’m sick of the debate. Until such time as Trump says or does things that affect more than just the hypersensitive, or until such time as actual evidence of wrongdoing comes to light, people need to shut the fück up about him already.
(Sorry for the essay)
@I Are Lebo, Yes technically there is supposed to be doubtless proof no matter who you are. But that’s not how the real world law works. They have put people in jail for obstruction for less. It is very clear his intent based on his very words was to try to slow the investigation. The only reason he’s not in jail now or charges arent being brought it’s because he’s the president and they need to know without a doubt. Example if they had a recording of him telling his employees to do certain things to slow the investigation as those employees claim they were told. But they didn’t follow through. That would be doubtless proof.
@I Are Lebo, The Mueller investigation was actually about Russian interference in the 2016 election. To which they found evidence of. While in the process they found evidence of other wrongdoings by Trump associates.
Or are you just ignoring that? It was the news and Trump that started calling it collusion. are you sure you are so far on the anti investigation side that its causing your bias to ignore the wrongdoings they did find?
Just because an investigation was started for different reasons. Doesn’t justify the wrongdoings they found or the laws broken they found in the process. Are you saying that it is OK for the people they found evidence of committing wrongdoings and they should be let go and they’re actions justified?
The problem is that some have become so focused on calling it collusion that they completely ignore the evidence of the findings of laws being broken.
@I Are Lebo, unfortunately until Trump starts tweeting without making rude or snide comments. People are going to report on it. It’s been happening long before Trump was president. When a famous person says something snarky the media latches onto it. A lot of people forget that let media’s been doing that for years, long before Trump. To give Trump a pass is to play favoritism.
@Seohn, there’s a legitimate argument that can be made about the legality of the investigation in the first place, and being noncooperative is not the same thing as obstruction. As for “they’ve put people in jail for less”, that’s not a valid argument. Innocent people have been convicted. If the argument is that others have been jailed for less, that’s tantamount to throwing away due process entirely. You can’t judge a system based solely on its failures.
No, the only reason he isn’t in jail is because no evidence of wrongdoing has been presented. Telling your employees you don’t like something isn’t obstruction. Firing them for not breaking the law is. If he didn’t follow through, then it was only talk. And like I keep coming back to, you are hung up on what he says and aren’t seeming to address anything he actually does. It’s like the whole “well I’m screwed” comment he allegedly made. It isn’t relevant. It doesn’t matter. It’s shït-talk.
What evidence did they find? Because not a
single conviction was related to collusion. They were all unrelated crimes by staffers. I’m not ignoring anything, and for what I sincerely hope will be the LAST time, I’m not a Trump supporter. Why are you ignoring that no evidence of collusion with Russia in regards to the 2016 election was found on the part of Trump? You (and so many others) keep alleging this based on literally nothing. What’s the evidence?
No, I’m saying that an investigation isn’t a fishing expedition. You don’t get to just ransack someone’s life because you don’t like them. I’m sure 99% of us have things in our pay we could be held accountable for, and it’s harassment to dig through someone’s life until you find something, anything, that you can use against them. It’s shameful, and more so, it sets an extremely harmful precedent.
If there is evidence of lawbreaking, they need to be held accountable. What evidence is there that Trump has broken laws?
Trump is never going to stop. Why the hell would he? They’re
playing straight into his hands.
I have the same contempt for the media outlets presenting “WHAT TRUMP SAID NOW” as a breaking news story as I do for them broadcasting school shooters, making them infamous and contributing towards copycat killers.
And are you being serious with that last comment? Literally no one ever has been aced with the level of obsessive coverage as Donald Trump. Far from giving him a pass, they won’t shut the fück up about him! The entire issue is that they are targeting him specifically. Why do you think he started going after CNN in the first place? They started that feud, not him. Have you seen how disgustingly rude Jim Acosta is, not only to Trump but to all of the other reporters present?
Don’t get me wrong, Sarah Sanders is a piece of shït and Sean Spicer was even worse, but Jim Acosta is a garbage human being.
They are playing favouritism AGAINST Trump, and have been doing so since the campaign began.
@I Are Lebo, So what if they are rude to Trump. Its not like Trump has the moral high ground. Not even the high ground to be fairly defended. Hes an ass and so is Jim Acosta. They both equally have the right to be an ass. Im not going to complain about people bad mouthing Trump when Trump doesn’t deserve the defense since he’s not being any better. He gets what he gives is how I see it.
I sometimes wonder if Trump thrives on conflict. Derives pleasure from aggressive tactics. Only now instead of business deals with only those in on the deals getting pissed. He has a much large audience watching him.
I chose not to defend Trump because that would mean admitting his action are somehow more noble than the people I’m defending him from. And as you have already said and we both know. He’s an asshole. So that makes him no better. . .
@I Are Lebo, .... Sure they could all tone it down a little. But its not like they started in on him unprovoked. Trump ran his campaign on shock factor. Hell most of the people voted for him purely because they wanted to shake things up.
Which begs the question. Are the people who voted for him because they wanted to shake things up stupid for not realizing how the news would take such shock. Or just such large hypocrites they believe only they are aloud to say and do shocking things and people shouldn’t react.
@I Are Lebo, No matter who you believe started the investigation. It started out as an investigation into Russian interference. Now the moment that they find anything towards Russian interference. To which they did. Anything they learn in the process has to also be investigated.
Of course. Word getting out that old Trump Jr. had a meeting with Russian people while theres currently an ongoing investigation would look suspicious too. So of course people around Trump that had contact with Russians would be caught up in it. It’s a snowball effect.
I agree that the media latched onto it and jump to conclusions before there was anything “officially” released. On that people can be upset. But that investigation was going to happen the moment Russian interference was suspected. And the other things it lead to being investigated were a result of evidence found proving their was interference.
The FBI investigates so many things this one isn’t much different.
@I Are Lebo, Take a step back and ask yourself (and I play this card only because its the same tactics people defending Trump use.)
If there had been Russian interference found when Obama was elected. And then someone leaked someone during his campaign close to Obama, such as a relative, met with people from Russia. You know as well as I that Republicans would be crawling out of the woodwork like Democrats have to pull the same thing on Obama as some people have with Trump.
Hell. Considering how many people still call him a muslim around here. They probably would’ve went even more batsh!t if it had been reported he met a nation some perceive as Muslim enemies.
Does it make it right? No. But at Least Obama would’ve given less food to the trolls.
@I Are Lebo, I am no longer mentioning anything about collusion. I don’t mention anything about collusion because the investigation wasn’t about collusion. Now that I know it wasn’t about collusion. I dont even call it that.
I dont think Trump himself colluded. In fact. Ive kinda said that from the begining. Ive always joke how hes more like a mafia boss. Who lets his underlings do the work and take the blame when sh!t hits the fan.
He may not have ever “directly” asked for help. Though he has certainly jokingly asked for it “to which you know is true” and if you deny it. Then I point out his asking them to “find those emails” as proof.
But that goes back to him digging his own grave. He runs his mouth so much that. His jokes make him look bad. It was a joke in poor taste that made him look guilty to many others.
Again I’ll play the same tactic that people defending Trump always use. If Obama had been asking Russia as a joke they would’ve been yelling collusion too.
@I Are Lebo, Really it comes down to this.
I don’t give a crap about the outcome over the mueller investigation or if collusion was found or not. What I laugh about are all the hypocrisies going on. I laugh at how big of a hypocrite people who defended Trump but yell birth certificate have become.
I derive humor from hypocrites who don’t even realize they’re being a hypocrite. And it amuses me to point it out.
I don’t think it’s right that the investigation became such a news spectacle and people jumped to conclusions. But people have the right to do that. Just like hypocrites have the right to be oblivious to their own hypocrisies. It is what it is.
It doesn’t matter if I think Trump committed obstruction or not. If any absolute proof ever comes out. We’ll know.... or maybe we wont. Maybe Trump will have it buried like he and his followers claim Hillary buried emails that made her guilty.
But hey. Conspiracys are only true until they are against your chosen leader I suppose
@Seohn, I don’t even understand what point you’re trying to raise with this rant. You’re all over the place.
The only thing I know for sure is that when you say the investigation wasn’t about collusion, you’re wrong. That was the explicit purpose of it. That the people running it turned it into a fishing expedition doesn’t change that the Mueller probe was charged with investigating possible collusion between Trump, his associates, and the Russian government.
Nothing else you posted really has any coherent point to it. My argument was never “oh boo hoo they are rude to Trump”, I was simply pointing out how the rudeness goes both ways yet the mainstream fixation is on Trump’s.
It really seems like you’re arguing out of both sides of your mouth, and I really do think you’re being rather dishonest in this conversation.