The only really incorrect thing Bill said was that "sex exists on a spectrum" (I paraphrased a little bit). Biological sex is not on a spectrum. However, it is also not binary (like some people think it is). In addition to the common XX and XY, there are also people with XXX and XXY and XYY and even other combinations of sex chromosomes. Sex is not on a spectrum, but it also is not as simple as male vs. female.
Gender is not the same thing as sex. As overused as the phrase may be, it truly is a social construct. The ideas of how men and women should act have nothing to do with biology and everything to do with the development of human culture. We could try to pretend that people who identify as a different gender than society assigns them is a recent trend, but that simply isn't true. There are examples of it in Chinese, Macedonian, and some Native American cultures. In my opinion, there is no reason NOT to treat these people with respect and understanding.
@Saxophonium, that's not true sex does exist on a spectrum the definition for male is a fairly arbitrary level of testosterone, and there are people who exist between what would be considered "male" or "female" who are called intersex, everything exist on a spectrum, skin colour, gender, height. Sex is no different
@Saxophonium, ... I'm sorry to say this , but you are wrong. The idea of how men and women should act developed through biology and the necessity to reproduce. Culture can only transform and change within the boundaries of biology. If you have a society that forces a 100%culture of homosexuality, that society would disappear. By the way, those people with extra and different combinations of chromosomes are .01% rare, and most of the time they die at an early age and can't reproduce. Gender is the same thing as sex, 99% correlation. Those rare cases, such as homosexuality and transgenderism require further study. We cannot conclude their existence change the norm.
@Saxophonium, So you're basically saying sex is less like a true spectrum and more like Pokemon type combinations?
@Saxophonium, heres my 2 cents. Personally I think there's a combination between social construct and biology. Men and women are built and wired differently as much as some would not want to believe. Because of testosterone and other such steps in development (such as the frontal lobe developing fully later than girls) they tend to gravitate towards different behavioral tendencies compared to the opposite sex. Nowadays women and men can both be breadwinners but the "men bring home the bacon and women stay home with kids" goes all the way back to hunter gatherer societies and it was due largely in part to biological differences. Women who carried children needed to be in a safer environment so they stayed at home or gathered resources in safe areas while men took part in more dangerous activities such as hunting.
Now on a seperate note I think there are only two genders that exist. You're either male or female. You can be a man with feminine tendencies, or a female who's a tomboy(1/2)
@HeroOfFunnypics, (2/2) but you're either one or the other. Even people who have gender dysphoria are one or the other. All this talk about there being a bunch of different genders is all bs. I think the big thing is people who make up new genders just have tendencies that fall in the other genders category so instead of just saying they have feminine tendecies for example they just make up a new gender which is dumb.
@Saxophonium, we've all done this debate on FP many times so I'll skip the debate this round. Just wanted to compliment you on the concise and comprehensive assessment in your first comment. Excellently presented.
@Uranusisbig, didn't want to do the whole debate thing but dude, (said regardless of gender/sex/ whatever) sax just boiled down a huge, hot button issue down to two paragraphs. Your right about the percentage but for two paragraphs, he did fine. As for the gender v. Sex bit, it's all about defining your terms. While it makes me cringe sometimes language is constantly evolving (currently at a very rapid rate) if people alter one of the two, generally synonymous words to have a more useful meaning, that's ok. Besides, the etymology of gender allows for that alteration. The rest of the bio stuff... to nuanced for this early in the morning. Maybe next time a pic sparks this debate.
@Canis Arktos, totally just caught myself assuming sax's gender.... sorry... the English language hasn't fully accommodated non specific pronouns. I don't care what you say, "they" is a plural and I refuse to use it for a single person.
@Canis Arktos, I totally get where you're coming from. It does often feel a little "weird" to talk about trans issues, especially when it comes to what it is and isn't okay to say. I think the best approach is to try and approach these kinds of situations with an open mind. But I do understand that it can be jarring for some who aren't used to it.
@Jdrawer, That's actually not a bad way to think about it! There's a rather large number of combinations, but some are much more rare than others. However, there's nothing to say that Nintendo (nature) won't ever come up with any other types (chromosome setups).
@Jdrawer, Hey, if I want to identify as a fairy type, that's my right!
@Saxophonium, to call people with Jacobs or turners syndrome a new sex is absolutely absurd. If they survive infancy what so ever they have serious problems. Almost always sterile. These are not new sexes they are birth defects. You either have an xx xy or a birth defect. It may hurt people's feelings, but those people don't have the birth defects so they can piss off
@Beede, my friend you are all of the wrong. Just because you have more testosterone or more estrogen doesn't make you somehow more or less of a male. Males have an xy, females have an xx and everything else is a birth defect.
@Canis Arktos, He did, but he is wrong. The thing is, people shouldn't have a right to define their own terms. The majority of people are not educated enough to understand that their implications are based in post modernism, so they assume giving in to people's demands is good. I understand language evolves, but it should be a natural process. In this case, you have .1% of the population trying to change terms that define the 99%. AND they are doing it forcefully by changing the law to force people say the pronouns. Is not okay.
@FrostyKnife, Yeah, I guess you do, but most Fairy-types don't /choose/ to do so: They have enough of an issue with Poison-types as is.
@Canis Arktos, "It" is singular and non specific.
@Uranusisbig, Is the trans community trying to make those laws in NY, or is a well-intentioned intern proposing something to his/her/its boss?
@Jdrawer, is not the trans community. It's neo-marxists political leaders who are trying to push a very specific agenda.
@Uranusisbig, Precisely. And what exactly is this "agenda"?
@Jdrawer, in a nutshell, everything that composes the state is corrupted, socially constructed, and uses its power to oppress people. All sciences, including logic and math, are instruments of the state and the elite to oppress you. It used to be that the rich oppressed the poor, but because capitalism has increased the welfare of everyone in the world, people weren't buying it. So they turned to those who feel victimized by society, in this case, trans community. That's why you see them march next to antifa... Look carefully at what they argue and you'll see it's all post modernism BS
@Saxophonium, yeesh, didn't know a joke could illicit such a response
@Uranusisbig, everyone is crying because they can't except the reality you informed them about. Keep on keeping on.
@CaptainMarko, what saddens me is that they may think I'm crazy, but then they will go on and say there are no biological differences between men and women.
@Jdrawer, Yeah it's not easy, they also have weaknesses to steel. At least they're protected against dragons though
@FrostyKnife, I don't understand that part of the allegory.
I'm studying mechanical engineering and biology isn't a prerequisite at least not at my university. William Nye has a masters in mechanical engineering which is why I bring that up. It's relevant you see
@Kylo shot first, I don't go to culinary school, but I can whip up a nice dish from time to time. My lack of education doesn't necessarily mean I'm automatically wrong.
Inb4 "gender is a social construct"
@RustyFapwagon, how dare you assume it isn't. My gender is "social construct" go to HECK !!1!1!!!1!!111!!!!!????!
@Mortimer Smith Sr, WOAH WATCH YOUR L A N G U A G E
@RustyFapwagon, but muh feelings
@RustyFapwagon, but what about me ,an apache attack helicopter, Facebook says I can be that so it must be true!
@RustyFapwagon, it sorta is. Gender is meant to assign gender norms, but it is a direct corillation to sex. There is male and female sex and male and female genders of what is expected of the species in order to survive. Gender and sex are binary. The only thing on the "spectrum" is sexuality as there is straight, gay, bi, and asexual.
@FreeWiFiVan, no, the definition of gender was very recently changed to suit the needs of mentally ill people that think they are something they genetically cannot be.
Also called it.
@RustyFapwagon, haha. Ya got me. But in my defense I do only think there are two genders. I go to school on the west coast which is a more "liberal" part. Some students wanted to start some innitiative where at the start of every conversation to had to say your gender and prefered pronouns. thank God that never went anywhere.
The spectrum just means that some people may identify as more masculine or more feminine than others, not that there are 100s of genders. It's that people are trying to put labels on each and every point on the spectrum. There's nothing wrong with being a biological male, that likes make up, but still thinks they're a male.
@Pntgirl95, What, if you know, is that label?
@Jdrawer, Just about any of the non-binary genders, they don't all need a label. I suppose they are labeled so people can feel they have an identity but not all of them need to have a name per say. A person can fall anywhere on the spectrum and it may change a lot. Who really knows what someone else feels.
@Pntgirl95, I don't think a nonbinary term is the correct one. Since they're a biological male who thinks they're male, would they just not be a (cisgender) male? A nonbinary term would imply that they're not wholly male, which leads to confirmation that "liking makeup makes you not wholly male." That's kinda problematic, isn't it?
@Jdrawer, well there's a difference between biological gender which is the chromosome you have and gender identity so it's not the least bit problematic
@Pntgirl95, I recognize that, but your definition implies that liking makeup makes you less male, so I would say that's pretty problematic.
@Jdrawer, well it's not a masculine trait it's more feminine so it falls closer to the feminine side of the gender spectrum. I never said it made them less male you drew that conclusion yourself
@Pntgirl95, Is it a more feminine trait, though? And no, you were the one implying it by saying our cis-male makeup user was nonbinary.
@Jdrawer, oh sweetie you asked for a label so I gave you am example of some, never said it covered the male who likes make-up. And yes it is more feminine actually.
@Pntgirl95, I specifically asked for the label that specific person, "sweetie."
@Jdrawer, oh well I misread your comment honey. I apologize :)
@Pntgirl95, You good, fam.
CAUSE MY SEX JUNK IS SO OH OH OH MUCH MORE THAN EITHER OR OR OR