Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. - Martin Luther King, Jr
I'm fine with protesting for justice, all the more power to you, but when you go from using words to violence, you become just as terrible as the people you're speaking out against.
@The white dude, There is no steal on stolen land. White America as never answered for the abuse of minorities, Native and Black americans especially. This Country foundation is built on violent protest yet take some arbitrary moral high ground when the same happens back. There has been peacefully protests for the entirety of the United States history. It has all been ignored. But since you have some out of context quote of MLK you must be an expert. So what is there to do when peace protest is ignored?
@The white dude, By any means necessary. -Malcolm X
@sexy grandpa, to be honest I'm not sure if you're just ignorant, or intentionally ignoring history while cherry picking information, to support your own stance and beliefs here. Because I'm lazy and don't care to write a book's worth of information for you, just know that I share a vary similar view on the topic as Sexy Homunculus.
@Soser5, and which of these two is more often remember fondly
I don't care if you're a white person mad at the outcome of a hockey game or a black person angry at the death of an unarmed black man. You can be pissed off all you want, but the moment you use that as a justification to vandalize an innocent person's property or loot and burn stores that had nothing to do with what made you mad in the first place you become a disgusting thug making the situation worse. (1/6)
"But this is just like the Boston Tea Party!"
Oh right, because protesting your government for unjust taxation and destroying the specific product of that taxation to prove your point is totally the same as protesting the actions of a racist cop by ransacking businesses that had no involvement with that racist cop's actions. (2/6)
"But material things are replaceable!"
That's true, but no one deserves to be placed in a position where you have to replace your material things in the first place. Protests and riots are breaking out across the country right now; how would you like it if one spilled into your neighborhood or apartment complex and people looted and burned down your place of residence? Can you legitimately brush it off saying "things are just things" or would you be as devastated as the small business owners whose establishments were destroyed and are now having an even more difficult time surviving this already hard period we're dealing with in this pandemic-fueled recession? (3/6)
"But Target's a big billion dollar company so this won't really hurt them!"
Yea, but what about the people who worked at that Target? They're getting paid hourly and probably just lost a whole entire day of work after that store got trashed so badly, and who knows how long it'll take before that store is up and running again. Like the innocent small business owners whose sources of income were wrecked the Target employees will now face more hardships dealing with these already tough times. And let me just say as someone who actually does currently work at Target in a seasonal position if that happened to the store I worked at I'd be HORRIFIED. I honestly don't know if I'd have a job left to go back to, and even if I did I don't think I'd feel safe working there anymore. (4/6)
The fact is George Floyd was murdered by a sick SOB named Derek Chauvin. Even though Floyd was accused of counterfeiting that is still no excuse for having his neck being kneed like that. If he really had been resisting arrest like the police stated (which has pretty much been debunked) then maybe there would be a very small sliver of justification for that. But there isn't, and because of that Chauvin was fired, charged with murder and is even being investigated by the FBI. People have every right to be angry and sad at the injustice that occurred. Too often police use violent force against POCs and even whites sometimes. When they do they need to be held accountable. I sympathize with every American who wants to use their freedom of speech to condemn the atrocity that occurred in Minneapolis. (5/6)
But that does not mean you can deface other people's property or go around burning and robbing businesses that weren't affiliated with that in the first place. Like the people who took part in the Boston Tea Party you should be reasonable and careful in how you react. The focus on their protest was on the government who initiated unjust taxation and the product associated with it, not mom and pop stores and bigger businesses employing lots of people during a time of economic hardship.
Protesting peacefully doesn't make you a thug. Destroying private property and stealing from innocent hardworking people does. (6/6)
@Sexy Homunculus, That should be a column in a newspaper
@Sexy Homunculus, I heard that Target isn’t going to reopen. It’s not worth the cost for them.
@groundpounder04, not surprised. Thank you for letting me know
@Sexy Homunculus, but y is target being attacked did they kill that guy? Or do they just have a bunch of shït that ppl want to steal
@bobbylupo, it was on the same block as the police station I think, and people just saw an opportunity to use the protests to their advantage and cause break ins and rob a place.
@Sexy Homunculus, you seem more upset about riots that aren't not about the protests than the actual MURDER. The riots that that have been instigated by and from filmed evidence, started by the police undercover. What do you expect would happen, for years there were peaceful protested in places like Ferguson and Charlottesville and even kneeling at football games. Nothing happened. Eventually people are going to fight back. Like the Boston Tea Party.
@sexy grandpa, I can be upset at both, and I am. And if I'm being honest I think I probably am more mad about the riots, and here's why:
Since Floyd's murder at least 8 other people have lost their lives and millions if not billions of dollars have been lost by innocent small business owners and even regular people because of these riots. Floyd's murder was bad enough already, but when you've got 8 times the death toll and so much money lost when we're already in this recession brought on by COVID19 I'd argue that's much, much worse.
@sexy grandpa, If there really are undercover police officers that are starting these riots (or any riots for that matter) they're not just being disgusting thugs, they are the scum of humanity and an absolute disgrace to this country. Anybody who purposely starts a riot to hurt innocent people is terrible, but when someone in law enforcement does that it's absolutely horrendous and inexcusable.
It is a shame that after so many years nothing has really happened to stop from this from continuing. But again, that still does not justify hurting innocent people to bring about this change. Think about it, how would you feel if a bunch of these people (and I mean rioters, not those who are legitimately protesting peacefully) beat you up, stole everything you owned and then burned down your house or place of businesses. I sincerely hope that never happens to me, you or anybody, but sadly that has been happening across the country these last few days.
@sexy grandpa, And as for the Boston Tea Party are you aware the people who took part in that went to great lengths to minimize additional property damage? Their grievance was with the British government for unjust taxation, and to prove that point they only focused on the product of that taxation: the cargoes of tea owned by the British East India Company (which was basically a commercial extension of the British government, not some small privately owned business). The only thing destroyed except for the tea was a single padlock, and they actually had it replaced the following day. None of the tea was looted either. After the tea was destroyed they swept the decks clean and put things back in place that had been moved around.
The point I'm making is that anyone who tries to justify what's currently happening by comparing it to the Boston Tea Party is doing so either out of sheer ignorance or sheer idiocy.
@Sexy Homunculus, George's death isn't a one time thing though. Its is systemic. These cops have been getting away with literal murder for years with video evidence against them. And imagine what they did before camera phones. Who do you can when the police breaks the law. I get that your capitalist minded dude but "no amount of money has bought a second of time". If someone you love was murdered and the murder was on tape, and they still didn't lock them up would you care about billionaires?
@sexy grandpa, I get that. I'll admit in the past I didn't really think of it as much, but I'm getting a better understanding now of how systemic it is. And I've said before everybody has a right to be angry about it, but the moment you use that anger as an excuse to rob and hurt innocent people you're making the problem worse.
If someone I loved was murdered and the murder was on tape, and they still didn't lock them up I'd be sad and angry, but I wouldn't vent my anger by looting or hurting/raping/killing someone who had nothing to do with it. That's just plain wrong. How are you not getting that?
And I wouldn't care about billionaires because I'd have no reason to. What exactly do billionaires even have to do with this?
@Sexy Homunculus, money aside. The looting again isn't apart of the protest. These are third parties taking advantage of the chaos. If you look at the looting videos you won't see anyone with signs or things protestors would have. And I'm not saying condone, or condemn the violence that occurs but to understand. This isn't one love one it a pattern. And protesting peacefully has failed over and over. So how would you say they should protest? And before you say anything but violence please remember that no oppress has ever ended peacefully. Not the american revolution, not slavery, not the Holocaust. So what is the answer when peacefully protests are ignored?
@sexy grandpa, protesting peacefully has not failed over and over. It brought independence to India under Gandhi, the success of the Civil Rights Movement under Martin Luther King Jr., and the end of apartheid under Nelson Mandela. There's a reason people remember them much more fondly than Malcolm X.
With the American Revolution and the Holocaust there was no other option but to fight a war because all other avenues had failed. I think with slavery it could eventually have been outlawed in the south as it had been in the north, although I'll admit I'm just speculating here and don't mean to go on a tangent.
There are still plenty of options available to end systemic racism. Lawsuits, campaigning, public pressure and many more options are available to bring it to an end without it becoming violent and hurting or killing innocent people.
Violence when there are alternatives is immoral. Violence when there are no alternatives is survival.
@Sexy Homunculus, dude you seriously need to take a deeper dive in history. And totally hypocritical stance that you're take. White american has never choose the peace option in there history even if you there was no option. Such as the trial of tears. American has active abused these minorities throughout its existence and now trys to have some moral high ground. Its laughable.
Look up black wall street
Look up the forced sterilization of native american women the went on until 1996
Look up how they treated MLK the former most man in america
Then look at police brutality we see now. I promise you will see similarities. Abuse of power from the police. Media portraying it has though they are thugs and savages. Look beyond your narrow perspective if you're going to take some arbitrary moral high ground
@Racist Arab, the protestors should be the ones to fück up anyone they see looting and vandalizing shït cause those ppl r the ones giving them a bad name and giving the cops the excuse to be so overzealous with the violence
@sexy grandpa, So when I point how successful peaceful protests have been in the past you don't even acknowledge it? That's laughable.
You're definitely right about the atrocities that have been committed to people of color in the past. Those were horrible and we should never forget they happened. And I think it's important that we keep talking about them so that hopefully nothing like that ever happens again.
But what I'm trying to argue here is that while it's justified to use violence against oppressive forces in power when nothing else has worked that does not justify using violence against innocent people that are not part of those oppressive powers. Can we at least agree on that?
It's like I asked you before: what if a bunch of rioters assaulted you, robbed you, and torched your business or even where you live? You had nothing to do with George Floyd's murder, and if you could brush it off then I'll admit you're a bigger man than I am because I'd be devastated and my
@sexy grandpa, life would be wrecked. Wherever you are I really hope none of that falls on you and your loved ones.
@Sexy Homunculus, first don't mention Gandhi, you clearly don't know that man was a pedophile and racist. But they don't teach that part. You are nitpicking these movements and definitely not acknowledging the ends. MLK wasn't just protesting basic civil and human rights. That is how they dress it up. He was a socialist radical. The movement wasn't successful, do a little more research. He was murdered by the government. Then the Black panther came... And were murdered by the government. For about 30 years the government was murdering Black leaders/organizers. Those movement weren't successful they were give basic human rights and then kill for asking for more. I agree that violence against innocents are wrong. I would ask you if you actually seen the protests in person? They are peaceful. No riots, no looting. Third parties are responsible and should be held responsible.
I would be upset that my business was ruined. As a society we should hold those accountable for those actions. The point is that we have failed to do so when Black and Native Americans are the victims. So if we are to build a fair republic, White America needs to be held accountable as well.
The police constant violent response to peacefully protests needs to be addressed. No one is talking about the violence that is happening to the protestors. Go to a protest and see. The police are the aggressors.
@sexy grandpa, I've never heard of Gandhi being a Pedo and a rapist. Still, that shouldn't discount the fact that he led India to freedom. Everyone does good and bad things; personally I think if the good you do outweighs the bad you do then that should be celebrated and remembered. Same goes to MLK.
I'm really glad you agree that violence against innocents is wrong. That's the main thing I was trying to convey through all my comments. And I haven't seen these particular protests in person (I did once take part in a small student protest in college but that was only against rising tuition fees), although one of these days I'd like to. There was actually one where I live a few days ago, and I was originally planning on going but based on the things people posted on the Facebook event I got really nervous about going. I'm glad I didn't go because while those people were mostly peaceful there was some violence that did break out later. Maybe one of these days there'll be another
@Sexy Homunculus, peaceful protest going on where I live, and if the conditions are safe I really would like to check it out.
Take care of yourself and stay safe my man. Peace✌
@Sexy Homunculus, can confirm. I have a buddy that works at Target. He absolutely did not get paid when his store closed down. Thanks rioters.
I’m guessing I’ll get downvoted to hell here, but I don’t think the riots are totally unfounded. As a white man, I gotta say I’m pretty sad that cases like George Floyd still happen after such publicity surrounding other similar incidents, so I can only imagine how scared and angry young black men would feel. That being said, the destruction of businesses and private property is just pushing everyone back, and making the situation exist on an even stronger racial line when it should be about justice.
@Paranoid Sushi, the protests are not unfounded the riots are bullshjt and looters should be shot. They are beating people to death in the streets and laughing about it then moving on to the next store. Just a bunch of rabid animals wilding it up for free shjt. Drop em and let em lay.
@Paranoid Sushi, I hear ya. As a white man, I will never fully understand what it’s like to be black. All I know as a fact is that no matter how many strongly written letters or quiet peaceful protests are attempted, clearly racial injustice is still a huge issue. So what options are we giving them at this point? A knee wasn’t ok. A shirt wasn’t ok. So is it really white people’s place to tell black people how they can and can’t protest? As long as they don’t hurt people in retaliation, then I’ll sympathize with them at the very least
@Paranoid Sushi, I think we should always encourage protests because it encourages discussion and change.
Riots encourage tighter restrictions and death of Innocents.
@jdopps13, no one's telling anyone they can't protest. It's the rioting, arson, theft and assault that are going on that's being looked down on. Hurting innocent people out of anger just turns you into a monster too.
@Paranoid Sushi, it’s looking like these riots are being started by antifa, not the protesters
@jdopps13, thebproblem isnt protests peacefully its the rioters. No one says they cant peacefully stand to the side and hold their signs the problem os the raping, the murdering, the burning, and the looting. Honestly i feel like i shouldnt have to explain this.
@jdopps13, I really resent comments like yours.
What you said is completely racist.
In a world without racism, a black men feels no different then a white man.
You perpetuate racism because you don’t understand what discrimination feels like.
I have been discriminated against, and I know the times where I haven’t been discriminated. Human experiences aren’t some mysterious wonder you’ll never experience. You as a white man want to feel discrimination? Literally go anywhere in the world where you are a minority. Egypt, India, China, Japan, Brazil, Ecuador, The Middle East. Anywhere dude.
Understanding discrimination isn’t hard.
These riots, aren’t justified. Peaceful protests are fine.
An innocent was was wrongfully killed, so let’s go destroy 100 other innocent people?
How about instead of going after innocent people, destroying property, stealing, and killing people; you do something useful and go after THE ACTUAL MURDERERS.
@Paranoid Sushi, the riots are totally unfounded because the majority of the rioters aren’t black people. They are the pos, basement dwelling, neon white antifa losers. Also, the places being burned to the ground and looter are majority owned by black or immigrant businesses people. AS IN THEY ARE LITERALLY DESTROYING MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES. You know the ones already struggling thanks to the lockdowns. Then you got the idiot media now claiming it is white supremacist who snuck in and started the riots and idiots celebrities posting bail for the rioters because orange man bad. So no the riots and looting is completely unjustified.
@jdopps13, sure you can, just go to China, you’ll experience in your face, unapologetic racism. You will be a second class citizen and lack basic rights and privileges that the Chinese around you enjoy.
@jdopps13, I believe, when one is radical enough to take to the streets, that ideals are probably more important to you. Putting ideals before people is how revolutions can start, be justified, and end.
Basically trying to say that a person's job can come second to human rights abuses, not saying that in this particular case though
@Hot Coffee, I’m just talking about America. I understand it’s different in a communist run China
@ Michishige Shou, Whoever downvoted you is a asinine, moronic, inbred simpleton incapable of rational and logical thinking, with zero common sense and decency and an inability to feel compassion.
@ Michishige Shou, honestly. Seeing all these small businesses destroyed really sinks my stomach. Imaging working hard for your entire life just to see it all going up in flames
@Noctobo, I Couldn’t agree more with you.
Every single friend I have, was already hurt by the pandemic.
Corona Virus crippled them.
Now imagine after being crippled by the pandemic, an angry mob destroys everything else.
It’s completely awful these people were innocent, had their livelihood taken away. I don’t understand why people couldn’t do the right thing and seek justice for Mr Floyd. I’d even support putting those cops to the death penalty if it meant sparing all those innocent people.
@Paranoid Sushi, I see people keep talking like it’s a fact that the George Floyd death was racially motivated, probably because the media loves to push the race narrative and people go along with whatever they hear on tv. It’s just as likely that this was just an a-hole cop and had nothing to do with race but since it fits the narrative let’s just roll with it instead of waiting for the facts to come out. The cop was fired and will undoubtedly go to jail yet thousands are protesting nationwide and cities are burning, all based on a narrative pushed by our media. That should scare people. Not this “you should be scared to go outside if you’re black because there are racists and white supremacists around every corner” bullshît.
@Paranoid Sushi, I’m a police recruit, attending academy next month. I totally agree. Police brutality and racism needs to be addressed, the protests bring attention to the issue and hopefully some reforms are implemented. However violence, arson and looting have no justification and take away from the cause rather than support it
@JC839, antifa is perpetrating the violence.
Gonna be a rude awakening when they need to buy groceries from the place they just burned down. Dimwits.
It's easier to mock the bad actors than it is to address the reason why they're rioting.
@I cut your face, well the businesses didnt have a damn thing to do with why they are rioting. And the business owners didnt have a damn thing to do with why they are rioting. The community that they are burning down didnt have a damn thing to do with why they are rioting. George Floyd didnt have a damn thing to do with why they are rioting. At this point the reason they are rioting is to get a free tv and a pair of kicks.
@I cut your face, the cops that did it are arrested for murder and assisting a murder (forget the term). They are gonna get killed in jail for both being cops and revenge. Justice is being served why do people need to burn down low income housing and stores in the ghetto? If you got a problem burn down a government building not people's life savings
edit: you shouldn't burn any building down. just know where blame should go
@JCtheWise, it was only 1 of 4 arrested, and only after public outrage. It isn't justice if you have to beg for it.
@mycatsanahole, destroying private property is obviously a bad thing, but people don't want to talk about the injustice that was killing a handcuffed unarmed black man. They only want to point fingers at a few pissed off people burning buildings because when they tried to kneel they were called un-American. If they can't win no matter what, then they'll do whatever they want to have their voices heard. They should be torching government buildings, but the rioting shouldn't distract from the fact that justice hasn't been served yet for the death of an innocent man.
@I cut your face, they don't arrest cops after any event. They always do an investigation. They also take them off the street and have them do clerical work during investigation. The others are being investigated but the people doing the investigation said "it doesn't look good". They will be. They would have been arrested without outrage as long as the video existed. They need proof before they can arrest.
If you killed someone that way after being in a fight with them the only reason they might arrest you is to make sure you don't leave town normally they just tell you they are investigating you and don't leave town.
This is normal police protocal when it comes to a murder 2 case.
@JCtheWise, the worst part is that none of this would have happened if the video wasn't recorded. They would have gotten off scot free. And cops shouldn't be held to lower expectations than the public. The average citizen would have been arrested on the spot. They should have been too.
@I cut your face, first you are correct. Without any evidence they would have gotten off. He said she said is not proof. Witnesses might have been enough to get them arrested but unlikely. That's pretty normal if you get in a bar fight and kill a guy you could easily get off by claiming self defense. That's imperfect society.
Second no if there's a fight and someone dies you are taken to the police station, questioned, then as long as your not leaving town or a danger to society you are let go while they investigate. That is normal. If they find you did it they arrest you then.
@I cut your face, everyone i know and have seen have condemned what happened to Mr. Floyd. Ive not heard a single person try to defend the cops that did it. Also all the police i have talked to condemn what was done to him. Everyone is talk about it. Everyone would change it if they could. Rioting isnt about him. Rioting is about a few people mad because they suck at life. Their poor decision making is what has got them where they are and they are mad that other people (black, white,yellow,red, purple ect) have doone better with their lives and they take any opportunity to tear down everyone else and gettting free shjt in the process by looting is just a bonus. Protesting a wrong is acceptable. Rioting and looting and assaulting people is not.
@I cut your face, sure floyd died of a heart attack, the people who did it are now facing prosecution and jail time. The systems working as intended.
@I cut your face, Except every word you said was completely and utterly wrong.
You perpetuate the racism yourself.
So what’s the excuse for every non-black rioter then? Your voice can’t be heard so instead you steal someone else’s?
You’re brain dead. I have more respect for the armed African Americans peacefully protesting and the other police officers calling for Justice then I will ever have for louses like you.
How about people do the right thing, and right a wrong; instead of doing 1,000 acts of vengeance.
George Floyd was unjustly killed, so in your eyes the best response is MORE UNJUST LOSS OF LIFE?
The unjust loss of life is what caused this. And you think even more is going to make everything better?
I hope that you are just a moron. Otherwise you are downright evil.
@I cut your face, It would appear the words of Martin Lurther were wasted on you. Damn shame.
@LaDarkProphet, "You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom." -Malcolm X
Or perhaps you would prefer "Letter from Birmingham Jail" April 16, 1963 from Reverend King himself.
@I cut your face, "Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love... Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding.
The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Again, it seems the words of king were lost on you. And there is a reason why Du Boise and Malcom X were not as popular or as influential.
@I cut your face, Militant activists and violent criminals detract from the cause. It does not promote it, but harms it. Study after study has shown this. I recommend reading kings later works and watching his i have a dream speech, in its entirety, on YouTube. Might learn a thing or two. And perhaps read some of Ghandi as well. Yea sure Ghandi also wrote some questionable stuff, but do try to look at the whole picture ok? And try not to let your violent bias get the best of you.
@LaDarkProphet, you seem to misconstrue my understanding of their anger as an endorsement of violence. Perhaps climbing off your high horse will give you a more down-to-earth perspective.
@I cut your face, you’re missing the point and mistaking the argument for virtue signalling.
Excusing the violent riots with appeals to frustrated desperation or any other emotional response is a faulty argument because the reality is that responding with random violence to unrelated persons or property to police brutality or racially motivated injustice is not only morally and practically wrong on its own merits, but it encourages more police brutality and racially motivated hatred.
Burning down the town because a cop murdered a black person is going to make cops MORE likely to use inappropriate/overwhelming force, not less likely. We are seeing this all over the place in the last week.
The rioters are making things worse, not better. Their behaviour is inexcusable.
@I cut your face, Shame you’re too weak to do the right thing.
Weak people lash out in frustration, when they don’t have the strength or the desire to do what’s right.
I pity you. Even though you disgust me.
Seek justice for those who didn’t do anything wrong.
George Floyd and every person suffering right now should get justice, not more hardship as their buildings burn.
@I cut your face, Btw. What’s causing the most harm right now?
Not that you have the courage or honesty to actually reply.
Is it the rioters, and looters running amok trashing everything in their path? Is it the very same people so outraged about an innocent person’s death they cause dozens more?
The immediate problem is the people currently perpetuating the destruction.
People like you only deepen the wound, and you can’t even admit it.
Cops kill more white people than black people, despite black people getting arrested for murder more. There. I said it.
@Captain Magma, gotta look at per capita stats. There are a lot more white people than black. However, more data is needed like how often are confrontations with each race based on the local population and how often are guns drawn on certain demographic within the population.
@jabopples, No dice dude. White people are in the most danger in every situation.
Until you learn, and people like you specifically learn to see the human race as one race, there will always be racism.
Seek Justice for George Floyd, not the burning, looting, and deaths of unrelated people.
@ Michishige Shou, What evidence do you have for that claim? "White people are in the most danger in every situation." I'm aware of the fact that there is only one race and that is obviously the goal, but until we get there we need to collect data to identify the current issue, or if there even is one. I'm not arguing for riots, and I don't think a lot of people are.
@jabopples, I agree that you should always get data down to the lowest point (city, neighborhood, etc) and I don't really like my statement either because it blankets the whole country. I'm just countering the narrative that there's an epidemic of cops killing black people because it's straight up not true. I'd be willing to bet that it is pretty close if you go per capita, and if it is higher black, I think it would be justified because they commit the most murders while still being in the minority. In my mind, if there's one crime that would make a cop more likely to shoot someone regardless of race, it would be murder
@jabopples, Only every statistic ever.
For example, Whites are the most target of the most Crimes, get killed the most often, and are usually brushed under the rug.
Everyone knows George Floyd was unjustly murdered, but name a single person who died in the riots. I can find pictures everywhere of people getting killed in the crossfire and nobody cares.
Almost like there’s only an outrage when it only happens to the minority of the population.
@Captain Magma, I understand that, media narratives can be annoying. The per capita rate has black people almost 3 times more likely to die from a police confrontation than white people. That's off statista. However, that could be due to a lot of factors including crime frequency, increased interaction in predominantly black neighborhoods, poor communities, lack of education, or even prejudice. That's why I think it's important to gether more data and we should push for more policies that allow us to collect the data to accurately assess the reasoning. I think we can both agree that what happened was horrible and the officers involved should see justice, as should all officers who abuse their power. I think we just need more data to find the root of the issue and if it's a race issue or a training and policy issue. Also, the per capita stats vary widely from precinct to precinct and even state to state.
@jabopples, interestingly, despite African American people being like 13% of the population, they keep fairly competitive crime statistics.
The most murder and manslaughter charges for example.
Despite that, people like you perpetuate they are in the most danger.
Despite all evidence you have to skew to prove your point. Sure, maybe they are in the most danger in gang infested areas where shootouts happen between rival gangs and police, but every other statistic shows the white majority in the most danger at all times.
You know who kills the most white people? Other white people.
You know who kills the most African Americans? Plot twist. African Americans.
But hey, do your best to skew the data. Really get that outrage going.
Who cares about doing the right thing. Let’s just get more people killed and ruin as many lives as we can.
@ Michishige Shou, You can't compare gross population when counting police shooting and then use per capita when looking at crimes. You're changing the data to fit the narrative. Either look at total crimes and total fatal shootings which would show that black people are the 2nd most likely to die despite committing a smaller number of violent crimes. Or you look at per capita for both which would show you that black people die more frequently from police shootings based on population size of both demographics, while also committing more crimes than most (which may account for the discrepancy). You can't have it both ways. Plus over 90% of black violent crimes are black on black violence, probably due to poverty and gang violence.
@ Michishige Shou, you seem to be the only one outraged. My point was that we should compare all data proportionately to get a better grasp at the issue, or if there even is one, and that we should collect more data to better understand the situation before creating any sort of storyline. The right thing to do is correct assess the situation and come up with appropriate solutions if they are needed. Rioting isn't a solution. You're telling me white people are always in the most danger in every situation? Then you tell me black people kill the most, and who do they kill? Other black people, according to you and multiple statistics. By that logic (yours) alone you would conclude that black people are more likely to be murdered and therefore in more danger. Then you can go even further and tell me that white people are in more danger always, like during the Rwandan genocide? Come on those blanket statements are very easy to poke holes into.
@jabopples, except that you are wrong as usual.
457 white people were shot to death by police in 2017.
223 blacks were shot to death in the same year.
So the fact of the matter is more white people get shot by police. They make up 46% of the police fatalities. Black people take up 22%.
This is particularly interesting as it mirrors the crime statistics.
Black people do half the amount of crime white people do.
But hey. Good job skewing the data. I knew you had it in you. Gotta keep your narrative up.
@ Michishige Shou, there are over 250,000,000 white people in the US compared to 45 million. Pick one or the other, totals or per capita either way you'll get the same result. Yes twice as many white people get shot, but there's 5x more white people than black people. If all things were even you'd expect 5x more deaths of white people. Put it this way let's say your randomly eating M&Ms out of a jar blindfold. If there were 1000 m&m and 750 were blue and 250 were yellow. What color do you think you'd pick the most.
@jabopples, except that I just proved you wrong. Regardless of how you spin it, 46% of fatal police shootings are white. The graph I used never said anything about who or why they were shot or if they resisted.
You think you have a point, but you really don’t when African Americans do the most murder/manslaughter in the entire country despite being 16% of the population, and more white people get shot by police.
See the gross there? Blacks less crime in general. 4,900 murders compared to 4,100 or so despite being 1/4th the size.
These are the total numbers. Not percentages
At least be honest enough to admit more white people die. Cause right now you just completely lying.
This is despite African Americans having the same murder statistics of a group 4x their size.
@ Michishige Shou, I have never said that more white people don't die! I've agreed with you from the start. Yes more total white people die. There are also more white people in the US, so in order to compare two different populations, you need to standardized it. It's just basic statistics. You don't even know my opinion on the topic. All I've argued for is standardized comparisons among populations.
@jabopples, except you compare the crime rates for that. And when it comes@to homicides, 16% of the population kills more people then the other 84% of the population.
That 16% of the population makes up 22% of fatal police shootings.
Nothing about that is particularly surprising.
@ Michishige Shou, Yeah I know black people commit more crimes proportionally. Which means that they're more likely to be in situations with the police, and more likely to end up in a police shooting. I haven't ever argued that. I actually said it was probably a contributing factor if you read what I said. My only point was to take more data so we can see if it is a major factor or if there are other factors in play. Next step should be to identify why black people are more likely to commit violent crimes and solve that issue. Still your statement that white people are always in more danger in every situation is wrong.
Look at the links I sent you dumbass.
Not proportionally. Blacks are the single highest group when it comes to murders by total. They commit the highest amount. Even MORE then the TOTAL of white people.
Im talking totals. I even sent you the statistics dude. What are doing with your life right now.
@ Michishige Shou, lol you realize that if their totals are higher then their proportion would also be higher? So I'm still right, they are more likely to commit a crime in proportion to their population. Do you know what a proportion or fraction is? No offense I'm just genuinely wondering because it seems like you're being hostile and arguing with yourself. I've never made any claims you disagree with lol.
@jabopples, Man you are stupid.
Read the links I sent you.
In the links I sent, White people did some 5 million crimes TOTAL, to blacks like 2.2.
When it came SPECIFICALLY TO MURDERS, and homicides, the black people DID MORE then the ENTIRE WHITE POPULATION.
So the 16% black population did LESS CRIME but more murders then the 75% or SO majority white people.
I swear you either ignoring the links I send you, or you just getting dumber
@ Michishige Shou, lol dude I know 🤣 you keel saying things I'm not arguing lol. Here call me so I can explain it to you.
Use fb messager
@jabopples, I’ll pass. You aren’t smart enough to say things even close to accurate. I would have to make a Facebook account to even talk to you.
The total crimes of black people is less then whites, the murders that blacks are guilty of are HIGHER then whites.
This is why the crime thing isn’t accurate cause white peoples do 2x the crime, but are Slightly lower in homicides.
If 16% of the population is shot dead by cops 22% of the time, it’s within the margin of error.
@ Michishige Shou, That's very ignorant to assume I have nothing to add. A broken clock is right twice a day and you always can learn something from any interaction. I extended my hand and offered to talk to find common ground. Which I'm sure we would have. If you want to hide behind the keyboard that's fine, but just admit it. We can use Google meets or zoom if that works better for you.
@ Michishige Shou, I understand literally everything you've mentioned and have not argued any of the statistics.
@ Michishige Shou, I'll give you my cell phone at this point
@jabopples, Except that I have learned nothing from you, you haven’t linked a single statistic, nor can you be bothered to check statistics to understand what I’m even referencing.
A broken clock is also wrong the other 1,438 minutes a day. This is where you sit currently.
@ Michishige Shou, then call me to prove me wrong.
@ Michishige Shou, you do know that they can be both proportionally more likely to commit murder and also have the highest total?
@ Michishige Shou, we are both correct, you just don't know it yet lol
@ Michishige Shou, trolls hate the light huh...
@jabopples, Btw. The Covid Statistic I just saw was rather interesting.
49% white. 25% black. Guess what it is.
The black percentage always seems a little high for their population. 9% higher then the relative population of 16%. Whites just seem to be lower then what they are relative to the population.
You’ll try to convince me of course that somehow I’m skewing the total population naturally.
@ Michishige Shou, ok cool on the covid stuff. It's probably because white people have more access to office jobs and worked from home while black people worked in the "essential worker" spots. But yeah it seems black people are more susceptible to COVID.
@jabopples, Yea, unless you can provide evidence for that, a statistic, any kind of proof on your conjecture, I don’t buy it. There’s plenty of White people who are poor and don’t have stay at home jobs.
Whites make up the majority (around 70%)
They have almost double the poor, but a 12% lower rate of poverty total. Yet comparing Blacks to Hispanics, the Hispanics had a 16% death rate, lower poverty, and have a higher population.
Maybe for arguments sake, I should start comparing one minority with another, instead of against the majority. That way you can’t skew anything by claiming percentages.
@ Michishige Shou,
@ Michishige Shou, man you really don't understand proportions, you have to use them no matter what lol. Okay let's say your a business owner with two factories, A and B. You want to find out which one is more productive so you compare them. Factory A makes 100 products by the end of the day with 50 workers and Factory B make 150 by the end of the day with 150 workers. Which is better?
Also I'm still waiting on your call dude...
@ Michishige Shou, the website you linked literally states, "While the poverty rate for the population as a whole is 11.8% the rate varies greatly by race. Blacks have the highest poverty rate at 20.8% and Non-Hispanic whites the lowest at 8.1%. "
@jabopples, if you don't mind me asking, are you a teacher? Because this conversation read like a conversation between myself and one of my 8th grade math students who is struggling to understand nested proportions (or percentages of percentages for those who have never heard it called nested proportions). I considered replying to try and help explain, but was worried that michishige shou would have been upset with a middle school math teacher trying to help clarify a common misconception about statistics.
@cperkins46, I'm so happy to hear you say that. I am actually an 8th grade science teacher, but I spend a lot of time tutoring math and took a lot of statistics in college 😅. It seems to be a difficult concept to teach, I commend you for it. Yeah he seems frustrated and I understand your reservation, but hey we gotta do our best to promote growth mindset and being okay with learning everyday. To be honest I heard the notification and got a bit tense, but this was a welcome relief. Thanks for commenting.
"We're pissed at the police! Let's burn this Domino's!"
The protesters don't want rioting. There are just criminals taking advantage of the situation separate from the protesters.
So when police do something brutal it's not all cops. But when riots and looting break out it's all you can focus on? What about the millions of people protesting peacefully? What about the people actively standing in the way of the destruction? What about the video evidence of vandalism being started by a group of white people while actual protesters call them out and try to stop them? What about the protests like flint Michigan where the cops walked WITH people instead of stopping them and there were NO reports of violence? If you honestly think that the protestors are in the wrong here you better try again because there's a mountain of evidence that says otherwise. Everyone keeps saying they despise tyranny and yet don't bat an eye at police geared up like military shooting at and arresting reporters... ffs
@Commander Peanuts, no one that I've seen or talked to think the protests are wrong. Noone thinks that what happened to Mr. Floyd was right. But everyone i know think the rioters are being led by an organized group out to cause more chaos and divisiveness. Looters should be shot. Protesters should be respected and protected. Hope everyone stays safe until cooler heads prevail.
@mycatsanahole, I don't want to get too conspiratorial, but it certainly would be an easy way to take credibility away from the peaceful protests to start this destruction and watch as people assume it's the same people.
They have insurance, who cares. The lives of black people are irreplaceable and this has been happening for years, let it burn!
As a resident of the Twin Cities, can confirm
You want to talk about property damage? Instead lets talk about making sure that we love all races and cultures :) and that we make sure our children do as well
Was not expecting such good resolution