That's not the same thing, people can't use abortions to kill a bunch of innocent... um, wait.
Nope, not touching this abortions bollocks.
@Steve the cat, I love abortions... 350° for 25 minutes in a tomato paste.
@Barry Dylan, that's appalling. I love it.
@Steve the cat, You're not killing anything, you're performing an abortion
@Barry Dylan, that seems like a modest proposal
@Barry Dylan, No, you're thinking of aubergines. Abortions are the native people of Australia.
@Jdrawer, No you’re thinking of aborigines. Abortion is when you obtain something, especially money, by force or threat
@Truthcat, killing the life form. I'm not against it, but call it what it is.
@Pandaren Brewmaster, no that's extortion. Abortion is the action or an act of abolishing a system, practice, or institution.
@Scottles, fair enough, I've never understood why it's considered life, but I've given up arguing.
@Truthcat, even single cell organisms are considered life forms, the argument that "it's just cells" does not hold up imo.
@Scottles, A life form isn't a life, in the sense that the law or good conscience mandates its protection. A single celled organism can be a life form but killing it isn't murder.
Our notion of killing isn't that it's bad because we're causing cessation of metabolic processes, or washing your hands would be wrong. So would pulling the plug on a brain dead patient. There has to be something more, and fetuses don't have it.
@Truthcat, washing your hands kills germs lol. Just because its lesser doesn't mean it isn't alive. As I said, I have no problem with abortion personally, but to say you aren't killing something is inaccurate.
@Truthcat, I think it's the extinguished potential people are concerned with. Killing germs or bugs generally prevents contamination, where killing a human fetus kills [insert beloved historic figure here]. My opinion is a little different, as I believe our bodies are vessels for our spirits. I think the process of possessing a body is difficult, to say the least, and that we don't fully possess our bodies. I believe our spirit controls certain parts of our brain. I have no idea at what point we begin our possession of our respective body, but I am quite certain it is non-competitive.
I think of it a little like learning to drive, but much more complicated. Honestly, I could go on, but I'm sure there are enough questions about what I've said already so I'll wait to determine level of interest.
@Empshok, I understand that, but they're really talking about the potential for potential. You have potential based on your experiences, relationships, and memories, but a fetus only has the potential to be born. I personally view a life, in the sense of a sentient being, as a collection of memories and hopes, and that's what you take away in a murder. Abortion, if it's wrong, is a wrong done to the mother alone and if she doesn't feel wronged then no wrong is done.
Once a fetus is viable the situation may be different because it has the direct potential to be something more, but before that it's something that exists at the pleasure and discretion of its host.
I see potential as something that has to be fairly direct, not contingent on various things. I don't have the potential to be an astronaut, unless a lot of hurdles are overcome. I may have the potential to overcome them, but I'm old and lazy.
@Empshok, Btw, thanks to you and others in this thread for the civil discussion. Nice to see for a change.
@Truthcat, well, I want to show that not all who believe in the unseen are triggered nutjobs. I believe in spirits, but as I can't really prove their existence, it would be delusional to get mad at you for not believing the same. I can share my perspective and leave it to you to consider, but without irrefutable evidence that you not only know but accept what I believe, I have no justifiable reason to judge you negatively in any way.
@Truthcat, ummm... No.... The fetuses are usually alive... By scientific standards, not religious ones...
@RogueKnight, In scientific terms, a fetus is described as "viable", not "alive".
The whole discussion was about the distinction between being alive, and being a life. Thanks for paying attention.
@Truthcat, I was making a single point. Nothing more than that.
A simple difference for me is this:
It becomes a life at the point of contraception. When the sperm penetrates the egg and begins mitosis.
It is alive when it has a heartbeat, brainwaves, etc.
Those are my beliefs and not scientific, obviously.
@Empshok, its spelled appealing
Interesting hypothesis but let me hit you with this question:
Has the demand for guns been artificially increased due to their politicization from large lobbies that have a vested financial interest in selling weapons? would the demand for firearms be unaffected if special interest groups stopped spending millions to influence politics and create marketing campaigns?
Likewise, does abortion have any demand inflating factors? Do abortion companies market as aggressively?Have you ever seen an advertisement for an abortion show/fair/tv show? What about abortion collectors?
Are abortions even comparable to guns at all: in that abortions are a one-time single-pay service usually carried out by a non-profit organization or medical provider, rather than a manufactured product designed to be sold to people for a profit, often with repeat customers as a target market and multiple reselling/up-selling opportunities (bullets, attachments, scopes, paint and personalizations, more guns, etc)?
@liberachi , I am annoyed at the down vote because these are valid concerns and questions.
I am certain degrees of gun control and gun freedom. However am prolife for the following reasons:
The choice should have been made before consummation. If anything we need better education on safety and consequences, however I also absolutely agree this won't solve the problem completely with rape and misbehavior. But as long as the number of pregnancies decrease, the next step will work:
I looked into abortion numbers and the finances of birth control for abortions, pills, etc. Given the teachings have worked, we can redirect funds from abortions and other methods of birth control to instead welfare specific to unintended pregnancies. If this happened, there is a ratio of ~10000-20,000 dollars per abortion. If we cut the number of abortions in half, the ratio doubles.
That's a whole year of median salary, which is enough to help a mother get on her feet for that year.
@liberachi , massive abortion lobbyists planned parent funds politics favoring abortion (which they also get money from the government, tidy cycle going on there). The demand for guns would not change if both the people lobbying for and against it stopped, plus abortions have killed more children since it was legalized than any accumulation of school shootings times ten.
@Dephenistrator, I enjoy how you clearly read all my points and yet your rebuttle boiled down to “nuh uh!, you!”
1. Notably, the lobbying for abortion targets politicians waaay more than private markets, this is again because abortion clinics are usually non-profit or run by medical service providers. Gun lobbies take special care to target private markets to create grassroots support for their ideas, note how I pointed out gun buying shows, gun tv programs, and television advertisements. All of those would have no purpose if gun lobbies didn’t make money off of them while simultaneously drumming up support for their own beliefs around guns.
2. Not once did I mention the morality of guns v the morality or abortion. If you have to resort to that tired, rediculous anecdote about “killing babies” perhaps you should re-evaluate what you believe and why because it seriously makes you sound stupid to resond to a genuine economic, free-market analysis question with fear mongering.
@liberachi , you're forgetting that an abortion can only save me from a mugger/home invader/gay rapist if I also have a time machine to go back and convince their mother to get one. Since guns are extant and time machines are (to the general public not), the latter serves me no purpose. So regardless of any lobbying or marketing in favor of guns (of which I personally have seen nothing but the opposite, but anecdotes aside) I still would buy and own a gun, and defend the right of all Americans to do the same, because I believe everyone deserves self-preservation, even you.
@liberachi , the thing that makes them comparable is the fact that it's a given right to have either.
@Captain Swordsman, first of all the fact that you took time to add “gay” to the rapist part leads me to believe your a troll or an idiot or both so I’m pulling the emergency eject lever on this conversation.
As an aside though gay men are doubly as likely to be the victims of sexual assault but not the perpetrators, don’t know how or why considering it would make sense for a gay man to be raped BY another gay man, but thems the facts so I guess do your own research.
A: your first instinct was to try to weaponize an abortion. Stop it. Get some help.
B: I’m not going to touch the fact that you tried to disprove the very true statement that gun lobbists also target private markets by using an a textbook anecdote then calling my theory an anecdote.
C: I’m also going to assume you are a man because you’re on the Internet, and point out that you would literally never use or need an abortion.
D: wowie, thanks for protecting me captain swordsman. You must be a big strong man.
@liberachi , I added the "gay" because I'm a man and it wouldn't make sense for a straight man to rape me. It has nothing to do with "trolling", you retard.
A. I'm not trying to "weaponize and abortion", ypu retard.
B. I didn't try to disprove your argument with my anecdote, nor did I call your argument an anecdote, you retard. I was calling my own story an anecdote and included it for context, you retard.
C. Regardless of wether I would need an abortion, doesn't change the usefulness of it to the general population, you retard.
D. I didn't say I was going to protect you, I said you deserve the ability to do so yourself, you retard.
E. My entire point was about how this alleged lobbying has no bearing on my decision to own a gun or my support of gun rights, you retard.
F. If you "pulled the emergency eject lever" at the beginning, where did the rest of your comment come from, you retard?
@liberachi , As usual, you misinterpreted every single thing I said in the most asinine way. I'm beginning to think that you're doing it on purpose. And you call me the troll.
@liberachi , planned parent runs alot of money through it, and lobbys alot. That puts it on the same level, even if the label isn't private sector. And they use public funds to from taxes to lobby bias heated issues which is disgusting. Everything your saying can so easily be flipped right back at planned parenthood that you have to be turning a pretty blind eye to see things that as that unbalanced. Abd the horrors of abortion are only a tired phrase to it's advocates, abortions opponents don't care if your tired of hearing how horrified we are that people commit this heinous and disturbing act of violence.
@liberachi , From what I've seen Dephenistrator has been making pretty terrible pro life arguements across the board here that pretty much always boil down to " b-but dead babies!@!!!$! " against everything. Take a look at Don Quixote Corazons comment replies for a good example of that. You might be wasting your time if you argue with this one.
@Dephenistrator, on a whole are they more or less horrified by school shootings than abortions?
We’re ok putting restrictions on one constitutionally protected right but not the other? The hypocrisy of this argument is amazing...
@liberachi , it’s not the same thing but I appreciate the arguments on both sides of both issues.
Guns are weapons. Period. The excuse of it being protection against a tyrannical government is nonsense, but the claim of it being a tool for defence of self and property isn’t, especially for people who live in rural areas.
Abortion however, isn’t as simple as whether or not a fetus is a human, legally speaking. It clearly is, otherwise punching a pregnant woman and causing a miscarriage wouldn’t be legally classified as murder, which it is. It’s more of a situation of legal life ending, such as euthanasia, which I am in support of.
These are both grey area issues. In my eyes, a good middle ground would be the banning of semi automatic handguns but the legalization of open carry bolt action rifles and revolvers. It’s significantly harder to murder spree with those, while the adage of “if you can’t solve a problem with six bullets, you can’t solve it at all” comes to mind for the others
@Dephenistrator, I take that as concession of the point. Maybe next time...
@A Blunt Object, maybe next time you won't say something stupid
@Captain Swordsman, prolly shouldn't call people "retard"
@Vaultboy777, I normally don't, but when someone (purposefully or otherwise) acts sp stupid as to the only explanation being an IQ of 45 or less (as liberachi did in misinterpreting and twisting everything I said to such a degree) it tends to get a rise out of me
@Dephenistrator, I won’t say anything if you make a salient argument, but that would be a first...
@Dephenistrator, abortions should be illegal, except in cases of rape or incest, and even in those cases it should be HEAVILY discouraged. However, in today's climate, women are ENCOURAGED to kill their unborn children because of "muh feminism". fvcking left wing nutjobs, sjw commie pinko fvcks
@XxDEMONBANExX, they should make. It illegal, it's one of the most heinous things you can do and the reasons for it are shít.
@Dephenistrator, of course liberachi downvotes me, wouldn't expect anything less from a degenerate marxist.
@XxDEMONBANExX, a downvote from someone you usually agree with is a small shame, a downvote from someone you never agree with means your doing something right.
@XxDEMONBANExX, and btw, i can't stand communist/socialist. They need to learn both math and history. And they need to look around at how good we have it. You have to be psychotic to think America is a hell hole then turn around and say illegals are just trying to find a better life here.
Unpopular opinion: Gun rights should be changed to gun privilege. Just like driving, if you break the law/abuse your car, your privilege to drive will be taken away.
If you're responsible, passed mandatory introductory classes teaching how to maintain/clean/store/use a gun, bringing your guns for yearly check-ups to keep records of what condition the guns are in, don't have mental disorders, and no criminal history, you are more than welcome to have a gun.
You can ban services much more easily than you can ban items. No gays were married in the US before it was made legal, but imports of cocktail shakers skyrocketed during prohibition.
I think weather or not abortion is ok depends on the situation, rape victims yes let them get an abortion, married couple that just don’t feel like having a baby right now maybe not so much
@benderama, exactly, the only times it's okay is rape or life threatening medical situations. Otherwise it's just a gross way to clean up recklessness
What schools should teach: Safe gun handling, how to avoided getting pregnant and why.
What schools teach: Guns are bad. Abortions are good because people should have a choice over their life vs their offspring.
@Tentastic, Abortions are good. If it's not developed enough to survive outside the female body yet it's not really offspring. Schools don't teach that. They try to teach safe sex but it's not very well. Most health classes spend more time teaching the kids that running will cure their depression because they are taught by underqualified PE teachers.
@ThatPigeonChick, define survive though, an infant isn’t exactly going to survive if not taken care of.
@TheLastRustler, fair point I dont expect them to be feeding themselves and the such straight out of the womb lol. I meant that most babies born before about six months ( the abortion cutoff is five I think) have a very low chance of surviving their first year due to complications. Meaning most abortions are done way before the fetus could be taken out and be a living breathing human being. The ones done within a potentially developed enough time frame have a very slim chance of survival and that's a very late stage abortion.
@ThatPigeonChick, I guess my main issue is that at what point does the “clump of cells” as some people refer to them become a human. Because as of right now I think it’s down to whether or not it’s wanted has a large baring on that. It’s down to perception. Which is absurd, it has its own unique dna does it not? Logically it would be it’s own person, a human maybe?
@TheLastRustler, it becomes human once it could survive on it's own out of the womb in my opinion. Until then its rights shouldn't come before the womans/ couples because it's not able to be it's own entity. It needs to be where it is to grow in to a human being. If the parent/parents do not want to create life then they dont need to continue letting life be created in their body. Most abortions happen LONG before anything would be developed enough to survive on it's own outside the womb. The woman should not be obliged to continue to create life in her body if she doesnt want. It's not even a being at that point. It hasn't formed life yet. Just because it could later on down the road doesnt really mean its life at that moment. We eat eggs. Eggs could potentially have life to them ( people have taken eggs out of fresh markets and incubated them in to birds ) but they dont at the point in which we consume them. Also we literally raise and murder animals which ARE living beings.
@TheLastRustler, I dont know why we place undeveloped human life so far above that just because it could potentially be a human further down the line. I eat and enjoy meat so this isnt a game of " found the vegan" lol just thought it was a good point to make. Edit: but if you're vegan then I would probably respect your opinion a lot more because it would make my point quite invalid.
@ThatPigeonChick, I don’t equate animal life to human life. I’d have 100 cows die over one human. Eggs have the potential, sperm has potential. But the combination is inevitability, unless interrupted.
@ThatPigeonChick, what would you define the interruption of life to be?
@TheLastRustler, Yes, it can be interrupted if found nessicary thus making it no longer life and inevitable. It never was life at the point in which its cut off. I find your opinion a little stupid. /potential / life is worth so much to you that you'll argue for it but not living breathing life just because its animal and it defeats your point on the moral aspect? Not entirely sure I feel like arguing this with you anymore. Just seems like you're one of those people who is blindly pro life.
@ThatPigeonChick, You literally just claimed it was in a superimposed state of it being both living and not living at the same time based on whether it’s wanted, quite frankly I find that idea stupid. I’m not arguing it’s “potential life” I’m arguing it IS life already. But I can understand the dehumanization angle, it worked pretty well for other causes throughout history.
Nobody storms a high school and performs 30 forced abortions
@Truthcat, no, if they want to kill kids they just get in line at planned parenthood and kill more than every shool shooting in history combined.
@Truthcat, nobody storms a high school and performs 30 forced gun handouts.
“You get a gun! You get a gun! Everybody (up to the first 30) gets a gun!”
@Canis Arktos, but that's literally the Republican game plan. Give everyone guns. what's your point.
@Canis Arktos, No, I'm more concerned about the forced bullet handouts
@Truthcat, more abortions are performed than people killed in active shooter incidents...
@RogueKnight, so what? More appendectomies are performed than school shootings. The difference is that school shootings are homicides and abortions aren't.
@Truthcat, maybe not legally at this point, but it still is a homicide to many. It is the killing of a human life, even if not fully developed, where that life had no say in the matter.
@Truthcat, a fair point. My comment was intended to bring a bit of levity to the app known as funny pics. That’s all.
the difference is, guns actually kill people
btw: if you think" thats not true, guns don't kill people, people kill people" yes you are right. people kill people.... with guns
@Don Quixote Corazon, Guns do kill people. A lot of things can kill people. I support gun control to an extent. But I don't believe we can generalize "Guns are bad" simply because "They kill people".
The question really is whether access to guns encourages a person to kill someone.
The thing is, almost all recent shootings have been caused by guns that have been obtained *illegally*.
Banning guns only encourages the growth of the black market in firearms which makes guns more easily available to people who intended on obtaining guns illegally.
This means less guns on the market for law abiding citizens, more for criminals.
Don't believe me? Consider the drug market. Hospital meds insanely expensive and not avaliable to everyone. But easier to get on the black market if you have connections, which mainly criminals do.
I believe unconvicted citizens should have the opportunity to obtain any firearm if they should so desire, but as with vehicles, you should need certain licenses.
@Don Quixote Corazon, hammers kill people, abortion kills (if it's not alive then why do you have to end kill it?), knifes, rocks, strangling (shoot we ban hands?)
abortion is not killing, its not like you are pulling an fully evolved embryo out of the women and throw it away...
@Don Quixote Corazon, yes it is exactly the same
no! WTF NO!
This "thing" that is aborted does not have a nervous system, no extremities it does not have a consciousness. It is not a human being.
You are not taking a live, you are preventing that a life emerges.
Its the same as using a condom.
@Don Quixote Corazon, it's murdering a child
You are speaking like criminals or peope how intend to do bad things with guns magically cant buy them legally, i life 10 000 miles from america away and even i know it doesnt work like this.
You are are just emotional, could you reasonably explain why its murder?
@Don Quixote Corazon, you have to kill it
@Don Quixote Corazon, I get what you’re saying but I think you’ve completely missed what the other side is saying.
They believe fetuses to be people.
I want to stress that again because a lot of pro choice people argue their views ... I don’t know how else to say it... incorrectly. Pro choice indicates that it is important to consider the well being and free will of the mother. This is a good something to fight for. (Aside: as a guy I’m a little upset that the father doesn’t seem to have any legal rights in this decision but that’s another conversation to be held later).
The prolife people literally believe that abortion is killing a living human. The cells are human. It grows up to be a human. Abortion kills and destroys a human (by their argument). A gun CAN be used (and is far to frequently) to kill humans. Abortion (by the views of pro life people) IS ALWAYS killing someone every time.
I’m on the fence personally but I just want to see people making better arguments.
@Don Quixote Corazon, I'm actually not. Only some people who intend to do bad things can buy them legally, however many can't. But if we took the ability of law abiding citizens to carry guns, then the only people who would carry guns are criminals and cops (who won't be there immediatelly for shootings)
@Dephenistrator, did I murder my tumor when I had it removed?
@Don Quixote Corazon, you haven’t seen a late term abortion have you. You are completely wrong in literally everything you say.
Btw I’m pro choice. Only in first trimester though. After that it is viable and it is a life.
@hollow114, are you stupid? Single cell life exists but you consider a complex human life to a tumor? You made the shallowest arguement here of them all
@Dephenistrator, a fetus isn't alive. Science says so. The Bible says so. Also IDGAF if single cell life does either.
@hollow114, that's debatable, that's wrong, and that's pathetic. In that order.
@Dephenistrator, no it isn't. No. It isn't. And I don't care.
@Dephenistrator, not to oversimplify. You can't just make whatever you want debatable. The Bible explicitly states that a fetus is property not life. And even condones abortion in cases of adultery. And states life begins at first breath. But I've read the book. Whereas you pretend.
@hollow114, no, i haven't read it as I'm not apart of a religion. But all of the religious people I know would vehemently disagree with abortion and call it life so even if it's in a bible it doesn't change anything important
@Dephenistrator, because they haven't read it either. Not only is abortion condoned. But without it we would be grossly overpopulated. And inner cities would be in turmoil. American quality of life has drastically increased since Roe v Wade. And shockingly the most liberal states have the least abortions. Because we fund PP.
@hollow114, that's a dumpster fire of trash info. And just another good reason to stop funding the child murder and teach idiots to use condoms like a civilized human being
@Dephenistrator, no not really. Us here in 2018 are trying to improve life. While you guys in 1818 are making it legal for rapists to stop their victims from aborting.
@hollow114, that's a failed strawman argument. I don't know who you think "you guys" entails, but I'm not a Republican just because I really hate liberal ideas. Abortion for rape is a grey area I think that should be left up to the survivor and medical emergencies should also be left up to the mother if they are life or health threatening. The vast majority of abortions are a disgusting way to "clean up" reckless behavior. That, I will fight to no end.
@Don Quixote Corazon, my guns have never killed anybody... I must have raised em right.
That's like saying the scalpel killed the patient on the operating table and not the doctor who screwed up.
@Dephenistrator, oh so you're just a weirdo. Okay. Duly noted. Thankfully it seems unlikely you'll procreate.
@hollow114, lol, I have a son. But keep being nasty and proving to me what kind of people I'm dealing with here
@Dephenistrator, ohhhh so you're just old. Makes sense. You got your science learning from a book in the 1950s. Kinda hard to pin you down not Republican, agnostic, vehement opposer of women's rights.
@hollow114, lol, you don't know how to guess age. I was born in the eighties, and you are totally a nasty person. the baby is not always a female so it's not just women's rights.
@Dephenistrator, well you're weird so it is. Anyway. Not a baby. A collection of cells. Doesn't even look like a baby. Literally just cells. If that's a baby. Jacking off is murder.
@hollow114, "well your weird", in other words I thinknfor myself and that made your straw man collapse. It is baby, your also a collection of cells. Jacking off obviously isn't murder, what the hell dude....
Yikes, that strawman (or woman lol). Even got the feminazi hair color
They’ve banned girls in the UK and Australia. Rarely do you have shootings there
How about this? We get all the bad people and move them to an island continent thing. And call it NewAustralia.
@crazysheep, I want space. Same idea, replace “island continent thing” with “mars”.
@Dephenistrator but its not conscious, its just a bunch if living cells. Just like yogurt.
@Don Quixote Corazon, first, that is a really .... this is not the right word but it’s the best I can find... neat metaphor. Seriously. Super neat.
Could I counter because I’m on the fence and really hoping discourse might offer a perspective or piece of information I could use.
When does it become life?
Do we need three neurons? 12? 5,000? I’m with you that yogurt is cool to eat/ kill. Probably don’t eat human yogurt. That sounds gross. Still. It’s a hell of a continuum. And it’s crucial to this conversation to determine where that line is. We’re getting better and better and keeping premature babies alive so I don’t think we can even use the “if it could survive on it’s own out of the womb” as a viable line anymore. Where is the line. I’m on board if the mother’s life is at risk. Tough decision with no right answer. I leave it to the family. Abortions make a certain amount of sense to defend the psychological, and even financial well being of someone not prepared to be a parent
@Canis Arktos, but we can’t go killing this 12 year old because momma wants to change careers and this brat is getting in the way. Not saying you’re saying that, it’s just a for instance of what not to do. We can work are way back from agreed upon territory toward where our opinions may differ.
So the line.... thoughts? That’s really where this whole argument lives or dies. Whether there is a line and whether we can find it.
@Canis Arktos, I think in order to have a productive argument about this you first need to eliminate the outliers from the discussion. Abortions due to rape/health risks for the mother are the vast minority. I think the real discussion should be is, in a moral sense, is abortion as a form of birth control (the overwhelmingly prevalent use) an acceptable practice? In order to determine this it all comes down to when does a human become a human.
@Don Quixote Corazon, if you compare a child in the womb to yogurt, then your broken. Yogurt is not a human being, a child in the womb is a human being. The only thing stopping it is you killing it
@TheLastRustler, exactly, i am deeply against abortion for convenience. But for rape and health complications i think it has a place or at least a grey area. I feel most of the abortion dialogue is broken because as far as not wanting a kid, you can use protection or not have sex if you can't do that. I feel making and ending the life because you were irresponsible is the most disgusting way to out the problem. It's like solving liver damage from alcoholism by taking someone else's liver. It doesn't stop it from happening again and only costs another life dearly for your recklessness
@Dephenistrator, I agree on the rape/health side, but what if you use protection and still end up pregnant? It wouldn't be having an abortion because you're irresponsible, but differentiating the two is basically impossible. And as for the liver example, I imagine it would be far more likely for the transplant to come from an already dead donor, which makes it more akin to the "fetus is not alive" argument
@NarwhalAssassin, poorly translated examples aside, that risk always comes with sex, a very very minuscule risk if your using protection like you should. I was taught it in school. It's what sex is for. It's still grossly irresponsible to slaughter the child instead. The feeling i get is that the kids life isn't worth the inconvenience after being reckless. That's how this is to me.
@Dephenistrator, My opinion is that you should be allowed to get an abortion, but you have to be fully informed beforehand. Keep it as fair and unbiased as possible, but tell them exactly what they're getting into beforehand. It wont stop everyone, but it will let people make more rational decisions, and prevent some from doing something they regret. In the end though, theres never going to be one answer. People are always going to disagree and the best we can do is compromise so that most people accept it
@TheLastRustler, I’m going to be real honest here and admit where I’m ignorant. I am hesitant to accept those as ‘outliers’ not because I don’t believe YOU, but because I don’t know the numbers and people frequently speak in generalities.
That said, for me THE most important part is whether we can find a line between “this is a life” and “this is roughly analogous to the pile of bacteria found in my colon”.
That question would decide a lot for me. We are willing to do chemo or chop off a limb if it is infected. I had a bone spur on my knee removed. These are all fine because those cells were not sentient. They were not a human life.
Your birth control argument is a fine one but for me, this question is more foundational. If it’s a person from the start, then the argument suddenly got a lot less murky. If we can someday say that this is a person and that is just a big toe in your belly, that would similarly clarify the subject. I respect the search for a moral truth on this issue
@TheLastRustler, but I think that we are lacking the scientific understanding to really answer that question. Till then, the best any of us can do is simply try to be compassionate to one another and the things that EVERYONE is going through.
(Aside: in general, yes. I agree that abortion is shiit as a form of birth control. Still, I could be swayed on even that if my earlier question received a real and verifiable answer.)
That's a result but not the reason. The reason is because it's a fetus. And not a life, banning it would reduce the # but still have that result. Meanwhile guns that is the reason, therefore. Less is still a preferable alternative to many.
This is a stupid comparison