Hey remember that time the entire world freaked out over an illness with a miniscule death rate for anyone remotely healthy to save some 90yo while brutally gang r@ping the economy and destroying the lower class all because some self righteous social justice warriors bought the hysteria and made things political?
@bobs and vegene, the worry isn’t about the overall death rate, but it’s the fact that it’s very contagious and is pretty deadly for the elderly and people with compromised immune systems. I personally know a handful of people who are at high risk, and they’re not even just old people. But regardless, old people are people too.
To say this is a political thing brought on by social justice warriors is extremely ignorant. You look at places like China and Italy we can see that this is nothing to mess with. It spreads so easily and while the death rate isn’t as high as initially thought, the spread rate will still inevitably cause a high number of deaths. We’re not dealing with just some seasonal flu. Even while we’re all social distancing, the number of cases is still exponentially growing, and the sheer number of effected people im sure is even higher than we know of because of the lack of testing, and the numbers lag even more because of how long results take to come in.
@K1l, if the overall death rate isn't the issue then why are we worrying so much about it? And yes old people are people too, but so are single mothers unable to feed children because they can't work because their jobs can't pay them because their jobs were shut down or because their 9yo child can't be left at home alone bc schools are closed. Sparing the old people already on death row at the expense of a much larger, healthy population doesn't seem worth it in the slightest to me. Especially since the functioning world would easily still function with this virus. Quarentine the old and release the rest of the world to continue life so we don't destroy our system for something that to me seems so stupid.
@bobs and vegene, I’m sorry sir but you are wrong. My mom is 60 and she could die from this because she has a compromised immune system. My dad is 72 and could die because of his age. I’m still in highschool and I don’t want to lose both of my parents. This is pretty serious. If it continues to spread at this rate up to a million people could die in the US. While it’s not likely, if we sit back and do nothing it will happen. 2-3% isn’t a minuscule death rate. And maybe if we didn’t give tax cuts to businesses and rich people a few years back we would be able to save the middle and lower class.
@shake n blake, guess which companies are paying their workers for not working right now: the large businesses (Apple is a great example), guess who can't pay their employees: small businesses. The answer isn't making this country socialist or communist. And if they believe themselves to be at risk then they should stay inside until this blows over.
@bobs and vegene, The death rate is the issue. It’s like you didn’t read what I said. The death rate may not be all that high for young and healthy individuals, it’s pretty high for older people and people with compromised immune systems.
Actually I just looked up the numbers and it looks like currently there have been about 800,000 cases and about 40,000 deaths. That’s a death rate of 5%, which is really high! That is however a bit misleading, because when taking untested/undetected cases into account, it’s closer to 2-3% (as stated by Dr. Fauci) which is still extremely high for a virus this contagious.
To put this into perspective, the seasonal flu has a death rate of ~0.1%. The coronavirus is way more deadly and spreads much easier. Plus we still don’t have a vaccine, which could take several months or even over a year to be created and distributed.
Just within the month of March the US went from having less than 100 cases to over 100,000.
@K1l, "the worry isn't about the overall death rate but that it's contagious and deadly for elderly and compromised people" - you
@bobs and vegene, Well I was wrong with my wordingand corrected that statement. I meant to specifically say the overall death rate for young healthy individuals isn’t that high.
@K1l, yes I get the flatten the curve ideal and that it'll save some people but the numbers are slightly skewed because Italians have the highest elderly population in the world - and maybe their healthcare workers suck because no other European nation is having issues anywhere near as bad as them? But I still think the damage this thing will do, regardless of these rediculous restrictions, over a year or however long it takes isn't worth decimating our economy and starving/breaking our lower class for (that is a far greater percentage of our population than just 1-2%).
@bobs and vegene, bro just stay home, watch stay home hub, and enjoy your free premium like the rest of us.
Also wash your hands.
@bobs and vegene, I really do hear you on your points. The percent of the world population that is at risk (did some reeaalllly dirty math based on %of world over 65y/o and % of US that is immune compromised, this number also pretty rough from a 2015 John’s Hopkins article) is a bit over 1%. Maybe 1.2%. Because the numbers are so disgustingly awful, I’ll throw errors of .5 on either side.
We are currently halting so much of, not just our economy, but the world’s economy (so take some heart in knowing that we’re not falling so far behind other countries, cause we’re all slowing) in order to protect 1% of the world’s population from this.
But wait, there’s more. Because there’s no vaccine we have to treat in hospitals the ~20% of COVID cases that are serious. This means that little kid with a broken arm, can’t get treatment as fast because these other folks aren’t breathing. And this other dude who smoked cigarets but doesn’t have COVID, he doesn’t get a ventilator and died.
@bobs and vegene, suddenly, the number is bigger than 1% of the worlds population. Also, sorry I didn’t notice you’d been hit with so many comments. I hadn’t read them so sorry if my super long comment covered the same ground and wasted your time. I really do hear what you’re saying about the employment issue. I know I’m advocating for quarantine from a salary job as a teacher. But I know a lot of my students live with their grandparents. I know that schools are easy vectors for disease. I know my kids will get hit real hard if their grandparents start dropping like flies. The economic effect on their families would be significant in that case too.
@Canis Arktos, fine, whatever. Save the part of the 1% of population. But know that the 20% of our population that's in the low class cannot go without pay for long and companies cannot maintain paying their employees without having any stream of revenue for long. The worse disease of money clotting will begin to hit the middle class. At some point 1% of the population does become an incredibly small number.
@bobs and vegene, another concern other than the pure mortality of the virus is overwhelming the healthcare system. Because it's so infective it spreads exponentially and cases can soon overwhelm an icu unit. So that they dont have enough beds or ventilators or staff to treat everybody so people who could be saved with treatment die, and additionally people with other conditions unrelated to the disease may die because they cant get the care they need due to an overwhelmed hospital
@K1l, while I fully agree with all of your points, and my comment is in no way meant to downplay them; the actual current death rate is based off of ‘closed’ cases. A ‘closed’ case is a case that had a ‘conclusion’ meaning either the virus passed and the person recovered, or they died. Out of the actual ‘closed’ cases, the actual death rate is 19% currently. 46,155 deaths out of 239,507 ‘closed’ cases.
@bobs and vegene, while i also agree with you to an extent about the numbers game. As the others have pointed out, the biggest risk is the overwhelmed healthcare system, lack of readily available healthcare supplies, and the massive infectivity rate. While the total number of ‘confirmed’ cases is a percent of a percent of the world population, the strain it puts on the global healthcare facilities is absurd. With the high infectivity, NOT forcing stay at home and social distancing guidelines makes the risk exponentially higher. The United States now leads the world in number of confirmed cases because it was not taken seriously and the virus was allowed to spread so far and wide before anyone in power wanted to act.
@bobs and vegene, had the anti-virus measures been implemented early on and as a precaution, the total time of economic shutdown would be substantially less than it will now need to be. It’s unfortunate and I am absolutely one of those people who cannot afford to be out of work. I’m personally hoping my landlord and I can work something out for the coming months. But even still, I understand how much worse this can get if we DON’T take it seriously.
@K1l, the death rate is much higher than you think. My wife is an ICU nurse and she has said that there are a lot of people dying in the ICU that aren’t even getting tested because you don’t bother testing corpses. But people are dying on vents of “unknown respiratory infections” but we all know its the virus. I guarantee you the number of deaths and infected is MUCH higher than the numbers suggest. For every person who is confirmed there are 2-3 unconfirmed, and the death toll is much higher as well. This isn’t a joke, people are dying at an alarming rate.
@bobs and vegene, even if you don’t give a flying fvck about athsmatics, people with cancer, people with autoimmune diseases, and people over 60, you should still be concerned about how this disease is affecting the healthcare system. If young, healthy, asymptomatic assholes go around spreading the disease to people who will get seriously ill, those people are going to use up a lot of the available resources at hospitals around the country. This means hospitals are less able to cope with other emergencies, like heart attacks, appendicitis, car crashes, aneurysms, etc: all things that can still happen to “low-risk” people during a pandemic. If you woke up tomorrow with a searing pain in your abdomen and a high fever, would you rather go to your local hospital and get treatment in minutes or wait for hours for a bed to open and a doctor to finish intubations?
@Niam Leeson, Im sure you’re right. Just for arguments sake I could only use confirmed numbers. I just read that it’s now the third highest cause of death in the US behind heart disease and cancer, it’s insane.
Also, your wife is a hero. I imagine that job is only 20x more stressful on top of what it normally is.
@bobs and vegene, this comment will not age well
@danied1, we'll see
@Niam Leeson, why wouldn't you test the dead? "Oh that guy? Yeah he just died." "Why?" "Oh, idk. But he's dead now so who cares?" I get maybe if it's because they don't have enough staff to take time to do it but I feel like that's absolutely something that should get done?
@bobs and vegene, I guess so, if it helps any I don't blame you for your interesting beliefs. Whoever made it so that you trust your own armchair economics over the principles researched and established with regards to potential pandemic consequences is probably to blame. You sound American given your viewpoint, so at the end of the day I really hope you and your loved ones are safe. No matter what your view point is within the next 2 weeks the US death tolls will exponentially rise from yesterday's 1000 per day. Just stay safe man.
@danied1, armchair economics? 6.6m people filed for unemployment last week and if more restrictions are put in place, that number will skyrocket. This is something to be concerned about. Big time. And the effect will last for a while afterward as well. If we maintain these restrictions for long then our lower class will get destroyed. I just hope this is worth it.
@bobs and vegene, yes that counts as armchair economics. In a global pandemic that would be the case for any country who didn't have the protective measures in place to weather it. The full economic weight comes to mind when you take into account the average age of these small business owners, the healthcare provided to them and those employed under them. Then you have to account for the healthcare workers and available resources to help the sick. Think about it like this. If a state has an influx of urgent care patients in a small span of time, it doesn't get rid of the other sick or injured, how do you help them now? Acquiring supplies doesn't happen overnight which leads to tragic deaths that could have been avoided. Now can you weigh the tangible detriment to the economy vs. The intangible detriment from X amount of families losing a primary provider? What about after the crisis? Can you guarantee insurance payouts and enough government relief to cover the larger mortality rate?
@danied1, yeah I get it, one life saved is better than no lives saved. But this the entire economy vs a decimal of a percent of the population. At some point this does become rediculous, and everyone gets to decide that. Those that are financially stable and can suffer a collapse and those that can't. Those that have weak immune systems and those that don't.
And tbh insurance isn't gonna cover a pandemic. Insurance is good for covering everything you don't need covered.
@bobs and vegene, This situation sucks for EVERYONE. But the true defining factor is that actions that may suck right now will actually save a nation in the long-term (ex: 5-10) while creating turmoil that is in most cases unavoidable in the short-term ( ex: 1-4 yrs). Whether you value small incremental injections that would diminish before leading to more economic upheaval or a sizable chunk of your workforce is up too you. Again, please stay safe out there! Differing opinions are a blessing to the shipwrecked so please just remember that In these times being able to vent in this community, is something to be cherished!
@danied1, again, genuinely I do hope you're right and this is worth it. But to me it seems like overkill.
@danied1, this situation genuinely doesn't suck for me and you. Idk your situation but I'm guessing it's living in a nice apartment with an ok work from home order from your job that's keeping you well employed - similar to mine. It's very easy to be like "oh yeah this is the right choice" from our stand point.
@bobs and vegene, Ideally, I'd much rather that you are right. Historically, the effects of being too cautious are a much easier to come back from then effects born from not being cautious enough. Im mostly hopeful that this pandemic or scare to some, opens to eyes to key cracks in every nations armour. There is no economy, or market, or prosperity without YOU and your society.
@danied1, yeah "a king without subjects is just a man", "a nation without people is just a word". But we're still talking about a very small amount of the population. I feel like we're done though. I've heard your points and hopefully you've heard mine.
@bobs and vegene, nope im a university student whose got lucky enough to work for Statistics Canada. I can telecommute. My major is international business which is why i have a decent understanding of world markets. Last year I was a construction worker in the summer and before that a pizza delivery driver. My best friends work roofing, landscaping, and engineering. The only principle that i can fall back on is that the faster we can weather the storm, the faster we can help pick up the pieces.
@bobs and vegene, you know how absolutely fvcking stupid you sound? It takes 3 days currently to test and there are only a handful of places that test. Not only that some results are taking WEEKS because they are so backed up. Do you waste time and resources on people who are already dead? They say they died of RESPIRATORY FAILURE or in some cases HEART FAILURE, or in a lot of cases the family takes them home because they know they are going to die. So no you don’t test them you dumba$$. You move on and try to save the people who are still breathing. The family has to request an autopsy to find cause of death. Most don’t really care that much it won’t bring them back.
@Niam Leeson, I still think it'd be smart to round up samples, etc.
@bobs and vegene, and who’s going to pay for that? Insurance won’t. Medicare sure as hell won’t. I work in the Lab, labs are stupid expensive. Want a CBC and BMP? $150. Check your lactic acid? $300. Nasal swab for flu/covid/whatever else? $200. Our lab is already cutting hours because 60% of our hospital is empty because they aren’t doing non-emergent surgeries. How well do you think testing 20-30 people without getting paid is going to work out for all of us just trying to keep our jobs? Im lucky I work for HCA, I heard a lot of places are having to let floor nurses go because there aren’t enough hours. Places that aren’t buckling under the pressure of too many patients ARE buckling under not having ENOUGH pts. And doing tests for free basically certainly won’t help matters.
@Niam Leeson, ah gotcha, I wasn't thinking of cost. What ur saying does go along with my whole economic thing tho
Corona ain’t going to stop them from partying