Comments
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@ThePandaPool , Old man Steve Rogers: no, I don’t think I will
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@Ray213, -_-
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@ThePandaPool , I'd love that so much
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2021: “Well, now it’s called the ‘M-she-U’ and everyone’s gender/race swapped, gay, traitors, or dead, but we’re still getting payed. High five!”
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@Cave Dweller, oi you can't say that you sexist/homophobic/whateverist!..... At least YOU cannot say that if you don't like it. When the writers, directors, studios, actors etc all say that's what they're doing though it's fine.
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@Cave Dweller, besides taskmaster, who is gender or race swapped lately? Also who is gay? Loki is hinted to be bi or whatever but that is pretty in line with him
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@Mantis Tobaggan, “taskmaster” was played by a man (Andy Lister) and was swapped in post. Charles Murphy was scrubbed. Edit: Loki is trash. Prediction fulfilled.
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@Cave Dweller, I didn't ask if it was trash, I asked who was swapped besides task master, or who is gay besides loki
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@Mantis Tobaggan, none fall outside the list anymore. None of the characters built over a decade have been spared. Don’t really blame you for not noticing. Fewer and fewer are tuning in anymore. For specifics, try some of the talented youtubers chronicling the issue.
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@Cave Dweller, the only ones I can think of are the madarin and the ancient one being white, when they should be Asian. Please, tell me who else. You don't have to go into detail but I'm not going to blindly search race swapping in the mcu
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@Mantis Tobaggan, None were spared. To know more, watch the films or read the articles, but don’t “blindly search.” That’s a waste of time. Use the search bar. They record your searches, but it’s worth the savings in time. Good luck.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, they got rid of Steve Roger's and replaced him with the Falcon as Captain America. Or as the kid said (in the show) the "Black Falcon". It's also following a similar trend of replacing traditional white male roles with "diverse" people and keeping the name. James Bond is supposed to be replaced by a black woman as 007 in the new movie. Female Ghostbusters. Indiana Jones is reportedly going to be replaced by a young female protege in Indy 5, killing off the og 3 in star wars for diverse new characters, etc. The problem isn't having new characters that are of differing ethnicities/genders. The problem is the trend of deliberately replacing the "evil white males" with those characters to pander to for identity politics. Because somebody will inevitably take this out of context (not necessarily you) ill state it again. NEW CHARACTERS ARE FINE. The problem is REPLACING existing, beloved characters just because they aren't "diverse" enough.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, Loki being Bi is in line with Norse mythology, if you think him being Bi is an issue, just wait until you find out he fúcked a horse...
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@spongeblade, falcon became captain America in the comics as well, so not a race swap issue. Steve Roger's was retired, not replaced. If Chris Evans wanted to keep going he most likely could have. More than one person has been Captain America, one of those was a black man, so not really an issue since he previously existed. As I said, the only race swapping jn mcu has been Asian to white as far as I can tell. James Bond was just rumors I thought? I hope it's false, making her a different agent would be fine. Indiana Jones is also a rumor I'm sure, as with bond we have to wait and see. Ghostbusters 2016 was super egregious. I agree. The movie suffered for it as well. I don't think Star wars was egregious about it personally. Killing off older characters to usher in the next generation wants the problem with how those movies were handled imo. They were all new characters, so no race swapped characters just like your Sam Wilson example.
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@Duranu, saying loki is bi is honestly toning it down. He turned into a female horse and got pregnant, and turned into a male snake and got a snake pregnant.
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@Cave Dweller, none were swapped except Asian characters to white people, unless you have another example. Sam Wilson was always black, and has been captain America in the comics years back. That isn't race swapping, it's a title being passed to a different character after another retired.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, exactly lol
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@Duranu, you flatter me love! Off topic I love your profile pic.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, thanks lol, I don't remember where I found it but it had to be 10 years ago at this point lol
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@Mantis Tobaggan, except it is still race swapping when they actively promote the fact that it's the "Black Falcon" becoming the new cap. The comics are written by the same company that's making the movies too so they just write what they want and then "it's true to the source". I get the whole passing the mantle argument. But the problem us that their deliberately passing it to a "diverse" person for the sake of diversity. I'd rather they put the time and effort into just building up Falcon as Falcon because he is a great character, but they're just making him Captain America because then they can have a "popular" title character that's diverse. And I think that's a fair assessment of their motives given the fact they actively promote the diversity component in interviews just as much, of not more than they promote what the new stuff is about. For 007 I'm pretty sure they showed the new lady in the trailers and said she's going to be the new 007 in interviews.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, I think there's also a difference between having full, new comic series that are stand alone cannon and changing the existing characters in the mcu that have very well established story arcs i.e. Steve Roger's as cap. I think there would be much less of an issue if they treated it as a different cannon. Kinda like Miles Morales for Spiderman. Indy 5 they also already hired the cast and there were some leaks of the plot. Those are unconfirmed but highly probable from what I've seen.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, btw for the Asian to white are you talking about the Mandarin?
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@spongeblade, the ancient one is doctor strange is who he is talking about an Asian male in comics switched to a white women for China.
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@spongeblade, his name isn't black falcon, they called that out. In the comics he was caps side kick for decades, him getting the mantle is the same as when Dick Grayson became batman. Bucky was cap for a while too, but since he's white that's OK? Wilson was a side kick since 1969, indont think him getting the mantle counts as race swapping, or an agenda, as you seem to be fine with white characters taking over. edit: Not trying to accuse you of racism or whatever, just how it's coming across to me right now. The mandarin, and also the ancient one in doctor strange. They may be "fixing" the mandarin issue now with Shang chi, but it still happened.
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@spongeblade, also, you said new characters are fine, but when they introduce new characters you still have a problem? Such as Star Wars, or possibly Indie 5? Please clarify but these seem very contradictory.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, you didn't take long to put words in my mouth. I never said anything about it being ok to replace with white characters. I dont like the mantle ideas in general. I explicitly said its wrong when THE WRITERS/COMPANY THEMSELVES PROMOTE THAT ITS BECAUSE OF DIVERSITY. The reason they have the "Black Falcon" bit in the show was explicitly because they know what they're doing is race swapping for identity politics. The Mandarin was stupid and if they race swapped the ancient one I think that's stupid too.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, for star wars the killed off the og characters to have new title characters that wee diverse. It's better than just having Luke Skywalker all of the sudden being a woman. But Disney explicitly made a point of having the new characters be "diverse". (Not diverse enough to keep Finn on the posters in China though). Ultimately the issue is less to do with the content on screen then it is the bs political agendas of people like Kathleen Kennedy. She has the whole "force is female" campaign and actively promotes having new waves of "diverse" female characters instead of the "sexist males". She's also running Indy 5 and has showed every sign of pushing the same political agendas.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, if the people making these movies didn't actively campaign off screen for identity politics and simply told the story and let it develop naturally I wouldnt have a problem with it. It's kinda hard to articulate on here. The problem isn't solely with what's on screen. The problem is primarily what the people behind the cameras are doing and them explicitly stating their motivations are for identity politics.
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@spongeblade, I put in an edit, you may not have seen it yet, I realized I sounded accusatory, I didn't mean to, I was simply trying to clarify and say what it sounded like to me. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth and I don't believe you to be racist or anything. I hate race swapping too I am just pointing out that none of this is race swapping, except the Asian to white examples. Sam Wilson was added in the 60s for the sake of diversity,I'm pretty sure, same with black panther. Stan Lee, in the case of black panther at least, thought marvel needed black heroes. Adding new characters for the sake of diversity isn't an issue at all, I don't see why anyone has an issue with that. Changing a characters ethnicity or whatever to fit some bs narrative is, but the only example of that you gave was lady Ghostbusters, the rest were OC's that were passed a mantle, or title, or whatever. That isn't race swapping since the characters race and all that didn't swap.
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@spongeblade, I get what you mean, but intentionally making a character black because you only have one or two major black guys (star wars, unless I'm missing someone) shouldn't be a problem Why would it be? Intentionally making new characters, which you said you were fine with, black, female, gay, or whatever is the opposite of the problem of race swapping, is it not?
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@Mantis Tobaggan, thank you for the clarification. I fully agree that new diverse characters are fine and a good thing. The issue for me specifically is with them doing these swaps for identity politics purposes. They don't always explicitly say "yeah we got rid of the white guy so we can have a black guy". But they promote every aspect of how great the diversity is and how horrible the racist past was. You also don't always get that part on screen because they try to hide it. But if you watch the behind the scenes interview often then it's quite obvious what their motivations are. For Black Widow Scar Jo said that her portrayal before was sexist and that it's "asinine to think otherwise" that the movie is promoting feminism.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, I think one other clarification I'd make is "swapping". I dont know the best way to articulate it, but you have franchises that span quite some time and then they just decide to get rid of the title characters and bringing in a new "diverse" replacement for the sake of diversity is what annoys me. I thought Finn actually did start as a great character. They kinda screwed his character up later though. If they simply had Finn and Rey and said nothing I probably wouldn't have an issue with it. But Disney (especially Kennedy) made it very explicit how much identity politics they were pushing and that's why I have an issue with it. Marvel isn't as bad because they're not quite as vocal about the politics behind it all, but its still there.
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@spongeblade, I agree that sometimes it can get pretty egregious, I just don't think most of the examples you gave are a part of that. The producers pushing their agenda is one thing, but they wouldn't be doing that of it was losing them money or anything, and as I said it was mostly characters that were always black, female, etc so I honestly don't see the problem there. Diversity in movies took a long ass time to occur naturally, can't really blame people for wanting it pushed along a bit faster imo. Context in text is difficult. I like proper debates like this one has mostly been, save a few misunderstandings. That is why I put in my edit. I didn't want to edit what I said, save for a few typos, but I did want to clarify.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, yeah. I appreciate the peaceful discussion. Comment sections like these are hard to have complex discussions in for sure. Like I said though, my biggest problems come from watching the producers and writers promote their bs identity politics and then that's exactly what you see on screen. Having a diverse cast is great. Making a diverse cast to meet a quota is where I find the issue. What makes this debate harder is they are aware of the backlash for their identity politics so they do their best to blend it into the movies. The more I watch all the back end interviews/discussions they do the more you can see the politics on screen and it just ruins the movies for me. If you take away the politics of it all then I think you'd also remove any issues people have.
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@spongeblade, DC is way more egregious about race swapping redheads for black leads. I don't care if they do it during a different universe side story, but leave canon characters race alone, new characters can be made and excepted, if they aren't that is okay, how many rejected characters do you think Stan Lee had to redo.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, This isn't meant as an attack. Just a quick clarification here, when you said "they wouldn't be doing that if it was losing them money, or anything", you mean to tell me that they haven't been losing money on a lot of these new "woke" movies? They have lost lots of money on woke movies, but they continue anyway. It's very clear they have more interest in pushing this diversity, than making money. Some of the bigger franchises make them money, or at least some of the content did. They have had a lot of flops over the last few years.
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@thatoneguymaybe, marvel movies have flopped? Which ones lol, they all seem to make a sh!t load.
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@Cave Dweller, I believe you meant M Xi U.
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@Mag3rPayne, haHA! Very nice! 💯
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@Mantis Tobaggan, haha, catching up on the comments above shows you are willfully ignorant at best. Either way a complete idiot. Check out the material for yourself. If you like it, consume it. As long as you remain pro USA, I’ll take your dumb takes with a grain of salt. Be well.
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@Cave Dweller, I'm factually correct though, about the mcu at least.
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@Cave Dweller, the only characters race swapped were from Asian to white, the mantle passing doesn't count as Sam Wilson has been black since his inception, it is fairly common for side kicks to take up the heroes mantle. How am I willfully ignorant when you have given me no evidence to consider? Telling someone to "look it up" doesn't count as evidence in the least.
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@Cave Dweller, ghost busters 2016=dumb gender swapping, and the movie failed accordingly. A 50+ year old black character completing an arc on film that he completed in the comics years ago isn't a race swap, but a mantle pass. What is ignorant about that? Name calling for no reason only serves makes you look foolish. Nothing that I said was ignorant or idiotic. Get out of that cave once in a while for some vitamin d from the sun, it can help with cognitive function.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, I didn't say Marvel Movies.
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@thatoneguymaybe, oh ok. That was the main topic. Some others brought up a few examples such as girl Ghostbusters. I was mostly talking about marvel
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@Mantis Tobaggan, Meandering, cherry picking, and reductio ad absurdum. Useless. Thomas Pain would call an attempt at discussion with you the ‘administration of medicine to the dead,’ but the truth is that it would at this point make the one attempting look worse than you. Others seem to be making the attempt and are learning the hard way. At least everyone else can see for themselves. Be well. Good luck to you.
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@Cave Dweller, that's weird way to say "I've got no evidence, but I'm too stubborn to provide any" Tell me how I cherry picked? Provide examples of anything you claim? No? You just, kind of, say stuff woth no real basis? Good deal. In no way can you provide no examples or evidence and claim that anyone else looks foolish.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, dont bother. Save Dweller does this sort of thing pretty often. I have never seen him explain a point. He is only capable of insulting and calling people stupid.
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@ThePandaPool , thank you for the warning. I've argued with him before, I knew what to expect but it's fun to watch him flail about sometimes to me. Him and coco had me pretty sure they were alts of the same guy for a while because of the stupidity, but I don't think so anymore.
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@Mantis Tobaggan, yea. Coco is an ok guy that sometimes has bad opinions. This guy is just a dick.
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@ThePandaPool , coco at least attempts to prove his point, just poorly, and it devolves into insults if you ask him for a source, or if you don't just buy what he says. ( in my experience) But coco can at least give examples, even if they are unrelated or cherry picked, unlike dweller.
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@ThePandaPool , lol
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@Mantis Tobaggan, lol
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They didn’t start out too strong, but they’ve progressively been getting better.
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@RMB, Wanda vision was a more in-depth look at an individual character, and sets her up for her next movie with Doctor strange. Falcon and winter soldier was just an extended movie, not much to see just some action and funny interactions between characters (and future character setups) and loki is the first one to have big canonical changes as it is going to open up the multiverse (as well as just having very enjoyable characters) and the last episode came out today so I can't wait to see that. Just a bit sad that these more important ones like loki isn't 10 or so episodes, a few more would have fleshed things out but too many would over do it and water it down alot. But I do think 6 episodes is a bit too short. Overall you are right, but the difference is loki is important with big implications where as falcon wasn't, and more of an extended action movie.
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@RMB, the first half of wandavision was my favorite. It was intense and I had absolutely no clue wtf was happening
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The Disney+ shows are top notch.
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Overall the shows have been ok imo. Loki had a really cool premise but didn't live up to it imo. I wanted a marvel version of quantum leap...oh well. Falcon and winter soldier was fine, I liked the two mains and overall story. Wandavision was super intense, mysterious, and captivating at first to me and quickly went generic marvel stuff at the end and had a wild cameo for no reason. They knew we would speculate the hell out of it why?!
Just have Old Man Steve Rogers lead the new avengers, an it'll all be ok.