I dont know what toxic masculinity is and at this point im too afraid to care
@TheBigJ, i dont know why everyone is offended these days and i dont care to ask
@TheBigJ, well don’t worry because it’s not a real thing
@TheBigJ, an example of toxic masculinity is like the stereotype of men having to be stoic and if you show emotion you aren’t a true man. Of course the problem with that stereotype is that it isn’t just men who reinforce it.
@TheBigJ, toxic masculinity has multiple definitions depending on who you ask. The primary one is a demonization of machismo, while another, similar definition is synonymous with extreme machismo.
However, intersectional feminism sees any form of masculinity whatsoever as being toxic, and that’s just pure bigotry.
@TheBigJ, Look up Bill Burr’s “what are you a f*g?” bit. About four minutes, fvckin hilarious, and sums it all up in a tolerable way.
@I Are Lebo, there are plenty of intersectional feminists who think there is non-toxic masculinity.
Also hi, good to see you're still around!
@Joseph V Stalin, thanks for the compliment, but I don’t see how one could be both intersectional feminist and not see masculinity as bad, considering the dogma of the Patriarchy and the level of influence over society Intersectionality puts on it.
Remember that we are talking about an ideology that presents the idea of ‘internalized misogyny’ being the reason why women don’t follow Intersectionality or do what feminists want.
@I Are Lebo, it's always refreshing to see a positive informative comment about something controversial, have a like!
@I Are Lebo, being a feminist means that you want equality in how men and women are treated. Toxic masculinity is when masculine traits are taken too far/enforced on men. Masculinity itself is great, and we couldn’t have equality without celebrating both masculinity and femininity
@InsaneWolf, do you honestly think that intersectional feminism is about equality?
@I Are Lebo, it is. There are just a lot of idiots who claim to be intersectional feminists. Honestly I think the whole idea needs some new branding
@InsaneWolf, you do not understand the philosophy behind Intersectionality and you do not know what you are talking about.
Feminism takes a stand against women’s issues while entirely ignoring men’s issues. That’s not the attitude of someone concerned with equality.
They fight over things that are not real, such as manspreading or the wage gap, while ignoring problems that are real, like institutional bias against men, men’s mental health issues, etc.
When you complain that not enough women are CEOs while ignoring the less paid fields that are almost exclusively men, you’re not interested in equality, you’re fighting for supremacy.
Feminism bemoans the fact that the top bracket of wage earners are men while ignoring that the bottom bracket is as well.
“Shut up, you’re a white man and you don’t deserve to be heard.” Do you know how common that is?
Give me one example of an intersectional feminist who isn’t bigoted towards their outgroups (whites, men, straight people). Just one.
@I Are Lebo, well, me. The point of intersectionality is that we look at how these issues affect everyone in different ways. If a feminist isn’t looking at how toxic masculinity is harmful to men, then they aren’t a real feminist. Everything you said feminists are fighting for is the worst of the group. Everyone deserves to be heard, white men shouldn’t be attacked, and intersectional feminism is about that (at least according to all the articles I had to read for a gender class)
@InsaneWolf, that’s a copout. Referencing yourself as an example assumes that your interpretation of Intersectionality is the correct one. Give me one example of a prominent person in culture or media who ascribes to the ideas of intersectional feminism who isn’t a bigot.
Everything I said feminists are fighting for are the majority of the group. They’re the visible part of the group actually taking actions.
Being supportive of men in your own mind helps nothing.
@I Are Lebo, Kate Harding, Nadine Naber, Roxanne Gay, Sharon Preves, Simone Davis, Michael Messner, and Susan Faludi. They’re all authors of studies or articles and focus on different things. I know that the loudest group is the worst, and it’s something a lot of people I know feel strongly about trying to fix. Hence my urge to rebrand “feminism” because it’s been given a bad name
@InsaneWolf, I’m going to go through the list one at a time.
Kate Harding is an author who published a book all about rape culture in which she parrots the nonsensical talking point about non reported rapes being statistically more prevalent than false rape claims. This is nonsense because both numbers are impossible to obtain. She also parrots the idiotic idea that sexual assaults will be solved not by teaching women to protect themselves but by teaching men to not rape. Men that rape don’t do it because they don’t know it’s wrong. They do it because they don’t care.
And this is an article written by Harding that conflates all men’s rights activists with the worst among them, which is massively hypocritical of a feminist to do so. She tells them “fück you” for trying to make things about them.
@InsaneWolf, Nadine Naber is an anti Semite that defends terrorism against Jews and against Israel.
@I Are Lebo, okay, so is your point that everyone is horrible and we shouldn’t even try?
@InsaneWolf, no. My point is that intersectional feminism puts forth a hierarchy of race and sex and bases its worldview on identity politics. The fundamentals of the ideology are based in hatred and bigotry, and the movement as a whole is NOT about equality.
The idea that the amount of consideration a person is due is contingent upon their race, their sex, their sexual preferences, their gender identity, or any other immutable characteristic is wholly immoral.
@I Are Lebo, it’s not supposed to be a hierarchy, it’s just supposed to be about understanding how it’s different for people of different backgrounds and identities. I think rather than writing off intersectional feminism, we could try to make it better. There are issues with every movement, but that doesn’t make it necessarily bad
@InsaneWolf, there’s no making it better. The blanket claim that how your life has been is ascertainable by your identity is prejudicial to an extreme. This is the ideology that posits that a straight, poor, white trash man in Kansas is more privileged than a gay, rich, black woman in Los Angeles.
Intersectional feminism is cancerous. Look at every single activist rally or protest and you will see that it is apparent.
@I Are Lebo, a straight poor white man is more privileged in SOME WAYS than a rich gay black woman, but in many ways she is more privileged. They’re positing that it’s more complicated than richpoor whiteblack, and that all the factors of identity work together and change how people in the world will treat you
@InsaneWolf, please enlighten me in what way he’s more privileged.
The entire concept of white privilege is racist. Most of what is attributed to white privilege is actually majority privilege. The way to prove this is to take the list of white privileges and go to a place that isn’t predominantly white, like the Middle East, or Japan, or Africa, and see which demographic gets those privileges.
@InsaneWolf, this is the best I could find for Roxanne Gay, in which she labels a feminist who questions the pay gap as a bigot, and argues that debate against the validity of any of feminisms points “shouldn’t be addressed”.
It’s not outright bigotry, to be fair. But it opens the way for other feminists to be bigots when she defends their vitriol.
@I Are Lebo, black people in america have to deal with countless things that white people generally don’t even notice/know about, including general fear/suspicion from white people. Any time someone treats them poorly, they have to think “was this about my race?” Because so often it is. Gays, blacks, and women are all more likely to get attacked/raped for who they are, or at least have been taught that they need to be afraid and ready for that much more than straights, whites, and men
@InsaneWolf, black people account for 14% of the population and 50% of the violent crime. Why don’t we address why so many people are nervous or afraid around black people instead of assuming it’s because they’re bigots? This is the same failure of logic that leads to so many feminists claiming women get paid less than men for the same job, which is factually untrue and already illegal to do so.
Also, the primary cause of black people getting murdered is other black people. So the idea that that’s on whites is ridiculous, as well as prejudicial.
@I Are Lebo, these issues are more complex than that. Statistics, while looking very official, don’t actually tell us much without more background info. That’s how they made up the wage gap, with out of context statistics
@InsaneWolf, indeed it is more complex. And using out of context statistics is dishonest and paints a false picture, which many if not all intersectional feminists do on a regular basis.
Simplifying the issue to ‘white people privileged, black people disadvantaged’ is prejudicial, presuppositional, and bigoted. It isn’t that simple.
@InsaneWolf, I can’t find any attitudes from Sharon Preves about anything but intersex, wherein she parrots the talking points regarding sex being assigned at birth (it’s not. It’s an observation of the baby, not the attitude of the doctor that goes into what sex is put down on the birth certificate), and she completely ignores the very real negative health ramifications that come from unaddressed sexual deformities.
@I Are Lebo, I would recommend checking out Susan Faludi’s “Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man” which obviously focuses on men, an area I feel is constantly overlooked in the hubbub of lgbtblacklivesmatter
@InsaneWolf, Simone Davis is a fictional character. Was that a misspelling?
@I Are Lebo, sorry, Simone Weil Davis. She’s got this book that talks about “gender fiction of the 20s” which is focused on gendered american consumerism, not directly related, sorry
@InsaneWolf, all good. I’ll double check. I’m not going through this list for ‘gotchas’, I would genuinely be pleased if I could find a public intersectional feminist who doesn’t harbour ideas that are demonstrably untrue, or even prejudicial. I would much prefer if feminism at large advocated for equality, I am in support of that.
I need to do more research on this, and preferably at a later date (considering I’ve been on the toilet since before our discussion began and my ass is literally numb now). For now, what I found about Michael Messner is just a guy complaining that women tend to do more housework than men and women’s sports is less popular than men’s sports. Nothing objectionable, but also nothing substantive.
i didnt see PewDiePie until now and its even more funny how he doesnt have legs
Gah, this is despicable. You don't need the apostrophe to indicate plural.
This comic makes me feel weird.
As a hetero male, I approve of this ship
That boy ain’t right
It’s funny because I see more toxic femininity than anything on social media and in person.
Are we just going to ignore the fact that Tony Stark and Thanos are at a BBQ with Hank Hill?
So many wasted apostrophes.
Papu Franku! Also pewdz doesn’t have legs hahaha
Watching two children make out is DEFINITELY toxic.
What point is this meme trying to make?
Boys will be boys