Imagine being a communist 🤡
@CMNDR BUbbles, I dont like to imagine being that retarded. Makes me depressed.
Me: "Oh boy! I like memes and having fun on an app I enjoy!"
Commies: "Here's a meme that's not funny but explains how capitalism/trickle-down economics/ (anything that has nothing to do with humor) doesn't work and if disagree you want poor people to die!!"
@ptitty1231, We get like 5 non-commie political memes per day calm down
@SimonPetrikov, doesn't change that they're annoying when they do show up
@ptitty1231, I'd be cool with the memes if the commies understood both economics and modern day equivalency.
For example depending on how the "next" administration handles our economy, we could see the government merging with corporations under biden. Amass "leveling" of the playing fields, making corporations be mega monopolies under harris.
Or we could open up and repair the harm that destroyed one of the best economies we've had as a nation under trump.
Most of the success of Trumps economy was just him making things fairer and not trying screw us over with bad deals like ttp, Pca, ind. Fixing our boarder problems. And finally incentivizing companys to stay here. His stimulus/tax cuts made the least impact in a vacuum, but it revivified our nation from life support. Only for the crazy commies bringing in the guy that's going to bring about literal fascism. All cause he's not orange.
@ptitty1231, dead poor people you say? You really do understand communism!
@SimonPetrikov, those are just as annoying
How revolutionary communists think things will work out.
How it actually does: TO THE GULAG
@owanobi, you don’t have to be a revolutionary communist to realize trickle down doesn’t work. 40 years since Reagan and wealth disparity has widened and the only change is that it has accelerated. Not condoning beating the rich to death though, just don’t let them hide billions from taxation, when they owe it to the country, not the tax haven where they park their yacht.
@Spetsnaz , *laughs in tax law*
@Spetsnaz , I never said that Trickle Down economics works, I was saying that revolutionary communists or socialists (take your pick) think you can just tax the rich or get rid of them entirely and expect everything to be hunky dorey. When in reality whether people want to believe it or not, these rich people like Bezos have created tens of thousands of jobs for the economy. Am I saying rich people are good people? fvck no, but claiming you want to help all people by getting rid of the rich shows how little these people know or care about economics.
Also communism/socialism doesn't work, just felt like adding that.
@Spetsnaz , 100% incorrect. You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.
We have the largest middle class, and smallest lower class than we’ve EVER HAD.
Math is hard, but this simple fact has proven that the economics have worked extraordinarily well.
Socialism is just being upset that others are more successful and feeling entitled to take their stuff, because you want it.
@big freedom, I am entitled to my own facts, as they’re the only ones that have actual research and peer reviewed studies backing them up, not just somebody’s feelings. Here’s three articles, one on the fact that the middle class has been shrinking since 1971, and that has been accelerated since 1990, lastly one that shows about the 50th study showing trickle down doesnt work. (https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/)
Wikipedia article on wealth inequality in the US (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States) within the field of economics these are known facts. Trickle down was a sham in 1980, lastly, comprehensive research on how trickle down is a scam (www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/23/tax-cuts-rich-trickle-down/%3foutputType=amp) also our middle class is smaller than it was in 1971, also you really have no idea what socialism is.
@owanobi, yeah im not really arguing with that, I was saying that the point of this cartoon is that trickle down doesn’t work, it concentrates wealth and inevitably leads to corruption, and eventually weakens the economy. (3 large recessions in 20 years) I don’t condone killing people for trying to amass wealth, but they (and their companies) need to be taxed progressively as we did in the 40s to the 70s, when America had a healthy and large middle class. That’s more socialism, that’s just regular market capitalism, but a lot of people that believe those relatively mainstream ideas would describe themselves as socialists, simply because in America people have very little understanding of what is and what isn’t socialism, or communism, even capitalism tbh. People here use words they don’t really understand because they are buzzwords that they either do or do not identify with.
@Spetsnaz , they don’t owe anybody anything. Especially since the top 10% pays 90% of the income tax
@CMNDR BUbbles, yeah that’s not at all the case. Panama papers are referenced in this comic for a reason. Also Amazon paid $0 in taxes last year. The rich can afford to buy politicians, get weak tax law written, hire accountants to use loopholes in the weak tax law, rinse and repeat.
@Spetsnaz , do you know why I wouldn't care if Amazon or any other company paid $0 in taxes? It's because you cannot tax a business. All the business will do is consider that part of the cost of doing business and increase prices to offset it. When a politician says a corporation isn't paying it's "fair share", what they're saying is "I want to increase your taxes in a way that you won't blame me."
@Azyoulikeit, I’m gonna be straight with you dude, that’s really not how a business works.
@Spetsnaz , I didn't go into detail on how a business works but go ahead and enlighten me.
@Spetsnaz , I think my biggest problem is that a lot of people are calling to overtax the rich and they forget that those huge companies can just move so not only does the US lose that tax income but possibly jobs as well.
I thought we were already doing at least some form of progressive taxes based on class? I'm obviously not an economist, so I am just going off of my own ideals on the subject. I will say that the more and more I hear about what Regan has done, the more and more I hate him.
@Spetsnaz , you must be a huge fan of Chinese slave labor. Sure, just increase taxes... the bright people that run these corporations and own politicians won’t find a way to make money, move their operations to China and still buy tax loopholes. 🤡
@Spetsnaz , here’s a great article, and I think you’ll find it to your liking.
Trickle down economics doesn’t exist. It’s used as a class warfare argument for the socialists to destroy and tear down society.
@Spetsnaz , Amazon paid no taxes due to programs that incentivised investing in research, their business, etc. The US had the highest corporate tax rate in the world by a long shot pre trump
@Spetsnaz , You kinda reminded me of this video.
Remember, Reagan had a degree in economics and sociology.
Now, telling me I don't know how business works would be news to the University that gave me my Bachelor's in Business Management.
But, since you failed to take the opportunity to explain why you thought I was wrong, I'll explain in very simple terms why you are NOT correct.
Business works like this
If you increase Liabilities, such as taxes, you must increase Income to maintain the same Profit.
I hope that was simple enough for you.
@Spetsnaz , they paid $0 in taxes because they lost money in previous years and got to write that off of future earnings. What do you want the government to do, tax negative income and give Amazon some money back and then tax them later when they do make money?
@big freedom, I’m usually on your side with things, but I don’t see how you can take an honest look at the current state of affairs and say that 2020 USA has the largest middle class and the smallest lower class. That’s very clearly not the case. Real estate costs, unemployment, overseas job relocation, cost of living, all of these and many more have gotten substantially worse since the 60s and 70s.
Putting aside the whole argument regarding trickle down, your claim simply isn’t backed up by any of the stats. The middle class is shrinking, rapidly, and has been since before the 90s. Wage stagnation plus a rapid increase in real estate costs mean there’s fewer homeowners per capita than pretty much ever before, with more people than ever living below the poverty line within the USA. Homeless numbers have never been higher.
The use of cheap Chinese labour is a huge part of why this decline has happened, with the obsoletion of so many American jobs. The nuclear family has all but fallen
apart, with the highest divorce rate in recorded history, and the end result of that is generational poverty and a consistently high crime rate, both of which factor towards the decaying of the middle class.
As for the idea that trickle down economics is an ideology pushed only by socialists, you’re smarter than that. Idiocy isn’t restricted towards any one end of the political spectrum, and plenty of right wingers have made that idiotic argument, not just left wingers.
@Spetsnaz , Except you forgot a few hundred key facts.
#1 if you try to overtax the rich, they leave and outsource their jobs to China.
Most of America is actually middle class, but that gets skewed depending on your definition of middle class.
#2 all systems without fail leads towards corruption.
Everything living deals with corruption till its death.
We don’t have a good way of stemming corruption without absolutely destroying freedom.
#3 capitalism is the single strongest method of economic growth and will inevitably lead to the massively rich.
Despite the massively rich in the respective countries the average person in the west, (Europe and the Uk, to the USA) are far better off then say, India or China.
People like you forget that the rich spend quite a lot of money, inevitably die, and that their money goes back into the economy eventually.
Doesn’t matter if it’s their offspring buying homes, food, clothing or luxuries.
Pareto Principle exists for a reason.
@ Michishige Shou, look up taxation rates of the upper class or wealthy during the "golden age of economics".
Spoiler it's really high.
Pareto principle is pretty simplified game theory is much more interesting for optimization.
The rich do not spend enough money back into the economy to offset the loss from the middle-lower income population. Taxing based on where they operate is a good idea. Abolishing tax shelters is also good. The problem is wealth accumulation. Most rich people are good at saving which is part of why they are rich (often they also find the cheapest way of producing regardless). This means the money does not go back into the economy directly and rather is used in long term investing or other means to prolong or grow the wealth. This also does not distribute the money as it's often only invested in other another company's growth which doesnt usually lower costs to consumers and those other companies are usually owned by wealthier people.
@Spetsnaz , because of laws and taxes favoring massive corporations and strangling the life out of smaller businesses.
Trickle down economics is a successful strawman. Nothing else.
@Azyoulikeit, I didn’t answer you because it’s the holidays and I don’t spend all day looking at replies on a funny pictures app. Firstly your explanation was literally the most basic business economics equation there is, and yet it misses the point. The reason your assumption that taxes directly lead to increased prices is false is because competition exists. If the government began taxing Amazon more, Amazon couldn’t simply raise all their prices, as people would find cheaper or more satisfactory options. So major companies will often allow taxes to eat into profits to maintain market share, which in turn allows them to lower costs via economies of scale. Having more of the market is preferable to chasing high margins at the expense of losing customers.
@CocoasBro, trickle down economics is literally what you described. “Less and taxes favoring massive corporations” IS trickle down economics. It is the idea that giving more money to wealthy individuals and large corporations will give them the excess income to take more risks, create jobs, and increase pay. In reality, none of that happens. They trim the fat, cut employees to increase profitability, and pass on all the extra money to board members, executives, and shareholders, while killing small businesses and screwing over their employees.
@Spetsnaz , no trickle down economics is the idea that we take less taxes from only the corporations and not just less taxes in general.
@Spetsnaz , you are a useful idiot. Trickle down worked amazingly well, just look at the rise of the Chinese middle class. Think about it rather than guzzle “peer reviewed” garbage written by globalists and peer reviewed by globalists.
A little bit of ego flattering and you loose your ability to think critically.
@Hot Coffee, lmao that whole rant was hilarious. “Screw all those experts and their “education” and “field experience” my feelings say this works and I know better than people who do this for a living”
@Spetsnaz , trickle down economics was invented by Democrats to make the rich seem stupid. None of the rich actually believes in trickle down.
@Azyoulikeit, the burden of taxation actually relies on elasticity, so it’s impossible to say in an undefined hypothetical if supply or demand would bear the burden. It could go either way depending on the good. Hope that helps 👍🏼
@drinkingBleach, my point was the tax burden is passed along to the consumer in the cost of the product.
@Azyoulikeit, In some regard, sure, but not all. Without an understanding of price elasticity, we cannot make any conclusion about who bears how much of the burden. I will say perfectly inelastic demand/elastic supply with consumers paying 100% of the tax is very rare.
@Spetsnaz , I am one of those experts, my opinion comes from experience and first hand knowledge of how research and experience are gained and who controls what ideas get protection and what gets ostracized.
A popular idea is not equivalent to reality. If you think a group of people in an artificial and insulated environment think something will work because they’re incompetent researchers but hold onto their jobs because they’re excellent politicians, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
@owanobi, what you don’t seem to realize is that there is not a call for full blown socialism, just implementing policies that would be socialist in nature, which, surprise, is an exact description of everything taxes pay for.
Beyond that you’re obviously comparing any idea of socialism as communism. Propaganda still propped up from the Cold War era. Truth is, when the wealthy were taxed the economy boomed.
@Cloverleaf, Socialism is communism lite. I don't care what "propaganda" you think I'm getting. If you tax the rich, they will take their money where ever there are lower taxes. We see it time and time again. Just look at California, we have are having a mass exodus of people and businesses because of the horrible tax rates and lockdowns. This also extends to the very wealthy.
To be fair we do currently have some socialist policies in effect right now like welfare, which does help some people but the way it is set up can cause people to become trapped. Safe to say I'm not a fan of it but I see where it helps people sometimes.
Also, Taxation is theft.
@big freedom, for someone named big freedom im surprised you love having the boot of giant corporations slammed on your neck.
@stormageddon98, I despise the boot of corporatism. Which is why I advocate for removing their ability to write their own laws. We keep passing more regulations, and the corps keep getting more power. How does anyone still not get the direct correlation? It is obvious to all with any ability at all to see things logically.
@Cloverleaf, Google “definition of socialism”. It’s right there: a transitional state between capitalism and communism.
Socialism is a tool to convince the useful idiots to move away from the free market. It’s designed to be a death by a thousand cuts.
@Runnin with scissors, investing in another companies growth = more jobs. Period. That is how the wealthy put their money back into the economy. Buying a product is a short term gain that benefits a few people one time. Creating a single job benefits dozens of people continuously.
The whole “tax the rich” is just class warfare for idiots that don’t understand economics or history or human nature.
@I Are Lebo, this is why I have this debate. We allow corporations to literally write their own laws, by buying the legislatures.
The people then think, “corporations bad” we must pass laws restricting them. To which the big corporations get to pass more laws, ensuring that they alone can abide by them, and eliminating competition. To which people think, “that was bad, let’s go further”.. and the cycle keeps going.
I advocate for making them unable to write their own laws, and eliminate the laws that they wrote to stop competition. To which the people call me the corporation lover and and all sorts of illogical nonsense.
They keep believing that continuing to do the same thing will get different results... and I’m the illogical one.
@big freedom, I think you’re a little too ingrained in the realm of a capitalism only ideology. We have socialist policies in place. Have for ages. It pays for police, firefighters, social security, Medicare, roads, EMTs, and so much more.
You’re under the belief that is corporations pushing for this stuff. They’re not. The laws they push for? Back to an unregulated free market. One where the giants already there can just strong arm everything with their wealth.
@Cloverleaf, I wish you morons would learn the difference between social services and socialism. Please take a basic Econ class.
Yes, 100% corporations push for these laws. Are you effing seriously saying that you think they don’t? That is THE most naive and ignorant comment, ever, in the history of the internet.
@owanobi, “taxation is theft”
Those three words are the economic and social litmus test of whether someone is worth listening to. Anyone who seriously makes the argument that any taxes is the government stealing from them, is, quite frankly, a moron.
Without taxes, there’s no nation state. With no nation state, there are no protected rights. All that’s left then is the brief period of anarchy before the next totalitarian takeover.
The nations that don’t tax are the same ones that have no infrastructure and no human rights.
@big freedom, absolutely, there needs to be a separation of corp and state the same way as church and state. The corruption is only possible because of loopholes intentionally placed in the law by the politicians that are strongly incentivized to play along with corporate interests.
This isn’t a problem that would be solved by socialism or communism, because the problem isn’t an economic one, it’s a political and legal one. In fact, socialism and communism make this problem worse, which we’ve seen over and over again, like in modern day Venezuela and Cuba.
I don’t pretend to have all the solutions, but the starting point is preventing politicians from being influenced by corporate leaders into disregarding long term planning for short term gains.
@Cloverleaf, you have fallen into the same trap that many other people have, in mistaking social services with socialism. A police force is not socialism, neither is a postal service or fire response. Socialism is when the means of production are controlled by the state. When manufacturing of goods is no longer the domain of private citizens, but is owned and controlled by the government.
Spending taxes on the development and maintenance of a nation isn’t socialism, it’s infrastructure.
@I Are Lebo, I agree that some taxes are fine, but when we pay income, property, and sales tax, not to mention any other taxes I cant remember. Especially when the government does little to show for all those taxes we pay (especially right now forcing people to close their businesses) it is bordering more on theft to me.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying my taxes but in my state (california) you are basically paying taxes on par with a socialist society, so forgive me if im not a huge fan of taxes.
The "Taxation is theft" line is more of a joke at this point since I agree with you that it is very hard to run a government without taxes of some kind.
@owanobi, I understand not being fond of taxes, but I don’t really think that you do understand my point. It’s not hard to run a government without taxes, it’s literally impossible. Governments are, by definition, not profitable entities. Countries don’t exist to make money.
The problem isn’t how much taxes are being taken. I live in Ontario, my tax rates are mostly higher than those of California. The problem is how the taxes are spent. When the people running the show aren’t kept honest or efficient, then there’s never enough money regardless of how high the tax rate is.
You’re coming at this backwards, blaming the tax collectors rather than the politicians.
@I Are Lebo, I said socialist policy. Taxation in the US is basically a case of everyone paying a share to the government with the idea that said government, which is supposed to be swayed by the will of the people, funds various things with said money.
By that, I’ve come to the conclusion that taxation is a socialist policy. Everyone is supposed to benefit from it.
As you said, the fact corporations and the rich can just throw their money at politicians to subvert the will of the people is the biggest problem.
@Cloverleaf, social support is not equivalent to socialist policy. Those do not mean the same thing. It’s a major difference, too. You’re correlating infrastructure with an economic philosophy that’s opposed to private property.
Taxation is not theft, but neither is it a socialist policy. Taxation is the means by which any government accrues resources. All functional governments tax, whether they’re capitalist, socialist, or communist, democratic, autocratic, or totalitarian. Even feudal societies have taxes.
You would benefit from doing actual research about what socialism is. I’m not in favour of socialism, myself. I think history has shown that it is a failed economic system, but you cannot effectively argue against something if you don’t understand what it is, and not to be insulting, but you very clearly do not.
But yes, the subverting of the will of the people is the core problem regardless of economic policy.
@big freedom, during the golden age of economics when our system was the best we taxed the "rich" at around 70% of their income. Its widely considered the best age of american and global economics. Go read a book.
@Runnin with scissors, what was the tax rate that was 70%? Income tax? Luxury tax? Earnings tax?
Plucking one number from a sea of statistics without regard for the context behind it is not being educated or worldly, it’s being biased and misleading.
@Runnin with scissors, “gO rEaD aBoOk” - walking, typing Dunning-Kruger graph
Communists: look social inequality you know what we need to solve this? LOTS AND LOTS OF TAXES AND EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT!
*Smaller businesses who cant afford to lobby for tax loopholes like massive corporations can start to die*
Communists: Look at this. These corporations are starting to monopolize and hoard money..... WE NEED EVEN MORE TAXES AND MORE GOVERNMENT POWER IN ORDER TO STOP THIS.
*several years later*
Communists: well all small businesses are dead and now disney has a super monopoly over everything. only one thing can save us now....
No not spliting the monopoly up and lowering taxes what are you stupid clearly we need to ANNEX DISNEY AND BECOME FULL FLEDGED COMMUNIST NATION. NO PRIVATE PROPERTY FOR ANYONE. Wow funny how that all happend on accident.
@CocoasBro, tax rate in the 60s was 90%. You're retarded.
@hollow114, the 1960s economic landscape was completely different from todays that was over a half a century ago. Thats comparing apples to oranges. The 1960s economy was far more insular and less globalistic. The money that went to the government wasnt being bleed into as many different nations and to the extent it is today.
@hollow114, effective tax rate was a lot lower. Nobody paid 90%. You’re not only retarded, but you seem to revel in remaining willfully ignorant.
@big freedom, yeah that was the point. Rich wouldn't overpay themselves and used incentives to lower the rate and it worked. You keep on enjoying the crony capitalist hellscape we live in.
@hollow114, you keep pushing for more government, which will lead to more cronyism. Because doing the same thing and expecting different results... the leftist way.
Did McCarthy scar people so much that a meme like this triggers such responses? Asking as an Aussie
I love this site. Its constantly right wing. But you get a few leftist posts and they all start crying about taking 9% of Jeff bezos' money like they're best buds.
@hollow114, I rarely see any posts that are right wing anymore, the Moderators are probably biased, but who knows maybe no one is trying to post them.
@hollow114, I love this site. Leftists, unable to debate logically, immediately resort to logical fallacies and bubble think.
Wonder what the drop rate on rich people is, does it change depending on their zone?