The annoying thing about the whole Nazi thing is that there are definitely Nazis. But the far left think that everyone on the far right is a nazi. Like if you have a varying opinion your a nazi. Basically makes it hard for actual Nazis to be held accountable.
@stormageddon98, I get what you’re saying, but personally, I’ve only heard the Nazi term applied to those who express some level of wanting to suppress or disenfranchise minority populations, whether it be people of color, religions other than Christian, or LGBT community. And if that’s the level of self importance you think you ought to live by, then you get the broad label. Personally, I’d prefer bigot, because it is more encompassing and applicable, without the harsh bite of historical specificity that is actually easy to refute.
@stormageddon98, you’re missing the key part here. The nazis were a leftist group. There are certainly bigots on both sides but the FAR left preaches everything the nazis did including antisemitism. The nazi party spun up hate for Jews by identifying them as being thieves and not deserving of their success. If you don’t believe me about the comparison go ask an extremist on the left about Israel and see if they say those things. If you wanna know how they made this opinion the only one go research the brown shirts of the nazi party. Then compare that to Antifa tactics. To summarize they would go to opposing side rallies and break them up however they could. Once they were in power they would just show up to opposition meetings and ensure they toed the line. If not people would disappear. I don’t think this could ever go anywhere near that far in the US but it’s important to note who the nazis were. If we don’t study and learn from history we are doomed to repeat it.
@Berntley, yeah I get what you're saying. I'm not big into politics. I just don't like it when terms are used against people that don't exactly deserve it. Kind of ruins the phrase and the meaning behind it. Like in a slightly different way but still similar, some people say that touching people by accident on the arm or something of that sort is sexual assault. It doesn't happen a lot but I've heard of it happening. Kind of dampens the meaning. Makes sexual assault to be a joke phrase even though it's a super serious crime. Calling everyone a nazi is basically making the phrase meaningless. Yeah know what I mean.
@BigJohnson86, while yes the nazis were a leftist group, what we in America call the conservative right also do lots of things one could identify as left. The calling of everything disagreeing with trump fake news is leftist, the "jokes" about violence against journalists and his opposition are leftist, when he doesn't disavow and condemn people who do violent things in his name or for his cause that is leftist. Don't forget politics is a fluid thing. Just becuase they are the right doesn't mean they are only the right.
@stormageddon98, that’s a fair line of thought. I support the use of exaggeration to make a point but there’s diminishing returns the more you do it. If everyone’s a nazi then no one is really a nazi.
@arverni, you’re not fully wrong but I think the fake news is a weak comparison. I didn’t vote for the Cheeto but he’s not always wrong when he does it. He’s just wrong often enough that the media can lambast him. Which violent person did he not condemn? Everyone of the politically violent attacks I’ve seen has been denounced by trump but I don’t follow him close enough to be confident I’ve seen them all.
@stormageddon98, I don’t know where you’re getting your info from, but nobody is saying that. What you’re more likely hearing is people saying that other people are saying that. Because there’s a lot of people who hold an abject defiance against the MeToo movement, and they’re trying to make an example of “where’s the line”, by mockingly stating “Next thing you know, you’re gonna brush up against a woman by accident, and get slapped with a lawsuit and put on a list for the rest of your life!” Which is as untrue as it is a disgusting form of fear mongering. And it’s usually coming from men who just don’t want to have to back down on seeking personal gratification through making other women uncomfortable with their relentless, “playful” advances.
@stormageddon98, they think everyone slightly right of far left is a Nazi. I’ve seen videos of morons calling liberal professor Nazi for saying that there are differences between men and women.
@Berntley, didn’t you recently compare Trump to Hitler?
@big freedom, I don’t remember the specific discussion. I generally try to avoid that direct line comparison, but there are parallels. The guy fancies himself a dictator and takes every opportunity to vilify minority populations and cultures, as well as to denigrate minority opposition moreso than others. If I compared him to Hitler, though, it probably wasn’t due to his bigotry, so much as his leadership style and general following. The trend that is taking place and historical similarities. More likely, I was involved in a discussion in which someone else was comparing him to Hitler, but didn’t specifically generate that point.
@Berntley, sorry, wasn’t you. It was Benderama “Trump is literally becoming the next Hitler” lol. He’s many many things but he’s definitely not ever going to be mass murdering Jews or anyone else.
@big freedom, yeah that's basically what I'm trying to say.
@big freedom, Maybe so, but nobody thought it was gonna happen the first time, either. His views have not been good for the public opinion, though, and his rhetoric has certainly served to ramp up and mobilize nationalist groups, and it can easily be a “one thing leads to another” situation. Especially with the underlying complacency of the political left.
@Berntley, there are far too many checks and balances here for that to even begin to happen. Rhetoric =\= mass murder. He’s a blow hard that says stupid shît.
@Berntley, that's exactly the sort of thing a Nazi's gonna say.
@big freedom, I am inclined to agree with you, for the most part, but if we’re gonna tug at the Hitler thread, his rhetoric was also not on par with mass murder in the beginning, either. But his rhetoric was able to mobilize people to the point of going along with it. The checks and balances would make me feel better, if I thought that a remotely significant portion of the government we have at present had the sack to promote anything but a self serving agenda. Everything outside of ensuring their own political supremacy amounts essentially to showboating, and if American complacency were to reach critical mass, which is the underlying agenda of the American political climate, there’s seriously no limit to what horrors the LibCon deceit machine could and would happily push forward with.
@BigJohnson86, leftist group? You complete and utter moron
@Unkle77, the national socialist party is a left wing group by accepted standards of what is political right and left. They themselves denounced both the left and the right but if you run down the list of their goals they are firmly on the left. They wanted the state to control all forms of business. The government would use this to give the social programs widespread use. If this sounds like they support right wing politics please elaborate. Your using revisionist history to see what you want to be true. If nazi politicians ran on their basic platforms and policies today they would widely be considered leftists. Once again I don’t think that there is anything resembling a liberal today that wants anything to do with their eugenics program that made them universally reviled. But neither does the right and their social policies don’t line up with the nazis.
@BigJohnson86, nazism was rooted in fascism and submission to a strong leader. Left wing policies in 1930s were based on the will of the commune (people) hence “communism”. Left and right wing are loose useless terms to describe political opinion and idiots are using them to label Nazis as left wing. It’s moronic. Nazis killed 6m Jews and were disgustingly racist. Any cûnt who declares themselves a Nazi or neo-Nazi is scum and a traitor to western civilisation. Stop being distracted by pointless debates on “left or right”. The only thing we need to know about nazism is that it murdered millions of innocent civilians. Anybody who wants to reason with Nazis or give them a platform is a cünt too, whether they be left or right
@BigJohnson86, I tried to reply to unkle77 but somehow he blocked me. Too sensitive to have a debate. Typical
@Unkle77, if left is a useless term why did you object so strongly to it? If it’s worthless it shouldn’t matter and that’s exactly where you jumped into this conversation and that’s all you jumped in with. Leftism is defined as believing the government should have more power over the people. Where right wing believes that people should have more power over their own lives. I know which one of those describes nazi doctrine and it ain’t right wing.
Do you plan to address my actual statements about why they’re a left wing policy or just shout that you’re anti nazi? The overwhelming majority of people are anti nazi so I’m not sure what actual point you’re trying to make since everyone already has those opinions. You might as well say water is wet or the sky is blue since they’d bring the same amount of information to the conversation.
@stormageddon98, there was this guy I went to school with. He was adopted into a rich family. Definitely attention seeker. I met him once After High School. He was wearing a sleeveless shirt. And after talking with him for a second I noticed he had a swastika tattooed on his lower arm. Uncomfortable I quickly ended the conversation politely. Like this guy wore it proudly. Later on that week I heard he got the living s*** beaten out of him. I will say another fun fact about this guy. His cousin is a famous celebrity. Who is married to an even bigger celebrity.
the reason I bring this up. Like the guy I just referred to. it seems like a lot of the newer generation of Nazis. Are more attention Seekers. knowing that if they spread the word of Nazism. They will get the attention they seek.
@BigJohnson86, you’re wrong. Leftism is not about more power to the government. You’re insane at worst, very young at best. Marxism talks about communal ownership of means of production (I’m not a communist, just someone with a politics degree). Leftism encompasses a huge range of beliefs including veganism, feminism, anti racism, anti globalisation, workers rights, strong public sector, social democracy and anarchism (more power to government?!). To reduce leftism to “more government power” is ridiculous and basic. I objected strongly because its trying to make a link between nazism and leftism and that’s dumb. Ps: I didn’t block you. I don’t think you can block people on here. Look, I hope you learn something from this dialogue. Suggest you read some Karl Marx or Gerald Kaufman rather than get your knowledge on communism and “leftism” from Fox News or Funny Pics
@Lord Palpatine, I feel like a lot of people are just doing it to defy the status quo. It's like they think they're the new punk rock.
@Unkle77, leftism in a political sphere centers around the need for change and progression via the use of a government representative of the people. Anarchism is at best a loosely attached far left branch political association. Anarchy in it of itself prevents it from falling on a political scale because they oppose it entirely. I’ve literally said nothing about communism so I don’t know why you keep harping on it. I also didn’t say you blocked me so I don’t know why you said that either. And you still haven’t provided a single thing to refute the idea that the nazi party would not be a left organization today other than to say no I’m wrong I don’t know anything. If you have actual facts then I’d love to hear them. But all you’ve done is try to yell louder to insist you’re right. You are behaving like a petulant child and insisting you get your way.
@BigJohnson86, dammit I wish I could reply to him! “Has a politics degree” (whatever that means) but does not understand that the left uses the state to enforce their ideals?
He is out of his league. Unkle77 if you’re reading this, unblock me and debate me, unless you’re still to afraid of facts and logic.
@BigJohnson86, every fücking political project uses the government or the state to implement change you nönce! It’s not exclusive to nazism or left wing parties! Communism is the most predominant leftist ideology that’s why I mention it. In modern democracies, right wing and left wing parties rely on the state to get things done. Right wing parties like republicans use it to maintain law and order, fight wars or fix elections, the democrats and socialists in Europe use it for healthcare funding. It doesn’t make either of them similar to Nazism just because they rely on governmental bodies. I really hope you understand this 🙏🏽
@big freedom, I haven’t blocked you? Didn’t think you could on this app? Reply whatever you want to reply but the internet might just block out ill thought out adolescent drivel
@Unkle77, I do not understand this. How many communists do you think there are in western society that they are the predominant leftist ideology? You can’t honestly think those examples are valid can you? You think right wing policy is centered around fixing elections and declaring war? Right wingers mostly advocate for the state leaving people alone as long as they’re not hurting others. I can’t remember where I first heard this analogy but it’s how I view the average conservatives. Most conservatives want the government to be the referee not a participant in the game. They want them to just make sure things don’t get out of hand and people are playing by the rules. Not trying to interfere in every single play.
You also still completely ignore your chance to rebutt the nazis are lefties. Which political policies did the nazis advocate that’s not leftist? Do you actually have anything?
@BigJohnson86, I can only conclude that you when you read something, you don’t understand what you’re reading. I don’t think I can make it any clearer but I’ll have one last go. Nazism cannot he regarded as leftist purely on the basis that German nazism was based on strong government and that socialist parties advocate state intervention on healthcare, tax and education. All political projects and philosophies with the exception of anarchism and early communism require the state and governmental agencies. Do you understand what I just wrote? Even right wing governments such as conservatives in the UK and republicans require state apparatus. Still following? For example, a strong police force, strong military, property laws and a judiciary that enforces these laws are all governmental bodies. Still following? Nazism was built on strong law & order, on secret police, on enforcing their laws. Effective govt is required if you’re a leftist or right wing party. Please just get it man🙏🏽
@Unkle77, I get what you’re saying. You’re just illiterate apparently. Are you in anyway implying that a strong socialist platform where private industry cedes control to the government in almost everything is not a leftist platform then I am gonna need a credible cite cuz that goes against everything I’ve ever read or heard even by left wing people. That type of government power over people is a defining trait of leftist policy that flys in the face of right wing policies where minimal government is the goal.
@BigJohnson86, you’re focusing on one element, which is state control of means of production. This happened in Italy under Mussolini too. Just because the state owns the means of production, doesn’t make it leftist, it’s a trait of fascism too. I think you’re heads gone and you’re not absorbing anything I’m telling you. A strong state or state intervention is neither left or right wing. It’s a means to delivering your political ideals. Left wing thinking renounces the aryan racist shît that Nazis spouted hence calling Nazis left wing is dumbest thing anyone with a brain could do. Or in your case, anyone without a brain too. Read some books, don’t just scroll on your phone. I’m guessing you’re a teenager right?
@Unkle77, I think you don’t understand the difference between strong and large. Every form wants a strong government so saying that is wasting effort. The contention is the size and scope. Right wing wants small and/or minimal government powers. That does not mean no government no matter how many times you seem to try to get me to say. I also contend that many leftists openly support racism though not genocide. If you wanna keep throwing down on that feel free.
And a large amount of government intervention is very much a leftist philosophy. I honestly don’t understand how you don’t know this with your “politics degree”.
I’m a 32 year old engineer that served 9 years in the navy. You keep talking down to me yet you talk as though any government function is the same as having police, military or a court system. If you don’t have a certain amount of infrastructure then you wouldn’t even be considered a real government by most
Yea. It was about opinion, not about genocide.
edit:what about this statement offended you vesrox?
@ThePandaPool , and Poland
@ThePandaPool , the genocide was due to the opinion...
@ThePandaPool , I mean, it was technically about their respective opinions on genocide.
They are on the right side of this, let’s show our support!
@megamanx181x, I don’t know, have you seen the way HasidicJews Drive? There’s a reason rear ending someone is called a Lakewood airbrake
Boy that's a brain pain to have to read in some manner.
That's a very extreme, abusive, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and naziphobic response
Thus the problem with "everyone has the right to express themselves the way they see fit."
Is it unironic though?
@Galapple, Not about Nazis, but I did recently see someone complain about the words homophobe and transphobic, because it makes the people who are “uncomfortable” with gays look intolerant. It’s not a huge leap to imagine the same sentiment being felt for bigots.