We have a board of education that will hire experts of a field to come in and inspect a new program. Only to push it through after both of the experts astoundingly disagree with the program's implementation. That's how we got common core.
@That one lurker, My understanding is that common core was just suppose to be a standard at which all schools are teaching the same material at the same grade regardless of location or state. One of the reasons for it was so that children who move to different locations are learning the things that they were learning when they left their old school rather than being behind or ahead of where ever they move to.
What we seem to of gotten is a common core that dictates more than just material being taught but how its taught. Math seems to be the most complained about thing thats taught without flexibility to how each kid solves the problems.
@Seohn, personal opinion here, I think advanced mathematics should be taught as electives with only a dabbling of algebra being taught in the classrooms. The rest of math should be " practical mathematics" starting around 9th or so. Balancing check books and basics of tax law, that sort of stuff.
@That one lurker, they should just make a class called life skills where they teach you how to do basic life skills like that plus cooking, sewing, and small scale wood working
@32Shaq32, like home ec?
@That one lurker, yup learned all that in my home ec/wood shop class. Point being that they do teach stuff like balancing a check book (witch is really easy) (unless you are referring to budgeting which is harder) and basic tax forms, just nobody takes home ec because "it's for girls" or "it's sexist". Then they complain about not knowing the stuff.
@32Shaq32, kind of why I wouldn't mind taking it out of a gendered environment.
Budgeting courses would be a part of it, I don't know to what extent it would play. But I was mostly thinking about a class to show kids how to do there own taxes, my same thought to basic car maintenance/repair being a part of driver's ed. If you can't do the "simple" stuff you shouldn't be aloud to use it.
I don't know, I think it's a start of a good idea, it just hasn't been fleshed out.
@That one lurker, agreed with the know the simple or don't use it principal. My driver's ed class taught you about basic vehicle maintenance (Did a poor job at it tho. Never demonstrated any of it just talked about what to do.) As far as taxes go the basics stay the same but the numbers, rules, what you can and can't count, and a whole bunch of other stuff change on a yearly basis.
@That one lurker, common core is just a set of standards. Even so, the implementation should have started in 1st grade and proceeded to increase by 1 grade every year. Common core also increases knowledge by trying to get kids to have dynamic approaches (something which most adults fail at)
@Implicit88, my wife teaches in spanish so kids there get bilingual educations. The school just added another bilingual program, so now kids and parents can choose english, Spanish, or Portuguese as the primary language taught. Schools really need to be revamped, most schools in the world are pathetic and most dont actually teach you how to be analytical.
@Implicit88, oh yes, the common core door to door salesman. I would definitely be buying what you're saying if you nearly take your foot out of my door frame.
I care little for the content, having it no personal stake in the matter, and no need to learn it. I find the methods of implementation to be troubling, and rather authoritarian. What was it called in Soviet Russia new math? Math to support the party's needs. It can't be that a bunch of socialist activists got onto the board and decided to create subjectivist math to push there failed ideology to children that can't count. Breeding the perfect little communist.
@That one lurker, u dont know what u dont know
@Implicit88, these are also the words that got schrödinger both permanently banned from Petco and implemented the no returns policy.
@Seohn, actually that was the purpose of the establishment of the US Department of Education, to have all schools throughout the states teach the same type of curriculum. It used to be that each state used their own curriculum, honestly that's why many of our parents education was much better than ours. The states could make changes and accommodate individual schools much more quickly than the federal government can now. In fact many of the decisions made for our schools are made by bureaucrats that have never had experience of teaching in a school or even dealing with children.
Common Core was something that Obama actually bribed the US Department of Education to implement by 2012 in order to receive more federal funding. He actually bribed a federal agency to implement an untested curriculum that his administration thought was the bees knees, using federal funds. Completely illegal! But nobody cared.
@awizard, Starting to wonder if the outcry against common core is due to the teaching methods. Or that the material is too advanced for states that are much less education focused. Another words, teaching what some view as higher grade material at a later grade even though its being taught in earlier younger grades elsewhere. This may seem to be leading to kids seeming dumber by comparison.
Not saying this is the case. I’m saying to be against schools teaching a common level of material to elevate the overall level of education or knowledge so that kids are on an even footing no matter where they live. Seems like an odd thing not to support. What good reason would people have for not being for making sure kids have a similar education?
My point is. A kid in one state would seem dumber by comparison to a kid in another who learned the material years earlier.
Though I do think the no child left behind that became a fudge the tests to maintain funds movement. Was a bad thing.
@awizard, assuming someone doesn’t find a loophole and takes advantage of the system. The one major flaw to the common core is that it would take several years for the generation to be on an even footing. Because some schools and other states teach more advance things earlier in a child’s education than other states.
So this would cause what would appear to be poor education per age group.
To counter this. The system probably should have been implemented better. It should’ve started in the first two years of a child’s education and slowly went with them as they progressed in each year. In other words the common core should’ve been rolled out over several years. Progressing one year at a time with the group it began with.
@Seohn, if the curriculum is flawed to begin with, it won't make a change at all. Which it hasn't made a change to these kids overall performance. In fact a lot of kids, especially in low income areas and families, are doing worse. It remains a solution pushed through by bureaucrats and politicians (instead of actual educators) that furthers the education gap between the classes in our public schools. But it has been embraced for it's implementation of teaching inclusion and political correctness (once again a political agenda). If you ask me, it's not very inclusive or politically correct to leave a class of people in the dust, just to further a political agenda.
@awizard, I don’t think they’re so much doing worse exactly as the material is just more advanced than what they were being taught before. Thus making it more difficult and reducing grades. (I hope I’m explaining that in a way that’s understandable.)
A lot of people that deal with the common core or think about the common core forget one key thing. And there have been studies that done on what I’m about to explain from what I have read.
Studies I had read when dealing with when my own kids age to start school after moving to another state. The study showed that once a child is behind it is far more difficult and far less likely they will ever catch up. You cant hold a child back starting preschool or kindergarten because you think they are “not ready” or “too young” as some parents do with their children. And then expect them to catch back up to a child who started learning the material years before them.
Which I think is something the common core also does not take into account.
@awizard, The example I used is my kid going to school in Kentucky vrs Florida. At the time in Kentucky they start kids at close to age 5 for kindergarten. But it annoyed me that Florida was big on holding kids back until they were 6 or so from what I saw. Usually due to what they called emotional maturity, or so was the argument I got.
As someone big on education I found that outright silly. Hold a child capable of learning back due to emotional maturity. To me thats like saying. The kids emotions make them so dumb they have to wait until they are older to learn basic grammar or basic math. So may as well stunt them even further and wait until a later age then what they should be learning at. Making them learn stuff later and be behind the rest of the kids in terms of what age they learn material.
Of course this was an argument I had with the school system in Florida years ago. I think they have since lowered the starting age. Or at least added a test in system like Kentucky has.
@awizard, My point of using that example hopefully makes what I’m trying to convey more apparent. And how the common core may seem like the kids are doing worse. And technically they are but it’s only because they are behind to begin with then what the common core says they should be at for their age.
Thats what I think may be the real reason why the common core doesnt seem all that great at the moment.
Which is why I think perhaps it should’ve been rolled out starting with kindergarten and following the kids that it was introduced to first as they move onto the next grade throughout their years. Until you have an entire generation that’s only using that new system. Instead of forcing the older generation that’s behind what the new system says they should be at. A system thats giving them far too advanced stuff than what they were taught before.....
@awizard, Or now that I think about it. To simplify what I mean. Its like teaching algebra to a child just learning how to add and subtract basic numbers. Of course how well they are doing in school will be bad or appear terrible.
Sorry for such a long post. I wanted to make sure I was explaining how I thought of it properly.
There is nothing stopping you from learning a new language on your own nor from putting in the effort to actually learn more than just 5 colors in Spanish.
@Richard Cypher, shhh that would mean personal responsibility
@carguy25, or the Duolingo owl coming to kill our families.
@carguy25, I’m pretty sure that shjt was banned a few years ago, careful who you say that to, you might get woked on for oppressing something
@Hot Coffee, MUH MUH OPPRESSSHIOUN IS MORE THAN YOURS
@Richard Cypher, Yeah that’s true, but learning a second language once you get older is very time consuming and way more difficult than it would be if you started at a young age, which is what the post is talking about. The education system doesnt “need” to have better foreign language courses, but it would definitely be beneficial to have more bilingual citizens.
@K1l, I’m going to jump in with a possible different perspective. I learned how to speak a second language (rudimentary at best) as an adult. It took considerable time and effort. Although I can’t speak perfect Spanish; I learned how to speak and write English better. It was a profound impact on my verbal, written, and interpersonal communication skills as an adult; I rely on these skills every day. Looking back; I wish I had started earlier when my brain was more elastic than it was as an adult.
Just my 2 cents.
@Dudeliness, I started learning German as a freshman in high school, and I noticed the same effect. However, I believe that’s part of what makes it so much easier as a child to learn a new language, because learning a new language as you’re learning the finer intricacies of your own language is self-reinforcing. Yes, it’s totally possible to learn new languages when you’re older (however complicated it can be), and yes, it can still have a positive impact on your understanding of your native language all the same, but imagine if kids had that from an earlier age here, like they do in other countries. Think of how much easier half the comments on this app would be to read.
@Richard Cypher, WRONG! It’s up to the government to dictate what we can and can’t do! How dare you sir!
@Richard Cypher, True, but it's much harder to learn a new language starting at say, sixteen, than if it were taught from age five or six. I would have really appreciated being taught a different language from a young age rather than struggling to pick one up in high school.
The American school system works exactly as it’s designed to and that’s the fvcked up part
Government education was never meant to be the primary form or means of education. Government was to set baseline standards and the private schools were to teach above it. Unfortunately, privately run, lower education has become rare and expensive due to excessive government overreach and invasive/inhibitive rules and legislation.
TL;DR : If you really care, open your own private school and set a better curriculum.
@PyroCMXXVI, but clearly this system doesn't work very well, especially considering that none of the most well-educated countries in the world use this system.
@PyroCMXXVI, in a private school they're forced to use the same curriculums as in public school. I remember this clearly, I was in secound grade when the no child left behind program came into effect. We had to buy all new books, and all the math got easy. In fact before everything went tits up we was learning how to balance check books and write in cursive. After second grade I can swear to this, we had no more calligraphy and learned nothing more about balancing finances.
@That one lurker, I actually didn't know that. My experience was that the private schools (which I was never in but visited often for band) kept had whatever curriculum the school administrator wanted so long as they taught whatever was govt. mandated. Then again, I was already in HS by the time any of the common core BS was making it's way to my neck of the woods. So we need to declare private schools as a private institution/business that the govt. can only set loose guidelines for and no hard rules. Not easy, but possible with time, effort and awareness.
@PyroCMXXVI, I couldn’t disagree with you more. That’s how you get schools that teach Creationism in science class or sex ed classes that tell their students not to use condoms. Most private schools are religiously based. Giving them free reign to determine the curriculum makes this worse, not better.
@That one lurker, bushes no child left behind. Single most hurtful program in the world.
That’s what happens when you let government run shït.
I am frkm a country called Slovakia and I can fluently speak Russian, English, a little bit of German, some Spanish and a really small amount of swedish. Granted I taught myself most of that because the schools here aren't the best either. But English is a mandatory subject here
Knowing two languages is cool, but overrated here in the US.
@But I have pants on, You say that, but can you watch hentai without the subtitles, and still grasp the subtleties of the manko?
@But I have pants on, Overrated until the only difference between a company hiring you or a competitor fighting for the same job is that they're bilingual and you're not. And it's much more necessary in the Canadian and Mexican border states where being able to speak English and French/Spanish opens you up to much more job and life opportunities than just knowing English.
@But I have pants on, if you stay in your small town with only native english speakers, probably. However, if you want to move beyond that horizon multiple languages can be very useful.
@Implicit88, I’ve lived in 9 states including on both coasts and borders. Still don’t think learning another language is that important as a baseline for education. Je parle francais et habla espanol (really wish I had the accent keys for this) enough that when I visit other countries I can communicate. As an engineer I wish we’d stop half assing our math and science cuz I’m more embarrassed about those fields being so poor. As a technology based country I meet so many idiots that can’t do basic math or problem solving. There’s no driving need to know a second language hear as there’s no dominant language a majority of people use. But if we start cranking out scientists and stuff we can make the world better and invent new things
@BigJohnson86, i never said it was needed, but it can give you the competitive edge. Not to mention learning multiple languages while you are young lead to a more successful live that your single language peers. Unfortunately, many people hate math and science and problem solving due to the overall school environment we have. Learning multiple languages has shown to make people more divergent thinkers. I have a simple question i ask people to gauge their mathematical abilities. I ask,”how many .01 cents make a dollar?” The amount of people that get it wrong is astounding, but having a school system based on memorization instead of learning breeds this.
@BigJohnson86, my wife asks first grades to explain their answers for world questions that ask you to do simple math. Like you have ten apples, your friend takes 4, how many apples do you have left? Sometimes even asks them to solve it multiple ways. Its amazing how a lot of the parents get mad at this homework because the parents themselves cant do it.
@Implicit88, agreed. Go meet people that are products of something like the French or Chinese systems and it’s almost embarrassing how much better the average student is that I meet.
@BigJohnson86, exactly, there is a reason why a lot of the top hackers are from other languages than english. Its because they usually have to learn english to program. This is usually done at a young age and the kid then knows 2 social languages and a few programming ones while Americans barely know English.
Maybe because you keep electing corporate pieces of sh!t. Warren 2020
The system can never be good in a place where the people suck. Nothing is keeping any school from implementing language classes and being stricter like they are in China, but no one does sh!t. Stop blaming the national system, and start encouraging your local schools and actually be a part of those decisions.
At least they said colours in Spanish
There are tons of immersion classes offered all over the country. I did a German immersion program all through elementary school. There are lots of options if you really want to, it's just that most people don't because besides Spanish, there's not really a reason to learn another language.
Then maybe run for office or get involved in city council discussions instead of posting about it on tumblr?