Then I guess Orange would be the new Black...
@Dr Rick Sanchez, #bestcomments
@Dr Rick Sanchez, not unless he gets Snooki for a new vice.
@Dr Rick Sanchez, well done you drunk old man
@Dr Rick Sanchez, how did you do that
@Dr Rick Sanchez, join my campaign? I could use a guy with your skills. Trump2016🇺🇸
@Dr Rick Sanchez, I hate that I can only upvote this once
@Dr Rick Sanchez, one of the best comments I've ever seen. You win this year!
@Dr Rick Sanchez, bravo sir
Can we stop giving this guy free publicity
@the turnt turtle, what if he builds up his votes and drops out to give the runner up the win. I heard he was in good with the clintons
@the turnt turtle, he paid for this
@the turnt turtle, I don't think it's normally good publicity lol
@the turnt turtle, can we stop having politics in our funny?
@the turnt turtle, only for a small loan of one million dollars
@the turnt turtle, oh he'll win. I guarantee it.
He'll turn all of the United States into a game show.
@SquidwardTorteIIini, at least he would make it interesting. Either way the country is screwed.
Hey, it wouldn't be the first time he forced a black family out of their home
@Kangaroo Jacked, *shots fired*
@Kangaroo Jacked, 🔥
Why do people like this man?
I'm legitimately asking. He's clearly insane. He's ignorant as hell. And he's also really aggressive. These are all great characteristics for an entertainer, but possibly the very worst characteristics in a President, let alone a world leader.
@I Are Lebo, because people are sick of what most candidates are. The "I'll give you what you want just vote for me" same old same old kiss *** liars, who just offer people free stuff and try not to hurt anyone's feelings. I'm not a trump supporter, but I'm certainly sick of it too.
@Fun Facts 101, and I get that. I do. But if Trump actually tries to do everything he claims he will upon being elected president, it will be really bad for America.
Putting up a wall between America and Mexico?! Is he retarded? Enforcing extra rules against Muslims? That's bringing back segregation, just against a different group this time.
His policies seem like they would either bring social progress back three generations, or lead the country to war. Maybe both.
Unless he too is a liar making promises he has no intention of delivering on.
@I Are Lebo, he is a politician, so I'm sure he is. But he said he wants Ted Cruz to be by his side if wins. So if some chance he does, I feel like Ted would keep him in check. Yes, a lot of ideas he has are just awful, but that's what the congress is for as well.
@Fun Facts 101, fair enough.
I still don't understand why people like him so much.
People keep going on about how refreshing the change is, but he's just a different flavoured pile of shït.
@I Are Lebo, not everyone likes the same old flavor though. I think a lot of people know he isn't that great. But not acting like a politician. And I guess people like that.
@Fun Facts 101, I get that. I just mean that while the same old flavour isn't enjoyable (I refuse to vote myself most of the time because I'm choosing between slightly different people I don't like or agree with), he isn't an improvement.
I recognize that people have differing preferences than myself. I completely understand why people are sick and tired of 'regular' politicians. I just don't understand what they do like about Trump.
@I Are Lebo, honestly, I don't either. It makes me happy about him not being politically correct. But how he acts makes me cringe, so I agree with you on that. And honestly, my vote wouldn't matter either since I'd vote libitarian, and no one cares about third party anymore.
@Fun Facts 101, the two party system really is killing us... But any third party candidate that gets a lick of recognition inevitably leave slightly more toward the right or the left, and is crushed by that side because all they are doing is 'stealing votes'
Because of this I don't think we'll ever be able to fix it
@Dapper Fox, well, because really there's only right or left. They're almost completely opposite of each other, but republican and libitarian are different like liberal and democrat. Still the same idea between them for each party though, most of the time.
@Dapper Fox, @Fun Facts 101, I had a conversation with my dad about this last night where he brought up the disturbing similarities between the political climate now and the political climate leading up to the American Civil War. The schism between the parties deepens every year, and the trend is not a comforting one.
@I Are Lebo, hmm yeah that is disturbing really. Especially considering a civil war with our kind of technology is really impossible, we'd 100% destroy ourselves, so what would happen..?
@Dapper Fox, I don't think it's impossible at all. A modern civil war is completely feasible. Because the schism is more complicated than simple geography (instead of North vs. South it's Republican vs. Democrat), the lines are much more blurred.
I'd wager that the majority of actual violence in such a war would be small skirmishes, not pitched battles. The only impact modern technology could have on that would be the inclusion of drones, and both sides would have them.
But truthfully, I don't know. All I know is that something significant needs to change. Your country has gone from being the most advanced society on Earth to being the very epitomy of beurocracy over the last few decades.
@Dapper Fox, I joked about this on a previous thread, but in all seriousness, the average American does not understand what freedom is. It seems like half of you are obsessed with denying the rights of various groups and the other half is just as obsessed with simply obsessing about it. The reactions on both sides to these issues is extreme. Kim Davis, Rachel Dolezal, Caityn Jenner. All of these are things that frankly, do not deserve to be national (let alone international) issues. One side fights against, the other side fights for, and no one minds their own business.
That's not the only issue. Did you know that there have been more mass shootings this year in the USA than days in the year so far?
Ice not even mentioned all the crap being thrown around regarding the elections and ISIS.
@Dapper Fox, Honestly, I blame the news media corporations. The word 'terrorist' has been thrown around so frequently over the last 15 years that the meaning has been warped to mean 'enemy'. But if you define terrorism as "seeking to spread fear and terror to further ones own goal", then CNN is a terrorist organization.
Of course, their goal is profits, polls and viewership, not the destruction of society. Wolf Blitzer is (I'm reasonably sure) not an evil man, but his job is to spread fear. By that definition, that makes him a terrorist.
@I Are Lebo, I agree with just about all of that. Especially the 'famous' people that shouldn't get a lick of attention. It's honestly hard to talk to anyone seriously about real issues with the country or the world.
We are in the age of information and the media is terribly corrupt. That and as a nation we seem to be in the complacency stage and all that comes with that. Many people get irrationally angry or will just use stolen internet arguments that they don't really understand, and most of the rest just don't care enough. Recipe for disaster.
Also, even less of us seem to understand the American dream and what made the country great in the first place...
One last comment: Not everyone here is like that though. If actually all of us were like what you and I described...well I don't even know. But there are a good number of level headed people here (which I'm sure you know) and it's important not to forget that.
@Dapper Fox, I don't know.... I think of some of the arguments that I've personally been in, most of them fit the bill....
@I Are Lebo, haha I can imagine. It's typically worse on the internet because it's easy to be ignorant and most people are only here to mindlessly surf
@I Are Lebo, if you don't mind me asking, are you in the UK? I follow football in England and am pretty active in the Villa community (sadly) and am exposed to a lot more because of it. Your thoughts remind me of what I've seen there
@Dapper Fox, nah. I'm Canadian. I live in southern Ontario.
@I Are Lebo, ahh ok my b
@Dapper Fox, nah, it's all good. 😊
As a voter, I don't care if I vote republican or democrat. But as a human with common sense, the things that republicans are saying makes me not want to vote for them.
@Conman33, i think both sides need to drop the "it's my way or the highway" mentality and learn to compromise and take the best of both sides. But that would be improvement, and the US can't have that
@Kangaroo Jacked, it's ridiculous that stubbornness is stronger than righteousness.
@Conman33, What part of common sense doesn't support republican views?? Opposing gay righ... ok maybe not that one, umm women's rig... sh*t that one either... Climate ch... wait they don't believe in that... Gun contr...oh hell no, not touching that one. Uhh lemme get back to you
@Dr Rick Sanchez, haha.
@Dr Rick Sanchez, I know this is a joke but if you really think the republican party doesn't want equal rights for women...
@Conman33, Same could be said about every political party, especially the democrats.
@CriTiKa1, from the debates I've seen, the Republicans are infringing on civil liberties of Mexicans, Women, and other groups. I have yet to see this be an issue with Democrats. There are Republicans that don't do this but the ones getting the highest polls are doing this.
@Dapper Fox, Planned Parenthood is one of the main issues with women right now.
@Conman33, the things that liberals say makes me not want to vote for them as well...
@Dr Rick Sanchez, voting is just like driving a car. To go backward choose "R", to go forward choose "D"
@Conman33, you've been watching some heavily liberal reviews then. Trump has said dumb ass things, but any others sound like they just want to enforce the law to protect us and it's easy to take what they say and make it look bad. Planned parenthood is a whole different issue. Of course the Republicans don't agree with it, they don't think abortions should be a practice bar emergencies and special cases, but does that mean they are against women? There's a disconnect there I think. I'm not trying to attack you or anything I just am feeling pretty different about these things. Maybe it's just me, but also maybe you should try out a little more diverse of news sources? The democrats look really good in theory but for me they don't really seem to think about the consequences
@Conman33, well, it all depends really. The democrats dont seem to have those issues because they don't care, or plan to fix them. But they sure will tell you they are. Most of what they say isn't true, and uses false or just flat out whimsical information. The best example is Bernie Sanders saying he'll give everyone free stuff. With a campaign like that, I doubt he's getting votes because of what he thinks will better the country. And a lot of people vote for people like that.
@Kangaroo Jacked, please take all my up votes
@Conman33, to be fair neither party seems to be saying anything reasonable
@Kangaroo Jacked, trump isn't even a republican. He's just crazy. He is taking pages out of the nazi playbook. Like how can anyone vote for him?
@Conman33, Oh yeah, democrats saying they'll fix the health care system by fvcking it up even more is totally reasonable. Republicans say some crazy ass shjt, but democrats live in a fantasy world. I'd rather have a crazy motherfvcker who know the difference between reality and fantasy in office than a Democrat.
@Dapper Fox, a lot of news I watch is liberal but watching the debates helps to sort out what's exaggerated and what's true. But I still have like a year before I have to vote so that should help me decide who is for real and who is not.
@Conman33, Yeah having more time to figure it out for the first time feels like a luxury rather than just annoying. The debates to me almost seem worse than other things though haha. I've started talking to one of my very different minded friends during them (but we don't actually get mad at each other like most) and its been helping me keep a more level head. I've tried watching opposing spectrums of the news but I'll admit that just gets me angry haha. It would be nice if we had an extensive history of these people's backgrounds to help us see through their bullsh1t. Thanks for the convo though, I think we managed to talk politics some without pitchforks!
@Dapper Fox, I'm a bit late to the party to respond, but let me try.. For a second I want you to take the morality of abortion out of the discussion. (You think it's wrong, I don't) Think of it from a woman's perspective. I could get a girl pregnant and then do whatever I wanted. I can leave. A woman without the option of abortion would be lawfully bound to raise a $100,000+ expense that she doesn't even care about. A lot of people see it as a tool to not only oppress women, but to oppress the poor.
Now we probably can't change each other's minds about abortion being right or wrong. But hopefully from looking at it from a non-religious prespective, you can see that it affects women way more negatively than men
@Dr Rick Sanchez, I see where you are coming from, but for me religion has nothing to do with it, and religion can't be the reason for a law as not everyone believes it anyway. I may have defended the Republicans but that doesn't mean I am one (though I am generally against abortion so I'll drop that and move on).
Even with putting all morality to the side though, it just doesn't make sense to me. I know you don't want to hear it bc it's recycled too much already but biologically, sex results in a pregnancy, so you have to be careful with your body. Before you close your mind bc I just essentially said "well they need to close their legs", bear with me. We can't protect everyone from their own actions. If a woman cuts her arm, they are responsible for what they've done to their body. Similarly, if someone has sex, they are responsible for what they've done to their body. I agree that's not exactly fair between males and females, but it's just biology
@Dapper Fox, Fair enough. And I'm in no way a democrat btw ;) But cutting oneself is different from sex. People can accidentally conceive, even when using contraceptives. And biologically, sex is an unmatched driving force. It's unfortunate that one mistake can have such big consequences, but if we can alleviate those consequences, women should have the option. (I once thought my gf was pregant and I begged her to keep it - she wasn't - but I'm wealthy enough to care for it. There are a lot of people who would keep it, but for those who physically can't, the option is important.)
Can you go back to why you think it's wrong, then? I've never heard a non-religious argument for pro-life
@Dr Rick Sanchez, I know mistakes happen, and personally I think the morning after pill is perfectly acceptable. But I guess my point is that there's a point where you have to be responsible, and not ruin your life with a huge decision. That could be dropping out of school, getting pregnant, moving far away with no plan, anything really. Getting pregnant should a much bigger issue than an oopsie, but if you do have an oopsie, you are lucky there's even an option for a morning after pill. Furthermore, I actually can't completely take morality out. I really can't, and that's odd bc I'm pretty politically cold. I support legalization of marijuana bc it would be better for our jails and better for the economy. I think if someone illegally comes into the country just to have a baby, they should be punished like they did something illegal, no matter their sob story. I welcome them legally, that's how our country became great, but we definitely need reform. Sorry I meant to send this before
@Dapper Fox, about that... Only one Republican has said no abortions except in emergencies or special cases, every other candidate has said no abortions ever for any reason, not even forced intercourse or inter-family breeding (sorry never had to avoid the censor)
@Ollie Queen, Yeah they're trying to win the primaries and that's what the hardcore Republicans want (and I agree with it in principle, but special cases like that there's no way you can force that upon them when they weren't at fault). I almost think that the abortion of a rape baby should be a manslaughter added onto the rape charge. But that would 1) encourage the evil women to falsely accused rape more (talking about the worst kind of people and they're out there) and 2, it would give incentive to take the life of a rape baby just in order to get back at the rapist and make the punishment even worse. Yeah I dunno though the Republicans up there right now seem too forceful and unforgiving. Bad idea bc it will turn people away
@Dapper Fox, yeah and it is in droves, the other consequence of it is that the further right they push their campaign promises the further right the hardcore base shifts.
I mean we see what happened with Boehner, possibly one of the most Conservative voices of the past decade, now is "too far center" for the majority of Republican voters.
Slippery slope, your acceptance of overly harsh positions they don't actually support for campaigning purposes is also an indicator of the risks.
When we expect the politicians campaign platforms to be nothing more than empty promises to appeal to the base that they have no intent to keep, what point do they have in even voting anymore since we don't know who or what we are actually voting on?
@Ollie Queen, good points! I am pretty conservative and I agree with all of those criticisms. There's 2 or 3 people I really like on that side and they aren't even appealing to me in these debates. It helps me dig through the crap because I knew them and what they really believe in the past, but anyone who didn't won't really know them and like you said will most likely be pushed away.
It really comes down to our toxic party system. The way it is set up no 3rd party has a chance and the divide between Republican and Democratic just gets wider and wider (also like you said) and now we have two sides that are just plain ridiculous
@Dapper Fox, Wait what? You would stand up and defend the rights of an unwanted fetus, but you won't defend the rights of human beings who come here looking to survive?
But back to my original question, I'd really like to hear a non-religious argument for why abortion is bad.
@Dr Rick Sanchez, whoa there I feel like you are jumping to conclusions a little but something that undisturbed would become a human deserves a shot at life and my reasoning there is mostly explained above. A human being coming here looking to survive? I welcome them with open arms, but not if you come in illegally. That's not how our government works.... There are systems in place to come here legally. Do they need to be improved? That would be a hell yes, we all know that.
I touched on the abortion thing earlier, where I said it's pretty much impossible to take morality out of abortion. The argument besides stopping a life is more on the parents. A human life isn't a joke, but we treat accidental pregnancy like it's a simple mistake where it's really a life changing event, a member of your own family if you let it start to grow
@Dr Rick Sanchez, And I could flip the question onto you, you would condemn a truly defenseless fetus but defend someone doing something literally against the law? How does that sound any more logical
@Dapper Fox, Yes, because a fetus isn't a human, immigrants are. (But more accurately, no, I personally would never do that, but I am not an impoverished woman. I have no right to make that decision for them)
And I guess a follow-up question, then. You said "it's impossible to take morality out" in response to my question of taking religion out of it. (And this isn't meant to come off as dick-ish)
a) Are you saying then, that the only argument against abortion is a religious one?
b) Are you saying that religion=morality and/or that morality can't exist outside of religion?
@Dr Rick Sanchez, I have no idea how age is the difference between a human and not a human...but I guess that's that area where we can't agree. Once you have a developed thinking mind are you human or is it when you are born? (Genuine curiosity there)
I looked back and I have no idea where the association with religion and morality came from. Maybe I'm just not getting it, but really it is a morality issue and/or a responsibility issue. If you play sports you might break your leg, if you are having sex there's a chance you might get pregnant or impregnate. You've got to protect yourself(hehe kind of a pun there) The only difference is that you can dispose of one of those problems.
Religion does not equal morality, but in general I guess it tries to teach morality. And morality definitely can exist out of religion
@Dapper Fox, (Whoops I posted this hours ago as a comment, not a reply)
Ok cool. Then I guess I still don't know what argument you have against abortion - I don't mean to sound like a broken record - but what is wrong with abortion, if not religious reasons? Doctors can all agree that life does not begin at conception, that's a Christian idea. So what's wrong with it? Also, you're comparing sex to sports and cutting oneself, I really think you're underestimating it. It is the most potent chemical impulse in life. It drives nature, you can't just stop it. But think of it this way: if that were the answer, and somehow everyone was told that abstinence is the only way to prevent kids, then only the irresponsible people would have them, and we would have thousands of kids born to families who are too irresponsible to raise them. They would end up neglected or worse (this is not my main argument, just a point against the "abstinence only" people)
@Dr Rick Sanchez, the argument is that you are stopping a future human from living. At conception there are in fact just cells, but essentially you are depriving life. I'm actually not really against it at this early stage but I think it should be a pretty taboo subject and be discouraged. I guess what it comes down to is there isn't really a strong argument on any side besides thinking a fetus is a human yet or not thinking it is. To both of us that's not even a question, the answer is obvious. But that answer is apparently different. Inside and outside it's pretty much the same to me and still developing. Do you have a line where it becomes a human? I know that's a weird question and, again, if there was an easy answer we'd use it, but I'm curious what you think.
I was trying to show that pregnancy is simple a consequence of your actions and that's it really. But dating you just can't stop it... I mean does that mean rape is okay just because "I couldn't stop myself" ?
@Dr Rick Sanchez, and you also said that only irresponsible people would have kids if abstinence is the only way of prevention, first of all, what's stopping the people that want to have a kid? They are still there haha, and that's where birth control comes in. If you want to have sex, you can. But you should probably pull out, use a condom, use the pill, or the morning after pill. There's tons of steps and chances. But I didn't mean to sound like it's abstinence only, preventative measures fit into the responsibility thing too
@Dapper Fox, I'm saying sex is ok, and telling everyone in the world that unless they want kids, they cannot have sex is both impossible just to get the message out, and also ludicrous.
You said quite civilly that we have different answers - that seem obvious to us - for when life begins. To me the answer isn't obvious, but it also isn't subjective to our opinions (or the opinions of religion). It is a question answered by doctors. It is a provable scientific point of when a baby has enough of a nervous system to feel pain or even be qualified as a life form more developed than simple animals (animals that we kill). I don't mean to sound callous, but that's all there is to it.
@Dr Rick Sanchez, (sorry to bombard you) humor me here, imagine you are at work and either search something stupid or accidentally click on something and boom, porn is up on your monitored computer. (Someone I know did this with hooker furniture lol) if you x it out and call in saying whoa this was an accident, your good. But if you leave it, it becomes a problem. That's a huge grey area with abortion, arguments everywhere that will never settle. But it's kind of similar, there's no set time of how long you had it up where you get in trouble for it, the supervisor just has to make a decision on if they think you were actually looking at porn or it was an accident and you didn't even notice at first. There's no solution there, I know, but that's why some say if you even start the baby (conception) it's got rights, and some say it's not a human at all
@Dr Rick Sanchez, so does that mean that point (developed enough to feel pain) marks it a human, even while still a fetus?
@Dapper Fox, I could be convinced to use that point as the turning point. It's the only ground there is to stand on. But man oh man is it wrong to get close to there. It's going to be seriously taboo even if that was accepted by everyone. It's an argument that will never go away
@Dapper Fox, I believe that it is the scientific understanding, which is the most valid thing to base a decision on. And it makes sense too, because, for example, it is physically impossible to be cruel to an earthworm, because it cannot process pain. So (a) the fetus feels nothing, (b) it's not developed enough to be considered human, (c) a woman is saved from whatever complications she was facing, and previously unmentioned (d) medical advances from stem cells
And to your other point, contraceptives aren't perfect. I know a girl who was on the pill who just had a baby. They are advertised as 99% effective! That's a sh*tton of unwanted babies!
Finally, you're right, I was discounting wanted babies from responsible families. The point still stands, though, that there would be a lot of babies in the hands of irresponsible people
He totally would to
You can't fire Obama everyone would view that as racist
@coruptconman, the media has us all with our heads in the clouds
In more recent news: suicide attempts skyrocket in the following weeks after Donald Trump's election...
I want him to lose so we all can say to him, "You're Fired!"
What if Trump wins and goes full-blown socialism and reforms education, healthcare, and immigration?
@Split personality, hopefully he would reform those things but skip the socialism, once you go socialist, you can't go back
You can't fire Obama, because he's served his maximum number of terms and not electable again...he's "retiring."
If he does that then it shows how unqualified he truly is
Im so deep in the random section.. I wish I could go back to that time when we could say "Imagine if he wins..."
Ok cool. Then I guess I still don't know what argument you have against abortion - I don't mean to sound like a broken record - but what is wrong with abortion, if not religious reasons? Doctors can all agree that life does not begin at conception, that's a Christian idea. So what's wrong with it?
Also, you're comparing sex to sports and cutting oneself, I really think you're underestimating it. It is the most potent chemical impulse in life. It drives nature, you can't just stop it. But think of it this way: if that were the answer, and somehow everyone was told that abstinence is the only way to prevent kids, then only the irresponsible people would have them, and we would have thousands of kids born to families who are too irresponsible to raise them. They would end up neglected or worse (this is not my main argument, just a point against the "abstinence only" people)
Yep. I'm pretty close to Libertarian myself. George Washington warned us in his farewell address about political parties, but apparently we didn't heed that warning. Now we're stuck
@Dapper Fox, umm this was supposed to be a reply so ignore
Wouldn't it be "you're retired" though? #LameDuck
That would actually be hrlla dope.