At this point I’m actively avoiding watching by this show
@I Are Lebo, it's not that great. If you've ever watched any japanese horror anime it's basically that but live action. Literally quite a few have the same situation with the small differences in circumstances.
@I Are Lebo, I don't see how mass death of the impoverished is so great
@Petersquatch, I’m against any program that showcases a society depraved enough to treat real human suffering and death as entertainment.
I wasn’t really a fan of The Hunger Games, either, and at least THAT story shows the games as being depraved and something to resist.
@I Are Lebo, I think you’d have to be pretty dumb to watch squid game and think, “this is dope wish it was real”.
@I Are Lebo, me but with Star Wars
@I Are Lebo, its actually really emotional and touches on the subject of "the world isn't quite as bad as we thought". I could've cared less about a show that pokes fun about murder. This show was actually much more than that. Its heartfelt, and genuine.
@Bob Dobalina , not the point. I more mean that the setting is one I dislike. The setting being a society that has that much devalued human life.
@I Are Lebo, I normally hate horror, but I found squid game to be good. It's got some fun arcs and shows humanity at its best and worst. It's not extraordinary, but it is good.
@I Are Lebo, it's not society. It's rich people putting on a secret game with the chance for people to get out of the horror that is there lives. There lives are what a multitude of people are going through nowadays though
@KingofFunnypics, if rich people are able to use lethal games that kill poor people, that IS a societal problem.
There’s a good reason why rich people aren’t allowed to hunt humans, or run a Purge or whatever, and a society that doesn’t prohibit stuff like that is one doomed to collapse.
@I Are Lebo, right, that is an incredibly sick concept. And it is being portrayed as being preferable to the dark and terrible society we live in. A society that chips away and drives people mad, making them willing to do things they might not be willing to do normally. Like participate in death games.
@KingofFunnypics, the ‘dark and terrible’ society we live in? You mean the one with more freedom of speech and choice than any previous point in history? The society that at least attempts to provide all its citizens with equal rights and protections against blatantly malicious corporations? With anti monopoly legislature and anti trust laws?
There is a LOT wrong with modern society, but death games aren’t one of them.
@I Are Lebo, I think you missed the point. Squid Game isn’t showcasing human suffering for enjoyment. It’s actually displaying the perceived problem of the rich toying with the poor for enjoyment. The show is teaching you why it’s wrong and anticipates you for how it will tear down the evil.
The whole point is that the games are wrong. You missed that point.
Kind of like your misconception of the Bible since you’ve never actually read it. It contains stories of murder, rape, slavery, and other horrible things and comments about how such things are evil and shows how the people are punished for those things. But you think the Bible is vying for such things. You prove that you have no idea what you’re talking about when you miss the whole point of the story. Kind of like you never read it.
Just like you think Squid Game is showing the killing games as a good thing when it’s actually showing how evil it is and how the main character refuses to get corrupted like others in the story.
@I Are Lebo, and if you think that the rich aren’t toying with the poor and playing games in our real life, then you are fuсking blind. There are so many instances, but I’ll say 1. Clinton.
Literally they run a business in human trafficking and people just turn a blind eye. Interesting.
@Child Slapper, you have several misconceptions about my position.
Firstly, I haven’t actually watched Squid Game, and am actively avoiding doing so, and so I make no claims about the content or motivations because I don’t actually know and would be talking out of my ass.
Secondly, my primary objection isn’t a moralistic argument about the decay of civilization, it’s simply that I am off put by the concept of death games in general. Any publicly broadcasted entertainment medium that showcases actual suffering or death is something I am opposed to. Including bull fighting in real life.
Moving on to the second point, you’re still wrong about this assertion. A straight reading of Exodus shows a plethora of passages where slavery is depicted, explicitly and in great detail, to be a morally upstanding practice, and the ways in which it is to be practiced in order to remain in accordance with God’s laws. There is no passage in the entire Bible where owning slaves is shown to be evil, nor
is there any passage in the Bible where slave owners are shown to be punished for owning slaves.
Leviticus 25:44-46 You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.
Please tell me the passage in the Bible that clarifies that this is a bad thing, because an assertion like that requires demonstration.
As for the rich toying with the poor and playing games with their lives, I would argue that this is one of the greatest injustices of our time, and something that I think should not be made entertainment of. I’m not arguing that the show shouldn’t be allowed to exist, but if I’m off put by the thought of the rich attaining that level
of unaccountability to be able to set up people for death, that’s just my preference.
It’s very similar to The Purge, which is a franchise I absolutely hate and refuse to watch any of the movies (though I have seen full movie breakdowns and reviews and Everything Wrong With). The Purge sets up a scenario that is wholly immoral, in a society in which the ruling elite have been able to set up this scenario precisely to kill off the lower class.
I just don’t find that entertaining. In my view, a society that allows such a thing to happen in the first place is one that has already failed. I find it impossible to empathize with protagonists who are apparently so stupid and/or weak willed that they live in a place that established death games or purges without opposition.
Hunger Games is somewhat an exception, as the districts were essentially prisoners already, but the point is that the implications bother me enough that it makes watching these kinds of programs bothersome to me.
Sorry for the long reply. I’m done now.
@I Are Lebo, “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.” Ex21:16
“Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.”Col.4:1
“When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth”Ex21:26-27.
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ” Eph6:5.
Now what if I told you that what you read as the word ‘slave’ actually means indentured servant? Which means it was their choice?
“When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.” Exodus21:2
“The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine” 1Tim1:10
@Child Slapper, buying a slave from someone else is not stealing, and so that passage does not negate the entire chapter regarding how to treat slaves. This is a very common counter, and entirely self contradicting. Your very second passage shows this, as you cannot treat your slave fairly if you are to be out to death for having one.
That next passage lays out how it is okay to beat your slave if you do wish. This passage does not support your argument, it supports mine. It is immoral to use corporal punishment on a subordinate to compel behaviour. If your boss hit you for talking back to him, that would be against the law, but it would be in accordance with the Bible.
And again, telling slaves to obey their earthly masters is telling slaves not to rebel or seek their freedom. That is a PRO slavery quote, not an anti one.
Indentured servitude is immoral, and is also irrelevant. “You may pass them on to your children as a permanent inheritance” is NOT indentured servitude.
@Child Slapper, you’re arguing against yourself. You are yourself providing passages of immorality in the Bible and then attempting to use sophistry to bypass why those passages aren’t actually immoral without making any argument.
If you take ownership of another human being as if they are your property, you have behaved immorally. It is immoral to own a person in any capacity, whether you refer to them as slave or servant.
That the Bible has different rules for Hebrew versus non Hebrew slaves is even more immoral, because that’s what racial supremacy is, the belief that one group is deserving of less rights than another. Which is a common theme through the Bible, which depicts women and being lesser than men, deserving of less consideration, to be untrusted with less responsibility, and to be afforded the rights of property, not personhood.
That’s pretty immoral, too.
And for the record, Timothy 1:10 talks about enslavers. So does Ex 21:16. Neither of those apply to those who
purchase their slaves from the foreigners among them, as described in Leviticus 25:44
Telling people they can own other people as property is endorsing slavery, full stop.
@I Are Lebo, you are calling lots of things immoral here, based on your own opinion of what good and bad is. The Bible is meant to speak to everyone in all situations. If you have slaves, treat them right. Consider setting them free. If you are a slave, respect your master. Just because you are wronged, don’t do wrong yourself.
Besides, none of this is relevant. In the Old Testament Times, culture and life was completely different. It is a history that was provided to us. God sent Christ as a way to set us free from the ways of the past. That’s why I’m not Jewish.
The whole point of the Old Testament is, even when you are God’s chosen people, no matter how good or bad you have it, you will reject God, then beg him for help. We are all corrupt.
But since we are all sinners, all deserving hell, God made us another way: Christ! The only perfect human, who died in our place to pay for our eternal damnation. He was buried, and rose again, and if we believe and follow him,
@Child Slapper, we too will be buried yet rise again. To live eternal life, free of sin with God forever. But because we have been exposed to sin, and have seen suffering, we will understand what real freedom is rather than being just mindless robots obeying orders because that’s al we’ve ever known.
Your worldview affects the way you see and interpret everything. You judge the world based on your own moralistic compass. The first step is to admit your own worldview might be flawed.
But Satan’s clever. He convinced the world he’s some evil creature that can be attractive, but the truth is Satan is the being of selfishness. Putting yourself first and others last, that is Satanism. The opposite of the Bible, which has numerous examples of why you should put others ahead of yourself. It also has numerous historical passages showing how God punishes those who hurt others for their own gain. It’s pretty straightforward if you’ve read the whole thing.
@Child Slapper, complete nonsense, at multiple levels.
First and foremost, the Bible is supposed to be the Perfect Word of God. You cannot appeal to human culture when explaining why the Bible allows for such immoral things as I’ve called out, because “that’s what culture was like back then”. It’s hypocrisy. The Bible was perfectly able to call out adultery, prostitution, mixing fabrics, worshipping false idols, theft, homosexuality, and any number of other things commonplace in society. Slavery wasn’t moral in the past and changed at some point, it was always immoral. The Perfect Word would know this.
It’s absolutely relevant, if you care about whether or not your beliefs are true. If your beliefs are that the Bible is the source of morals, and then ignore or dismiss all the clearly immoral teachings, then your beliefs aren’t based on truth because you are applying your own moral code ONTO the Bible rather than obtaining it from the Bible.
Christ never said he was changing anything
from the Old Testament. “I came not to end the old ways but to fulfill them”. He also never opposed slavery, so this is what is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
This idea that everyone rejects god and then asks him for help is an assertion that needs demonstration.
The idea that we are all deserving of eternal torment is the core reason why I oppose Christianity. What kind of phenomenally evil God do you worship that creates thinking beings flawed so that He can then torture them eternally for it? It’s ludicrous.
Everyone’s worldview affects the way they see and interpret the world. EVERYONE judges the world based on their own moralistic compass. You are no exception to this, as evidenced by the way you cherry pick from the Bible and handwave away any passages that conflict with your own internal morality.
You do not understand what Satanism is, though it’s also not relevant to the discussion at hand. The idea that Satan is responsible for every sin while God is responsible for
every virtue is not only idiotic, it’s unbiblical. By taking this stance, you elevate the concept of Satan from an underling of God who defies Him while still unknowingly being used to serve God’s Plans, to being a competitor for God on equal standing, power wise. The idea only stands up as long as you don’t examine it. Is Satan omnipotent? Is Satan all knowing and omnipresent? He’d have to be in order to be responsible for all individual selfishness.
I really don’t like having these kinds of discussions with you, because it’s like talking to a brick wall. You assert ridiculous things and you never actually address any of the counter points. It’s an exercise in frustration, because it’s so clear that you are not actually listening to anything you disagree with.
And for the record, the Bible is not a historical document. Asserting about historical passages showing God’s punishment tells me you don’t understand anything about historicity or how we evaluate the accuracy of history.
@I Are Lebo, to your first and second points, there are many lists of things labelled ‘good’ in the Bible. Slavery is never mentioned once. But it is on several lists of bad things. So, not a contradiction. God created the Word through people, so it takes culture into account of that time. Be aware, the culture in the Bible changes constantly through thousands of years.
There wasn’t a change; but there were different rules given to Jews and Gentiles as explained by Paul. I am not a Jew. Therefore the laws of old don’t and never applied to me. The Old Testament is valuable, but is history.
The books of Old Testament are a history literally depicting the Israelites constantly turning away, going into turmoil or slavery, then begging for his help. With literal prophets declaring that their misfortune is due to their sins.
I’m sorry that your morality doesn’t like punishing those who do wrong. But God must punish evil. That is what is good. But he made a way out for his children.
God must put sin away from him, therefore, sinners are punished, but those who choose Christ he shows mercy to. And choosing Christ is just believing and truly deciding to turn from a self-serving life to honor and serve the Lord.
I’m not cherry picking. That’s what you are doing. Picking out certain verses and ignoring others. I am using all of it in context. You don’t understand the difference between what is labelled as history, poetry, wisdom, prophecy, revelation, and laws. You cherry pick while I have studied the entire passage.
My internal morality is evil and corrupt and I have done many wrong things. But I choose to align myself with Christ’s commands as best as I can. Not because I earn any favor, but because I’m grateful an all-powerful God who can dispose of me would choose to adopt me and love me.
I never said Satan was responsible for every sin, so that paragraph is invalid.
He introduced and perpetuates sin and will be the example prisoner of hell. The most punished.
@I Are Lebo, the opposite of honoring God is being Selfish. And if you read the book Satanists use, it’s literally a book that contradicts biblical tenets and tells you to be selfish. It’s funny actually. Most people who think they are so moral make great Satanists.
I’m sorry that I feel like a brick wall to you. I’m genuinely just trying to help. I actually do my best to address the counter points, but you don’t like my answers. Additionally, every response of yours gets longer, and eventually I run out of time and forget to reply. I’ve asked in the past if we could text or chat some other way, but you said no. Sorry.
You think I assert ridiculous things, but they are Biblically founded, and you can find millions of people that would agree. I mean, I went to a Christian college. My wife agrees. And the college had many different kinds of Christians and we had debate there.
“You never address counter points” that’s just dishonest. And I’m listening. I really am. You just dislike
@I Are Lebo, my response and the fact that I have studied and can refute some responses.
The Bible takes place over thousands of years. If you don’t know that it is historical, then you’re certainly confused. Especially since there’s tons of other histories that line up perfectly with many biblical stories.
Lastly, just because you don’t like something, doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Sorry you feel that you are the best judge of what is right or wrong.
I was raised to believe men and women were perfectly equal. When I read that men are in charge in the church, I was confused and bothered, but I had to study it and eventually came to accept it. I’ve grown and changed through the years. I’m the opposite of a brick wall. But you believe that if I don’t align with your truth, then I’m obviously just not listening. I’m sorry we have different backgrounds, experiences, and levels of knowledge about the Bible.
@Child Slapper, slavery is listed among the laws as a permissible action. Your argument is invalid. Especially as your counter was that it’s not a contradiction when I never argued that it was. It’s only a contradiction because YOU think the Bible doesn’t endorse slavery. There’s no contradiction. You’re just wrong.
@I Are Lebo, you’ve failed to list slavery as a permissible action. Just instructions for how slaves should be treated and treat their masters.
While I’ve listed the verse saying that anyone who kidnaps another and sells him shall be put to death. And also listed where slave-traders are listed among other evil attributes.
Slavery was not tied to skin color, but to economic status in those times.
But you can’t accept that the Bible says even if you are a slave, respect your masters because you are having trouble conceptualizing cultural norms. You can’t see past your own lens. Also wartime practices are interesting. Taking conquered country’s citizens as slaves is far more humane than outright killing them. If they work hard, slaves even get elevated to society.
I’m not saying I agree or like it, but I can understand that the concept existed and understand a moral compass that must exist within those restraints
There is slavery today. Sexual and literal. What will you do about it?
@Child Slapper, kidnapping = / = legally purchasing a slave. Your counter was as invalid as the rest of your argument.
I’m sorry, but I’m just done having theological arguments with you. This is just aggravating and frustrating for me. Your approach is dishonest, your arguments are often self contradicting, and your faith is so zealous that you cannot (or will not) take this discussion on honestly, and I’m not buying in anymore.
Every time we have a discussion on this topic, one of two things happen. Either you move the goalposts in a dishonest attempt to shift the focus of the discussion to keep me off point, or I make an argument you don’t have a counter to, and you vanish and stop responding.
At this point, I’m happy to have any number of discussions or conversations with you on any topic but the Bible or the Christin viewpoint, because you are incapable of engaging honestly, and I am incapable of engaging without it affecting my temper and mood in ways I really don’t like.
@I Are Lebo, If I disappear, it’s an accident, or I lost the thread. I have ADHD, sorry. Sometimes I write my response on a notepad and then discover it a month later. Whoops!
That’s an immature way to go about it. Nonstop character attacks because you don’t like my responses. You claim that I’m a zealot because I believe something you don’t, and you’re bitter that you can’t control my brain and make me say what you want. That’s dishonest.
I’m a combination of off-put and amused that you would call me dishonest just because I’m different from you and don’t think like you.
That makes you closed-minded. You are a Secular Humanist Zealot that is so passionate, you can’t see your own flaws and have so much hate towards a group of people that are actually really nice and help/love more people than you ever could or would.
“They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.” - Ephesians 4:18
@Child Slapper, it’s not about it being a character attack, it’s about criticizing behaviour. I’m not calling you a Zealot or dishonest because I disagree with you, I’m calling you dishonest because you frequently engage in dishonest debate tactics. Such as moving the goalposts, switching the topic, or ignoring counterpoints.
You have done this repeatedly, multiple times in just this thread.
Me: Here’s a passage from a chapter of the Bible referencing God’s laws in which it explicitly lays out rules for slavery, slavery being defined as ‘owning another human being as property’, where the text uses phrases such as “You may” when describing the practice. This demonstrates that the Bible endorses slavery.
You: Here’s a passage from another part of the Bible, taken without any context at all, where it forbids kidnapping people.
Me: That’s irrelevant, because legally purchasing slaves is not kidnapping.
You: I already proved you wrong by posting that line about kidnapping.
@Child Slapper, this entire thread started with your assertion that I am incorrect when I refer to immoral passages in the Bible, with further assertions that the Bible condemns such immorality. I have demonstrated the immortality, and all of your responses thus far have either been diversions or dismissals, without your core assertions being demonstrated at all. THAT is what I’m calling out as dishonest. You aren’t right because you assert you are, you need to show it (at least, you do if you care about reason or being taken seriously).
Taking out of context quotes unrelated to the topic and acting as if it contradicts other aspects of the Bible is dishonest. One line about kidnapping doesn’t remove all the parts in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Exodus that deal with explicit condoning of slavery.
@I Are Lebo, what I’m trying to say that you are not understanding is your view of slavery is wrong. The way it was done in the past was different from the way it’s done today. Again. I told you it was economy based. Whereas you won’t accept that. You say slaves are immoral all the time. I’m saying the Bible condemns enslavers, and kidnappers of men. Then it gives rules to slaves and slave owners. It may not directly condemn slavery. I never said it did. What I’m saying is your view of slavery is wrong because it’s based on modern day slavery, which is terrible. Ancient slavery had more to do with debts and family wrongs back in the past. I’m not saying it was right, but society was that way in the past. I also addressed the war criminals becoming slaves rather than outright dying. I don’t see how this is moving the goalpost when the entire point is you think the Bible is evil for not completely removing slavery from society. Well, how mad do you think the Jews were when Jesus arrived?
@I Are Lebo, they thought Jesus the king would slay the Romans who owned them and free them from oppression and captivity. He’s like “nope I’m freeing your souls, not literally freeing you”
To me that directly mirrors your point about slavery.
He didn’t come to save our physical lives, but our eternal souls.
He even says being a Christian is harder than choosing to stay in the world:
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” - Matthew 7:13-14
@Child Slapper, you’re flat out wrong, on every level. It has nothing whatsoever to do with modern definitions. That’s why I even defined what I’m referring to by slavery. The practice of owning another human being as property is slavery. The Bible explicitly condones this practice, making it a regulated practice with various rules as to how you are to go about doing it.
That would be no different than saying “you may rape the foreigners among you, taking their virginal daughters for yourself, but you must not punch out their eye or knock out their tooth while raping them or else you will be punished”. That’s not an anti rape position.
You are demonstrably wrong and I have already demonstrated how and why you are wrong.
The practice of owning another human being as property is and always was immoral. The practice of passing on enslaved humans to your children as a permanent inheritance is immoral and always was. Both of these practices are endorsed by your holy book.
@Child Slapper, playing word games and pretending like slavery isn’t slavery because you call it indentured servitude doesn’t change the reality. Besides, it’s not indentured servitude if there’s no end to it (permanent inheritance).
Leviticus, Exodus, and Deuteronomy all explicitly allow the owning of other humans as property.
Not me. I would be dead for sure.