The government’s controlled by the corporations and together, they control every facet of our lives to bend us to their twisted wills. The only solution is to expand the scope and power of the government! - My fvcking generation
@A Deformed Penis, you had me in the first half
@A Deformed Penis, "We also think they should be the only ones with guns!"
@A Deformed Penis, I mean. No? How to people assume this is what democratic socialism means after having it explained 1000 times to them
@A Deformed Penis, ah so you're one of those self hating millennials I take it? Also your dick looks weird please put it away.
@A Deformed Penis, I mean agree, but, alternative proposal, just take power away from the corporations instead
@A Deformed Penis, I say we raze it and start again
@danciestlobster, that’s the same thing
Maybe stop criticizing and start working towards a solution
@spadaccini1993, I don't think you can really address and fix problems without pointing out that they exist
@bonja, people have been pointing this stuff out for as long as I have been alive if that's not a long enough time to make people aware there will never be enough time to make people aware, so enough with awareness campaigns about this stuff start making moves or admit you're never going to do anything and you just want to moan forever
@bonja, I think that's called a shadow government
@spadaccini1993, Hey. So I totally agree. (I’ve got my own opinions) but what do you propose?
@MrTuxPenguin, oh I don't think we have to do anything, America is functioning perfectly fine and anybody who thinks that they are being manipulated or forced into any position I believe has put themself there and refuses to leave out of stubbornness, you can always make a change you can always do better tomorrow, but people on the whole have become lazy and refuse to actually act or change and so they have to find an excuse as to why their life isn't getting any better
@spadaccini1993, You don’t think we can improve in any way?
@MrTuxPenguin, that's different, though we can improve in a couple of aspects I feel
@spadaccini1993, Talk to me. Like what? I’m all... eyes, because I’m reading I guess.
@MrTuxPenguin, well taking away some of the regulation that we currently have in our market would definitely help everything, removal of the minimum wage would be good as well
@spadaccini1993, Yea? How so?
@MrTuxPenguin, well some of the regulation that we have has stopped efficiency from increasing in these locations just like the Paris accords were actually causing America to produce more CO2 and when we left them our CO2 production went down further than it would have had we stayed because of the restrictions, removing the minimum wage would help all workers because no longer can companies make the claim oh well we only need to pay you this much for you to survive that's what the government says that you need to survive so we don't have to pay more than that
@spadaccini1993, the removal of minimum wage would also help fight against inflation
@spadaccini1993, I didn’t hear about the CO2 thing. You have an article or something? I’m curious.
But what’s stopping companies from paying people below what they need to survive and just Pocketing the money for themselves?
Taxes also help with inflation.
@spadaccini1993, progressives tried with bernie and the right tried with Trump. Safe to say after 4 years of monumental spending and a cabinet packed with ceos, the rights plan didn't work
@spadaccini1993, you think people going bankrupt from medical costs is perfectly fine? Or having the highest percentage of incarcerated citizens per capita is perfectly fine?
People like you stick your heads in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong while the land burns around you. America is pretty dang far from ‘perfectly fine’.
@spadaccini1993, In my experience, quite a few people who are actively trying to make change are also the ones speaking out against this sort of stuff, only to be dismissed. Granted, slacktivists are fairly prevalent too.
@spadaccini1993, no matter what’s going on in the world, there are really only two things I can do about it.
And get up & go to work.
@MrTuxPenguin, "taxes help with inflation"
The stupidity boggles the mind.
@hollow1104, yeah dismiss the $5000 average income increase, as well as the record low unemployment, as well as the return of industries the previous president said you would need a magic wand to do
@spadaccini1993, where in the Sam Hill are you getting the idea that the average American income has increased by $5,000?!
You’re just wholesale making shït up now.
@I Are Lebo, do you think less people becoming doctors, a longer wait time, less new drugs and procedures, and selective treatment due to a lack of doctors so people die waiting is preferable? Because universal or socialist healthcare leads to that.
As for crime, it's been steadily going down for years, but I'm sure you knew that, and of course we can't claim the culture people have created might have the majority of effect on it, and of course NONE of those people have any free will, they had no power to decide not to commit crime, oh and I'm sure the left constantly telling people with less money they have no chance to get ahead caused any issues that didn't sway anyone.
@I Are Lebo, https://www.atr.org/thanks-trump-median-household-income-highest-level-ever?amp
@spadaccini1993, I didn't ignore it. I said "monumental spending" you might of missed it. But the inflation Biden now has to fix is because Trump used debt to bubble all that into existence. But I'm sure you'll just shout that I'm a liberal and bunker down.
@MrTuxPenguin, the people are stopping them from doing that, with the ability to better negotiate wage going elsewhere is a much more viable option, so if you pay like garbage you lose workers, this supports the small businesses as they can afford a higher wage since they have a smaller amount of employees.
As for the CO2 thing it became unidentifiable after covid since the emissions dropped severely since people stayed in and I can't seem to find the projections from that time, you don't have to believe me I understand I made a claim I can't back up, but there is definitely red tape that causes lack of efficiency, that pretty much the purpose of bureaucracy
@hollow1104, no but put simply you have to spend money to make money, yes we went further into debt but that was with the idea, that more of the country would be able to produce and therefore more money would be made and more money would be spent and more taxes would be produced in the middle of all of that allowing the govt. to have a better chance to recover
@spadaccini1993, that's fine if we're actually in a recession. We weren't. It was an obsession with beating Obama. Now that we're actually in trouble the gov has no tools to fix it. Speaking objectively.
@hollow1104, I've heard that argument and I'm not saying there isn't some validity to it, I just can't blame anyone for not being able to predict the virus
@spadaccini1993, I would agree with you about people going to smaller business for better wages, Except that they don’t. The businesses pay minimum wage as well because they can’t compete with larger corporations selling their items for cheaper. Breaking up the monopoly would make your statement true, but to break up a monopoly you need government intervention and “that’s communism!!! 😳🤭🤢😧🪰” So says the right.
@MrTuxPenguin, you wouldn't need to do anything, the worker will do it all, they will have an easier time negotiating their wages, small businesses will be able to pay more, bigger businesses won't be able to match because of the overhead, they will lose workers and most locations will have to shut down
@spadaccini1993, How would you start that? Workers migrating to smaller businesses?
@MrTuxPenguin, there is no policy nor regulation that is going to cause it to happen, it is something that is going to happen naturally over time as people would prefer to make more money at the same job for the same amount of work, smaller businesses will bloom, allowing them to hire more people, and people who are being underpaid at bigger businesses will leave, of course there are some number of people that won't leave the bigger businesses but I do not believe that to be the majority
@MrTuxPenguin, yes the smaller businesses will end up becoming larger, but it will end up with corporations actually having to compete rather than having the Monopoly they currently have, where a Walmart moves into town and half the businesses shut down
@spongeblade, So, prices raise if minimum wage goes up Yea? (Yea duh, Econ 101 loser. People have more money to spend!) I hear you say.
So prices would go down if they get taxed meaning they don’t have the money right?
@spadaccini1993, But we’re seeing the opposite happening right now. Small business being shut down and big ones only getting bigger. Over the past decade or so.
@MrTuxPenguin, yes, and we still have minimum wage laws, the change that I am saying will happen cannot happen until those are gone, oh and in response to you saying that taxes fight inflation, all you would have to do is look at the history of taxes, minimum wage, and inflation.
That second link actually adjusts minimum wage for inflation and shows the actual value in comparison
@spadaccini1993, You gave me links 🥺. I think I love you.
So are you agreeing with me on the taxes thing? Because that second article only lists good things about raising the minimum wage.
Because funny enough, from the first article you sent me, high taxes matched up perfectly with this one I found on when we were the most prosperous.
But what if small business don’t pay more? Nothing says that they have to.
We would become a nation of sweatshop workers without it. If a lower minimum wage would let sm owners sell their items for less to compete with corporations, then there’s nothing stopping corporations from continuing to pay the current wage and driving sm owners out of business and then lowering the wage.
May I suggest the opposite?
@spadaccini1993, For a note in depth look at what I’m talking about, I recommend this guy: Rutger Bregman
@MrTuxPenguin, don't try that that's the weakest argument tactic to just say "oh well I guess you agree with me haha" no in order for us to be able to get real value out of minimum wage we would have to raise it to such an astronomical amount that the inflation rate would go insane, and yes that is true of the links I sent you but I feel like something else happened as well, oh yeah we just finished going through two world wars, and war costs a lot of money but it is also extremely profitable, there are more example of times when it shows the exact opposite, let's take modern examples why don't we, let's look at other countries that have absurd taxes, Sweden, I believe Norway, pretty much any country with universal health Care, taxes have gone up but inflation is still going up it's weird isn't it
@spadaccini1993, The inflation rate in Norway in 2019 was 2.3%.
In the US in 2019 2.17%.
Inflation happens when an economy is doing well. (Too much too fast it’s bad).
But Norway‘s minimum wage pays for people to live. Ours doesn’t.
Agent we all on the same team? Make money and do well.
@spadaccini1993, fun fact: Norway doesn’t have a minimum wage! 🌈
If you wanna be more like Norway in all for it.
@MrTuxPenguin, ohhhh you got me, but we weren't talking about minimum wage were we, we were talking about the comparison of taxes to inflation, don't try and spin it because at this point you're just deflecting every argument I make
@spadaccini1993, I thought we were talking about both as separate things.
So since I got confused let me restate my point about the correlation between taxes, inflation, minion wage.
So small inflation is a sign of a prospering economy. More money is being circulated and (usually) the minimum wage goes up as a result. People have more money to spend. But the thing stopping inflation from bubbling is taxes because as people have more money, taxes take money out of the economy. (Sounds like a bad thing but actually is good).
So when the economy is doing well and taxes get cut we end up with rapid inflation and cause a bubble (similar to the housing bubble of 08 but everywhere). In 09 we also saw the end of steady increase of minimum wage (a sign of a not so good economy). That’s also why we saw a drop in GDP in in 01. Taxes were high from the Clinton admission, economy was doing well, then Bush cut taxes and we inflated, then deflated.
@spadaccini1993, If it was simple... haha.
Let’s see if I can’t summarize that up a bit.
A steady increase of inflation and minimum wage is a good sign, but that’s only if taxes are in place to keep it from getting out of control.
@MrTuxPenguin, the simple fact of the matter is I have been arguing from the beginning that taxes have nothing to do with inflation, correlation does not mean causation, taxes are at the whim of the government, and I would much rather have more money in my pocket than less, look at countries where the tax rate is absurd, sure people have a decent standard of living over there, America has a better one and we have money in our pockets, where whilst these other countries might have a lot of value they have no real liquid wealth
@MrTuxPenguin, there are plenty of stories that you can just look up, the most popular example would probably be PewDiePie from YouTube, he lived in Sweden, he wanted to buy a $2,000 computer, he had next to no overhead because of the way the country works, it took him nearly 6 months of work to save up just $2,000
@spadaccini1993, So the three model I mentioned is only that. A 3 model example when in reality there’s tons of other factors to consider. Taxes help maintain inflation but it’s not as simple as more taxes=less inflation.
So I don’t know PewDiePie’s living expenses or what’s going on there.
Sure the Europeans may not the highest numbers in their account but if they get injured, over there they’re covered. Over here you lose all of that money. And that’s if you can build wealth here. In most cases you can’t because the minimum wage is below poverty. You can’t build wealth if you’re just barely scrapping by.
I’d love a few more dollars in my pocket too. That’s why I’m for raising the minimum (slowly over time).
Because according to the second link you sent me...
@spadaccini1993, Gradually raising the federal minimum wage to $15 by 2025 would lift pay for nearly 32 million workers—21% of the U.S. workforce.
Affected workers who work year-round would earn an extra $3,300 a year—enough to make a tremendous difference in the life of a supermarket clerk, home health aide, or fast-food worker who today struggles to get by on less than $25,000 a year.
And others. But if we raid minimum wage that means we need to raise taxes to help combat inflation. What should we spend it on? (Healthcare) or the social programs of your choice.
@MrTuxPenguin, sure but if you look at my argument with the other individual you don't need to raise minimum wage in order to gain more money, Trump put roughly $5,000 more per year in 3 years into every American's pocket, and that's before the $2,000 tax cut so realistically he put $7,000 more a year into everyone's pocket, so it is perfectly feasible to get a higher pay rate without requiring minimum wage to go up, which when minimum wage goes up I know you made this argument with someone else but everything does get more expensive so it ends up with a net neutral experience, yes we need to pay for things with taxes absolutely but I do not trust our government to pay for things our government has a spending problem, I would rather privatize everything, the companies that do a good job will get paid the companies that do a poor job might get paid once maybe twice but will ultimately be left to the wayside, and then the companies that have done a good job they will do their best to....
@MrTuxPenguin, continue the quality so they keep getting work whilst lowering costs so they can profit more
@spadaccini1993, So fun fact: ‘rich’ people aren’t liquid. (I forgot to bring this up earlier). If you ask Trump or anyone rich guy like him for $100 they can’t give it to you because they literally don’t have the money. It’s all tied up in assets. Earning interest. 🌈
@spadaccini1993, So yes trump did cut taxes and people got more money in their pocket. But it came at the price of healthcare.
So I’m sure you heard that trump was going to raise taxes afterwards to pay for it. This article talks about that.
But pretty much is that before you would get a tax credit for having healthcare (which was mandatory under the affordable cares act). But trump repealed that so now instead of getting money to help pay for your mandatory healthcare, you’re paying for it out of pocket. Sure some of it can come from the money Trump gave you, but if you’re earning minimum wage, you’re using it to buy food and rent. (Remember minimum wage is below poverty). Thus, you’ll end up paying more for healthcare over the next few years (till 2027). That’s how he’s paying for the tax cuts.
@spadaccini1993, Or you could not buy coverage and take your chances. Ambulances are only a couple thousand for a ride I believe.
@MrTuxPenguin, ah yes mandatory healthcare, you know those poor you brought up? They couldn't afford it, I know I couldn't, so every year I had a tax penalty that increased at an insane rate 1st was $300 then $600 then $1000 then $1600, if these poor individuals couldn't afford the bare minimum under Obama care how will they afford the penalty? Of course trump removed the penalty and people could live again, if you want to talk about astronomical healthcare prices I point you in the direction of the rest of the world, these companies make money through the things they make but they can't turn profit from countries with universal healthcare so America foots the bill for the rest of the world as usual, also the care offered by Obama care was awful and it drove the price of private insurance through the roof, and who said anything about rich people? I'm not talking about the top 10% I'm talking about the average, and the average citizen has more liquid wealth in America than all these...
@MrTuxPenguin, other countries
@spadaccini1993, Side track real quick: you mentioned how government should be privatized. The gas crisis happening on the east coast and the time Texas was out of power are examples of what happens when the government isn’t involved.
As for government spending, vanilla Rangers comment a couple comments down is correct.
Back on track- I’m guessing this happened before 2016. I’m sorry to hear. There should be a basic healthcare plan that you’re eligible for. I don’t know what the retirements are in your state (each state has a different version). In AZ it’s called AHCCS. And in AZ, if you were on AHCCS you got a tax credit for it. (Same for WA actually). Trump’s new bill is doing away with that.
@MrTuxPenguin, the gas crisis caused by the govt shutdown of the pipe you mean?, And Texas you mean the one where the govt shutdown and didn't allow people on the roads to be able to make the repairs and that private citizens solved by purchasing generators and heating alternatives?
And I'm glad you didn't have to face the fee's but I did and let me tell you as someone surviving paycheck to paycheck because I couldn't negotiate my wage I didn't appreciate my president telling my how I HAD to spend my extremely limited income, I feel no sympathy for you losing a small tax credit when I had to pay a total of $3500 because I couldn't afford my bills and the healthcare
@spadaccini1993, No I’m talking about the prone living paycheck to paycheck who has to spend to spend their hard earned money to buy generators because Texas didn’t build their infrastructure to code (save money).
Where did you hear about the gov not letting people fix it?
But I’m sorry to hear about your insurance stuff. It can be a hassle for sure. If only there was some way to make it easier so that people like you and me didn’t have to worry about health insurance. I wish we could make the government pay for it. Or a way to make companies pay us what we deserve...😶
Did you check out the free health insurance for poorer citizens? I thought every state had something.
@MrTuxPenguin, don't go down the universal healthcare route, it is objectively worse, costs more on average, no choice in doctor, wait times, people die in wait times, less people become doctors, and significantly increased taxes for worse than current quality of care in America's case,
And Texas... I mean you've lost either I'm right and the govt didn't let repairmen fix the issue sooner or you're right and the govt cheaped out on infrastructure, either way the govt caused the issue and private citizens had to solve it
@MrTuxPenguin, also if you want to talk infrastructure, privatized road systems are the best maintained, the only road systems well maintained by the govt have tolls, so not only do they tax us to maintain them and do a bad job, in order to do an ok job they have to tax us again
@spadaccini1993, Medicaid! That’s what I’m looking for. Couldn’t remember it. I thought each state had some version of it. I would check it out if I were you.
On the infrastructure thing, Texas is all privatized. They don’t let the government do anything. Thus why it wasn’t built to code, Because companies cheap out.
Per much all roads are paid for by gov. I don’t know where you live, but freeways, highways, interstates, all gov all free. It’s usually the private ones that charge you (because they need to make their money back).
@MrTuxPenguin, Medicaid is only available to individuals who are incapable of working, I do not qualify,
I will give you the texas infrastructure is privatized, that was something I was unaware of, but doing some research they are still overseen by the state government, and evidently telephone poles and lines are actually not run or controlled by any state, they are in fact controlled by the electric companies, so we can both admit that we were wrong and move on,
I'm in the Northeast, I am beholden to so many tolls on government run highways, I did some research before I made that comment, the privatized roads that have existed when they were being constructed were private, after construction finished and the company made their money back and a little profit the maintenance was handed over to the government, the government decided to continue to toll people, so not only did they not have to pay a cent in construction, but they got extra tax money through the tolls, and they still...
@MrTuxPenguin, ... Can't maintain them well
@spadaccini1993, where are you getting figures saying UHC costs more.
If youhave arguements against, sure go for it, but thats just straight up wrong. You can break it down to and essentially create false stats but if you look at health care costs on the whole countries with universal health care pay far less. In 2018 around 16.9% of gdp of the US was spent on healthcare. In countries with UHC (examples using different types of UHC): UK - 9.8%, Germany -11.2%, France- 11%, Canada - 10.6%. on the topic of wait times ngl its true under UHC statstically your more likely to wait longer, however UHC provides a better overall care for the nation. E.g infant mortality rate in 2017: US-5.7 UK- 3.7 Germany-3.1 France-3.5.
With the IMR there are also other factors at play but my point of using one example is to show how you can paint UH as better off one statistic just as private gets painted as better off things like wait times.
Tldr: UHC costs less, debatable if overall better though
@bonja, all I have to say to you because I thought I was done with this argument, because I'm tired of pointing out statistics I'm tired of pointing out all the flaws in the system with wait times, and people dying whilst in those wait times, it's very simple, if you look at the top 100 hospitals in the world America I believe has 22 of them, the most of any country on the list, including squarely spots number 1, 2, and 3,
We also host the best medical schools in the world, in a list of the top 10 we actually take up seven places again taking spots 1, 2, and 3,
If you want to talk to people from other countries that need intensive care or specialized Care why don't you ask them where they go? That's right, America, it might have something to do with us developing the most medical innovations every year that are actually approved for use,
America's medical system as far as quality is concerned is number one, the problem is when you look up the best medical systems in the world they...
@bonja, include accessibility, which is fair not every single member of the American society has access to the entirety of the medical system, but let's not forget the fact that it doesn't matter how much money you have in America you're going to get the treatment that you need, and then of course there's this little known fact that in America if you are paying off a bill in good faith specifically a medical bill for 7 years the government will forgive the debt,
And yeah we spend more money than every other country on medicine and on treatments, but that's the cost of being number 1, you want the best you're going to pay for the best, don't expect to get a Lamborghini for $10,000
@spadaccini1993, So I couldn’t find much info on why there are so many tolls in the NE (I’m from SW) but I did find this: Toll highways designated as interstates can continue collecting tolls, but were generally ineligible to receive federal highway funds for maintenance and improvements. These “grandfathered” highways were also not required to correspond to interstate highway standards. Many of those “grandfathered” highways are in the North East such as...
So there’s a toll because the government can’t do anything about them (maintenance wise).
As for healthcare, I see bonja is helping me out there. I’m just gonna say I don’t know what your state’s laws on healthcare are. In AZ (really red) you can work and still get Medicaid. You just can’t be earning a lot. (It’s really messed with tax brackets and all but...)
@MrTuxPenguin, all you've said in the first statement is that instead of a federal government failure it's a state government failure, I don't see what difference that makes
And the second one there is no state requirements for Medicare or Medicaid it is a federal program you can't make above $30,000 a year, do you want to know who makes $30,000 or more a year as a single payer, pretty much anyone who is not working one of the starting positions in jobs, but it doesn't particularly matter because most positions also offer healthcare that will be cheaper than Medicaid, I know my friend who is on Medicare and or Medicaid has to pay $600 a month
@MrTuxPenguin, oh I also forgot to mention to receive Medicaid or medicare you also have to meet medical requirements, as in you have to be sick already in order to apply and be accepted into Medicare or Medicaid
@spadaccini1993, So yes it’s a failure on state government. That’s why we (me included) need to be more involved in who were voting for. And demand more from our elected officials.
We shouldn’t have to join a party. We should vote individually for people who address our concerns and match our beliefs.
@MrTuxPenguin, this comment makes me feel like you've never voted before, your party does not matter the second you step into that voting booth, the only thing that your party dictates is whether or not you can vote in specific caucuses or primaries but that is dependent on the state you live in
@spadaccini1993, I vote. What I’m speaking out against is people who only vote Party lines.
I also want you to be able to drive on nice roads and have affordable healthcare. The only way you get those things without paying for them is government. Anything private is out to make money and thus will charge you for it.
@MrTuxPenguin, okay so you've clearly run out of steam so I'm making closing arguments,
you know where I got affordable healthcare? Through my job, through a private company, you know when my insurance went up? When ObamaCare created a minimum because that took away the competition that insurance companies were in, and the price of all insurance went up not down.
You know who did take care of the roads properly? The private citizen who originally built them, then a state government took over.
If I give you the option of sending your child to a public school or private school where are you going to send them? If I give you the option of being sent to a private or public hospital where are you going to choose? If you're mailing something do you trust it's going to get there more with the USPS or fedex? If I give you the option to choose anything between a public or private choice which will you choose? You can virtue signal all you want but you know the private option will....
@MrTuxPenguin, most likely be better.
@spadaccini1993, You’re totally correct. I’m running out of steam. (Home problems).
Closing argument: I can’t afford private anything. No one can. That’s the problem. So we need a better public option. (Also I do trust USPS I feel like I’m the only one).
Everyone is all like “the government is controlled by corporations!” But I’m pretty sure it’s controlled by my cat. Anytime I mention the government she starts to look real suspicious.
@Man with a Cat, Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't she look suspicious all the time?
@satan of the north, yeah but when I mention the government she looks even more suspicious
@Man with a Cat, for real. It’s the opposite. The government that tries to control people hates corporations and that’s why they brainwash their base to hate good business.
On the bright side, we do have the freedom to endlessly trash our government and everything about it and that in itself is a beautiful thing not everyone appreciates
Wait youre telling me both parties that only play tug of war are doing nothing?
Oh yeah, and while were already mad, the NRA is just about as bad as the ATF.
@Guy Fawkes, except the right tries to do stuff and gets denied. And the left pretends to do stuff to rule their base, then breaks the law and does really bad stuff.
We're not in crippling debt... at all. Our debt is actually extremely manageable relative to nations with far less debt, despite the facts being heavily inflated by the media. With our debt being a little under 110% of our GDP, a lot of people who know very little about economy or national lending make claims that lenders will be pulling out or that the US is on the verge of an economic crisis due to debt (we totally could be, it just has nothing to do with our debt). Our debt is manageable for the same reason Japan's 200+% debt is manageable: the strength of our institutions. Our lenders have no reason to believe that the US will be defaulting or begging for a buy-out due to the relationship between our government and our private institutions. Multiple economists (both foreign and local) have clarified this on several occasions, but the media doesn't share this because it doesn't start a mass panic.
Hopefully thing will get better when the boomers die out or retire, anyway, gotta go vote if you want change. Not only for president, gotta vote for congress and all the stuff in your state too. People seem to think voting for the president is the only whatvthat matters.
Bull. All the other countries are in worse shape. The political left is just trying to apply foreign practices to America and that’s why we’re going downhill.
Dang America has problems? That’s really clever of you to point oht, I never thought of that before.
Moral of the post: please keep your masks on