I saw a comment online asking how many guns should a person own and most said 4-5 a shot gun a rifle and a couple of diffrent pistols.
My response was how many does the military own?
@NameyMcNameFace, they probably own more guns than bullets
@InsaneAnimeCleavage, I’m kinda reflecting on that and.... would they? Kinda like this PPE thing going on. You don’t need the largest stockpile when you can alway order more. (Well you don’t need it until you do)
This is not meant to be any kind of political so please don’t make it. I mean it as a discussion between hobbyists.
@NameyMcNameFace, I won’t get into the “should” argument. You do you mate. But I was intrigued by the perspective that pistols are really only for hunting people (originally). As a collector of weapons myself (the arms Blanche as the French would refer to swords, axes, and other non-firearms) I have begun shifting my collection toward spears and axes and away from swords. The craftsmanship is still exquisite but I find myself slightly turned off by an object that is only really effective against people. Don’t get me wrong, I still fence and have swords, it’s just a new perspective I’ve taken that directs my future collection. Were I to take up firearms I think I’d lean toward rifles and shotguns. Fun ones like an M-1 or AR-15 (mostly cause the term assault rifle is poorly designed and I’d ruffle feathers) But still. I find myself less interested in the human only stuff). Thoughts from people who actually know guns?
This is not supposed to be political. I hoped for hobby talk.
I get that. I grew up around guns. Not uncommon to go through the house and find a shot gun leaning in the coroner like a broom.
My dad has enough guns for a small military, with the accessories.
Pistols are for self defense but some can be used for hunting small game. Hunting rabbits with a pistol is one of my best memories I have with my dad.
The “should”was completely political, saying we shouldn’t limit the number firearms someone own.
@NameyMcNameFace, that’s actually really neat and makes me feel better about pistols. Didn’t know people hunted with them.
Like I said, I still fence so despite my now mixed feelings toward swords, a sport has grown around it. Obviously the same can be said for pistols. I’m just glad that there is a utility beyond pvp (defense or otherwise).
As a collector I find beauty in utility. Not that I wish to use my collection but I marvel at the craftsmanship, at the devotion to mastering their use. The creative ways in which they were used. I am amazed at the history that was built.
@NameyMcNameFace, every existing military firearm in the world vs just what is in US civilian circulation? It's between 3 and 5 to 1 depending on estimates. In the US citizens favor. Of all firearms in the world period, US citizens hold between 40 and 55% depending on estimates, with roughly half being the most frequent and recent estimate. Total world militaries own about 15%, including many countries like China, Iran, etc where only the militaries (and not all of them just the ultra loyal ones) are usually armed, or stuck in old Soviet stockpiles across the former eastern bloc. Of fighting age adults adults, there's enough in circulation for every one to have 5, and average range time for private owners versus military and law enforcement (there IS a LOT of overlap though) is about 12 times the training and range time last I saw. American gun owners on average are better shots, better equipped, and more familiar with their weapons than any LEO or military in the world.
@Canis Arktos, the main use of a pistol in a hunting family is to humanely put down a wounded animal. Firing a full power hunting rifle at point blank range will shred the meat and risks sending bone shrapnel throughout you and the animal, both undesirable. As for an AR their biggest use is pest and nuisance control. Coyotes are about the biggest you would use a dedicated AR for, will kill pets and livestock, are skittish (meaning you need the longer range accuracy) and bolt, and carry diseases like rabies that can kill a person and especially your animals. Going back to pistols though, its more about close range than people, any rifle will fail compared to a pistol in close quarters. If a boar is charging you, you don't want your barrel knocking against a tree, and the limited range doesn't matter when they are rushing you or its so close. Even the shotgun with its "spread" is basically just an inch at that close a range unless you saw its barrel off stupid short (super illegal).
@thrawnfett, my argument was each citizen should be able to buy as many as the military has.
@NameyMcNameFace, mission accomplished bro, hi five
@thrawnfett, I recognize that I speak from a place of ignorance and thank you for talking to me but I always figured that if you were in such close range with an animal you’d want something with a bit more stopping power than your standard pistol. Don’t get me wrong, the humane finish makes sense but if a boar were running at you, AND close enough that a rifle is unwieldy, would you feel a pistol was enough to stop it.
My understanding of pistols was as a side arm. A “well this didn’t go well” back up. I mean, if a bear was literally on top of me I’d rather a pistol than some long barreled rifle or a tooth pick but I was inclined to believe the much better option was to step back and keep using the more powerful gun. I don’t know. I guess that’s as honest as I can be, I don’t know. Thoughts?
@Canis Arktos, that's where tailoring your sidearm to your use case comes in. If you're going boar hunting specifically, their skulls are thick enough to deflect a .308 hunting rifle, a powerful round. Charging they go head first and while it can punch through it if it hits just right it can also easily just make it mad. But .308 is a great hog round at a distance. Meanwhile .500 Magnum can punch through their skull. A 50 caliber rifle can be twenty pounds easy and 4 foot long. That 308 will still be 3 feet and 10 or 12 pounds. A .500 Smith & Wesson is 6 pounds and a foot. Up close it has more impact energy and stopping power but will expend its energy quickly versus a quicker moving rifle round (with the same round, longer barrels will be higher speed). So long as your up close you'd be better off with the pistol for stopping power, because the overall smaller size and weight will allow you to carry a larger and more powerful round without the disadvantages of having a full size rifle
@Canis Arktos, you can also go the other way, having an extremely powerful rifle like a .45-70 (can easily be used as an elephant gun) and a "weaker" sidearm like a 9mm. The small rounds will be enough to keep most things off of you, and if they aren't you have the large rifle. The bigger the round fired, the heavier and less ammo you tend to have available. A glock 17 can have a magazine with 17 or 33 plus one in the chamber. Something like the .45-70 you'll get maybe 5 shots, more commonly 1 to 3. AR's are good because they hold 30 rounds standard in a 7.5 pound frame loaded. If you have to fire 2 rounds from your .45-70 to drop a target, thats 40% of your ammo right there in a slow to reload gun (5 to 15 seconds depending on which gun). Meanwhile thats 12 AR rounds in a gun that takes about 1.5 seconds to reload for someone familiar or trained with them. Even if you need to fire the entire mag to actually stop something thats still easy to do and you can easily carry enough.
@thrawnfett, being somewhere closer to novice than firearm hobbiest i’ll probably reread this a few times to make sure I understand it all but already this is interesting. Thanks for the info.
@Canis Arktos, to drop a lot of the technical details and give a grossly general rule of thumb: long gun should be for whatever you're shooting long range. Pistol is the biggest gun for any thing that could kill you at short range. If you're in bear country hunting deer, have a deer rifle and the biggest handgun you can for the bear. If you're hunting hogs, have the most efficient long range hog rifle which will probably not be the biggest, and a pistol big enough to take down a charging boar head on but not bigger. If you're hunting rabbits or other small game with a small rifle, make sure your pistol can take on coyotes.
@Canis Arktos, I believe you have a very valid point of view in this case and I wish the people making the laws shared your view. Pistols are for killing civilians, and long guns are for sport and defending your country.
As a collector, semi auto rifles are much more appealing just for the mechanics and comfort of them.
Sorry for that little bit of political frustration. Hopefully it wasn't too much.
@thrawnfett, I want to go on a boar hunt in the worst way, but I want to go with an experienced hunter and without the use of dogs. Those things are way more dangerous than most people realize, and the idea of putting a dog between me and them bothers the hell out of me.
@ThePandaPool , most everywhere I've lived they are classed as nuisance/pest animals, so no tag or season limits and you don't even need to recover the body if you don't want. My advice would be two things and a comment. One you'll never get more than one chance at a time especially with a herd cause they bolt immediately so take the time and only do sure shots or you'll be at it for hours waiting for em to calm down. Two make sure you have a pistol that can actually drop em up close through the head, because they are sneaky lil f'ers and a lone pig usually means they're just away from the herd not that the herd isn't nearby in a hole. A good hunting dog will be fine though, pigs usually run from canines and a hunting dog knows not to corner in a place he can charge. Worst case you can usually pop a round, most boar have learned what a gunshot means and will usually break and bolt. Most nuisance states will also have groups where you can go to say Florida and they'll organize the hunt.
@thrawnfett, solid advice. Sorry, but I'm not gonna be able to get over the idea of putting the dog in harm's way even if you say it's safe. (That sounds like I have an attitude, but I don't mean it that way.) And I didn't know it was that way where it was so common to organize hunts. I can't field dress an animal, so I would be looking to pay someone to do that for me, I wouldn't want to waste meat. What difference is there between wild boar and store bought pork? If you've tried it.
@NameyMcNameFace, as someone that lives in a country where its very hard to own a gun and even if I did get one legally would go to prison for defending myself in my home, I envy America
@Canis Arktos, pistols aren't just for humans. They are also for sport. Target shooting. It is one of my hobbies and I enjoy it. It is a different style of target shooting than using rifles or shotguns.
@NameyMcNameFace, I need at least 12. No one firearm covers every situation.
I need at least 3-4 subcompacts/compacts for concealed carry for me and my wife, a couple full sized handguns for home defense around the house, two or three larger caliber handguns for hunting sidearms, at least one short barreled shotgun for cqb, one or two long barrel shotguns for hunting, a PDW rifle, two or three semi-auto rifles for either hunting or anti-tyranny activities as I like to call them, a couple small caliber rifles for small game or varmint, a precision rifle for sniping or medium game hunting, and a large game bolt action. And then whatever guns you would own for fun like repeater rifles.
I’ve got at least 8 guns on my wish list and I already own 7
@Canis Arktos, You should definitely get an AR-15. I got one about a month ago and there are so many modifications you can make to it, it's unreal.
@ThePandaPool , depending on how close to a packing/processing plant you live, not much. Freshness is the name of that game mostly, put a boar in a cage it'll go back to being a pig after awhile, put a pig in the wild it'll turn into a boar eventually. As to dogs that more personal choice, just cause you didn't know say skydiving was always tandem with an instructor so your fear of not pulling the cord isn't a problem doesn't mean you have to jump on the nearest cesna. But the hunts are pretty popular, hardest thing about dressing for most people is just getting the will to do it, not the activity itself.
@thrawnfett, good to know. For the dressing, I'm not physically capable. I want introduced at a young enough age, and can't stomach it. Once it has been done, that switch is flipped in my head that it's just meat, and I can butcher it, but until then I'm useless. Lol
@InsaneAnimeCleavage, considering they sell 22LR plinking ammo in packs of 500 for $20, I doubt it...
@RogueKnight, as a sometime fencer I can relate to that. But I recognize that a foil and a claymore are similar but too clearly for different purposes. Somewhere in my mind there’s a preference for things with another type of utility. A spear is obviously a weapon, but can be useful for hunting and gathering food too.
I’ve been really enjoying my chat with thrawnfett on this thread as he has informed me of the non human and non sport uses of pistols as a category. NameyMcNameFace has also offered some neat perspective on the topic. In any case, thanks for yours. I don’t ever think I’ll collect guns myself but it’s been fun to hear about the collections of others and how they interact with them.
@Canis Arktos, your points are well made, and admittedly, most of the firearms i own are for work. I'm a peace officer in the USA. I have a couple that are hand-me-downs from deceased relatives. By no means am I a hardcore gun collector.
Outside of work, I enjoy sport shooting with shotgun, rifle, and handgun. I also do some hiking and camping out in the middle of nowhere, so I take a handgun and shotgun for self defense from unfriendlies, whether they have two legs or four. The handgun mainly because of portability.
Thankfully, I have never had to use a firearm in self defense. On the job or off.
@ThePandaPool , I hear you on the political stuff. It’s hard to not have feelings. I will say that, if you haven’t already, thrawnfett’s info on this thread has let me see pistols in a new light. Of course they’re dangerous, so are cars and airplanes. But like the other two, do they carry a utility? Can they aid us in our lives. It’s been really interesting to read this thread and see a greater utility than I had realized.
I’ve been curious to go on a hunt myself sometime and while I’m willing to try a field dressing, I’m certain I’d be garbage at it. Any chance you’re in the northeast U.S.? Like you, if I get around to it I’d be interested in going with others.
To be honest a vegan challenged me. Asked if I could shoot an animal and look in it’s eyes as I kill it. Honestly, it seemed a fair question. As a typical American I eat a fair bit of meat without fully owning that choice. I’ve been meaning to see if I deserve the hamburgers I enjoy so much.
@RogueKnight, I’m glad to hear you’re staying safe out there. Especially in difficult times like these, I appreciate the things you do to keep us safe.
I too enjoyed the smallest amount of sport shooting at the BSA camp I used to work at. Oddly, I’d say my interaction with firearms is not entirely different to my interaction with Star Trek. (Hear me out, its not as bad as it sounds). My dad is a treky. He never dressed as a Klingon but he read all the books and saw all the shows. He enjoys it and I’m certain I would too. But there are only so many hours in a life and I’m already tied up with other interests. If I started, the time and money that would go into it, would have to come from other things I enjoy. Someday perhaps. It’d be really neat if I could try the immortality thing for a while. That’d help me get to all my interests. Oh well. We all make the best choices we can with the time we have.
@Canis Arktos, and what you describe is exactly why I don't hunt. No time. I love deer and elk, but I have too many other things going on!
@Canis Arktos, the utility is less obvious in this case. To me, the utility. Is the threat that the masses are a force and not just cattle.
I'm in the north east, but you would need to travel for the boar hunts. They aren't a thing up here yet. Mostly Virginia and below. Eating meat is a way deeper subject. To me it's a simple idea of don't waste, and Respect nature. Don't kill for a trophy and toss the meat.
@NameyMcNameFace, let's just say, I have plenty
how did he do that i want one too
@OmegaExceed, Armies all their surplus occasionally, not illegal to buy one in the us. Probably need a pilots license, not sure. Never bought a plane
@KushAndAnarchy, wow i gotta visit one of those
@OmegaExceed, the Australian air force was clearing out their inventory to make room and funding for their incoming F-35s. Guy runs a business where he provides targets and pilots to train the US military in dogfighting and the like. Basically he sends a flight out, the trainees have to scramble and intercept, then they go hostile, lasers and computers determine who won. "Real world simulation" basically, and since he doesn't have the same plane readiness requirements and restrictions as the government its cheaper for them to hire him than to burn flight hours on double the planes for training. Plus he has a wider selection of planes than the military who need relatively standardized fleets since they need squadrons and he can buy 2 to 4 or something.
@thrawnfett, dang thats one hell of a job
@OmegaExceed, money. Those things are not cheap. Other than that probably wait till its decommissioned and buy it. Might also have connections as well
Are these the murder Hornets I keep hearing about?
God. Damn. Right.