Oh man here comes the flame war.
@ThePandaPool , *lights cigar in the flames*
@ThePandaPool , I didn't realize headlight use was gEy
@ThePandaPool , People are stupid, and I have the experience to backup the claim.
@ThePandaPool , all the idiots have come out to play
@ThePandaPool , 🤭🍿
Hey, look! False equivalence! Sweet.
@Hot Coffee, TAKE YOUR MEDICINE OR ELSE MY MEDICINE WON’T WORK!
@Snarfel Burger, if you don't use your headlights, my headlights won't work!
@Hot Coffee, cars already have headlights built into them. As long as they work properly, they don't need a supplemental headlight attachment to work better.
@Bench, racecars don't
@Mag3rPayne, that means neither work
@Bench, I mean if we're going to be historically accurate then headlights used to be an accessory you had the option to purpose before it became legally required. But, if we're going to be factually accurate, then we should look at the known facts. The idea of the MRNA shot is to alter your DNA to produce a certain protein Spike that will suppress certain symptoms. So the idea is after you get infected it'll suppress symptoms. So the very concept of mRNA shots means you can get infected and only certain symptoms will be blocked. This means you'll be able to breathe and you might not have a fever, but it can still damage your brain and eat your testicles. So it would be useful if it wasn't causing so many people to get blood clots. And people are saying life insurance doesn't have to pay out if you take an experimental shot, so families might not only lose a family member from the shot but also not get any insurance payout from their death. I'll only take shots that are confirmed safe.
@Good Pineapple Pizza, look a lot of what you just said was not accurate but I’m not going to nitpick. I agree that the shots aren’t 100% effective but nothing is in the real world. I implore anyone reading this to just get the shot because I have an uncle dying of covid in the hospital rn and he would still be fine if people actually cared about each other. It’s about more than you, it’s bigger than you, get the shot. Also spend time with your family cause I hadn’t seen him in like ten years and now the next time I’m going to be seeing him is at his funeral.
@B00shBag, I'm really sorry to hear that but I dont think the problem is "people dont care about each other". The problem is the complete lack of government trust from the majority of both parties, created by both parties. If your over 30 you have a better chance of survival if you get the vaccine. If your under 30 it doesnt really matter, besides passing it. But forcing people to get it, specifically so they wont pass it to someone vulnerable is backwards thinking. The vulnerable people are responsible for getting the vaccine. This funny pic analogy would be more accurate if anyone under 30 with no underlying conditions, plus the vaccinated, only flew planes and never drove cars.
@Good Pineapple Pizza, they are, by the millions that have gotten them. A virus with above a 10% kill rate is less scary than a shot with a .0004% rate of causing a blood clot. This joke is targeted at you
@MavHunter, Lmaooo even the fake numbers don't show 10% mortality. All age groups and all comorbidities is a 2% mortality rate.
@Papyru, hey personally I hope you dont mask up or get a shot. At this point most infections are the variant and all are on unvaxed. Get it and enjoy. Dont forget to put you gold lightening bolts in wallet
@MavHunter, I've already had it and the quality of antibodies from infection are better than those from any vaccine. I know daddy fauci/CDC says otherwise, but I'd rather get it again than have sudden early onset MS like so many people I know who have gotten the shot.
@Papyru, lmao sudden onset MS like the many people you know who got the shot? wow that is…dumb
@Richard Cypher, I met a lot of people when a family friend joined a study at the mayo clinic for healthcare workers who got sudden onset MS after the shot. I'd rather lose my taste and smell for a few weeks than become blind or paralyzed. But it's up to you what you want to do.
@MavHunter, actually, a good percentage of folks getting Delta are vaxxed. I'm a first responder and many of my coworkers who are vaxxed have had the Delta variant already.
@Papyru, hahaha sudden onset MA. Man I can't argue with your level of stupid. Go get your gold lightening bolt there bud, and I look forward to you no longer breathing my air
@MavHunter, You sound real stupid calling someone else dumb for talking about sudden onset MS. It's not common, but it exists.
@Papyru, not from the vaccine you idiot. You still are the one sou ding stupid if that's what you took away from my response. Haha csnt argue with you. Put your lightening bolts in wallet and dont wear a mask already
@MavHunter, If I had made it up the Mayo clinic wouldn't be doing a study on it. You don't have a real argument because you're wrong
@Papyru, hahaha dude you're garbage argument is barely based in reality. My argument is sound that vaccines dont cause autism or MS. L8er tater. Go get you gold lightening bolts
@Good Pineapple Pizza, 27 out of 8.7 million have possibly had blood clots related to the j&j vaccine. Unlike the disease itself this sh!t is blown out of proportion.
@Snarfel Burger, you....you do know that is how vaccines work?
@Mag3rPayne, I mean, I got blindsided by a guy at night because his headlights were off. So uh, yeah kinda?
@Hot Coffee, I mean, it's a joke lol. It is purely false equivalency, but it's a meme
@MavHunter, They don't cause autism, but they can cause MS. Tell this to the mayo clinic, not me.
@Mantis Tobaggan, yep, and I’m making fun of it.
@Papyru, dude no it doesnt hahaha.do your research. I looked up your mayo clinic bs. It's a study on the long term effects of it on MS. So you clearly even cant read hahahaha. It you read a clearly boas article so you cant think hahaha
@Hot Coffee, imo whataboutism and the slippery slope fallacy are some of the worst ones, but false equivalency isn't much better. "No shirt, no shoes, no service" is a better comparison.
@MavHunter, It's not public yet because they haven't gotten their full sample group. And it's specifically for healthcare workers.
@Papyru, and yet you know hahahahaha. Dude shut up. I best your argument and it became you now know more about it than the public. Quoting the mayo clinic which releases almost off of its info publicly. You lost. Shut up, go buy your lightening bolts and stop. You're now no longer worth anytime with the "I have special info" argument hahaha
@MavHunter, Idk what your first language is but that lightning bolt thing makes no sense in English, for the record. Of course I would know about it, my family friend is participating. It is fully possible that she was lied to about what the study entails, though, knowing my experience with the MC.
@MavHunter, dude. Stop feeding into him. Papyru has been doing this for a while now. He makes thing up and tries to get reactions from people who know what they're talking about.
@Papyru, it makes perfect sense. You're a trumpeter, but a bad one clearly. If you followed world sorest loser youd understand. Second sure. You have special info on how a vaccine is causing MS. They dont cause autism or MS. You're just wrong and stupid and its ok
@ThePandaPool , it's fun. Whether hes a troll or just an idiot, he still LOOKS stupid. I'm laughing at the idiocy. Eventually he will say "oh I was just trolling, when hes 100% defeated, and he'll look even dumber
@MavHunter, it never works out that way. Dont feed the trolls.
@Mantis Tobaggan, do... do you know how the vaccine works? Because Fauci and the CDC have already said the viral load carried by vaccinated people is equivalent to those who are unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, you are still spreading it, you are just VERY unlikely to get severe symptoms. This means getting vaccinated is to help you and you alone. People need to stop shaming each other. So I repeat my initial sarcastic comment... TAKE YOUR MEDICINE OR MY MEDICINE WON’T WORK! REEEEEEEEEEE!
@Lying Cat, the disease itself was the most blown out of proportion thing in human history.
@ThePandaPool , except, uh... the part where she's not making it up. You, uh, forgot about that part
@Snarfel Burger, you are cherry picking. In RARE cases people can have mild to moderate symptoms and spread, or be an asymptomatic spreader. Keyword is rare. You are less that half as likely with the vaccine. My source is Clevelandclinic.org. I will provide a link if you would like.
it works like all other vaccines, no vaccine is 100% effective.
@Mantis Tobaggan, Try what again? How are there statistics on vaccinated, unsymptomatic spread? Are vaccinated people out getting tested a lot when they have no symptoms? The CDC scaled back tracking breakthrough cases. Besides, if vaccinated spread is so rare, why are they suggesting vaccinated people wear masks again? There was even talk of encouraging vaccinated people to wear masks at home.
@Snarfel Burger, because rare is not the same has unable to spread? Wtf lol. The data is there and I've told you where. I'll provide a link if youd like, though idk if you can copy and paste in funnypics
@Mantis Tobaggan, I can’t copy and paste but it won’t change the argument anyway. People who are carrying antibodies are just as immune as vaccinated people. In fact, my doctor’s office told me I need to wait 90 days from testing positive for covid before getting vaccinated. The point i’m making is, people can have plenty of good reasons to not get vaccinated, they don’t need to be blamed for spreading the virus when getting vaccinated doesn’t stop the spread anymore than antibodies.
@Snarfel Burger, but...it does lol. You wait 90 days because you have it in your system for that long, the vaccine lasts much longer, and makes spreading much less likely. So me providing evidence doesn't change the argument? That is willful ignorance at best.
If you don't get the vaccine will you socially distance, wear a mask, or take any other precautions to slow the virus down? If not, you deserve the blame.
The vaccine significantly slows the virus down, as all vaccines do. It doesn't make you immune. Thats not how any of this works.
@Mantis Tobaggan, The evidence I want to see is where natural immunity is less effective than the vaccine? Because more and more evidence is pointing to the opposite. (Btw, consider this a response to our other discussion below). You’re saying natural immunity wears off, but apparently so do the vaccines or else they wouldn’t be discussing boosters.
Like I said, I have antibodies, how am I spreading the virus more than you if you’re vaccinated?
I’ve never said I expect the vaccine to make you immune, but it is extremely effective at reducing symptoms, my nurse sister is vaccinated and tested positive last week. However, she had no symptoms due to being vaccinated. That’s also why I encouraged my older overweight dad to get vaccinated.
But natural immunity is also extremely effective at reducing symptoms, I’m living proof of that. I had a bad covid case in September of 2020 and then tested positive again in June of 2021 and had no symptoms the second time.
@Snarfel Burger, anecdotal evidence doesn't count as different people react differently. You had no symptoms, but you were still spreading it. Vaccines are better at stopping the spread. The vaccine has a much more consistent record of slowing stuff down at this point in time. Therefore, people that are vaccinated spread less as there are fewer variables. Anecdotal evidence such as "well I had no symptoms the second time" doesn't mean anything. While things change as we learn more, the evidence we have now suggests vaccines are better than our natural immune systems, that's why they have worked for so long.
@Snarfel Burger, I am glad you recommended your dad to get it. It shows you are open to it, and not some conspiracy nut.
@Mantis Tobaggan, Me giving you anecdotal evidence is no worse than you saying “evidence suggests”. Where are you getting the evidence about natural immunity being less effective? I actually am curious at seeing that. I know you said go to “Clevelandclinic.org” but you might have to tell me specifically where on that site. I can’t find info on vaccinated spread vs antibody spread.
As a side note, I’d be really interested in seeing if they have statistics on hospitalization rates for those who have been reinfected. Not trying to make you do all the leg work for me, I just can’t seem to find it. They may not even keep that data. (I.e. rate of people with severe symptoms who are on their 2nd / 3rd round of covid).
You said there is evidence that the vaccine is more effective than the natural immunity you develop from getting covid, but there have been a couple studies coming from the Israeli government saying otherwise. There’s even an MSNBC and NY TIMES article citing the Israeli...
@Mantis Tobaggan, Health minister, who said the Pfizer vaccine is only like 39% effective against the Delta Variant. However, the hospitals in my area are almost 100% filled with unvaccinated people. So like I said, it sounds like the vaccine is super good at keeping you out of the hospital but not super good at keeping you from getting and spreading covid.
Yes, I recommended my dad get it. I’ve personally known two people around his age who have died from covid, both unvaccinated (one died before the vaccine was an option) I think anyone who is in a high risk group should at least consider it. Everyone needs to do their own cost/benefit analysis.
@Snarfel Burger, "People who have received both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine are half as likely to be infected with the delta coronavirus variant than those who have not been vaccinated, according to a new study led by researchers at Imperial College London"
An article published yesterday from here
@Snarfel Burger, "Acquired immunity is safer than natural immunity. For all vaccine-preventable illnesses, the risk of developing a serious vaccine-related side effect is much smaller than the risk of serious complications if infected."
@Snarfel Burger, "Can Vaccinated People Transmit COVID-19 to Others? – Cleveland Clinic" https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-vaccinated-people-transmit-covid-19-to-others/amp/
The Cleveland one I referred to earlier. Not as recent as the Forbes one
@Mantis Tobaggan, I went ahead and read through all your sources. Lower down, the Forbes article you gave me said:
“The researchers estimated that two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine are 49% effective at preventing infection with the delta variant, in line with recent data from Israel and much lower than previous estimates. “Development of vaccines against delta may be warranted” given the reduced effectiveness of current vaccines against the strain, the researchers wrote, warning that even high levels of vaccination may be unable to stop it spreading in the fall.”
This is in line with what I was saying before. The article also said:
“The CDC recently found signs vaccinated people may be just as infectious as the unvaccinated, however, and further research will be needed to settle the matter. A lower chance does not mean zero chance, and the CDC recommends even the fully vaccinated to wear masks in certain places.”....
@Mantis Tobaggan, On the Healthgrades article you gave me, right before it said “Healthcare professionals say acquired immunity is more effective than natural immunity” it made it sound like they’re only talking about some illnesses and they’re not sure about covid.
“In some cases, vaccine-acquired immunity is stronger than natural immunity. According to CHOP, HPV, tetanus, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), and pneumococcal vaccines induce a better immune response than natural infection. Researchers are still learning about natural and vaccine-induced immunity for COVID-19. At present, healthcare providers believe that both COVID-19 infection and COVID-19 vaccination produce immunity that likely lasts at least eight months. This immunity is not complete; it’s possible to contract COVID-19 after COVID-19 vaccination or an earlier bout of infection, though these cases are not usually severe.”
@Mantis Tobaggan, If you do a search for the Israeli study that says “natural immunity is more effective than covid vaccine” it will pop up a lot of different news articles citing it. Here is a good one, because it has links to a lot of other studies and news articles:
I was hoping one of them would show rates of hospitalizations of reinfected people, not just positive cases. I still can’t seem to find that.
@ThePandaPool , aw, sometimes it’s fun!
@Snarfel Burger, ok finally got around to reading that study, and thank you for providing a source.
“We recommend that people who have had COVID-19 still get vaccinated because they will have that immunity that they’ve already developed be made more robust, last longer, and be more durable against certain problematic variants,” he said.
That's my main point, and it's from the article you sent. Some people do have longer lasting immunity, some don't, the vaccine is much more consistent, and safer for those who have not had it. The isreli study you shared, plus what I shared kind of proves my point I believe. Vaccinations are better than not in most cases, even if you had previously been infected. I very much appreciate you being open and sharing a source, but I don't know where you got "getting vaccinated only helps you, and you alone" idea from when what you yourself shared as evidence says the opposite. We can continue if you want, but I understand if you'd rather drop it as well.
@Mantis Tobaggan, The articles you cited also seemed to contradict everything you stated as well. That’s what I was pointing out in my comments on each of your sources.
My point about “the vaccine helping you and you alone” is that none of these sources came out and unequivocally stated that Covid-19 vaccines limit the spread more so than natural immunity. The sources only implied that vaccines “in general” are more effective against the spread of disease than your natural immunity. Whereas the studies showed that your natural immunity is atleast more effective at preventing covid-19 illness than the vaccine.
That being said, the study suggesting you still get the vaccine to bolster your antibodies does not make sense in the context that we have no data (at least you and I were unable to cite any) that shows the rate at which reinfected people are becoming severely ill. No one seems to be interested in that statistic other than me, and I feel it is very relevant information for...
@Mantis Tobaggan, people in low-risk groups who are vaccine hesitant.
I also appreciate your openness and glad that we can agree to disagree. That’s a good sign that neither one of us would want to mandate that the other do something they would rather have the freedom not to do. Thank you.
I don't see what this could possibly be making fun of
Look, I’m all for making light and trying to laugh at everything, but can’t we leave each other alone? We all have different reasons for different ideals. Just agree to disagree. It’s not that hard
@Pat Myckok, I agree, I just want to be left alone, but as long as there’s people out there pushing for laws and rules that dictate what should be personal choice, imma have some words for you.
@Hot Coffee, that’s our biggest problem. It’s impossible to govern a country as diverse as America. It’s not right to pass something that works in California but not in Alaska. We really should give more power to the states and less to the feds
@Pat Myckok, preach! There’s too much power in the federal government.
@Pat Myckok, but weren't the things this is talking about imposed by states and not the federal government?
@ThePandaPool , in this post, yes. I meant in general I think the feds have too much power. I was also drunk when I wrote it, hence the bîtching
@Pat Myckok, in America the way it works is simple: the job of the state governments is to ensure that the country's government does not exert absolute rule over the citizens, the job of the County's government is to ensure that the state government and the federal government does not exert absolute rule over its citizens, the job of the city's government is to ensure that the County's government, the state government, and the federal government does not exert absolute rule over the city's citizens. Now local law enforcement will enforce local laws over federal laws, and federal law enforcers will enforce federal law over local law. Now the citizens themselves, the role they play is to elect people into power at every level that will defend the citizens rights. From the president to the governor to the mayor to the sheriff to the judges, each of them has a limit to how much power they are allowed to wield, and they can only get into Power by one path, elections. The only flaw is fraud.
@Hot Coffee, haha basically who the headlight joke is targeted at
@Pat Myckok, Branch covidians can't leave people alone. They're miserable in their fear and it upsets them that others aren't living in fear.
@Pat Myckok, I agree when people's stupidity isn't actively hurting others Being an idiot about this is getting others sick or killing them, we can't simply "agree to disagree" about that.
@ThePandaPool , shh! That doesn't fit the paranoid narrative they like!
@Mantis Tobaggan, how many times in your life did you ever worry about causing death by spreading the flu? Or call people murderers if they didn't get their flu shot?
@Mag3rPayne, oh we are back to that fallacy? I get the flu shot every year, I've never had it. If you have the flu, knowongly transmit it to someone, and they die, you were responsible.
@Mantis Tobaggan, so a flu death is no longer a death of natural cause? It is equated to manslaughter and murder?
@Mag3rPayne, I didn't say that, but good way to prove you like to make sh!t up. I said you are responsible, not that you should go to jail.
@Mantis Tobaggan, honestly, the false sense of security that comes from being vaccinated is what’s most dangerous. As for agreeing to disagree, I’ve had no problem maintaining a pretty good radius from randos, but I also work outside and don’t have a very active social life, so my experiences are probably skewed by that
@Mantis Tobaggan, what I asked though, was at how many times in your life did you worry that you killed someone by having the flu? It's clearly a deadly virus. They are treating healthy people like they are nothing more than bioweapons. Purposefully dancing around the validity of natural immunity, and trying to blame variants on the population that isn't applying evolutionary pressures on the virus. You ever get tired of "doing everything right" just for the CDC to flip on you for the umpteenth time? A consensus of scientists at the CDC doesn't mean shjt. A consensus of scientists used to believe malaria came from the dirt, it took the outlier scientists to discover it was mosquitos. Now we censor those with that line of thinking.
@Pat Myckok, fair enough. This is one of few issues I simply can't agree to disagree on.
@Mag3rPayne, To answer your first question more specifically, I've never once worried about spreading the flu because I've never had it, I already answered this but whatever.
I never directly said I'd call someone a murderer for giving someone the flu, because they aren't. They are responsible, but not murderer.
On the virus: Viruses evolve as they spread. That is where variants come from. Vaccines reduce spreading by a significant amount, so yes, those unvaccinated for anything other than medical reasons have a good bit of the blame.
It's a new virus, the cdc learns more, and adapts strategies. That is how it works.
If you don't want to get vaccinated thats fine, but at least take other precautions against spreading the thing around.
Oh, and natural immunity to covid is only good for about 90 days, that's why ypu can't get the vaccine before 90 days are up. The vaccine trains your body to resist the virus for a long period of time, as all vaccines do.
@Mantis Tobaggan, you are so certain of that timeline on natural immunity, yet those who had sars still have immunity almost two decades later. If the vaccine is protecting people from spreading it why are they being asked to mask up? Why are they suggesting boosters already? I'll take my natural immunity over a lifetime of being a pin cushion. Vaccine breakthrough is just a fancy way of saying vaccine failure.
@Mag3rPayne, I mean generally about the immunity
@Mag3rPayne, different people have different immunity, vaccines are more consistently reliable.
They are being asked to mask up because no vaccine in history has been 100 percent effective, and though it is very rare, the vaccinated can still catch and spread covid, especially now that we have a varient. Boosters to deal with variants and what not have been a thing for a long time, and we have a variants. It isn't that complicated. I wonder how many people with this ridiculous line of thinking were around when Polio was spreading.
@Pat Myckok, we tried that and ended up in a civil war because some states thought black people should be property
I understand some are leery of the "new" vaccine. I would just like to say it isn't new, it is an adapted version of an older sars vaccine. It's pretty old, just updated. No real reason to fear guys. Side effect percentage is super low, and not one vaccine has ever been 100% effective. To achieve herd immunity we need as many as possible to get it. I'm not going to tell you that you must get it, but if you don't you are actively part of the problem.
@Mantis Tobaggan, I have antibodies, so i’m good. Part of the solution. 👍
@Snarfel Burger, oh good! Vaccines bolster your antibodies to make catching and spreading diseases far less likely, glad you got it!
@Mantis Tobaggan, I just don’t think you’re a real doctor, Mantis. You’re name is too suspicious.
@Raki Zaki, I've also got a magnum dong!
False equivalence is a logical fallacy
@Papyru, yep it is. It's also a joke.
@Papyru, hahahahahaha my fking dude! You quoted the MC as your proof, then said the MC lies and all your info is second hand! Hahahahaha omg dude you cant be this dumb like really
Don't forget about "my best friends uncle always drives with his headlights on but still got in an accident recently!!!1!1!!1!"
Making a bit of a stretch with this one aren’t one?
@troubled panda, "no shirt, no shoes, no service" is a better example. But this is a joke, jokes exaggerate at times.
Think it would be better if the first line said Jeep.
“Burns gas faster.”
“Freeloaders can light their own way.”
“Can’t speed tag what you can’t see.”
“Light’s don’t work.”
Yeah this is absolutely not relevant
Jokes can always offend someone who has a personal experience to them. Which Is just what’s going to happen sometimes with jokes so I try not to take things personally. But my grandma was killed in a car accident, partly attributed to the other driver driving at a high rate of speed, in the somewhat dark early morning in rain, with no headlights. Where I live it’s state law, if your wipers are on your headlights need to be on. So that sucked big time. And if this is some joke about the covid jab it’s a poor one.
I figured it out, if you've picked up your phone you're a idiot........... I got my mom to type this on her phone
@butternut squash, "he's too dangerous to be left alive!"