It is kinda true wether or not we want to admit it
Why is it that every time someone criticizes a star wars movie they are always lumped in with the radicals? I liked Force awakens but was severely disappointed with last jedi. I don't hate star wars and I never harassed any of these people just like most of the people who don't like the new star wars movies.
@JewishXenu, it's because they made a mediocre movie with some notable problems, and because some of the people who disliked it are psychopaths they feel like they have the ability to say that everyone who doesn't like the Last Jedi must be crazy.
Thus, they do not have to own up to their criticisms, merely attempting to release more movies with the hopes of shaming people to watch them by saying "You aren't a psychopath, right?"
@JewishXenu, Honestly I think much of the backlash, not the harassment or anything, was warranted. When you take over a universe this loved and steeped in lore and say you're not making movies for the long time fans, then get really lazy with the writing and directing, you are going to get backlash. I don't blame the actors, I blame the directors.
@DandyZombie35, to be fair though, have you seen George Lucas’s old plans for the series? They were absolutely bonkers. It was basically going to be from the perspective of midichlorians, but somehow even worse than just that. I can understand criticism of the new movies, but they still add to the series and we weren’t going to get anything better from anyone else, especially not Lucas.
@YUNoJump, No, and I don't think he was necessarily the best either, but still. When you specifically say "fvck you" to your long time fans and then get super lazy with the plot, people will get reasonably upset.
@YUNoJump, I think.... Star Wars was just lucky to be a success because it was so simple in story when George made it in the 70s... as time went on and he was influenced by other stories and media his creativity on the lore just got out of hand and that shows in the prequels.
@JewishXenu, if you didn’t do it then this doesn’t apply to you
Are you seriously posting a Dobson comic? Basically the most hackneyed and despised "ally" for equality? The guy basically goes out his way to virtue signal and told Zelda Williams that she get over her father's, Robin Williams, death because of reasons. He's also is spineless jackoff notoriously known to harass people over political opinions, blocks them when he can't argue back, then bemoans about how awful fans are of things
edit: if anyone wants proof, Google hypocrisyofandrewdobson and look him up on bad webcomics wiki
@ptitty1231, also while I'm at it, Kylo Ren is actually one of the better characters. He was betrayed by Luke, mentally tormented by Snoke, and is despised by The First Order. The only one that gives a damn about him is Rey, who was trying to get him on the Light side of the Force, which ultimately wants.
So great job missing that point, Dobby
@ptitty1231, wait she told Zelda to get over her fathers death like ASAP and not mourn?
@megamanx181x, he tweeted a picture of FemThor saying calm thine tits to her tweet saying "This week has been a tough one, near & far. Sometimes I fight it with laughter, other times information. Today, strangely, I'm at a loss."
Say what you will about people's reaction/aftermath to TLJ, but Dobson is in no position to enact Judgement on others
@ptitty1231, well F this guy all the way to hell then
No one boycotted TFA. 3rd panel is completely wrong.
There's no evidence Marie Tran was bullied off of Twitter.
I guess the reason Black Panther was such a flop was because it had no white characters and pandered to the fans giving them what they expected. Oh wait, Black Panther was a huge success.
I guess the reason Wonder Woman was such a flop was because it had a strong female lead role and it pandered to it's fans. Oh wait, it didn't flop either.
Please stop pretending TLJ is a good movie. I didn't mind TFA too badly, but looking back it just leaves a sour taste for ripping off ANH. I expected Dsny to make an original movie and give every character a little more depth. Maybe a force ghost was channeling their powers through Rey to give her those force abilities. We wanted explanation.
And TLJ disappointed. It not only ignored, but threw out those questions entirely by answering "because".
I really liked Rose and Holdo, but the character's dialog just wasn't handled well.
@Tentastic, You could remove Finn and Rose and the movie wouldn't change. At all.
Holdo was an interesting character, but the dialog and their actions don't add up.
If Rose said "I love you Finn" instead of the crap she did, that woulda been fine. Finn's attempted suicide was so cliche if made me sick to watch.
The movie just dragged on. Rey wasnt a mary sue until this movie- we expected an explanation for everything. But the movie told us she was just able to do everything because she was the cliche 'chosen one', and supposedly a hero because of it.
A. There’s plenty of evidence she was bullied off twitter. It isn’t there now because everythings been deleted. But if you ever looked at the comment section/replies some people were pretty harsh
B. That was a bit random bringing up two movies that are apart of a completely different fanbase ffom star wars. You can’t compare those fanbases to each other.
C. Nobody is “pretending” TLJ was a good movie. Plenty of people thoroughly enjoyed it. Half the fanbase will agree that it was a great movie.
D. TLJ didn’t have to answer all the questions, you realize there is a third movie right? It’s rare all, or even most of the questions are answered in the 2nd film in a trilogy story
E. Yeah I agree. Their characters werent that bad but their dilogue was eh
F. I wasn’t a huge fan of their story but it developed finn’s character and gave a message that “not everything works out, but hope is always there”
G. I thought finn’s attempted suicide showed how he isn’t a coward anymore
H. Rey’s power was explained. One of snoke’s lines was “The dark rises and the light to meet it”. The force always tries to balance itself with the light and dark. When the jedi are too powerful and prominent for too long, the force creates someone like anakin to balance the dark with the light. When the jedi (light side) became more prominent again, the force threw in Kylo and Snoke to balance that out.
Rey was created to be Kylo’s match. That was even perfectly demonstrated with the lightsaber tug-of-war. They were perfectly even. Kylo is a skywalker and he is powerful. Rey is so powerful because she needs to be to match him. It gives a great explanation of the force that’s been needed for a long time and it fits in with the movie lore.
So yeah, she’s the “cliche chosen one”, but Star Wars always had and will always have that. The force will always have a “chosen one” might as well make them the protagonist.
@K1l, You're right on most of your points. I like the explanation of why Rey would be so powerful. However, when the force created Anakin to defeat the jedi, he still had to go through training. It wasn't like he was perfect at everything instantly, which is what a Mary Sue would be.
When he fought count dooku in the second movie, he lost. When the third episode had them rematch at the beginning of the movie, Anakin took on Dooku solo. That communicated huge improvement.
I admit, while on Jakku, Rey could train with her stick. But a stick is not a lightsaber. Kylo had trained for his entire life.
Snokes guards nearly took down Kylo. But not Rey apparently. Rey has all the Jedi abilities without training. And as seen with Anakin, AS SEEN WITH LUKE, WHO IS CANON THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI, both still had to go through training.
@Tentastic, Rey’s had virtually the same amount of training as luke at this point. Luke was able to do things like the force pull in the wampa cave without training, but it was because it was a life or death situation. It was the same with Rey when she had to fight Kylo. The force came out because she needed it to survive.
Also keep in mind that when she first faught Kylo, he was already really physically damaged. Kylo had been shot in the stomach minutes before by chewies bowcaster, which was established as really powerful esrlier in the film. He had also just faught finn who sliced his shoulder with a lightsaber. On top of that, he wasn’t even trying to kill her. Watch their first duel on youtube, she was really sloppy and only had a chance because she caught kylo off guard after he was already pretty beaten up. Before that, he was winning the fight pretty easily.
Also, when they faught the guards, Rey took on like one at a time, while Kylo took on 3 at once.
why can’t Rey be the new most powerful? I don’t see why not. It’s not like they said Luke was the only one to be that powerful. There have been more powerful force users before him, why can’t there be more powerful ones after him?
Besides, it’s not like Rey is the only one like this. Like I said, she’s Kylo’s match, meaning he is just as powerful has her.
Lastly, Luke had the same abilities without training. He could sense people and he could use the force before Yoda taught him anything.
And before him, Anakin used the force when he was 10. In the phantom menace he was the best podracer and ony human to do it. He also blew up a trade federation ship his first time flying in space. It is implied he was using the force for those things, just subconsciously
@K1l, true, I didn't see Kylo v Rey that way. Again Rey did have some training with her staff, so there might be some parallels.
As for Anakin, winning his first time in space was comedy and luck like R1, but it didn't detract from the film too much since he wasnt a do everything- the ship was flying on autopilot. And instead of him having use of force abilities, the force manifested in him via talent and cognition, kind of like how Leah connected with Luke at the end of ESB. Not Jedi mind tricks or force grip.
As for luke, he had minimal training with obi wan, and possibly trained more between EST and ANH.
I mean there were so many possible routes Rey could have gained force abilities from- again like the manifestation of a force ghost in her or when she got a glimpse into Kylo Rens mind- seeing his training and connecting them in TLJ.
But the movie doesn't question her abilities. She never says "why do I have all these powers I don't understand". It's just "because she's Rey."
@K1l, Imagine in Harry Potter if there was a student that arrived and could suddenly do everything. Cast every spell. Training not needed. Did they work hard like Hermione and learn spells themselves? No they didn't. That's Rey.
Harry might have been the chosen one, but he wasn't perfect at magic. He was just another student with a destiny, which is what made his character relatable. Yes he had connection to Voldemort, but explanations were given always. And if the explanations weren't given immediatelly like "why did Harry live?" The questions kept being brought up in the books until they were answered.
Harry was special in the way that he got his Scar and his knack for flying. But those are his only two talents. Other than that he's just another kid.
Rey is a pilot, force user, good shot, lightsaber weilder, multilingual, you name it Rey already has that ability without any training. That isn't what a hero is.
That's what a Mary Sue is.
@K1l, Oh and don't forget about weaknesses.
What weakness did Harry Potter have? His desire to play hero and save everyone, hot headed wanting to go prove himself which got his friends in trouble, his godfather killed, and others hurt.
Anakin? His ego, his highly inflated self esteem that made him think that he was above everyone else.
Luke? His loyalty and hardheadedness.
All hero's have a Hubris. Rey doesn't have any. She never makes a choice that goes off poorly. And if she had a weakness- like belief in her family coming back, that's ended quickly and she moves on. She has no character flaws
@Tentastic, actually Rey says almost that exact line.
When she speaks to Luke, he asks why she’s there. When she tells him the resistance sent her, he asked again why SHE specifically was there. She said something along the lines of “there’s something inside of me that’s always been their. It’s awake and I don’t know what it is. Im afraid.”
And she isn’t a mary sue. Mary sue’s are extremely rare and have to be intentionally written that way. Rey, while seemingly perfect at face value has several character flaws
-she refuses to let go of her past. She waited years for her parents to come back despite that she knew they weren’t coming back.
-she’s incredibly naive.
-she’s not all that bright. For example, when luke told her to reach out she actually reached out. Though this can be brushed off as comic relief, it is apart of her character that she isn’t all too bright.
-she trusts way too easily. She believes almost everything she’s told and she was way too quick to trust kylo
@K1l, But the argument still remains that she never received any proper training, on screen or otherwise, (with an exception being a Y-Wing simulation mentioned in the novelization of TFA) but yet she's good at everything for no apparent reason and everyone in-universe just seems to be okay with it. Also, almost every single main character likes her. Hardly anyone, with maybe Kylo being the exception, has an issue with her. They had the potential to explain why she was so powerful, but they never did and never bothered to ever bring up that question at any point in the film. Those are very common traits in a Mary Sue/Lary Stue.
As for her line about something inside of her waking up, that still doesn't explain how she became proficient with the force without ever being taught. It doesn't explain how Rey, after spending a day or two with Luke on an island with very little force training going on, is able to effortlessly lift a small avalanche worth of boulders while Luke, (continued)
@K1l, After spending several days training under Yoda, the former Jedi Grand Master himself, in the ways of the force and learning how to use it and hone his skills, struggled and failed to lift an X-Wing out of a swamp. And before you say that there is a possible weight difference, remember Yoda's line "Size matters not."
@Agent New Mexico,
They did explain how she is so powerful. In my comments above, I explained that the force always tries to balance itself. During this time, it chose Rey and Kylo to be the biggest force users and equals. Rey is as powerful as she is because she was the one who would be Kylo’s equal. Snoke pretty much directly explained this in TLJ
Also, her powers were heightened quicker because of something that happened to her that never happened to Luke - someone used the force on her first, specifically on her mind. Kylo tried to get into her head to find Luke’s map, he unintentionally triggered the force in her. Luke never had that. He had to be taught how to awaken the force in himsef, Kylo accidentally did it for her. After that, she just had to learn to control it, like Luke did. That’s why she is able to stuff so much quicker than Luke was. Luke was told that the force exists and then he had to figure out how to bring it out of him. Kylo basically flipped an “on” switch
@K1l, But you still have the problem Tentastic brought up. They just went down the route of "she's the chosen one". Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with that type of character, however make them work for it. The way it sounds is "This Kylo guy is pretty strong with the dark side after years of training. Here, have an automatically OP light side user that hasn't done a thing all her life except scavenge for parts." It's broken and it's lazy writing. As for the second point, in the words of Han, "That's not how the Force works." If it is, then maybe they could have explained it that way. But they didn't, that's all speculation as to why she's able to use the Force easily. I would've taken that explanation, but instead we got nothing except for, "Well, she's the chosen one and she's automatically good at everything and loved by everyone because Kylo devoted his life to getting strong and he is strong. You know? Balance and what not."
@Agent New Mexico, No, they did explain it. They may have not explicitly said “rey gets her power from this”. They showed it and it is very strongly implied. It’s as explicit as it can get without them directly explaining it in words. It isn’t speculation, it’s how they explained it 100%
It’s not lazy writing, it’s a new, interesting take on how the force works. You can dislike it, but it isn’t lazy.
We got plenty of explanation, you just don’t want to see it, even when im literally spelling it out for you.
@K1l, I'm not refusing to believe anything. As a matter of fact, I want full believe that one was given. Tell me, then, how did they show it? I'm genuinely curious.
@Agent New Mexico, the scene where Kylo sparked Rey’s force abilities. I already explained it above. Kylo went into her mind trying to find Luke’s map but he accidentally triggered her force powers. Before that point, Rey didn’t really have any signs of being a jedi, after Kylo did the thing to her, she realized there was something in her and was able to start using force abilities. That’s pretty clear to me. He had “awoken” the force in her hence the name of the film.
And then they elaborated specifically on how she was so powerful in TLJ by explaining in one of snokes lines that “the dark rises and the light to meet it”. The force decides your power for you. Rey was already to be the “chosen one” before she was even close to using force powers. Her strength was always there and what kylo did unleashed it. Now, she just needs to work on controlling it, which luke taught her.
@K1l, I guess that's plausible. But I still take issue with her being OP with a, as you put it, flip of a switch. Anakin was also the chosen one of his time, but he still had to work towards the power he reached, losing battles and limbs in the process. Rey, on the other hand, just had someone use the force on her and now she's suddenly good at everything. I don't know. I suppose I'll take that as an explanation, but I'm not happy about it. I personally just don't find characters who have awesome power just given to them without having to work for it interesting or well written. Well, thank you for entertaining this discussion.
Star wars fans make me ashamed of liking star wars
Okay, I’m just going to admit it. I liked TLJ. Now, I understand why a lot of people have issues with it. It jumps around too much. They kill off Snoke with no explanation of who he was, and there was no reason for the commander to not tell Poe what her plan was, among other things. However, I still like it, and I like it for one thing. It’s message was so quintessentially American and pertinent to today.
It’s message basically boils down to “it doesn’t matter who your parents were. It doesn’t matter where you come from. It doesn’t matter who should be next to save the universe. Anyone can be special. Anyone can help save the universe.”
I understand that it was a departure from the series’ usual style of epic narrative, and if you’re an old school fan why that might tick you off, but I really think that if they stick with the ideas presented in this movie the series can go to interesting and new places.
@Cujoe, what we’re saying is the new films could’ve presented those “ideas” much, much better. What we have is instead a lazy, series-milking, fan-fiction-inclusion excuse for an attempt to any quality.
@LegitAsian, Oh no, I get the criticism. I’m just saying that I’m a sucker for the theme of “get up and be somebody”.
@Cujoe, Here’s the difference I see in the original trilogy and the new new trilogy: Luke made himself a hero by taking action to be a part of the legacy he made today. Rey seems to get dragged along and just so happens is a part of this new legacy. I just prefer a more valid use of character development
At this point I see more people bitching about people bitching about the new movies than people bitching about the new movies. Can we go deeper?
Yeah, I've had the same damn thing sitting in pending for over a week... thanks again, Stuckpixel
Didnt the actor for young anakin go to prison
@The Local Anarchist, most likely yeah. It’s rare that a child actor doesn’t end up in jail once or twice
@The Local Anarchist, That guy has other issues. He has schizophrenia. Anakin role or no Anakin role, he was dealt a bad hand from the start.