I believe I’m a potato.
You’re delusional. Let’s treat you to see reality.
I believe I’m a girl.
Oh. OK. Here’s drugs and surgery to change your body to fit your worldview, erroneous as it may be.
We’re also gonna pressure disinterested 3rd parties to adopt your beliefs and call them intolerant if they don’t go out of their way to signal acquiescence.
@EatMyAss, that's hate speech! Off to a Hurt Feelings Tribunal with you, violent bigot!
@EatMyAss, *autistic screeching*
@EatMyAss, my thoughts on the whole, "I'm a woman in a mans body" or "I'm a man in a womans body" is very simple. If you don't shove it in my face, I don't really care. You feel disassociated from your natural gender, and you went to fix that. Maybe physically, maybe mentally. Why should I care? It doesn't affect me, so why would I het up in arms about it.
Tl:dr Don't care if it's not jammed in my face.
@Alyss Crowe, You deserve more upvotes
@Alyss Crowe, Ah, but I like it shoved in my face.
@EatMyAss, “my three year old son is playing with dolls, he must think he’s a girl”
Oh, Ok, we’ll pump him full of drugs and treat him for gender dysmorphia on the grounds that you’re his mum so clearly know best.
@EatMyAss, trying to live your life as a potato is infeasible and could be harmful, whereas living as the opposite gender is very feasible and is not harmful. The most important difference between what is and isn't a mental disorder is that a mental disorder is harmful. All being transgender requires (minimum. Many transgender people do go further) is to act like the other gender.
For anyone you see or meet on the sidewalk, at your place of work, or even in a bathroom, there is no practical difference between them being and not being transgender. You're not ordered to bow as they walk past, just maybe asked to use a different pronoun than you initially assumed.
@Nellybert , No doctor would give a child, especially one that young, such a life-changing treatment without the kid being so clearly transgender that you could tell from a state over. More, there's no way that would happen just from the mom asking for it.
My point is, you're fearmongering. The example you gave is ridiculous and doesn't reflect the reality of the situation of transgender people.
I might as well say, "'my three year old likes to play with army men, he mist want a gun!' Oh, OK, we'll go out to a gun store and but the kid a double-barreled shotgun on the grounds that you're his mum so clearly you know best"
@Depressed Panda, Thr suicide rate among those who transition says otherwise.
@EatMyAss, you should look into the reasoning behind that high rate. It's not as simple as "they transition, realize it's not what they wanted, and them off themselves because they can't handle it"
@EatMyAss, @I Are Lebo is right. Transgender people have a high rate of suicide because of discrimination and bullying, not because they're transgender.
@EatMyAss, once upon a time this world understood mental illness when we saw it, now those same I'll people seem to make the rules
@Depressed Panda, and when they ask me about pronouns I will laugh and be done with that conversation
and the blatant mental issues have no effect on their suicide rate obviously
@Depressed Panda, that is simply not true
@Depressed Panda, the only time in recorded human history when the suicide rate has been as high as modern days transgenders, is with Jews living under Nazi rule in Germany.
We're not rounding up trannies and sending them to forced labour camps, so the argument that the suicide rate is so high due to how society treats them does not hold up to scrutiny.
@Osama bin Dead, there is a transgender day of remembrance made solely to call attention to the number of transgendered people who are murdered for the sole crime of being trans, most frequently by lovers incensed at discovering their lover to not be what they thought they were.
Thankfully, trans issues have found their spot in the spotlight in the USA over the last four or five years, but not only have MANY trans people been cast out from their families, job, they've also been murdered.
The worst part is how many of them go almost entirely uninvestivated. If you look up the statistics for unsolved rape or murder of trans people in the USA from 1980 to 1999, you may just discover something horrible.
So to take the attitude that trans suicide rates are so high because of mental health issues alone is ignorance.
The largest reason for trans suicide is for people who are especially 'gifted' by puberty. Those who could not pass as the opposite gender no matter what surgeries taken.
@MrMoustache, he's only half right. The suffering trans people have most of is much more from friends and family than from strangers. The larger issue is the loss of hope from people who are convinced, whether accurately or not, that they will never be able to transition and thus never feel comfortable in their own body. The mentality is "I'd rather be dead and feel nothing than be stuck feeling like this any more".
There are only 2
@SeelenVerKaufer , always 2 there are
I'm a tube of Neosporin today. One of the tiny tubes.
@Doctor Krieger, I'm a HUUGEE tube. Like the biggest there is.
Yea that's right.
@A Math Dealer, that's okay, I'm a M4 Sherman tank tomorrow.
Ah, my man Shapiro
Lots of politicians pretend to be gay to get elected and a lot of politicians also pretend to be intolerant or racist depending on the demographics of the area they're running for
@EddySteady, that doesn’t make it okay lol
Being transgender and having gender dysphoria are not the same thing my dudes
@Monad Vairocana, one person thinks they are a different gender than they are, and the other.... Thinks... They are a different gender.. that.. they .. are('nt)?
@Medic135, gender is considered as a different construct from sex in psychology, with gender denoting societal norms that are connected to biological sex. Gender dysphoria can only be diagnosed if someone is experiencing significant distress/impairment in daily life due to not having their gender match their biological sex. Someone can be perfectly happy having a male gender and a female body, and would therefore not qualify for diagnosis.
@Monad Vairocana, you still haven't pointed out a difference, since they all experience some form of significant distress/impairment in life. Which is typical, when you have a significant psychosis such as one where you think you're a different gender/sex/species/adverb
@Medic135, no it's really not. Many men who choose to live a 'female life' are perfectly healthy. Though I do tend the disagree with the medical community in using gender dysphoria as an excuse for unnecessary, and sometimes harmful, cosmetic procedures; they should be counseled to accept that their sex and gender do not match up, in spite of societal norms. There is nothing wrong psychologically in a man just because he prefers to wear dresses.
@Monad Vairocana, I prefer a g string but I don't think I'm a lady.
Just a sexy sexy man.
@Medic135, that you are good fellow
@Medic135, "Gender dysphoria is not the same as gender nonconformity, which refers to behaviors not matching the gender norms or stereotypes of the gender assigned at birth. Examples of gender nonconformity (also referred to as gender expansiveness or gender creativity) include girls behaving and dressing in ways more socially expected of boys or occasional cross-dressing in adult men. Gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder." - American Psychiatric Association, if that helps.
Where I got that from, figured I might as well link it. It also includes the diagnostic criteria of gender dysphoria. The American Psychological Association also specifically states that transgenderism is not a mental disorder
@Blue Shirted Guy, I won't deny that is helpful, but the American psychiatric association states it is not a mental disorder due to influence rather than better judgement. If you wish for me to accept that gender is a social construct, then I want you to accept that societal norm influences what is "acceptable" (in this case being that you can be labeled as an all around awful human being for not embracing trans/etc people) so to avoid being condemned an organization will conform instead because it is easier
@Blue Shirted Guy, also, I'm just tossing this out there, you're not a dick and I like that about you
@Medic135, haha well thanks for giving me a chance. I would say that there is definitely societal pressure to conform, but in this case, it really just involves matching the definition of a mental illness. Not all trans people experience the severe distress that is required to be diagnosed with a mental illness, which is largely why it is not considered to be one. The ones that do experience distress and other symptoms that are listed in the DSM are most likely diagnosed with gender dysphoria.
I apologize, but after I sent that last response I realized I was initiating a conversation at 2AM, so I'm gonna have to come back here tomorrow. I can further address why I don't think these organizations are conforming, and we can go from there if you want to talk about any of the other 1,000 aspects of this. Like the suicide rate and all that fun stuff. Again, my bad on bailing, but definitely feel free to respond with whatever and I'll be back
@Blue Shirted Guy, no harm in bailing it's just a meaningless internet comment section, have a nice night
@Medic135, hey hey I'm back. So as I said, for something to be considered a mental illness, it has to be causing an individual significant distress. If these organizations are specifically saying that gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder, then that means that hundreds/thousands of psychiatrists and psychologists have met with these people and determined that gender nonconformity does not inherently cause this distress.
For them to be conforming, all of these professionals would be blatantly disregarding severe distress, which is incredibly inhumane. They would have met with transgenders, noted that they have distress, and then ignored it in order to avoid any backlash. While I can't argue that nobody would feel pressure to do this, I just can't possibly believe that the vast majority of professionals, who dedicate their lives to this work, would just belittle themselves for public perception. ESPECIALLY when it involves the mental health of humans and suicide prevention
@Blue Shirted Guy, it is incredibly inhumane to cater to a ridiculous idea rather than attempt to treat it you are correct
@Medic135, even if it was a ridiculous idea that is being catered to, which I disagree with, people often get "mental illness" and "ridiculous idea" mixed up. You can believe the concept of gender nonconformity to be ridiculous but not distressing enough to be a mental disorder, which I think is at least more rational than someone thinking that all transgenders have a mental disorder.
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness that is treated. However, not all transgenders are diagnosed with this. It seems like you are still under the belief that gender nonconformity is being catered to, and should be treated as a mental illness?
@Blue Shirted Guy, that would be correct, I am still under the belief that the idea of jumping genders is flat out ridiculous and people who attempt to do so are
A. Struggling with a serious problem and require help
B. Seeking attention and will go to extremes to gain it and need to be ignored excessively
@Medic135, well I guess we're just at a standstill haha. We can't really move on if you believe that the experts in the field are conforming and are lying about gender nonconformity not being a mental illness. You can see how I can't really argue against that stance, right? That pretty much throws out the usefulness of me providing any studies, articles, etc.
@Blue Shirted Guy, yeah I see where the stalemate comes in, BUT can you see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch ??
wow so accurate
I like that 8 ball